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Coffee drinkers - machine suggestion

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 Philip 08 Dec 2015

I'm thinking of buying a coffee machine for my occasional coffee drinking. I usually have tea, partially because I hate poor coffee. We have good quality cafetiere coffee when friends come for dinner.

I'm looking at a small pump system. Are DeLonghi or Krups reliable. I've discounted the pod systems,despite curry's having tassimo for about £40, the coffee choice is too limiting. I'd like to stick with the organic beans and powder we use for cafetiere coffee.
Post edited at 13:11
 Hat Dude 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

We've had a Gaggia Cubika Plus for several years and it's been very good, it cost around the £100 mark

I think it's been discontinued, but the Gaggia Gran G looks very similar


 GreatApe 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

AeroPress!
1
OP Philip 08 Dec 2015
In reply to GreatApe:

> AeroPress!

I thought about one of those, but I quite like the look of a gadget. At the moment the DeLonghi EC680 looks the best, found it for £110 from a Czech based site.
 Hat Dude 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

One good thing about the Gaggia models is the automatic tamping mechanism which means you get a very good crema every time.
 Indy 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Can't fault the Jura Micro Ena 1
 Indy 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

> from a Czech based site.

Are you serious???
 GreatApe 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

You may as well pick one up anyway if you're spending that type of money: they're only about £25.

I have one at work and one at home, and have taken it camping. They make a really smooth coffee and you can get quite geeky about it: there's a world championship.
 jonfun21 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Hat Dude:

Second that comment we also have one and it makes great coffee; shame they don't make it anymore.

Below seems to be the replacement - albeit plastic rather than metal:

http://www.gaggia.uk.com/machines.htm#!/Gaggia-Gran-Style/p/52699745/catego...
 Fredt 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Gaggia Classic.

On my second one, the first lasted about 10 years.
Can be tricky to keep scale free in hard water areas, which ours isn't.
 Alyson 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Fredt:

Aye, we have a Gaggia Classic too and it's fab.
 summo 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:


> I. I'd like to stick with the organic beans and powder we use for cafetiere coffee.

I'd just stick with this, sounds like you are solving a problem that doesn't exist.
 LG-Mark 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

We've considered many time spending bucks on a coffee machine, every time the budgets gets daftly expensive and then i return to my £8 enamel coffee pot, and £1 strainer. We just buy good quality beans and grind ourselves in our vintage (£5 - about 10 years ago) DeVe grinder.
Can't say i've ever found anything to better it and spending £800 on a machine won't improve things one jot!
 john_mx 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

nespresso lattissima All the way! I have used all kinds of ways and methods and this for me is the best thing EVER! Worth ever penny I have payed...
 winhill 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

If you are using a cafetiere ATM, then I'm not sure you want a high pressure espresso machine, like a Gaggia.

They make quite different styles of coffee, unless you want frothy milk too?

A filter style machine will make far better coffee than a cafetiere IMO and switch off when it's ready and lots less hassle to clean than a high pressure job (essential for decent espresso but that's a different story).
 minimike 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

> I thought about one of those, but I quite like the look of a gadget. At the moment the DeLonghi EC680 looks the best, found it for £110 from a Czech based site.

It kind of depends whether you want a gadget or great, easy to make coffee... :-p
OP Philip 08 Dec 2015
In reply to summo:

> I'd just stick with this, sounds like you are solving a problem that doesn't exist.

I'd stick with the cafetiere for after-dinner, it's nice to share a pot, and it makes a thinner longer drink.
Put I'd also like to be able to make espresso and capaucino.

£100ish for a toy seems fine. I'm not spending >£200. A compact red or metal machine would look good in the new kitchen we're having made in January.

Certainly going to look at these Gagia models. I was mostly taken by the fact the DeLonghi model is small, aesthetic and seems to have all the features the John Lewis guide suggests are important.

How critical is the art of tamping?
1
OP Philip 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Indy:

> Are you serious???

