This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
how many grades improved in year, month, week or day? out of interest?
In reply to JSH:
Moderate to HVS in just over three weeks, leading on sight in Snowdonia, August 1968. But that was after two years of top-roping on southern sandstone.
Moderate to HVS in just over three weeks, leading on sight in Snowdonia, August 1968. But that was after two years of top-roping on southern sandstone.
3
In reply to JSH:
Zero to V.Diff in bendy boots, Dovestones Edge solo circa 1974.
Zero to V.Diff in bendy boots, Dovestones Edge solo circa 1974.
Post edited at 18:43
2
1
2
In reply to Mick Ward:
No, after 20 years of trad, I had just hardly done any sport climbing and once I had lost fear of falling off on bolts a bit I realised a bit how hard you can pull if you really commit. To get as big a leap now would take serious effort and I am probably too lazy!!
No, after 20 years of trad, I had just hardly done any sport climbing and once I had lost fear of falling off on bolts a bit I realised a bit how hard you can pull if you really commit. To get as big a leap now would take serious effort and I am probably too lazy!!
1
1
In reply to JSH:
im gonna be pretentious and post mine here!
grade 2 scramble - E4/5 6a in 2 months (head point that was)
E1 - E4 in a week for onsighting
f7a+ to f7c in a week
this was all beginners luck
im gonna be pretentious and post mine here!
grade 2 scramble - E4/5 6a in 2 months (head point that was)
E1 - E4 in a week for onsighting
f7a+ to f7c in a week
this was all beginners luck
Post edited at 20:52
3
19
In reply to JSH:
Why didn't you just tell us this in the opening post. That's obviously the whole point of the thread
Why didn't you just tell us this in the opening post. That's obviously the whole point of the thread
39
In reply to Mick Ward:
About e1 5b on an average day to e46a (once) on a perculiary good day! I suspect like most age 40+ climbers I am terrified of falling off so operate well inside what seems safe/possible.
About e1 5b on an average day to e46a (once) on a perculiary good day! I suspect like most age 40+ climbers I am terrified of falling off so operate well inside what seems safe/possible.
3
10
In reply to JSH:
Winter II to tech 5 in a weekend. Did my first grade III on day 1 (soloed) then lead a IV 5 the next day.
First 7a onsight swiftly followed by first 7a+ onsight about an hr later.
Winter II to tech 5 in a weekend. Did my first grade III on day 1 (soloed) then lead a IV 5 the next day.
First 7a onsight swiftly followed by first 7a+ onsight about an hr later.
1
In reply to rurp:
That's amazing. You must be very strong. I've always felt that going from F7b to F7b+/7c tends to be a bit of a stopper for many, as you tend to be hitting either English 6c or lots of 6b. But to go right up to F7b off one E4. Bloody hell! I'd done lots of E3s and several E4s, over the years, and still struggled to get from F6c to F7a. (Oddly, things seemed to get easier afterwards. I suppose I started to get my head round stuff.)
I'm probably 50% older and also struggle with falling due to 'old programming', i.e. early 1960s climbing with sod all pro and 50 years of soloing (so massively in your comfort zone). Bizarrely, the only time I'm not bothered about falling is redpointing at my limit (when I'm most likely!) - because then it's 'justified'. But if fear of falling is one of the big things holding me back, then sod it. Pay out that slack.
It sounds as though you have some serious talent.
Mick
That's amazing. You must be very strong. I've always felt that going from F7b to F7b+/7c tends to be a bit of a stopper for many, as you tend to be hitting either English 6c or lots of 6b. But to go right up to F7b off one E4. Bloody hell! I'd done lots of E3s and several E4s, over the years, and still struggled to get from F6c to F7a. (Oddly, things seemed to get easier afterwards. I suppose I started to get my head round stuff.)
I'm probably 50% older and also struggle with falling due to 'old programming', i.e. early 1960s climbing with sod all pro and 50 years of soloing (so massively in your comfort zone). Bizarrely, the only time I'm not bothered about falling is redpointing at my limit (when I'm most likely!) - because then it's 'justified'. But if fear of falling is one of the big things holding me back, then sod it. Pay out that slack.
