UKC

Hello,

Looking for a bit of advice.

I've got some flights to Argentina booked for Boxing Day.

For one reason and another one of the members of the trip can no longer make it but I've got another friend who is keen to take their place.

The flight cost in the region of £1000. I've just rang the airline to change the flight and have been informed that the flight is neither tranferable or refundable.

Is this legal? Ive changed both names and dates on other flights in the past.

Any help appreciated.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
Read the terms and conditions? It's legal if it says that in there.

Do you have travel insurance?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

It's the airline's call. In the fees-based economy, ticket flexibility is nowadays one of those things you have to pay extra for. Legally you have 24h after the purchase to get the ticket refunded regardless of the type of ticket. The cheapest tickets tend to be non-transferable or refundable. Which sucks, of course.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Yes, if it's in the T&C it's legal. But it does seem unreasonable as they will not be out of pocket.

Try ringing their customer services and plead with them, saying you are happy to pay an admin charge to change the name.

I was in a similar situation a few years ago and fortunately they agreed to do it, but they don't have to.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Any company want to keep customers happy. Especially big ones. Contact customer services and beg and if that doesn't work try on Twitter, the social media people seem to be slightly nicer than the customer service call handlers.

Good luck!

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Depends on the airline. Also, is the person who can't make the trip covered by any travel insurances?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

With out diving too deep into it. Airlines will help out/reduce tickets on compassionate grounds but this isn't to be exploited if your friend can't go because he just doesn't want to

In reply to Ban1:

If you look at Tom's original post he wants to transfer the flight to a new team member.

So an admin fee to change passenger name is not unreasonable, especially as the flight date is over two months away.


Looking at it another way, airlines know from experience that not 100% of flights sold are actually taken.
So they usually take a gamble and overbook.
A non refundable ticket is one way of getting the price down to customers knowing some will lose out.
Don't mention this, Tom, when you are sweet talking them into a transfer deal

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Basically, yes it's legal, each fare has set t+c's with regards to changes/refunds, and you took the risk by accepting one with those particular rules as everyone who books a ticket does who doesn't want to pay the much higher fares for ones they can change more easily.

the only circumstances you may get a refund from (and no you can't blag these, you need proof) are -

+ using a term in your travel insurance such as relating to illness or bereavement if it applies and they can provide adequate documentation.

+ similar terms within the fare which are most likely to be simply be an allowance for if an immediate family member has died.

+ if you weren't advised of the penalties for changing the flights at the time of booking and can prove it. If you booked online don't even bother checking, you'll have ticked saying you've read them. If you booked on the phone you may have a slim chance that you weren't told but best be sure because the calls will have been recorded and there'll most likely be notes put in the booking (not viewable to you) saying that they were read out and/or remarks entered which are on your confirmation which you will have been advised to read.

In reply to Scarab9:

Basically I'm going on a trip to Patagonia with a couple who have now split up...

Guess we're climbing as a two...

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
get on to their social media Tom, you of all people should be able to bring them round.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Or find someone whose willing to change their name to get on the flight!

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

For the sake of a £1,000 can't they just get back together for the trip?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Will they at least refund taxes and other fees? BA will. And that can be quite a chunk of the total charged for a flight. (Sorry this advice might not be much help).

In reply to BAdhoc:

In all seriousness does anyone know if this will work... Seems all at will cost is the cost of a new passport

A boy called polly might be interesting

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

well there was that chap who looked for someone with the same name as his ex so they could come with him on a round the world trip....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/18/man-find-woman-same-name-ex-gi...

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I've never had success with airlines about this sort of thing. Lost £700 when I couldn't fly to California a few years ago because the people I was going to travel with had split up and it was all a cluster f*ck.

Today I tried to move an indirect flight I stupidly mistakenly booked from London to San Francisco to a cheaper direct flight earlier in the day (march next year). Several hundred pounds in admin fees so I stuck with my 2hr layover in Minneapolis.

Good luck. But I honestly also think the best bet is a deed poll and new passport! http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jun/05/student-changes-name-by-deed-p...

In reply to abseil:


They should, since I believe these are charged against the actual physical flight (eg. they can't charge you passenger tax if you've cancelled the ticket and are no longer a passenger). For my business flights at work, we have to book non-refundable tickets (for short haul anyway) and whenever I've had to cancel it I've always been refunded the taxes and charges.

But as tough as it sounds, the airline are perfectly within their rights. A ticket was bought, with certain conditions which made it the price it was. It's tough, but its hardly unfair.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
Anyway, guess it's not your loss right? They'll have to pay not you?

And assuming they actually liked each other, can't they just go as friends? Two months away yet... (and if most other break-ups are anything to go by they'll probably sleep together and get back together/split up again a few more times between now and then anyway.)