Yes. They're made in China. What difference does it make if it's sold from one EU country on another? I've checked the ratings, the site is legit - apparently a chain of electrical stores in Czech. So no different to someone in Czech ordering something from Maplin.
 Ramblin dave 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

What are you grinding with at the moment? And what sort of beans do you use - traditional dark-roast Italian or funky fruity new-school light roasts?

I mostly drink the latter and would much rather have a decent grinder and a moka pot or a chemex than use pre-ground beans with an expensive espresso machine. On the other it probably makes less difference for more traditional coffee with less in the way of delicate aromatics.

I'm always tempted by a manual espresso machine for the chrome and the theatre and the levers, but I'm kind of put off by the fact that they're apparently so dependent on your skill in using them - in the end I'd rather have something that just gives you consistent results.
 Cú Chullain 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Forget a machine, get one of these!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61hVqx2078L._SY355_.jpg

They are simple to use, cost about £20, make great coffee and you don't get stitched up having to buy coffee pods.
 summo 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Cú Chullain:

> Forget a machine, get one of these!
> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61hVqx2078L._SY355_.jpg
> They are simple to use, cost about £20, make great coffee and you don't get stitched up having to buy coffee pods.

they are great, I use one on the stove if it's only coffee for one and you can get mini one for camping expresso.
OP Philip 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Cú Chullain:

> Forget a machine, get one of these!


> They are simple to use, cost about £20, make great coffee and you don't get stitched up having to buy coffee pods.

I was led to believe they don't worry with induction.

Also, in not looking at the machines that take pods (see OP). Just the electric version of one of those with a steam arm.
 gd303uk 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:
The Bialetti makes a great cup as does the Gaggia and aeropress, had them all, still got the areo' and use it a lot.
my fav for an espresso is the normal Bialetti listed above.
but for an Induction hob try this.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bialetti-Elegance-Induction-Stainless-Espresso/dp/B...

get the six cup so you can have a mug of strong coffee in the morning
Post edited at 17:04
In reply to Philip:
I have a DeLonghi machine and it has been excellent. Multiple times a day, every day, and so far faultless after two years. Not the model your thinking, but the EC860M. Choose that one as it is more automated, can adjust strength of coffee by setting amount of water to be used (yet can change ad hoc if necessary for different sized cup), dispense water only, has different inserts for singles or doubles (or pods, yuck, if I didn't want to use ground coffee), and lastly but important to me is I can get my size of large mug under it!! Lots of machines don't have the space for a mug and you then have the faff of using an express cup/other cup and pouring (losing the crema) etc.

So easy to use and maintain. I like the coffee it produces (of course it is bean and grind dependent) and nice crema. No regrets with my model, but more expensive than your after. Only negative to an otherwise solid well built machine I've found is the chrome plating base for the cup to sit on is very easily scratched - think this is a problem for most DeLonghi models. It only looks good for a week max after buying!

Yes there are lots of cheaper options as others have suggested, but I for one never got on with aeropress, mocha pot, etc., if only for pure speed and simplicity of using and cleaning up, will not be going back .
 Oujmik 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

I think you already own a grinder? Couldn't see it mentioned but you did mention beans so I assume you grind them fresh. Just in case you don't, I'd suggest you buy a grinder and whatever filter method floats your boat (cafetiere, aeropress, etc). This combo with nice fresh lightly roasted bean gives my favourite coffee experience. Personally I think espresso machines are overrated but I'm willing to have my mind changed!
OP Philip 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Oujmik:

> I think you already own a grinder? Couldn't see it mentioned but you did mention beans so I assume you grind them fresh. Just in case you don't, I'd suggest you buy a grinder and whatever filter method floats your boat (cafetiere, aeropress, etc). This combo with nice fresh lightly roasted bean gives my favourite coffee experience. Personally I think espresso machines are overrated but I'm willing to have my mind changed!

I usually buy ground. But I do have the grinder attachment for my Kenwood Chef. I used to grind beans as a youngester in one of those hand driven grinders where the coffee drops into the little drawer.

As my only time for coffee would be a weekend morning, I don't mind a bit of faff. I think I'll go with the Bialetti jug and see how I get on.

