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Steve Ashtons Scrambles in Snowdonia

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 lone 07 Dec 2015

Just received his book in the post from Amazon for 1 pence, I like the way he writes ...

Page 75 Devils Kitchen and the Sheep Walk ... Grade 2/3

"Wet scrambling up the stream bed and over various slippery obstacles leads to the first major test-piece - The Waterfall Pitch. There are three possibilities here (four if you count going back now!); Strenuously up the left side - time consuming and unlikely to prove successful without a human pyramid, up through the gap beneath the boulder !"

Has anyone found at this point perhaps a human pyramid would have been a tad helpful ?


Also on Bryant's Gully on Esgair Felen, Page 71

"A bit of cunning is required to climb a step with a jammed boulder and to enter an alcove of no apparent easy exit. The trap is sprung !"

Did you feel that the trap was sprung ?

Love it, I look forward to finding these situations



L

In reply to lone:

Those of us old enough to remember his regular and generally hilarious articles in High magazine mourn the day he hung up his typewriter!
 d_b 07 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

Look for the entry on yr esgair on foel goch. The write up is a classic, though sadly missing from some older editions.
OP lone 07 Dec 2015
In reply to davidbeynon:

Now that one would be memorable, I'd leave it until last to savor !!

Into the Gulch

L
 d_b 07 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:
Now would be a good time for second thoughts...
Post edited at 16:48
 mrgleb 07 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

I love his 'ridge walks in Snowdonia ' book, not so much a guide, more a collection of anecdotes. Great read.
 JimmAwelon 07 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

AKA Steve Ashtons Helicopter Rescues in Snowdonia!

3
OP lone 07 Dec 2015
In reply to davidbeynon:

Quick off the mark - although I've never heard of a Gulch before
 birdie num num 07 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

"only those experienced in dangerous terrain should consider an ascent, and even they would be wise not to bother".
Steve Ashton on Foel Goch
 d_b 07 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:
I pull it out as a suggestion whenever I'm in Snowdonia with friends, particularly on wet weekends. Fortunately nobody has ever called my bluff!
Post edited at 22:33
 sbc_10 07 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

Anybody think that the Welsh grading system for scrambles is a bit skewed towards the difficult end of things in comparison to the Lakes ????
Removed User 07 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

what the hell became of steve ashton?-his book on hill walking and scrambling got me started on a lifetime of hill stuff-sound advice and wisdom delivered with ease and simplicity. a very good book, to my mind.
In reply to lone:

I love Steve's writing and living in Capel I'm friends with his ex-wife and daughter though haven't met the man himself!

The 'Classic climbs North Wales' guide has some great moments but as for 'Scrambles' my finest tick has been Yr Esgair...although I did leave it for a winter ascent! I've never fancied it in summer and having inspected it a fair few times in recent years I have no desire to do it again.

However, I have a morbid fascination for that route so please share your experiences
 Philip 07 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

> "Wet scrambling up the stream bed and over various slippery obstacles leads to the first major test-piece - The Waterfall Pitch. There are three possibilities here (four if you count going back now!); Strenuously up the left side - time consuming and unlikely to prove successful without a human pyramid, up through the gap beneath the boulder !"

> Has anyone found at this point perhaps a human pyramid would have been a tad helpful ?

On the first mountain trip (after a day in the peaks the previous week), a friend led a load of freshers in bad weather to attempt this by the pyramid route. I think they enjoyed it and found it character building.
 Andrew Barker 07 Dec 2015
In reply to birdie num num:

> "only those experienced in dangerous terrain should consider an ascent, and even they would be wise not to bother".

> Steve Ashton on Foel Goch

I finally soloed Yr Esgair in summer conditions a few years back. I remember reading the description as a kid and wondering how bad it could be! It's a certainly a bit of an adventure. The only hard bit is the direct ascent out of the gap up the rock rib which felt harder than the guidebook grade. The rest is easy but loose and grassy.

I also have a photo of me posed like Steve Ashton on the front cover (stood right at the top of the shark's fin on Shark Buttress on Glyder Fach). It's far more terrifying than it looks on the cover!

What a great guidebook.
 d_b 07 Dec 2015
In reply to JimmAwelon:
It has that reputation, but I feel it is undeserved. The real problem is that people think "it's only a scramble so it will be piss" and forget that what they are usually committing to is soloing a long mountain route in big boots and inclement weather.

