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Sunday 25th Oct - arrived at 10.30am, couldn't park due to coach in bay. I asked the driver if he was going to be moving and he said no. When I grumbled he pointed out he'd brought 50 people, his implication being (I assume) that if he hadn't their cars would have been parked there instead, which is a fair point. So I parked up in the plantation and walked in to meet my already present friends at the popular end. While I was fuming on the walk in it occurred to me that as the driver was staying there with his coach, and not joining his uni charges on the crag, he could have driven his vehicle to another less intrusive parking spot and picked his passengers up later. Am I just being a grumpy old man?
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In reply to EarlyBird:
Presumably he just whacked it across about 6 cars worth of spaces? Seems pretty unreasonable to just sit there waiting when he could, as you say, move somewhere less busy. I would be pretty grumpy too.
Presumably he just whacked it across about 6 cars worth of spaces? Seems pretty unreasonable to just sit there waiting when he could, as you say, move somewhere less busy. I would be pretty grumpy too.
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In reply to EarlyBird:
Possibly, but that doesn't mean you're wrong. ;O)
> Am I just being a grumpy old man?
Possibly, but that doesn't mean you're wrong. ;O)
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In reply to EarlyBird:
It was absolutely rammed on Sunday. If he hadn't been parked there the six spaces would have been long gone anyway by 10.30.
He shouldn't have parked there, but sadly it wouldn't have changed your outcome.
What I found much more annoying was the amount of people parking on the grass verges around the plantation car park and toilet block, even though there is new signage all along the verge requesting people not to.
It was absolutely rammed on Sunday. If he hadn't been parked there the six spaces would have been long gone anyway by 10.30.
He shouldn't have parked there, but sadly it wouldn't have changed your outcome.
What I found much more annoying was the amount of people parking on the grass verges around the plantation car park and toilet block, even though there is new signage all along the verge requesting people not to.
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In reply to deacondeacon: It's hard to feel any sympathy with any person visiting Stanage on a warm weekend at the beginning of the university year. Students have no imagination, obviously, but the rest of us should try a little harder.
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In reply to EarlyBird:
The driver didn't actually stay there with the coach the whole day, he went walking with his son. If it makes you feel any better.
The driver didn't actually stay there with the coach the whole day, he went walking with his son. If it makes you feel any better.
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In reply to BabyGoat:
There was a child involved in this enterprise? Clearly a safeguarding matter.
> The driver didn't actually stay there with the coach the whole day, he went walking with his son. If it makes you feel any better.
There was a child involved in this enterprise? Clearly a safeguarding matter.
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In reply to EarlyBird:
You could have suggested he take his son on a drive around the Peak pretending to be Big William off the Italian Job !!!
You could have suggested he take his son on a drive around the Peak pretending to be Big William off the Italian Job !!!
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In reply to EarlyBird:
Jeez, you *wanted* to go climbing at the same crag as 50 students??
I've not been to the Peak for some time. I assume there are no other crags there worth climbing on; is that the problem?
jcm
Jeez, you *wanted* to go climbing at the same crag as 50 students??
I've not been to the Peak for some time. I assume there are no other crags there worth climbing on; is that the problem?
jcm
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In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Hi John, the BMC drafted up a whole bunch of guidelines for groups to try an minimise their impact. Stanage has a wide base of users and this kind of ignorant behaviour by groups puts us climbers in a bad light. The parking on Sunday was shocking with signs ignored and the road badly congested to the point of being a hazard for cyclists.
Hi John, the BMC drafted up a whole bunch of guidelines for groups to try an minimise their impact. Stanage has a wide base of users and this kind of ignorant behaviour by groups puts us climbers in a bad light. The parking on Sunday was shocking with signs ignored and the road badly congested to the point of being a hazard for cyclists.
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In reply to EarlyBird:
How on earth did you get beaten to the crag by a bunch of students ? EarlyBird my arse
How on earth did you get beaten to the crag by a bunch of students ? EarlyBird my arse
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In reply to muppetfilter:
What part of the behaviour was ignorant? If you have 50 people, going to a 5 mile-long crag in th emost efficient transport possible seems quite sensible to me!
> Hi John, the BMC drafted up a whole bunch of guidelines for groups to try an minimise their impact. Stanage has a wide base of users and this kind of ignorant behaviour by groups puts us climbers in a bad light. The parking on Sunday was shocking with signs ignored and the road badly congested to the point of being a hazard for cyclists.