Thanks for all the advice.
 PPP 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Oujmik:
> I think you already own a grinder? Couldn't see it mentioned but you did mention beans so I assume you grind them fresh. Just in case you don't, I'd suggest you buy a grinder and whatever filter method floats your boat (cafetiere, aeropress, etc). This combo with nice fresh lightly roasted bean gives my favourite coffee experience. Personally I think espresso machines are overrated but I'm willing to have my mind changed!

Agreed, freshly roasted beans which are ground just before pulling an espresso shot or brewing coffee are more important than fancy machine.

OP, I am not sure whether you want a nice coffee machine or a nice looking coffee machine (especially after saying that you hate poor coffee, but okay with ground coffee, probably from a grocery store). You might have a win-win (and well under 100 quid) with a Chemex. It makes damn clear and nice coffee, but try before buying. If you are into fruitier coffees, like (African) Kenyan, Ethiopian, Rwandan, etc., it can be sweet and full of fruits and chocolate flavors. I don't get a really good coffee out of Aeropress, but it is fun to try different recipes.

Edit: I just realized that you still need a grinder and probably a pour over kettle to make things easier (scales as well if you don't have ones). More importantly, a lot of passion about getting the best cup of coffee you can. You would also need a thermometer to make sure you get the right temperature (unless you use water straight off the boil, but I use as low as 80-85 degrees for some brews). That just wouldn't fit into your budget, unfortunately.
Post edited at 19:01
 Sharp 08 Dec 2015
In reply to gd303uk:

Another vote for the mocha express, there's really no need for anything else. Do yourself a favour and get an actual bialetti one, the copies are shit and a couple of quid cheaper and poorly made in comparison.
OP Philip 08 Dec 2015
In reply to PPP:


> OP, I am not sure whether you want a nice coffee machine or a nice looking coffee machine (especially after saying that you hate poor coffee, but okay with ground coffee, probably from a grocery store).

By poor coffee, I mean instant with a splash of milk. Coffee made the way you make tea. I want something more like you get abroad or in a decent coffee shop (although in the UK I usually use tea rooms and prefer darjeeling and a slice of cake)

>That just wouldn't fit into your budget, unfortunately.

I don't have a budget. But having just ordered a bespoke kitchen a huge range cooker, I have no intention of spending more money that I would justify in the pleasure of the drink. I want something to produce an intense, fresh, strong coffee that I can drink espresso or use to make another drink.

This is always going to be second place to our tea making. The reason I originally picked the DeLonghi was it's compact size can be justifed on the worktop (I hate things on the worktops - only kettle, knives, toaster, Kenwood and breadmaker have earnt a place. The old fashioned scales are there to because my wife likes them).

I have a grinder (see above). I'll use powder or grind my own.
OP Philip 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Sharp:
> Another vote for the mocha express, there's really no need for anything else. Do yourself a favour and get an actual bialetti one, the copies are shit and a couple of quid cheaper and poorly made in comparison.

This is looking no1 at the moment. I'm just looking to see if it will work with my induction. Some induction plates get funny about undersized pans, I need to check if it will work on the one I've got coming.

Edit. Checked it, the smallest recommended pot is 12cm, the only Bialetti that big is the 10 cup!
Post edited at 19:31
1
 PPP 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Ah, I did not mean to offend you. I spend quite a bit in coffee communities on internet and we all agree that poor coffee is stale coffee. The ones you find in the grocery shops, though Waitrose started stocking Union coffee, which can be just couple weeks old. It's unusual to find coffee related threads on UKC and just didn't realize I am in a completely different group of people who who get Compak grinders and Londinium L1 lever espresso machines for home use. Some people roast their beans at home as well.