I have found all the routes in there pretty much spot on. Glad I took a rope on Bilberry Terrace though.
Post edited at 23:52
 ben b 08 Dec 2015
In reply to birdie num num:

Also "Descent by the same route: Forget it"

See also Diddly Squat's Encyclopaedia of Mountaineering. I have said it before on here, I think a 'selected columns' from High back in the day (erm, the 1990s...) would be a fantastic read. I still remember the mix of comedy interspersed with some profound moments amongst the silliness. He's posted on here in the past but not recently AFAIK.

b
 Iain Thow 08 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

I really enjoyed Yr Esgair when I did it as a teenager (before Steve Ashton's book came out). The last move up from the notch took a bit of psyching though, scary! Haven't dared go back since. Steve's book got me into lots of brill places I hadn't thought of before and all the routes in it are worth the trip, although obviously some are much better than others. I think his grading is a bit erratic sometimes compared with Brian Evans' Lakes ones, I guess because he did most of them on his own so it's a bit dependent on whether he was having a good day or not (and on his day he was/is VERY good - the move out of the nest of spikes on Shark Buttress and the move right from the wide crack on Pennant Rib are both quite hard and seriously committing). Brian Evans nearly always did his routes with his wife or friends and so got at least one second opinion. Noel Williams's Lochaber guide suffers from the same problem (Noel's good days are a bit good too) - his Skye routes are much more evenly graded as he mostly did them in company. I suspect Highland Scrambles North might be another example as I only did about a third of the routes with others. Loved Steve's articles too ("as I wore a motorbike helmet and mostly climbed chimneys I spent much of the time suspended by my head" is an indelible phrase).
Enjoy the routes and keep looking round the corner for others.

Iain
 maxsmith 08 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

As above it's a fantastic book and I have (foolishly) challenged myself to finish every scramble in it. Yr Esgair inspires the most fear...
 Simon Caldwell 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Removed Userena sharples:

> what the hell became of steve ashton?

He pops up around here every now and then
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/profile.php?id=12045
OP lone 08 Dec 2015
In reply to maxsmith:
Yes I'm going to take a look at yr Esgair in May, I'll go as far as 'my point' of no return just for insperation and perhaps just be content that I went and looked, like we go to look at the Matterhorn or Everest

I'm just getting into Grade 2, however yr Esgair appears to be a SG3 with a huge difference - your life - so miles away from Yr Esgair at the moment, I know that feeling of 'one day you know your going to go and do it because something inside drives you', but I wonder if ... if I left it until last and consolidated all I've gained from his book and more would it put me in a better position to give it a go or is it as someone once wrote a 'voyage for mad men' ?

I guess its a question that can only be answered by myself when the time comes

L
Post edited at 23:30
 Steve Ashton 09 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

Yr Esgair is a heap of tot and nasty with it. Stay away. Far, far away.
 ben b 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

I think I'm safe here, thanks. I took your advice and now live in NZ.

See also http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=526908&v=1#x7091729 for those wondering about Didley Squat, although the blue lizard site appears to have died.

b
OP lone 09 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

Thanks everyone for Input, Thanks also Steve

L
 Iain Thow 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

Out of curiosity Steve, did you deliberately pick the 1,2,3 scrambling grades to cross over as winter grades or is it just a coincidence that the scrambling grade is very often the winter grade too?
 maxsmith 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Iain Thow:

*apart from main gully on Glyder Fach, which is a grade 1 in the book but 3+ in winter!
 d_b 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

I looked own it from the top once. I was not inspired!

It looks like a great line when you see it from the A5 though.
 Iain Thow 09 Dec 2015
In reply to maxsmith:

Hard for Grade 1 though. Plenty of other examples that don't fit too (Cneifion Arete, Bastow Gully, Pinnacle Ridge on St Sunday Crag) but I reckon it holds more often than not. I quite often reverse it and try out winter IIs & IIIs as summer scrambles - buttresses rather than gullies, obviously (SC Gully or Stob Gabhar Upper Couloir in summer anyone?). Had some cracking days out applying that logic.
Good luck with the rest of them Louie.
 maxsmith 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Iain Thow:

thanks Iain! I'm estimating it will take me ten years at my current rate..
 Steve Ashton 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Iain Thow:

> Out of curiosity Steve, did you deliberately pick the 1,2,3 scrambling grades to cross over as winter grades or is it just a coincidence that the scrambling grade is very often the winter grade too?