It sounds as though you have some serious talent.
Mick
3
In reply to Mick Ward:
I went from e4 and french 7b outside to about e1 and 6c indoors. Took about 4 months of not climbing and an excess of consumption.
I went from e4 and french 7b outside to about e1 and 6c indoors. Took about 4 months of not climbing and an excess of consumption.
23
In reply to Kevster:
Indoor route climbing is ridiculously hard, I can't understand how it equates to outdoor grading at all. And I have been going pretty regularly recently, so I reckon I've got used to the style.
> I went from e4 and french 7b outside to about e1 and 6c indoors. Took about 4 months of not climbing and an excess of consumption.
Indoor route climbing is ridiculously hard, I can't understand how it equates to outdoor grading at all. And I have been going pretty regularly recently, so I reckon I've got used to the style.
1
In reply to Mick Ward:
It depends where you are though. I did the same as rurp and went from a best flash of 6c+ to a best flash of 7b/+ (which is actually the hardest I'd even RP'ed before) over a week on a coaching trip to Kalymnos. Great coaching, holiday grades and friendly bolting helped but actually a lot of it was that the moves on the routes in the 7s there just aren't that hard, especially compared to stuff at Malham or Kilnsey. The 7b I flashed on holiday only had a V3 crux, and it was well chalked and easy to read - worlds apart from trying to pull off some knacky shouldery gaston move with shit polished feet...
> I've always felt that going from F7b to F7b+/7c tends to be a bit of a stopper for many, as you tend to be hitting either English 6c or lots of 6b. But to go right up to F7b off one E4. Bloody hell! I'd done lots of E3s and several E4s, over the years, and still struggled to get from F6c to F7a.
It depends where you are though. I did the same as rurp and went from a best flash of 6c+ to a best flash of 7b/+ (which is actually the hardest I'd even RP'ed before) over a week on a coaching trip to Kalymnos. Great coaching, holiday grades and friendly bolting helped but actually a lot of it was that the moves on the routes in the 7s there just aren't that hard, especially compared to stuff at Malham or Kilnsey. The 7b I flashed on holiday only had a V3 crux, and it was well chalked and easy to read - worlds apart from trying to pull off some knacky shouldery gaston move with shit polished feet...
Post edited at 21:58
3
In reply to JSH:
font 6b-ish to font 7c in two and a half months. Still haven't been able to improve on that grade three years later!
font 6b-ish to font 7c in two and a half months. Still haven't been able to improve on that grade three years later!
In reply to Mick Ward:
He didn't specify, but based on his profile (which says best onsight 7a) this might be going from one E4 into sport redpointing (or even some sort of mix of the two, from onsight to redpoint).
I don't think I've ever made any terribly fast improvements - I guess I managed a couple of grades in a year a couple of times when sport climbing, when I've found specific weaknesses I could address (improving my redpointing tactics in one case, losing weight in another, actually getting base endurance fitness in a third), but in general I've been one of those slow steady grind sort of folk.
He didn't specify, but based on his profile (which says best onsight 7a) this might be going from one E4 into sport redpointing (or even some sort of mix of the two, from onsight to redpoint).
I don't think I've ever made any terribly fast improvements - I guess I managed a couple of grades in a year a couple of times when sport climbing, when I've found specific weaknesses I could address (improving my redpointing tactics in one case, losing weight in another, actually getting base endurance fitness in a third), but in general I've been one of those slow steady grind sort of folk.
In reply to AJM:
I think most of us are. Strength and technique are a long term battle, fitness comes and goes. The quick wins are usually removing mental blocks, the obvious one being fear of falling.
> in general I've been one of those slow steady grind sort of folk.
I think most of us are. Strength and technique are a long term battle, fitness comes and goes. The quick wins are usually removing mental blocks, the obvious one being fear of falling.
1
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Indoors is easier I find, for the grade stated by the walls. But that's me.
Indoors is easier I find, for the grade stated by the walls. But that's me.
