UKC

My friend wants an outdoorsy job. Is it possible to earn a living as a walk/mountain leader? She does not climb etc...just walks, wants to do ML training. Can she earn a living this way, in the UK?

In reply to Climbyclaudie:
Yes and no. Depends what you mean earn a living. £16-18k per annum is hard won.

Yes - lots of work for instructors like NCS, Prince's Trust, youth work etc. It's hard and tends to have a high burn .

No - as in the ideal of just leading walks. Summer season, weekend market.

In reply to Climbyclaudie:
With only the ML, it would be possible but tough, very tough.

In reply to Climbyclaudie:

Get involved with D of E expeditions, perfectly possible to make a living if she's willing to put the hours in. Never work for less than £100 a day, 6 days a week March to october is about £ 20.000 a year, find something else to do over winter. There are a lot of negative ideas about the outdoor industry, don't listen to them.

In reply to robapplegate:

She volunteers with d of e, MR etc...but they don't pay her! I guess if she got ML she could apply for jobs?

In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

If anyone wants to part fund her quals she would put in serious hours I believe.

In reply to Climbyclaudie:

Yep! I do, but as others have said, it's hard work and she won't get rich. It was my part time job for 3 years, now full time, although I have a lot of time off in winter and work like a nutter in summer. Also supplement with writing work.

In reply to Climbyclaudie:

Something to bear in mind that the figures being mentioned are gross, and for me comes after nearly 20 years in the industry. Best year I ever had was a tad over £20k - it nearly killed me, I was never home, always travelling, I never got to 'play', it heralded the break up of a relationship that was probably 'the one' (or not!).

It's certainly an interesting career but she'll be at the bottom of the pile. Seen many people not able to see it through. Plenty of time off now but the rock's piss wet through and the caves are flooded!

If she's got a fall back career then I'd say go for it.

In reply to Climbyclaudie:


Just saw this, so sorry for the disjointed replies. There are very, very few 'jobs'. It's all pretty much freelance. Centre work tends not to pay as well and with just ML, honestly, I don't think she'd get a sniff.

In reply to Climbyclaudie:

Yes, although as said above, you don't earn much and need another job in the winter. You also get much less time to play than you expect. I've done it for nearly 30 years with only an ML (but I started before the Lyme Bay deaths when an official qualification mattered less - it's probably harder to get started now). It's the best decision I ever made, met loads of ace people, been to some brilliant places and spent silly amounts of time on the hill.
Carry on volunteering, do the training, build up as much experience as you can (which is fun anyway, of course). Try people like the HF & Ramblers, which are expenses only but can lead on to other things through the tour firms. The latter are freelance but can be pretty steady work.
Go for it and have fun trying. Good luck,

Iain

In reply to Climbyclaudie:

The answer is yes but the real question is whether she has the business savvy to make it work. With the greatest respect to the ML award most reasonably competent people can pass it but not everyone can run a successful business. Her experience with D of E will probably get her off to a good start as the ML is a competency award it's not a guarantee that the holder is good with leading groups of people. Those are personal skills/qualities and she'll be up against competition that have done the centre circuit and been leading groups in the outdoors since they were teenagers and probably picked up a stack of qualifications on the way.

If you look around at people who make a living in the outdoors you'll notice that the vast majority are multi-qualified, paddle sports, walking, climbing, biking etc. and there's a reason for that. It would be a lot less of an uphill battle for her if she had something extra as a selling point, expertise in wildlife for example, doing guided wilderness walks, photography in the hills classes, wild food forraging, nighttime photography skills, history talks etc. etc. The people with money are the older generation who are happy to pay for someones skills and if I was her I'd be looking at what she has that she can market that others don't. Just taking people walking imo is unlikely to make enough to live on as a stand alone job especially at first.

In reply to Stuart (aka brt):


Not neccessarily, some centres will be prepared to play the long game and make an investment into her progression in other activities, which will give her a much more desirable "multi-activity" CV in the longer term. But she has to embrace those other activities (be they climbing, biking, paddlesports, etc, etc) and also recognise that most centres pay below minimum wage for a "trainee-ship" and will have her doing the full spread of unappealing centre task. But a lot of now well-established MIC, etc started this way, most of us have cleaned a toilet or two while we were starting out!

In reply to Jamie B:


Yes, that's probably me more considered than my 'not a sniff' comment. As to being able to make that a living which was the question, I don't know, it would be tough.

Be useful to know background - the answer would differ wildly if 16 young, free and single, as opposed to 36 with family commitments, a mortgage etc.

In reply to Climbyclaudie:

Would she consider training for Winter ML as well? It would widen her scope and give her additional income in the winter (well most 'normal' winters! )

In reply to Trangia:

likewise the International/European qualification

In reply to Climbyclaudie:

Yeah the wage is pretty poor, general ML work can also be pretty tedious walking very slowly. I dont know if could do it as a job full time.

In reply to Climbyclaudie:

I got a couple of mates working for D of E and all sorts of stuff in the Lakes area and it's a hard graft. Seasonal demand mixed with sometimes taking out people you just don't want to spend the day with for peanuts wages makes a tough life. For me personally, my passions are out of work things I do for fun rather than income.

I wonder if working in the outdoors would eventually take a degree of excitement out of it for some people. A few years ago I was out most weekends backpacking and hill bagging and I got to say the drive did start to wane. Now the climbing is mixed with the hiking the buzz has returned. I wonder how many in the outdoors industry get back after a day out and silently wheeze "thank **** thats over"?

In reply to Climbyclaudie:

I think it's something a lot of people dream about but I think it's a serious decision to make regarding finance and a saturated industry,not to mention the hobby you love may become a tedious job that you hate.i hope she does well,best of luck.