What part of the behaviour was ignorant? If you have 50 people, going to a 5 mile-long crag in th emost efficient transport possible seems quite sensible to me!
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In reply to JJL:
People like to hate on large groups and will find any excuse to do so?
> What part of the behaviour was ignorant? If you have 50 people, going to a 5 mile-long crag in th emost efficient transport possible seems quite sensible to me!
People like to hate on large groups and will find any excuse to do so?
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In reply to muppetfilter:
Care to clarify this point?
The parking on Sunday was shocking with signs ignored and the road badly congested to the point of being a hazard for cyclists.
And this was all caused by 1 coach was it?
> Hi John, the BMC drafted up a whole bunch of guidelines for groups to try an minimise their impact. Stanage has a wide base of users and this kind of ignorant behaviour by groups puts us climbers in a bad light.
Care to clarify this point?
The parking on Sunday was shocking with signs ignored and the road badly congested to the point of being a hazard for cyclists.
And this was all caused by 1 coach was it?
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In reply to Goucho:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Download.aspx?id=350
Here you go, the nice folks at the BMC have put a brochure together pointing out things like : group size , respect for others , parking , erosion ...
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Download.aspx?id=350
Here you go, the nice folks at the BMC have put a brochure together pointing out things like : group size , respect for others , parking , erosion ...
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In reply to muppetfilter:
"Investigate car share through friends, clubs or web sites. If there are more than a couple of car loads, consider hiring a mini bus or organising a coach."
> Here you go, the nice folks at the BMC have put a brochure together pointing out things like : group size , respect for others , parking , erosion ...
"Investigate car share through friends, clubs or web sites. If there are more than a couple of car loads, consider hiring a mini bus or organising a coach."
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In reply to muppetfilter:
I could be wrong, but I reckon the issues the BMC covers, are far more likely to be a result of the tens of thousands of 'proper' climbers visiting the same areas of Stanage each year, rather than a couple of 50 seat coaches of Uni students a couple of times a year?
"Hey, all the routes are rammed at Stanage Popular, all the holds are polished, there are cars parked all over the verges, and look at all the erosion on the paths and below the routes.
I know, let's blame it all on Uni groups, even -though they only account for less than 2% of visits!"
> Here you go, the nice folks at the BMC have put a brochure together pointing out things like : group size , respect for others , parking , erosion ...
I could be wrong, but I reckon the issues the BMC covers, are far more likely to be a result of the tens of thousands of 'proper' climbers visiting the same areas of Stanage each year, rather than a couple of 50 seat coaches of Uni students a couple of times a year?
"Hey, all the routes are rammed at Stanage Popular, all the holds are polished, there are cars parked all over the verges, and look at all the erosion on the paths and below the routes.
I know, let's blame it all on Uni groups, even -though they only account for less than 2% of visits!"
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In reply to EarlyBird:
Was it beyond the organisational skills of the team to get the bus to go park on the verge up near Apparent North and phone him when they were heading back down? Better views up there too.
Chris
Was it beyond the organisational skills of the team to get the bus to go park on the verge up near Apparent North and phone him when they were heading back down? Better views up there too.
Chris
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In reply to Chris Craggs:
What and sent the model aircraft flying fraternity blogs crazy with complaints?
What and sent the model aircraft flying fraternity blogs crazy with complaints?
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In reply to Chris Craggs:
Equally, why didn't the car drivers complaining about the presence of the bus park there? So the 'walk in' is slightly longer? So what?
The original complaint here seems daft - it's just a 'me first' reaction.
Equally, why didn't the car drivers complaining about the presence of the bus park there? So the 'walk in' is slightly longer? So what?
The original complaint here seems daft - it's just a 'me first' reaction.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Would there then have been a thread on a model aircraft forum somewhere, moaning about some selfish bugger in a bus taking up half a dozen of the parking spaces next to their flying field on a busy day?
At least at the Pop End there's an honesty box that the uni group will have popped a few quid in, no doubt, towards the upkeep of the estate. ;O)
Would there then have been a thread on a model aircraft forum somewhere, moaning about some selfish bugger in a bus taking up half a dozen of the parking spaces next to their flying field on a busy day?
At least at the Pop End there's an honesty box that the uni group will have popped a few quid in, no doubt, towards the upkeep of the estate. ;O)
In reply to Rob Parsons:
That's exactly what the OP did do. (Well, Plantation rather than Apparent North, but y'know.)