In reply to JSH:
First climb was seconding a V Diff at Birchens. Later that day onsight soloed HVS 5a. Next day had a ground sweeper falling off after the crux leading an E2 6a and so was only allowed to second it next go due to my friends' concern.. Bastards. Managed to onsight solo E4 6b about 3 months later. Twenty years of committed partying then slowed my progress somewhat. 😊
First climb was seconding a V Diff at Birchens. Later that day onsight soloed HVS 5a. Next day had a ground sweeper falling off after the crux leading an E2 6a and so was only allowed to second it next go due to my friends' concern.. Bastards. Managed to onsight solo E4 6b about 3 months later. Twenty years of committed partying then slowed my progress somewhat. 😊
2
In reply to climbingpixie:
I suppose 'progression' here doesn't mean flashing the odd overgraded route. The test would be if you continued to flash some 7b's not just in Kalymnos but elsewhere too.
I suppose 'progression' here doesn't mean flashing the odd overgraded route. The test would be if you continued to flash some 7b's not just in Kalymnos but elsewhere too.
In reply to JSH:
From nothing (bailed on the approach) to Grade III to Grade VI in 4 days.
I had however climbed WI stuff and some mellow alpine mixed before.
From nothing (bailed on the approach) to Grade III to Grade VI in 4 days.
I had however climbed WI stuff and some mellow alpine mixed before.
In reply to JSH:
When I started in 2004, vdiff to HVS/E1 in just over a year.
When I took up sport climbing properly in 2010, best redpoint went from 6c to 7b/+ in 18 months (this also bumped my trad grade from E2 to E3 despite not doing much of it.)
From just bouldering in 2015, went from finding 7A+ to usually be a multi day project to being able to do some 7Bs in a session (some still take longer) across several rocktypes. (Less impressive on paper, but I'd been stagnated at 7A/+ for 5 years.)
In between the above, generally plateaued or improved slowly depending on keenness to train. Changes of approach and psyche at the above times made big differences.
When I started in 2004, vdiff to HVS/E1 in just over a year.
When I took up sport climbing properly in 2010, best redpoint went from 6c to 7b/+ in 18 months (this also bumped my trad grade from E2 to E3 despite not doing much of it.)
From just bouldering in 2015, went from finding 7A+ to usually be a multi day project to being able to do some 7Bs in a session (some still take longer) across several rocktypes. (Less impressive on paper, but I'd been stagnated at 7A/+ for 5 years.)
In between the above, generally plateaued or improved slowly depending on keenness to train. Changes of approach and psyche at the above times made big differences.
Post edited at 08:02
In reply to Si dH:
I got a lot better at sport, for sure, but I'm putting that down to the redpointing tactics. For trad, I guess I did a few HVSs before leaving uni and an E2 and a few E1s in the summer after, so I suppose so, although I made up for it with a massive plateau before properly breaking into E3...
I got a lot better at sport, for sure, but I'm putting that down to the redpointing tactics. For trad, I guess I did a few HVSs before leaving uni and an E2 and a few E1s in the summer after, so I suppose so, although I made up for it with a massive plateau before properly breaking into E3...
In reply to AJM:
Tell me about it!
It's humbling to think of someone like Simon Lee who puts so much work in.
Mick
> ...in general I've been one of those slow steady grind sort of folk.
Tell me about it!
It's humbling to think of someone like Simon Lee who puts so much work in.
Mick
In reply to adi bryant:
Do you encourage this approach among the school kids you teach to climb?
> First climb was seconding a V Diff at Birchens. Later that day onsight soloed HVS 5a. Next day had a ground sweeper falling off after the crux leading an E2 6a ...
Do you encourage this approach among the school kids you teach to climb?
In reply to stp:
Yeah it'll be interesting to see whether there's any carry over the next time I'm on a foreign sport trip, which will probably be Ceuse in June. I'd be delighted to flash 7a in France - a fair comparison as everything on Kaly felt about 2 grades overgraded.