Yes, coincidence. And winter grades are much more variable with conditions, aren't they? I recall one year (1978?) when the back of the Devil's Kitchen completely drifted up into a Grade I snow plod, as opposed to a grade IV ice climb. Even in average conditions, I guess there would be lots of disparity. Bilberry Terrace, for example, a grade 3 summer scramble on Lliwedd, would probably be grade V in winter, and from what I recall, Crib Coch and similar grade 1 ridges would be typically II or III. In gullies, you might get snow banking out a hard step, though, so could be easier in places, while ridges/faces would be generally tougher.
 Ian Archer 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

Done it a couple of times.
The only tricky but is at the notch after the horizontal traverse. Its only a few moves but no belay for the second and not very good anchors at top of this small pitch - of course if soloing it wont matter.
The climbing is a bit slippy and the drop to the right is big. After this more reasonable, but loose in places. A great top out though, right to the summit.
 Solaris 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

Now that's an incitement to go and have a look at a route if ever I read one!

My only criticism of your guidebook description is that it rather understates the horrors of the route!
 Iain Thow 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

I always wondered. I agree about the variability in winter (part of the fun, isn't it), and gullies are mostly pretty loathsome places in summer (tweed never suited me anyway). Still find that on most ridges and buttress/face routes the scrambling grade and the usual winter grade are about the same, e.g. Crib Goch and N Ridge of Tryfan get 1 and I, Aonach Eagach & Ledge Route 2 & II, Clogwyn y Person 3 & III. Despite what I said about gullies, the Peak District cloughs seem to correlate pretty well too.
Had absolute bucketloads of fun out your book
Cheers,

Iain
 maxsmith 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

So Steve, can you enlighten us on your favourite scramble in the book and the scariest?

I'm also interested to know whether the majority of the routes are of your own creation, or historic routes you collated and graded.

Thanks for such a great guide, regards
llechwedd 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

> The 'Classic climbs North Wales' guide has some great moments but as for 'Scrambles' my finest tick has been Yr Esgair...although I did leave it for a winter ascent! I've never fancied it in summer and having inspected it a fair few times in recent years I have no desire to do it again.

> However, I have a morbid fascination for that route so please share your experiences

Last summer I talked two visitors from London out of downclimbing it. They were initially quite insistent that there was a footpath there on the map. The green marking on the map they referred to was actually the National Trust boundary...

 Steve Ashton 09 Dec 2015
In reply to maxsmith:
> So Steve, can you enlighten us on your favourite scramble in the book and the scariest?

Favourite is probably Bilberry Terrace on Lliwedd. Cunning route up a big, forbidding face. Almost alpine in feel.

Scariest experience on the included routes was being alone on Bilberry Terrace on a cold, damp and misty November night. Route finding by a dimming headtorch proved a little tricky...

Scariest overall experience was backing off an attempt at finding a direct approach to the ridge of Crib Lem via the crag of Llech Ddu - solo again - and having to retreat down a wall to a narrow ledge above a 300ft drop by lowering off a sprig of heather. You know, like you do. Still vivid.

> I'm also interested to know whether the majority of the routes are of your own creation, or historic routes you collated and graded.

A mix. Some were already popular ridge routes (eg Crib Goch, Bristly Ridge). Some were known as 'testing' rock climbing descent routes (eg. Jammed Boulder Gully). Others were long-neglected 'Easy' or 'Moderate' rock climbs from early 1900s - perhaps modified by finding a scrambling alternative to the crux moves (eg Tryfan East face routes) - and the rest made by exploring big but neglected rocky flanks of hills (eg. Braich tu du face). Most were resurrected old routes, though. I did explore numerous other new lines that proved to be too loose or discontinuous to bother including.