You're not wrong, but it does strike me as a perfectly valid question to wonder whether the coach driver ought to have dropped the group off then parked elsewhere. Trouble is on a day like that he'd probably have had to go beyond Hathersage or all the way back into Sheff before there wasn't somebody moaning about it. (And on such a day, with countless folks parking and driving their cars like utter nobs, the effort involved in manoeuvring a coach around the place may not be trivial.)
Of course that does also beg the question whether it's good practice to take such a large group to such an obvious 'honeypot' crag on a busy day, but that one's been done to death on here often enough.
That's exactly what the OP did do. (Well, Plantation rather than Apparent North, but y'know.)
You're not wrong, but it does strike me as a perfectly valid question to wonder whether the coach driver ought to have dropped the group off then parked elsewhere. Trouble is on a day like that he'd probably have had to go beyond Hathersage or all the way back into Sheff before there wasn't somebody moaning about it. (And on such a day, with countless folks parking and driving their cars like utter nobs, the effort involved in manoeuvring a coach around the place may not be trivial.)
Of course that does also beg the question whether it's good practice to take such a large group to such an obvious 'honeypot' crag on a busy day, but that one's been done to death on here often enough.
Post edited at 10:05
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In reply to deepsoup:
Yes, all true.
We might as well start asking: were all the cars which were parked there full of people when they arrived? Or had some people selfishly (!) driven a car carrying, say, only two people?
Fact of business is: that's a busy crag. My own approach when confronted by situations like that is to think 'f*cking stroll on ...' - there are other places to climb.
Yes, all true.
We might as well start asking: were all the cars which were parked there full of people when they arrived? Or had some people selfishly (!) driven a car carrying, say, only two people?
Fact of business is: that's a busy crag. My own approach when confronted by situations like that is to think 'f*cking stroll on ...' - there are other places to climb.
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In reply to Rob Parsons:
As a Peak area guidebook worker, access worker and regular attendee at BMC area meets I have no issue with this bus. Sure it could go elsewhere but so could a lot of cars with ones and twos...(how many of us meet up and drive in with a full car to save spaces on a busy day). The driver and his group may not be aware of suitable locations and a more efficient use of space for the numbers on the crag is hard to beat. I would object to it parking at apparent north as that space is smaller and is it is used a lot by various groups including by climbers and boulderers.
As a Peak area guidebook worker, access worker and regular attendee at BMC area meets I have no issue with this bus. Sure it could go elsewhere but so could a lot of cars with ones and twos...(how many of us meet up and drive in with a full car to save spaces on a busy day). The driver and his group may not be aware of suitable locations and a more efficient use of space for the numbers on the crag is hard to beat. I would object to it parking at apparent north as that space is smaller and is it is used a lot by various groups including by climbers and boulderers.
Post edited at 10:55
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In reply to deepsoup:
Also the cost of fuel. Say he gets 4 or 5 mpg on those sorts of roads (reasonable coach mpg?). Even if he only had to move a few miles to park, he could easily be spending the best part of a tenner which he wouldn't be getting back from the group. Would anybody here spend that just to make parking more convenient for someone else?
> You're not wrong, but it does strike me as a perfectly valid question to wonder whether the coach driver ought to have dropped the group off then parked elsewhere. Trouble is on a day like that he'd probably have had to go beyond Hathersage or all the way back into Sheff ....
Also the cost of fuel. Say he gets 4 or 5 mpg on those sorts of roads (reasonable coach mpg?). Even if he only had to move a few miles to park, he could easily be spending the best part of a tenner which he wouldn't be getting back from the group. Would anybody here spend that just to make parking more convenient for someone else?
Post edited at 11:10
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In reply to Rob Parsons:
Daft yes, but the bus was there first. It's more of a "I have a car so I outrank you" attitude
> The original complaint here seems daft - it's just a 'me first' reaction.
Daft yes, but the bus was there first. It's more of a "I have a car so I outrank you" attitude
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In reply to MarkJH:
Good point
> Also the cost of fuel. Say he gets 4 or 5 mpg on those sorts of roads (reasonable coach mpg?). Even if he only had to move a few miles to park, he could easily be spending the best part of a tenner which he wouldn't be getting back from the group. Would anybody here spend that just to make parking more convenient for someone else?
Good point
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