Yeah it'll be interesting to see whether there's any carry over the next time I'm on a foreign sport trip, which will probably be Ceuse in June. I'd be delighted to flash 7a in France - a fair comparison as everything on Kaly felt about 2 grades overgraded.
1
In reply to Mick Ward:
Lucy Creamer and Jude Spancken. It was a women's coaching trip last year. I got huge amounts from it, mentally and physically - it made me better at climbing but also made me better at trying really hard at climbing.
Lucy Creamer and Jude Spancken. It was a women's coaching trip last year. I got huge amounts from it, mentally and physically - it made me better at climbing but also made me better at trying really hard at climbing.
In reply to JSH:
I went From E1 to E5 in a year in '83/'84 (E6 if I'm allowed to count the then overgraded Hall of Warriors). Havn't progressed since
I went From E1 to E5 in a year in '83/'84 (E6 if I'm allowed to count the then overgraded Hall of Warriors). Havn't progressed since
3
In reply to Robert Durran:
So what's the secret in going from E1 to E5 in a year? Mostly psychological, mostly physical, or both?
So what's the secret in going from E1 to E5 in a year? Mostly psychological, mostly physical, or both?
1
In reply to Coel Hellier:
Vastly underperforming initially, and then actually trying hard, applies to almost all such progressions, some people will acknowledge it too.
Vastly underperforming initially, and then actually trying hard, applies to almost all such progressions, some people will acknowledge it too.
Post edited at 12:12
5
1
In reply to JSH:
When I started climbing my 4th ever lead was VS 4c, then HVS a few leads after, but never managed an E1 until a year after that and then plateaued for ages.
My first real winter lead was grade IV followed by a handful more before leading 2 grade V's within days of each other then leading VII,7 a fortnight later having never led a VI.
When I started climbing my 4th ever lead was VS 4c, then HVS a few leads after, but never managed an E1 until a year after that and then plateaued for ages.
My first real winter lead was grade IV followed by a handful more before leading 2 grade V's within days of each other then leading VII,7 a fortnight later having never led a VI.
1
In reply to Coel Hellier:
Mainly being very, very psyched and having the fearlessness of youth to run in out despite being pumped. Finding routes which suited me (all the E5's I did then were Cromlech wall climbs). And probably, as Fiend suggests, underperforming previously.
> So what's the secret in going from E1 to E5 in a year? Mostly psychological, mostly physical, or both?
Mainly being very, very psyched and having the fearlessness of youth to run in out despite being pumped. Finding routes which suited me (all the E5's I did then were Cromlech wall climbs). And probably, as Fiend suggests, underperforming previously.
In reply to JSH:
I finished my job then went on a long trip to France and Spain. I'd done a couple 7a+s before I went, then at our first stop (Ceuse), I did my first 7b+ within a week or two of being there, then my first 7bs after that. 4 or so weeks into the trip we moved on to Rodellar where I did my first few 7cs, then I did my first 8a about 7 weeks into the trip (also in Rodellar - this took 4/5 days, the longest I've ever redpointed anything), then my first 7c+s after that in Rodellar, Margalef and Terradets.
When I got back to the UK I did my first E5 on my first day back trad climbing, and before the France/Spain trip I'd only ever done a couple E3s.
Still rubbish at bouldering outside though.
I finished my job then went on a long trip to France and Spain. I'd done a couple 7a+s before I went, then at our first stop (Ceuse), I did my first 7b+ within a week or two of being there, then my first 7bs after that. 4 or so weeks into the trip we moved on to Rodellar where I did my first few 7cs, then I did my first 8a about 7 weeks into the trip (also in Rodellar - this took 4/5 days, the longest I've ever redpointed anything), then my first 7c+s after that in Rodellar, Margalef and Terradets.
When I got back to the UK I did my first E5 on my first day back trad climbing, and before the France/Spain trip I'd only ever done a couple E3s.
Still rubbish at bouldering outside though.
3
In reply to Fiend:
Yep, definitely me. Still underperforming at trad too where its 'scarier' to try hard.
> Vastly underperforming initially, and then actually trying hard, applies to almost all such progressions, some people will acknowledge it too.