> Thanks for such a great guide, regards

You're welcome. It's odd to think of it still being used after 35 years.
Post edited at 18:01
 maxsmith 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

Really interesting, thanks - I'm hoping to try lliwedd this summer..
 FrankBooth 09 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:
A fantastic book - though Bilberry Terrace was very nearly my 'Oh shit! This-is-going-to-end-really-badly' moment.
Post edited at 18:45
 NathanP 09 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

I just wanted add my thanks to Steve Ashton for his inspiring books - a pivotal role in my earliest days out in the mountains too and to say that this is what I love about UKC: you can be reading one of the many threads about something you personally find interesting and important then somebody comes along and posts who was actually there on the first ascent, played a pivotal role or, as in this case, literally wrote the book. It almost makes all the other nitpicking, sniping, point-scoring threads worthwhile.
 Sam Beaton 09 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

I love all of Steve's scrambling and 100 best of guidebooks too, and I remember his articles in High fondly. He did an A to Z of British climbing in High once and Y was "Yorkshire Gritstone: the gnarliest, knobbliest, roughest rock in the world. And it serves the b*ggers right." I cut that quote out of the magazine and stuck it on the front of my first climbing diary I liked it so much.
 Tim Sparrow 09 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

Best bit about Yr Esgair is the ridge leading to it, the Mushroom Garden I think it is called. Wonderfully elevated place.
The worst bit about it is Yr Esgair. Thought provoking escape out of the gully.
 jezb1 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

> Favourite is probably Bilberry Terrace on Lliwedd. Cunning route up a big, forbidding face. Almost alpine in feel.

When I first moved up to Wales I ticked my way through lots of the routes in the book, days and days of value out of that one!

I didn't do Bilberry until my MIA training about 5 years ago, that was quite a scary day! I genuinely thought at times that whilst doing it as a roped party of three, if one of us went, we were all going! The route finding was spicy, the solid rock was greasy as and the rest of the rock was loose! Great day!
 Steve Ashton 09 Dec 2015
In reply to jezb1:

> The route finding was spicy, the solid rock was greasy as and the rest of the rock was loose!

There's an old joke... two elderly mountaineers arrive at the summit of Lliwedd, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the climbing at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and the routes are so short." Well, that's essentially how I feel about scrambling - full of loneliness, and misery, and suffering, and unhappiness, and it's all over much too quickly.

(with apologies to Woody Allen)
 malky_c 09 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

I must add my thanks for a great guidebook (and thread) as well . I did many of the routes in my teens (quite a few on summer evenings after school) and it opened my eyes up to a whole world of scrambling beyond the 2 or 3 routes I was aware of beforehand. I never did have the guts to try Yr Esgair in the end, but even 20 years later I still look at it and wonder what it would be like.

The book inspired me to go looking through the climbing guides for interesting routes that might be doable as scrambles, so I have it to thank for crapping myself up some chossy gully on Craig Cwm Silyn.

My trio of favourites would have to be Clogwyn y Person Arête, Dolmen Ridge and Bryant's Gully.
 Skyfall 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

As I've commented on UKC before, I still use your excellent, clear and v funny N Wales classic climbs guide.

The route topos still work brilliantly too, even in this age of photo everything.

Thanks
Post edited at 21:07
 Bobling 09 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

What a great thread!
 Mike Peacock 11 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

This is indeed a great thread. I ticked my way though a lot of Scrambles in Snowdonia when I lived in Wales, and had many memorable, and many scary, days in the hills. I also picked up an early edition of Scrambles in Snowdonia, as it mentions a few routes that never made it fully into the guide: South Spur of Glyder Fawr, Nameless Rib (Cwm Cneifion), and Embryo Ridge on Moel Siabod were all interesting outings, even if the scrambling on them was hit and miss.

I once went to look at Yr Esgair out of interest (with no intention to climb it). I approached via Esgair Gully, which is a delightful choss-fest. Anyway, a photo from the notch:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/3471136702/in/photostream/lightbo...