I found that I enjoy craziness in the coffee, so natural processed, light roasted (less than a week) African coffees make me stop thinking abut anything else and just enjoy the cup. Try some independent coffee roasters around. I spent 3 years in Glasgow until I realized that there are 7+ cafes within walking distance which serve and sell fresh roasted coffee. Changed my understanding of coffee entirely, coffee I used to call decent now tastes terrible.
OP Philip 08 Dec 2015
In reply to PPP:

Not offended. Just thought your post was a bit headstrong, now I see why. I knew there'd be some coffee nuts come and comment, and I won't argue with you over subtly of flavour, but there is a point where preparation becomes important, and as an occasional drinker I'm perhaps better with a simple machine and reasonably decent powder. If I do go for the machine, the one I'm looking at does have a thermoblock which should mean more aromatic coffee than using boiling water. Most of the other machines are too big/ugly for me to want to leave out on the side - and once in the cupboard...
 aln 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Stove top espresso maker. I LOVE my Bialetti!
 the abmmc 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Stove top Bialetti and glass milk frother which also sits on the stove top with a false cafetiere pump press for frothing the milk up. Brilliant, but you just have to keep an eye on the milk. Also good value for friends who think the frother is a cafetiere and wonder why all the grinds get past the press. Total coffee perfection for espresso's, latte's and cappuccino's for less than £40. Bargain!!! Now spend the rest of your budget buying the best beans you can find. My best cup of coffee.......in Timbuktu while a guy fixed our engine. His pal roasted beans in a frying pan over an open fire, ground them in a mortar and pestle and then served up quite simply the best cup of coffee I've ever had.

Coffee eh, just make sure you pay the right price and at least make it fairtrade.

Tom
 Oujmik 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:
The Kenwood Chef grinder attachment is far from ideal (and I'm very much a low-end coffee head, my grinder is one of the cheapest available and I don't own an espresso machine...).

I'd consider buying a basic burr grinder (these grind the coffee slowly and methodically unlike the blade-based ones which are inconsistent and can actually burn the coffee due to the high speeds) and order some freshly roasted coffee from a company like Pact or Has Bean and then grind it immediately before consumption.

To elaborate on what our resident coffee-head said above, coffee from supermarkets (even the expensive brands) has typically been hanging around for months and will have gone stale. Normally, a coffee this stale would taste of almost nothing and customers would smell a rat, so what they do is they roast it very very dark. All the nice sweet, aromatic flavours still vanish as the coffee goes stale, but the bitter tang that comes from a dark-roast hangs around so at least it still 'tastes of coffee'. Ground coffee goes stale much faster than beans so by buying ground you're only making it worse for yourself as John Cleese might say.

EDIT: just to add the Bialetti is fairly cheap so worth a bash (I own two) but personally I prefer filter, I find it gets a bit too hot and can come out a bit bitter for my tastes. Also, double check the induction aspect as I thought they were aluminium...
Post edited at 21:10
 bouldery bits 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

What's wrong with Nescafe gold?
OP Philip 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Oujmik:

I've found a specialist bean supplier that is local. They also supply their products ground to different specs. They also sell a lot of nice teas. Quite pleased to find this.
 Hooo 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Fredt:

+1
Gaggia Classic is the Skoda Octavia of espresso machines. You'd need to spend double to get anything better.
I've had Gran and Baby Gaggias, and the Classic is definitely worth the extra money.
 Murderous_Crow 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:
Before you buy anything, go and try the very best coffee you can find. Seek out a cafe with a good reputation using fresh-roasted beans (either roasted on premises or from one of a few reputable suppliers such as Square Mile, Origin, Hasbean, Quarter Horse, and so on). Opt for an espresso, with no sugar. Stir in the crema before drinking: crema's a hallmark of a well-pulled espresso but on its own tastes ashy. The after taste should be sweet, rich and lingering with distinct flavours. Go round the corner to a Costa or a Starbucks and compare. The bitter, burnt and nagging aftertaste will be a world apart from what you've just experienced. Supermarket coffee (regardless of whether it's ground or not) will be equally bad if not worse.

At this point you'll be spoiled for life. Previously 'OK' coffee will barely serve for caffeine duties. So what next? Believe me that unless you're prepared to spend a lot more (an awful lot), you will not get comparable home espresso. You'll be able to make something 'ok' but why spend £110 on mediocre?