In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

>> Today I tried to move an indirect flight I stupidly mistakenly booked from London to San Francisco to a cheaper direct flight earlier in the day (march next year). Several hundred pounds in admin fees so I stuck with my 2hr layover in Minneapolis.

Not too bad. Jump on a train to the Mall of America and spend some time on the indoor roller coaster

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Yes it is legal. Though it's unusual, most airlines wouldn't shy away from taking a nice hefty name change fee plus the difference in fare!

Is the flight full? If so perhaps, if they are willing to pay again, you could ask the airline if you could cancel for no refund (perhaps to "get the APD back[1]") and buy the freed-up seat.

[1] You are legally entitled to a refund of APD, but they are legally entitled to charge a fee for doing so, which usually, completely coincidentally of course, equals the full value of the APD.

Neil

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll/overview
Get new passport
Then change it back

Cost: £70.

In reply to JJL:

Sounds a good plan, but depends a little if other details have been given to the carrier. Often you have to provide DOB and passport number as well when booking to prevent confusion when passengers have the same name. But it's worth a try.

In reply to JJL:

And technically fraud, unless you change the name on everything else you have your name on for that period.

Neil

In reply to JayPee630:

I've never seen an airline booking where the passport number needed to be provided before check-in. After all, people lose/damage passports all the time.

Neil

In reply to Neil Williams:

I've had to do it, and then call the airline after I replaced my passport. Wasn't saying it was a definite, just to be wary that the solution might not be as simple.

Hope it works out for TRip, although guess it's the couple that have to cover and split the losses...?

Cheers for all the advise... apparently the tax is only worth £20

I've tried sending this gushing letter to their customer services... names have been changes to protect the innocent... I'm not holding out too much hope though.

Dear Sir,

I am writing to explain the situation further and beg you to reconsider.

We are flying to Argentina to take part in a mountaineering expedition, where we will attempt to scale previously unclimbed peaks. The expedition has been endorsed the British Mountaineering Council (the representative body for climbing and mountaineering in the UK) and the Mount Everest Foundation.

Climbing in Patagonia is not without risk and there are no rescue services in the region. For this reason we have chosen to climb as a three, in case of mishap. Unfortunately Gill is no longer able to take part in the expedition. Her Grandmother, who she was very close to, died last month and she doesn’t feel ready to take part in mountaineering yet.

Jim and I are not prepared to climb in Patagonia as a pair. In lay terms this would be comparable with turning up to play football with only ten men. Fortunately our friend Bob is available and wishes to join our expedition. Please can you transfer Gill’s flight into his name? I understand there is substantial administration involved in changing a name. Please let me know the costs involved and I will ring to make payment.

I know that changing the name on the flight goes against Travelup’s terms and conditions, but without a third climber our expedition, which have spent the last year planning, will collapse and our trip will be over. I beg you to reconsider and to bend the rules just this once.

Thank you for talking the time to read this. Have a great weekend.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Try putting a link to your blog in there too maybe? Also, I assume you're bullshitting them with the dead relative? Good luck!

In reply to JayPee630:

I'm not as it happens... I may be embellishing the closeness of their relationship...

Good idea re the blog. Thanks

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Did her gran really die last month?

I tried recent bereavement once with an Easyjet cancellation. I my case it was true but before agreeing to the refund Easyjet asked me to send a copy of the death certificate to them. Once they had seen it they refunded me immediately with their condolences.

I think most airlines will require proof of death eg death certificate because it's such an obvious and common reason given that they are wise to it.

In reply to Trangia:


Yes

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
Good luck then. If they are like Easyjet were with me once I'd sent the death certificate you shouldn't have a problem.

If the airline won't play ball, try Gill's travel insurance. Death of a close relative resulting in curtailment of the holiday is often one of the items covered.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Lets hope an airline rep isn't a mad keen climber and looks at UKC - otherwise this thread might expose your ruse (and expose you to possible complications).
Hope not. Common sense ought to be brought to bear, surely?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Travelup appears to be a third-party agent. Have you tried approaching the actual airline? Probably won't get anywhere but worth a go.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: did you book the flight with a credit card? You often get travel insurance thrown in for free. Worth checking

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Changing name has been done before....

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jun/05/student-changes-name-by-deed-p...

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


'In lay terms this would be comparable with turning up to play football with only ten players' - might be better. You never know who'll read it.

In reply to JJL:

And then have to include the other names that you have been known as on every visa, background check, passport application for the rest of your life... Not worth it.

LD

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
My flight to NZ is non refundable non transferable. Seems to be the way with cheap long haul flights

In reply to Neil Williams:


It's a problem when booking with third party agents. I've never actually committed to using an agent because you can usually get the same tickets direct from the airline for a few pounds more with less restrictive T&Cs.

In reply to Bob Hughes:



I doubt that ICBA to go is covered by any insurance.