And here's a photo (not mine) looking back down at the notch
https://www.flickr.com/photos/34264011@N05/3569024527/in/photostream/
 cousin nick 11 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

Just dug my copy out from the shelves. As a student at Bangor Uni in the 80's Scrambles in Snowdonia was one of my most-used guides - mainly for solo trips.
Unfortunately, many of the memories have faded, but my pencilled ticks and one-word comments on the Contents page serve as a very poor record. Craig Lloer Spur gets 'biz' (presumably abysmal) though I don't remember why.
Bryants Gully is noted as 'wet!'. That I do remember - did it with a group of mates and ended up completely soaked with water trickling out of my overtrousers. I don't remember the jammed boulder or the feeling of being trapped, but back then I was in my late teens and completely invincible (weren't we all?).
My best memory is probably from summer 1984, after exams. I cycled from Bangor to the path up to Little Tryfan and just before 8am locked my bike to the fence and walked up towards Heather Terrace, stashing some food and water in the heather. I then did all of the Tryfan scrambles that day (numbers 6-11 in the book). From what I remember, I think South Gully was the scariest, mostly due to greasy rock at the start and the feeling that it would be very hard to reverse. A great day on Tryfan and then rode back to Bangor. Must've been fit back then!

N
 cousin nick 11 Dec 2015
In reply to cousin nick:

I've just found my diary from that year - I did the routes on Friday 27th April 1984.
My note for South Gully says: 'Steve Ashton ought to see a shrink if he thinks that's a scramble!'.

I also see that I cycled back to Ogwen the next day too (0600 start) to climb on Milestone Buttress. Them were the days!

N
 Nevis-the-cat 11 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

He's a good climber as well as a writer.

He put up several new routes in the Wigan Alps.
 Mike Peacock 11 Dec 2015
In reply to cousin nick:

I had at least two battles with South Gully over the years and never completed it. On my first visit I found the greasy, slabby start a bit baffling, and managed to avoid it out of the gully to the left. I can't remember why we subsequently turned back.

On a second visit we got high up in the right branch by misreading the guidebook and had to rope up to retreat back down the choss. Turns out the correct route is via the left branch.
 Solaris 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mike Peacock:

> I once went to look at Yr Esgair out of interest (with no intention to climb it). I approached via Esgair Gully, which is a delightful choss-fest. Anyway, a photo from the notch:


Further insidiously bland incitement to the foolhardy. Nice shot!
 Mal Grey 11 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

Another who enjoyed some memorable trips with Steve's "Little Book of Near Death Experiences". We were pretty cautious, so never had any really dodgy experiences ourselves, but some of the descriptions were inspirational and entertaining. What we learnt in moving on rock was very much a stepping stone to some great adventures once we learnt how to use those rope things and all those dangly metal bits and bobs...a fairly traditional "apprenticeship" in those days, I think.
 deepstar 11 Dec 2015
 John Gresty 11 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:
Bilberry buttress, solo, totally lost at the top, but reversing was not an option.

Bryants gully, we had to help to rescue another party below us who had pulled off a rock.

Tregallen gully, done in the winter

Once tried finding my way, solo, up the Trinity face on Snowden on a summers day. Unfortunately the mist rolled in just as I started, still don't know where I went, topped out somewhere near the summit, and do not recommend it. Although maybe there is a good line and I just didn't find it.

I do wonder if the art of moving on crap terrain is being lost.

I have thrown out as lot of guides as they have been superceded, but not Scrambles in Snowdonia. Always gave adventurous days out.

John
 Sean Kelly 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:
I once attempted Bryant's with my Springer Spaniel in tow, but wisely though that after a couple of steep pitches it was best to retreat. Quite glad I did as there is a wee wall pitch higher up that is tasty!
Later I took a novice up Yr Esgair on a wet day, which was a mistake for 2 reasons, but managed to escape off to the left. Friction on Welsh rock is usually pretty good but Yr Esgair is the exception to the rule.
Post edited at 20:07
In reply to Sean Kelly:
I've never fancied Bryant's, with or without a Benji shaped companion!

I think the spiciest moment I've had from the book (apart from my winter ascent of Yr Esgair which probably doesn't count, I wouldn't touch it in summer) was last year when I decided to solo up Dolmen Ridge one summer evening after work.