ETA: personal recommendation (like Ramblin Dave, PPP and others) would be an Aeropress. Couple this with a *decent* grinder as Oujmik says and you're away. The grinder is hugely important, as consistent grind size is essential for avoiding nasty over- or under-extraction in the cup. Forget electric grinders full stop, buy a decent Porlex, Hario or Rhinowares hand grinder for about £35. The Aeropress is about £25.
Post edited at 21:32
OP Philip 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Murderous_Crow:

Okay, to sum up:

Don't spend £100 on a machine, spend less on a stove pot and lose the milk frother. But then don't use ground coffee. And then at the end of the day it will still taste crap compared with a coffee shop.

Confused? Not in the slightest :-~
 damowilk 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

I think there are different levels of coffee addiction/pedantry, worth knowing where you are on this scale.
Those recommending aeropresses and stove tops are a different subgroup from the coffeegeek readers who have an expensive machine and a mini mazzer.
I have an aeropress and a stove top, but mostly use my machine. For the budget I was willing to splurge I have a delonghi, and am very happy with it. I tried a gaggia in a similar price bracket and was not impressed: their budget range doesn't compete well on performance vs cost.
 Ramblin dave 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:
I tend to think of the stove-top pot, the pourover filters (Chemex or V90) and the aeropress as being about on a level with each other, with each one having its disadvantage (a moka pot needs a heat source, a pourover filter doesn't do espresso strength, and the aeropress looks like a bit like a Swedish-made penis enlarger pump). I haven't put this to the test, but I get the impression that they'll all do better coffee for much less money than a cheap espresso machine, albeit not as good as you'd get in a cafe that's invested a five-figure sum in a custom built Slayer machine.

Properly fresh grinding makes a big difference for big fruity aromatic light-roast coffees but if you like fairly traditional deep and dark Italian blends then getting stuff ground every couple of weeks probably won't ruin your enjoyment. If you are going to grind freshly then a hand cranked burr mill is better than an electric thing with blades.
Post edited at 22:40
Graeme G 08 Dec 2015
In reply to bouldery bits:

> What's wrong with Nescafe gold?

My thinking exactly. Its just a cup of coffee!!
 Ramblin dave 08 Dec 2015
In reply to PPP:
Out of interest, how hard is it to dial in the grind for a Chemex? As I understand it, adjusting the grind is the only way to control the degree of extraction, but how hard is it to get right? Do you have to tweak it for different beans, or is it much of a muchness?

I quite like the idea of getting one - they look pretty and seem to make lovely coffee - but I'm not sure I can be bothered repeatedly having to get the grind right when I go from pourover to moka pot and back or get a different packet of beans in...

(Edit: sorry about the slight hijack...)
Post edited at 23:35
 mark burley 08 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:
Perfectly happy with my Delonghi icona machine and hario mini grinder. But I am sure the real coffee geeks despair.
I have 1 cup a day of double espresso with a bit of warm milk I suppose you could call it a macchiato? Splurge out more than £130 for that amount of intake no way.
 Murderous_Crow 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Haha, ok. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Basically what me and the other coffee-heads are telling you is to forget home espresso, you won't get results comparable with a good cafe unless you're prepared to invest a lot of money and time.

Espresso is a really 'high maintenance' drink to make. This doesn't mean it's inherently superior to other methods, although once you've had an excellent shot you may disagree It's very easy to get wrong. A poor machine (and worse, a poor grinder) will not help to get it right, arguably it's impossible. My home espresso setup would be £800ish new: £450 machine, £350 grinder. I've found I still need to use my Porlex hand grinder instead of the electric thing if I want a really decent espresso.

Buy a good (cheap) brewing method such as Aeropress, Chemex or even a stove-top if you really must Pair this up with a good hand grinder, as a cheap electric grinder is lots of awful. From this setup, so long as you're using good fresh beans, you'll get world-class coffee. Written from my office while drinking a gorgeous Hasbean coffee made with an Aeropress.