Yep, definitely me. Still underperforming at trad too where its 'scarier' to try hard.
1
In reply to stp:
It's hard to judge progression just by grades isn't it? In the past, I've felt my trad climbing progress, just by cruising some HVS's, rather than sketching up them. And the opposite too, progressing several grades in sport, but just by changing the game from onsighting to redpointing.
> I suppose 'progression' here doesn't mean flashing the odd overgraded route.
It's hard to judge progression just by grades isn't it? In the past, I've felt my trad climbing progress, just by cruising some HVS's, rather than sketching up them. And the opposite too, progressing several grades in sport, but just by changing the game from onsighting to redpointing.
In reply to JSH:
Was browsing the UKC Winter Conditions log and it struck me, that this youth seems to be making significant progress in 2016 on rock and mixed, especially given recent conditions in Wales
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlog.html?id=189485
Hats off to the lad for his modesty
Was browsing the UKC Winter Conditions log and it struck me, that this youth seems to be making significant progress in 2016 on rock and mixed, especially given recent conditions in Wales
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlog.html?id=189485
Hats off to the lad for his modesty
1
In reply to Coel Hellier:
You have the advantage of me sir, but from what I can tell from a quick search Mr.Viper is/was a legend of these parts?
You have the advantage of me sir, but from what I can tell from a quick search Mr.Viper is/was a legend of these parts?
In reply to JSH:
Had the best part of a year off climbing due to injury (having only once led harder than E1) and, on my first day outside, did a couple of severes then led an E2 onsight.
Still never led past E2. I must have natural talent that I'm really not exploiting, despite -ve ape index, being injury prone and now old age
Had the best part of a year off climbing due to injury (having only once led harder than E1) and, on my first day outside, did a couple of severes then led an E2 onsight.
Still never led past E2. I must have natural talent that I'm really not exploiting, despite -ve ape index, being injury prone and now old age
Post edited at 17:08
1
1
In reply to samwillo:
Oh, have I not mentioned it to you before? I must fill you in on the details when you get back from Spain...
Oh, have I not mentioned it to you before? I must fill you in on the details when you get back from Spain...
1
In reply to Fiend:
This sums up nicely why comparing rates of grade progression is pointless!
My fastest and biggest progression in climbing was done by jumping down a 10 m vertical face onto a gently curving snow pile....
CB
> Vastly underperforming initially, and then actually trying hard, applies to almost all such progressions, some people will acknowledge it too.
This sums up nicely why comparing rates of grade progression is pointless!
My fastest and biggest progression in climbing was done by jumping down a 10 m vertical face onto a gently curving snow pile....
CB
1
2
In reply to JSH:
Started falling off mild moderates and within a day I'd progressed to falling off E4's
Started falling off mild moderates and within a day I'd progressed to falling off E4's
4
In reply to Coel Hellier:
Well to properly honest my first rock climb was a V.diff then a VS then up from there! so about 9 grades!
Though at the time I did my halo I had only done 1 E5 and 1 E6.
It really depends what you count as progression!
and at that time I was very specialist at slate (couldn't climb E3 on other rock!) however I think I'm equally good at all thou I haven't head pointed anything since!
So to round it up I progressed upto E7 but stayed a [slate] E4 climber!
Well to properly honest my first rock climb was a V.diff then a VS then up from there! so about 9 grades!
Though at the time I did my halo I had only done 1 E5 and 1 E6.
It really depends what you count as progression!
and at that time I was very specialist at slate (couldn't climb E3 on other rock!) however I think I'm equally good at all thou I haven't head pointed anything since!
So to round it up I progressed upto E7 but stayed a [slate] E4 climber!
Post edited at 18:13
In reply to Mick Ward:
Fingers crossed and you too! I'm hoping that now I've experienced that feeling of being relaxed and climbing positively on a route, not focusing on success or failure but just on trying really hard on each move, then I'll be able to apply that to all my climbing this year
Fingers crossed and you too! I'm hoping that now I've experienced that feeling of being relaxed and climbing positively on a route, not focusing on success or failure but just on trying really hard on each move, then I'll be able to apply that to all my climbing this year
1
In reply to JSH:
Diff to Hard Severe in a day. But this was as I was starting climbing and perhaps not a true progression since I found the diffs/v-diffs/severes easy. Since then it's never been that quick!
