UKC

Belay with munter?

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
mumrikken 23 Oct 2015
Hi,

I have taken a belay course and have now started top rope climbing. At the course they only taught us how to belay using a munter knot, but I have noticed that everyone else (including my climbing partner) uses a belay device and the technique is different. Of course that is not a problem, but I find belaying using a munter very hard on my right hand (I am right handed) and I sometimes don't feel too secure or strong belaying because my arm gets tired and weak quickly from holding the rope upwards all the time. When my partner falls or is taking, my arm starts shaking and I end up holding both parts of the rope together with both my hands to prevent the braking side of the rope from slowly sliding through my fingers (due to insufficient strenght? that is how it feels like).
Is this how it always feels with this way of belaying, or does anyone have any advice on how to stay safe with this method, or should I switch to a belay device (and should I take another course for that or I might be fine?)
I am new to climbing so appreciate any advice that you might give me!

Thanks
 jkarran 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

Switching to a belay device is probably a good idea though there's nothing wrong with a Munter Hitch, it's something all climbers should know as a get you out of trouble option.

You can lock off the Munter a bit harder while your partner sits on the rope by taking the dead rope (which you're holding up) around the back of the (tight) live rope then pull it down more comfortably toward you. Gives you more friction and a more comfortable position to hold the rope in. Alternatively you can quite easily tie it off (look it up, I'd mess up the description). Try it in a safe environment first.

jk
 Durbs 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

Disappointed this topic isn't about climbing with unattractive partners...
 Cerris90 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

I can't believe you went on a course an they didn't show you how to use a belay device. Seems daft to me that they would teach what is in essence a back up technique for getting yourself out of a situation. An not teach you to use a belay device which is common practice.
 radddogg 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

If you want to belay with confidence and without tiring yourself out check out the Edelrid Mega Jul
 climbwhenready 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

What centre did a belay course where they only showed you a munter? It's a bit odd.

Nothing wrong with a munter, but it's much more convenient to use a device. Your bog-standard device is the BD ATC/Petzl Reverso/DMM Bug type. Very different belaying action, but it would be a shame to pay for someone to show you how to use it. Maybe you could get your mate to show you?
 GridNorth 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

Not in the UK I suspect?

Al
 SenzuBean 23 Oct 2015
In reply to climbwhenready:

Not odd apparently.

Page 94 of 'Rock Climbing' [Libby Peters]: " [Italian hitch] is a versatile friction hitch that can be used in place of a belay device for belaying, lowering and abseiling. It is simple to operate, so is often a good choice for novices to use, but it can kink the rope."
 climbwhenready 23 Oct 2015
In reply to SenzuBean:

Of course you can belay with a munter hitch, the odd thing is teaching it to the exclusion of everything else. Where, in this case, "everything else" is what everyone else is doing (see the OP).
 wbo 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken: Well it's a very helpful thing to know so it doesn't hurt to learn to use it at 'an early age'. It's a bit odd as it makes the instructors life a bit busier but not a bad thing.

Where was this?

 beardy mike 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

Are you belaying somebody ,much larger than you? If you are then it may be worth looking at an assisted braking belay plate - there are lots of these around. The only thing to be aware is that a) some are better than others b) you leader needs to make sure they place solid gear as transmitted impact is higher during a fall. For various reasons I use a Climbing technology Alpine up, although I'd say this isn't a particularly beginner friendly plate. However if yo are using a single rope, look at the click up which is a simpler version and IMO the best of the assisted braking devices (including the grigri, and it handles in a very similar way to a standard tuber so it can get you into using a standard tuber quite safely. It does require reading the instructions and learning how to use it, bu this is pretty quick and easy to do - just practice with your leader near the ground!
 jimtitt 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

You don´t need to keep your braking hand up all the time, or ever in fact. that was the old method taught here in Germany but hand down has been the standard for maybe fifteen years now as it´s identical to using an ATC and works just as well. It is one of the advantages of the Italian Hitch over other devices that both methods are acceptable.
Here´s a Video of both methods AND what not to do;- http://www.klettern.de/besser-klettern/sicherheit/richtig-sichern.578944.5....
 nniff 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

As Jim says, there's no need to hold your hand up. Hold it down in a strong position and it'll be fine. The hand up thing is much the same as people insisting that you have your hand reversed and waving around somewhere behind your back when you're abseiling - obsolete.

That said, a belay device is a better option, if you have one
 SenzuBean 23 Oct 2015
In reply to climbwhenready:
> Of course you can belay with a munter hitch, the odd thing is teaching it to the exclusion of everything else. Where, in this case, "everything else" is what everyone else is doing (see the OP).

My comment was that it's _not_ actually odd to teach it to the exclusion of everything else. It's fairly common to teach beginners to operate a Munter, although this usually happens on "taster" courses (where you'll teach it as "bell-ringing", to involve other people) as opposed to more development focused courses. This was covered during my SPA training course too.
Post edited at 15:24
1
 climbwhenready 23 Oct 2015
In reply to SenzuBean:

It depends what the OP actually went on, but he describes it as a "belaying course." If you go on a taster course, you can do anything - even fun climbing on autobelays. If you're expecting to become a safe climber (which is the point of a belaying/beginners course), I think only teaching the Munter hitch is odd.
 faffergotgunz 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

Ure sick bruv! Lol woteva gets u off innit!!

Went MUNTUNG 1nce down in da endz bruv. My peepz told me to be da munt. I lickd dat shit wen day stomped on it and it was dark bruv. Chunder evryware!!! Naa man munting on a climb, u sick u get me!!

Kind regards dear fellow.
4
mumrikken 23 Oct 2015
Hey all, thanks for the comments,

it was indeed in Germany that I took the belay course,
thanks for the link to that video Jim.
I am belaying someone heavier than me, but I wouldn't say much heavier.
I also agree that considering that the standard today is to use a belay device, that it could have been taught at the course. But I will get my climbing partner to show me.
miho 23 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

At least in the Elbe Sandstone area in Germany it is still very common to belay on a Munter hitch. You might also see other even more old-school practices which I would not recommend.
Having got into climbing there I only started using a belay device when using double ropes in alpine or ice climbing where the Munter is rather impractical. I have an american climbing book which IIRC gives the braking power of a Munter hitch in the hands down position as 175% and 125 in the hands up position due to increased friction round the biner. Apparently sufficient braking can be achieved by both.
 bpmclimb 24 Oct 2015
In reply to jimtitt:

> hand down has been the standard for maybe fifteen years now as it£s identical to using an ATC and works just as well.

I notice that the belayer in the first video on your link is keeping his left hand up on the live rope while sliding his hand up the dead rope, with the hand down position. Looks far from ideal to me. Only in the clip showing the hand up position does he bring his left hand across to the dead rope.
 bpmclimb 24 Oct 2015
In reply to miho:

> the braking power of a Munter hitch in the hands down position as 175% and 125 in the hands up position due to increased friction round the biner.

Other way round, surely? There's an extra half-turn round the crab in the hands up position.

miho 25 Oct 2015
In reply to bpmclimb:

Yes, you are correct. I had my mental image of the knot wrong.
 3leggeddog 25 Oct 2015
In reply to mumrikken:

The hitch in belaying a munter is that he/she is not very pleasing to stare at.

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...