Ramblin Dave - hijacking your hijack a bit I used a Chemex for the first time recently, I found it makes a lovely clean and light brew, sadly a bit on the cold side for me though. I used a medium setting on my Porlex about halfway between cafetiere and espresso. I used two different beans at different times and FWIW I didn't feel the grind size was that vital. PPP - would be interested to hear your thoughts too



OP Philip 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Murderous_Crow:

I see you mention hasbean. They're only about 10 miles from where I live, I assumed they would count as a good quality local supplier.
 Murderous_Crow 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Yes definitely! And seeing as you're obviously somewhere near to Brum, can I recommend trying at least one of the following caffs for a good espresso:

http://sixeightkafe.tumblr.com/ (city centre)

http://quarterhorsecoffee.com/pages/birmingham (city centre south)

http://independent-birmingham.co.uk/saint-kitchen/ (jewellery quarter)

http://www.urbancoffee.co.uk/ (city centre and JQ)

N.B. Quarter Horse produce excellent beans too, worth trying!
 Hooo 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Murderous_Crow:

> Haha, ok. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Basically what me and the other coffee-heads are telling you is to forget home espresso, you won't get results comparable with a good cafe unless you're prepared to invest a lot of money and time.

It's true that you won't get results comparable with a good cafe at home, but I wouldn't agree that it's not worth trying. Even with the current trend for artisan coffee, a really good espresso is still a rare find IME. My basic home kit produces a better cup than anywhere in my home town, and better than any chain - despite their fancy kit.
 Murderous_Crow 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Hooo:

Respectfully differ there, but it does depend a lot on just how much you care. Even a slight over- or under-extraction annoys me, and I'll bin a shot on this basis. That's because I'm a bit spoilt (living close to the above cafes), and I've got a fairly obsessive personality

For me, if it's not as good as the (wonderful) coffee served in these places, it's not worth drinking; I'd rather have a cup of tea. As such, Aeropress et al represents a way to make beautiful coffee without the huge expense and effort of producing top-class espresso.
 ben b 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

How do you have your coffee?

If you go latte/FW/cap then you will need a proper high bar steam system; or alternatively use the Aerocino 3 from Nespresso which has the major advantage of not needing to be extorted for pods, unlike everything else those arses at Nestle make.

Since 2003 we've used a Jura F50 which produces beautiful espresso with a fantastic crema; it's drawn down somewhere in the region of 40,000 cups since then (it counts...). Teamed up with the Aerocino it has been a very good investment indeed although significant outlay at the time.

b
OP Philip 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Murderous_Crow:

Sorry, Hasbean are further than I thought. I'm near Ashbourne or Uttoxeter. Hasbean are the far side of Stafford. I think they're mail order anyway.
OP Philip 09 Dec 2015
In reply to ben b:

> How do you have your coffee?

I don't have a single favourite. At the moment I drink string cafetiere occasionally, and instant 50:50 with milk on a Sunday with a drop of brandy even more occasionally. That's why I don't drink much coffee at home. Also, poor coffee when out is so much worse than standard tea that I only drink it if it's going to be good.

I just want to be able to make intense small coffees that I can use to make a variety of drinks. Espresso some of the time, capaucino and latte more often.
 galpinos 09 Dec 2015
In reply to summo:

> ....... for camping expresso.

How did no one pick you up on this, on a coffee geek thread! Espresso

If we were in the same room:

youtube.com/watch?v=1IvWoQplqXQ&

 galpinos 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Any of the above methods will be an improvement on your current coffee. I'll add my 2ps worth:

- Get a hand grinder. I really enjoy grinding my own beans on a weekend morning, just enough for what I'm making, I think I enjoy the process as much as the coffee itself. They don't cost much, stocking filler?
- An Aeropress is great but it won't make you an espresso. I have an Aeropress and a mokka pot and the Aeropress wins hands down, lovely coffee but if you want to make espresso at home, you'll need something else.
- Don't listen too hard to the coffee nazis, just because they can't make an espresso at home to their exacting standards doesn't mean you shouldn't try and enjoy whatever you make! There are plenty of people with pod machines that think they are amazing......