In reply to timjones:

Change the name by depoll as suggested above.

70 to change , 100 for a new passport, 70 to change back if they don't like it.

If nothing else, its a great first paragraph of a trip report

In reply to Lurking Dave:



Course its worth it. It'd be even better if they didn't change it back!

In reply to snoop6060:
Deed poll is free.

“I [old name] of [your address] have given up my name [old name] and have adopted for all purposes the name [new name].

Signed as a deed on [date] as [old name] and [new name] in the presence of [witness 1 name] of [witness 1 address], and [witness 2 name] of [witness 2 address].

[your new signature], [your old signature]

[witness 1 signature], [witness 2 signature]”

In reply to marsbar et al

but you cant change your DoB.

In the previous case the student changed their own name not the person using the ticket. Non transferable i would interpret to mean not between people. So you could change your name to match the ticket and still be refused as you are not the person it was sold to. Obv if they have non of those details (dob, passport number, gender etc) then they probbaly wont be able to tell !

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Just tell your mate to buy a ticket to join you so the trip goes ahead. (assuming he would have reimbursed girl had the name change been allowed).

I know it sounds harsh, but it's her problem to get a refund, not yours to get a name change

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Presumably the mate is being offered the ticket at a discounted price.

In reply to The New NickB:

Come on, let's hear how this blag is going!

In reply to JayPee630:


Don't cry for me. Argentina.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


Yes. As well as economy/business/first there are also Booking classes. They specify the rules on changing. A normal retail ticket is usually changeable with a reputable airline, but travel agents usually get you on bargains that have rules.

You can probably move the date on the ticket for a fee, but you probably can't change the name. Next time you'll probably check more details at the time of booking - it's a hard lesson to learn.

In reply to Philip:
To be fair, the main reason for barring name changes or charging hefty fees isn't so much the airline's benefit. It's because they want to stop touting of airline tickets being as bad as that of gig tickets. Imagine an agency buying up all the Ryanair penny specials and flogging them for a hundred quid later...

No comfort to the OP of course but it might help to understand why.

In reply to Neil Williams:

I'm not sure that's correct. Lufthansa would change the date on my P-class business class flights to India (£2500 return) for a few hundred, but not the name for any fee - even one greater than the difference between a fixed and flexible ticket.

In reply to Philip:

That will be to make businesses buy the flexible one to start with.

In reply to Neil Williams:

It's also an anti-fraud measure. Fraudsters book tickets with made up names and then change the name when they've found a taker for the ticket.

In reply to Neil Williams:
Wouldn't this be solvable by the airline offering a buy back to exchange service? In other words person X buys ticket for £x, person X then cannot go so wants to pass the ticket to person Y.

The airline buys the ticket from person X for £(x-a) where 'a' is a reasonable transfer fee. The airline then reissues the ticket to person Y for a price of £(x+a). The airline makes £(2a) more than it would have by leaving the ticket with person X, person X gets rid of the ticket they can't use, person Y gets a cheaper ticket than buying new. Everyone's a winner.

I have always thought this should be how gig tickets work. Only possible to buy them from the official vendor. If you can't go, you sell it back to them.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Yes, that was my point.

In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

What is in it for the airline?

Ld

In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

Its also more usually solved by taking out travel insurance. Person A can't go so they claim. Person B buys a ticket.

In reply to Lurking Dave:



Duh, money!

In reply to Lurking Dave:
- wasted time (and money) spent explaining to customers over the phone that they can't change their tickets becomes time changing tickets (which incurs various fees ... see next point).
- the process incurs two fees which they keep. £(2a) as described. So the cost in point 1 disappears and a gain is achieved.
- as Ryanair found out... customer opinion means a lot. Positive customer feedback is valuable.
- it will encourage people to book with that airline if they aren't sure who will be going or similar.

Top of my head.

In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

That's also how the Rugby World Cup and Olympics worked. There's also Ticketmaster's official resale site which I have used successfully, both buying and selling, a few times.

To avoid touting many airlines will allow a name change but at a fee plus difference in fare to a ticket sold today. I think that is fair, rather than simply no changes, as it means no benefit is gained from touting but the ticket value is not totally lost.

In reply to Orgsm:


Not as much as over booking the flight and relying on a percentage of people not turning up.

In reply to Orgsm:

As Nick said - they already have the money, why would they go through a complex process to give that money back?

Besides the people that are booking restricted tickets are the least profitable customer segment, airlines are not going to go out of their way to service them more than they have to.

Cheers
LD (frequent flyer

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Are you going to update us on the outcome?

In reply to Trangia:

Bad news... my blagging has failed me. Travel - up are not prepared to be in anyway flexible. Fair play to them for sticking to their guns.

Anyway Polly/Gill has decided to come.

Should be fun...