All was going well until I crossed the gully, went along the ramp, into the niche (which I didn't fancy reversing) and was confronted with that steep corner, the ascent of which on creaking jugs and a finishing hold I couldn't quite reach made for a pant-filling few minutes!
Post edited at 20:14
 Sean Kelly 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:
We've all been there Nick!
Incidently just grabbed my copy off the shelf and it was covered in cobwebs.
Post edited at 20:24
 jezb1 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

I've only ever gone down Dolmen... Will have to go up it one day!
 Mal Grey 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Sean Kelly:
Mine has just been moved to the "Reading Room", you know, the one with the nice porcelain. Looking forward to some nostalgic sessions in there.
Post edited at 20:47
In reply to Mal Grey:

Mine lives in there but comes out occasionally when in stops raining!
 somethingelse 11 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

great thread. and thanks steve for the book. i picked up a copy in a charity shopjust a year or two ago. hardly done any of the scrambles in here apart from the obvious grade 1 ridges. i look forward to doing some more. i did make it over towards yr esgair once though, although we opted for the 'mushroom garden' route nearby, which was magic. many thanks
 mattsccm 12 Dec 2015
In reply to somethingelse:

Every so often some bright spark pipes up that Steve's grades are not right. Surely, as he started the grading for scrambling, they are right and the others are duff.
Still got a pic of his on the wall . Its a page cut out of High, I think, Of me making a big deal out of the Idwal stream with a mate from the BNC. About 1984 I reckon. Some jerk somewhere else even used it as a criticism of bad practice , all because he couldn't see all the gear in place. Steve emailed me a copy o a couple of years ago. We didn't even know he was lurking.
 wilkesley 13 Dec 2015
In reply to mattsccm:

Steve also did some guidebooks to the Peak. I only found out about this when someone showed me a picture of myself on Knights Move at Burbage.
OP lone 14 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

I've decided that I'm going to have a go at Craig yr Ysfa, the Grade 2 there, look's like a great expedition, will be a good way to start ticking off the scrambles in the book !

L
 Mike Peacock 14 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

That's certainly an interesting outing, and I imagine it doesn't see many visitors. I did it years ago and it was great fun:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/177888249/sizes/z/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/177890560/sizes/z/
 cousin nick 14 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

Since posting the comments above, for some perverse reason that I can't quite explain, it seems like a great idea to revisit this little book of horrors and add some more ticks.
A little project for 2016.
Oh dear!

N
OP lone 14 Dec 2015
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Thanks Mike for the photo's put's a new perspective on the scramble now can see what the climb is a bit like

Looks great

L
OP lone 14 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

Looks like this thread has re-kindled some desires to go and finish off some scrambles, or even to just flick through the book and remember some great times !

L
 wilkesley 14 Dec 2015
In reply to Mike Peacock:

That brings back memories. I did it shortly after the book came out, but not since. From distant memory there is one awkward high step of the rocky part and the upper bit is "interesting" scrambling on mixed rock end vegetation in a fine position. Not difficult, but you wouldn't want to fall off.
 Mike Peacock 15 Dec 2015
In reply to wilkesley:

Yes, my memory is of a short steep wall. This bit I think:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/177917732/sizes/z/
Above that I recall a short, airy slab, then away onto the technically easy "rock staircase".
 wilkesley 15 Dec 2015
In reply to Mike Peacock:

That looks familiar. I was on my own, so didn't take any photos of the scramble. If we get some decent weather next year, I might go back and do it again.

Just discovered my old diary entry: 28th March 1982. Must have been a dry year!
In reply to lone:

I have had many wonderful adventures with that superb little book. This is the best discussion I've read on UK Climbing in years and it's especially great to get some insight from the author himself.
 climber34neil 17 Dec 2015
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

It was the highlight of the magazine, I still remember vividly the a to z feature with the route description for "gesticulating iguana " ventilate up the flareback and rock over for the obvious flopped knob" if only all guidebooks were so informative!!
 d_b 18 Dec 2015
In reply to Bobling:

> What a great thread!

Did I just hear you volunteer to accompany me up a certain ridge? It can't be much more intimidating than our last outing
 Fat Bumbly2 18 Dec 2015
Great thread and a return to some great memories, all the better for surviving them.
Loved Bryants BTW.

Many thanks Steve, still got the book and no, I am not going anywhere near Yr Esgair anytime soon.
 Bobling 18 Dec 2015
In reply to davidbeynon:

Haha - erm no. Baby here yet?
 HammondR 19 Dec 2015
In reply to lone:

I stand to be corrected, but there is no such thing as 1 pence. There is certainly 1 penny. "Pence" is the ghastly post decimalisation plural for "pennies", or probably more accurately" new pennies".
3
In reply to HammondR:

> I stand to be corrected, but there is no such thing as 1 pence. There is certainly 1 penny. "Pence" is the ghastly post decimalisation plural for "pennies", or probably more accurately" new pennies".