I have a yearning to have a home espresso making set up but don't have the space (nor budget at the moment) to get what I want. The time will come though.........
 galpinos 09 Dec 2015
In reply to the coffee geeks on the thread:

Anyone used a Bialetti Brikka? Better than a mokka, no difference, just a gimick? I'm thinking of adding one to my Christmas list.
 MonkeyPuzzle 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Two Day Coffee in Bristol are my local roasters and they also do fast mail order, beans or ground. To stick my oar in, I'd say my priorities look like this:

1. Fresh coffee - Hasbean, Two Day Coffee, whoever
2. Freshly ground - I use a hand grinder, but, if you can't be bothered, and don't want to spend £150+ on an electric burr grinder, just buy small amounts (200g tops) of freshly ground
3. Brewing method

I really think the machine/method comes in a distant third after what you put in it and I would be much happier sticking with a cafetiere using freshly roasted and ground beans, than supermarket coffee pushed through an expensive machine.
 ChrisNaylor 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Nespresso for single cups or if you prefer to make a pot of coffee go for a Bravillor. I've got one of each but the Nespresso machine is only used when guests are round, the Bravillor is on all day in my office!

 Oujmik 09 Dec 2015
In reply to galpinos:

> Anyone used a Bialetti Brikka? Better than a mokka, no difference, just a gimick? I'm thinking of adding one to my Christmas list.

Yes, I have. The build quality is nice but I'm not sure it actually improves the coffee. The 'crema' it produces is very fleeting. If anything the 'valve' just makes me scared that it's going to explode and seems to result in the whole thing getting excessively hot before actually producing coffee. I'm not a massive mokka-pot fan though, so you may find it better.
 PPP 09 Dec 2015
In reply to Ramblin dave:

> Out of interest, how hard is it to dial in the grind for a Chemex? As I understand it, adjusting the grind is the only way to control the degree of extraction, but how hard is it to get right? Do you have to tweak it for different beans, or is it much of a muchness?

> I quite like the idea of getting one - they look pretty and seem to make lovely coffee - but I'm not sure I can be bothered repeatedly having to get the grind right when I go from pourover to moka pot and back or get a different packet of beans in...

> (Edit: sorry about the slight hijack...)

No worries! It really depends on the grinder and kettle. You need a consistent grind so that you get as less fines as possible for both more even extraction and less filter clogging. I can consistently get the brew time for Chemex between 3:30 and 4:00, no matter how much water I am using (usually go either 300ml or 750ml). It took me maybe 4 different settings until I got it perfectly right. I am using Orphan Espresso Lido 2 and it's way much easier due to grind consistency and stepless adjustment, but Hario Skerton is really difficult to dial in because of inconsistency and stepped adjustments. Of course, you would need a pour over/drip kettle (Hario, Bonavita, Kalita, etc.). I got Bonavita Variable Temperature Kettle, so I don't need to worry about the water temperature and got a goose neck for more controlled pouring.

Scales are inevitable to get consistent result. Some of them are with timers (Brewista, Hario), but they are quite gimmicky. I had/have both of them. Not really worth for the price, to be honest.

With larger volumes, you coarsen the grind and adjust the water level in the top bit of Chemex (aka where the slurry is). I usually pulse rather than pour continuously. For example, two different methods:
18g of coffee, 300g of water: bloom with 40g of water for 20s, pour water until scale shows 150g and keep the same water level. I finish pouring between 2:20 and 2:30. Dry grounds at 3:30.
45g of coffee, 750g of water: bloom with 150g of water for 20s, pour water until scale shows 350g and keep the same water level. I finish pouring around 2:30. Dry grounds at 3:30-4:00 (can't remember exactly and can't take a look at coffee logbook).

It might sound like a science experiment, but once you get everything right, there's no way back. The coffee is just delicious.
 summo 09 Dec 2015
In reply to galpinos:

> How did no one pick you up on this, on a coffee geek thread! Espresso

Sometimes you think you've got away with it, then later the truth catches up with you, bit like Pictorious only an ever so slightly lesser offence here.
 Murderous_Crow 10 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

Just don't go to London and ask for an expresso:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/london-in-grip-of-bearded-coffee...

'...Bearded, wild-eyed young man with extreme views on beans and filtration effectively control large parts of the capital, operating from minimalist premises with bikes on the walls.'

 Jim Fraser 10 Dec 2015
In reply to Philip:

This morning, I put a fresh Melitta filter in the old Moulinex, added a couple of heaps of Ethiopia's finest and some water, and produced some delightful aromatic warm brown liquid: AGAIN. When I say 'old' Moulinaex, I mean that this is the same Moulinex that I bought at the Auchan in Cambrai in 1983 when it was on special offer for 30 francs.

It's coffee. Sometimes my life seems like a route from one coffee cup to the next. However, it's just coffee and it's not hard to make well.


Knock yourself out.
http://www.auchan.fr/petit-electromenager/cuisine/petit-dejeuner/cafetiere/...
 mike123 10 Dec 2015
In reply to Jim Fraser:
Couldn't agree more , it's perfectly possible to make an excellent brew with one of those paper filter cones , a paper filter and the patience to let the water go off the boil before gently pouring a small amount of water over the pre ground coffee (provided it's fresh ), letting it swell, then gently pouring the rest of the water over . Next addition would be a hand grinder and freshly roasted beans .
I would agree that for a £100 an espresso machine is not the way to go . However a relatively cheap machine like the gaggia classic paired with a good burr grinder will make a very drinkable espresso, again with patience , much faffage and time spent on you tube.
edit : basic grinder recommendation Would be an ascaso mini , which should be £100 off eBay , there be loads on there after Xmas when people have upgraded.
It is possible to make top class espresso at home , you just need a lot of space for a good machine and grinder and a partner who also likes coffee enough to allow it in the kitchen . I know several people on here as well as me have silly set ups that most others wouldn't justify or want , but erm don't most people on here have at least one hobby that most other people find a bit silly ?
Post edited at 16:08
 summo 10 Dec 2015
In reply to mike123:
> I would agree that for a £100 an espresso machine is not the way to go . However a relatively cheap machine like the gaggia classic paired with a good burr grinder will make a very drinkable espresso, again with patience , much faffage and time spent on you tube.
> edit : basic grinder recommendation Would be an ascaso mini , which should be £100 off eBay , there be loads on there after Xmas when people have upgraded.

you don't have to go all techno gadget for a good grinder. Old fashioned types work just as well. https://www.google.se/search?q=coffee+grinder+wooden+antique&biw=1366&a...
1
 mike123 10 Dec 2015
In reply to summo:
look nice and will do the job for French press , but tbh useless for getting anything drinkable from an espresso machine . Trying my best to avoid sounding like a bearded wa@?!er riding my fixe into an oddly named cafe , but a good burr grinder allows you to faf about with the grind to hit the sweet spot to match beans/freshness of roast to the machine or method of brewing . The better the grinder the greater level adjustment and the more consistency . As has been said a good grinder is more important than a good machine. I haven't had a bushy beard for years , as to the second bit I'm married with three kids ,so somewhat unavoidable.
Edit : I did fancy a fixe but after having a couple of goes on one put the idea on the back burner somewhere close to my on sight solo of strawberries .
Post edited at 16:52
 summo 10 Dec 2015
In reply to mike123:

> , but tbh useless for getting anything drinkable from an espresso machine . Trying my best to avoid sounding like a bearded wa@?!er riding my fixe into an oddly named cafe , but a good burr grinder allows you to faf about with the grind to hit the sweet spot to match beans/freshness of roast to the machine or method of brewing . The better the grinder the greater level adjustment and the more consistency .

#clearlytoomuchsparetime

 mike123 10 Dec 2015
In reply to summo:
Yep.
But wouldn't mind a bit more if you fancy babysitting in return for a poncey latte or an espresso that will transport you to the foothills of northern italy
 summo 10 Dec 2015
In reply to mike123:

In word, no. But thanks for the most generous offer.

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