"pence" have been around since the C16th.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pence

E.g. "Threepence" and "sixpence" since about 1550.
1
llechwedd 19 Dec 2015
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

and here's a few lines utilising those ( pre-decimal ) coppers;

http://www.poetrysoup.com/famous/poem/21039/the_runcorn_ferry
In reply to llechwedd:

What a gorgeous example. Classic. Thanks.
Lusk 19 Dec 2015
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I always remember it as being Pounds, Shillings and Pence.

I think he can consider himself suitably corrected!
 Steve Ashton 19 Dec 2015
In reply to Lusk:

> I think he can consider himself suitably corrected!

I think the apposite, though I imagine now rather passé, term is "pwned."
llechwedd 19 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

Some years back, Wynford Vaughan-Thomas side stepped the issue by going bilingual-

"I once had sex in Blaenau Ffestiniog- price, one penny- Welsh 'un ceiniog!"
 HammondR 20 Dec 2015
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Gordon

Thank you your helpful input. Far be it from me to labour my earlier point, but;

1) I did state at the outset that I stood to be corrected. I like to get my excuses in first.

2) my point was that there was "no such thing as 1 pence"; i.e. "pence" is a plural. Your helpful link states:
"Both pence and pennies have existed as plural forms of penny since at least the 16th century. The two forms now tend to be used for different purposes: pence refers to sums of money ( five pounds and sixty-nine pence) while pennies refers to the coins themselves ( I left two pennies on the table). The use of pence rather than penny as a singular ( the chancellor will put one pence on income tax) is not regarded as correct in standard English." Am I missing something, or doesn't this confirm my (some might think trivial) point?

3) I put my hand up over the plural. The drink and the excitement had got the better of me by this stage. I think though that there is some basis to my, admittedly exaggerated contention. Pre decimalisation I never recall anyone spending "two pence" or six pence". The universally used form was "twopence" or "sixpence", as you helpfully point out in your post.

Anyway, in view of my efforts of 20th May 1990, dangling on weakening arms (poetic licence) on the crux of Kipling Groove for half an hour at your request - well, I would have expected a bit more backing!


In reply to HammondR:

You have completely misunderstood me. I was simply answering your point 3), and trying to be helpful with that.

Re. your last sentence. However was I to guess that? I don't remember asking anyone to dangle on weakening arms on KG. I think I had to wait for the light, in which case the person doing the route (if it was you) had to wait patiently on the ledge below the crux for the light. For lots of shots I used walkie talkies to communicate with the climber, but I don't particularly remember using them for that (very long) shot, but I suppose I must have done. I would have to look it up in my v old technical notes.
 HammondR 20 Dec 2015
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Gordon, my tongue was firmly in my cheek. I dined out on that photo (with non - climbing friends) for many a year. Delighted to have been there. You very politely asked if we could wait for the cloud to clear. IIRC your camera was a whopper.

Cheers.
 Alyson 20 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

> I think the apposite, though I imagine now rather passé, term is "pwned."

Last year: pwned = this year: rekt.

You're most welcome
In reply to HammondR:

> Gordon, my tongue was firmly in my cheek. I dined out on that photo (with non - climbing friends) for many a year. Delighted to have been there. You very politely asked if we could wait for the cloud to clear. IIRC your camera was a whopper.

Yes, a beautiful rosewood Wista Field camera taking 5 x 4" sheet film.
 Steve Ashton 20 Dec 2015
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Only on UKC could you find these explanations in consecutive posts:


> Last year: pwned = this year: rekt

and...


> a beautiful rosewood Wista Field camera taking 5 x 4" sheet film

 Alyson 20 Dec 2015
In reply to Steve Ashton:

Having now taken the time to read all of this lovely thread, I do rather feel I lowered the tone On the up-side, I also feel inspired to scare myself silly in Wales, so not all bad!
 Offwidth 21 Dec 2015
In reply to Alyson

They always used to say:

"It is better to err by the use of too low than too loud a tone."

https://archive.org/details/mannersculturedr00wellrich ...some cute illustrations as well as plenty of other quotes.

Steve's books inspired adventures and made for better stories afterwards. Even now an online appearance seemingly can act like magic (how good is this thread?)

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