Diff to Hard Severe in a day. But this was as I was starting climbing and perhaps not a true progression since I found the diffs/v-diffs/severes easy. Since then it's never been that quick!
1
In reply to Steve Perry:
No that's impressive!
No that's impressive!
In reply to JSH:
E1-E4 in 4-5ish weeks this summer. Important to note that I climb entirely indoors unless I'm on a trip, so the progression was entirely technique/headgame/route-reading etc.
E1-E4 in 4-5ish weeks this summer. Important to note that I climb entirely indoors unless I'm on a trip, so the progression was entirely technique/headgame/route-reading etc.
2
In reply to JSH:
VS 4b to E2 5c in about 5 mins. Inability to follow a guide book route description!
VS 4b to E2 5c in about 5 mins. Inability to follow a guide book route description!
7
In reply to Fiend:
That makes me feel better about never having made any particular rapid progressions. Progress for me has always been about doing a bunch of routes at a certain grade on different rock types before moving up to the next grade. Getting stronger and improving technique are things that take time so your comment makes perfect sense.
A lot of this seems more like finding out one's ability at a certain time. If you train all Winter and then start climbing in the Spring and quickly move up a grade or so higher than before you haven't really progressed instantly. The progression should include all the months you spent training.
> Vastly underperforming initially, and then actually trying hard, applies to almost all such progressions, some people will acknowledge it too.
That makes me feel better about never having made any particular rapid progressions. Progress for me has always been about doing a bunch of routes at a certain grade on different rock types before moving up to the next grade. Getting stronger and improving technique are things that take time so your comment makes perfect sense.
A lot of this seems more like finding out one's ability at a certain time. If you train all Winter and then start climbing in the Spring and quickly move up a grade or so higher than before you haven't really progressed instantly. The progression should include all the months you spent training.
1
In reply to stp:
+1
I too have never made any particularly rapid progression, but built up a solid foundation at one grade across a wide variety of routes, styles and rock types, before moving up to the next grade.
I also have always had a zero boredom threshold for working routes, which has probably contributed to my lack of progression beyond a certain point.
And whilst it might not be dynamic, I'm sure it's the reason my climbing has been pretty consistent over the years - even after long lay offs my grades haven't dropped that much - and even now as I approach 60, and don't get out on a particularly regular basis, I can still get up E4/5 trad and 7a sport reasonably well, and provided I've got a young turk on the other end of the rope, still drag myself up an ED1 in the alps.
> That makes me feel better about never having made any particular rapid progressions. Progress for me has always been about doing a bunch of routes at a certain grade on different rock types before moving up to the next grade. Getting stronger and improving technique are things that take time so your comment makes perfect sense.
+1
I too have never made any particularly rapid progression, but built up a solid foundation at one grade across a wide variety of routes, styles and rock types, before moving up to the next grade.
I also have always had a zero boredom threshold for working routes, which has probably contributed to my lack of progression beyond a certain point.
And whilst it might not be dynamic, I'm sure it's the reason my climbing has been pretty consistent over the years - even after long lay offs my grades haven't dropped that much - and even now as I approach 60, and don't get out on a particularly regular basis, I can still get up E4/5 trad and 7a sport reasonably well, and provided I've got a young turk on the other end of the rope, still drag myself up an ED1 in the alps.
1
In reply to JSH:
Oh,
My most rapid progression was from a f7b line to nothing for 3 months... Thanks to 3 fully ruptured pulleys...
Oh,
My most rapid progression was from a f7b line to nothing for 3 months... Thanks to 3 fully ruptured pulleys...
1
In reply to HeMa:
I used to train at home with grippers and many fingertip pullups,with a photo of Syrett trying Goblin's Eyes at Almscliffe.
Seemed to work.I went from English 6c to English 7a in one day,climbing with Andy Barker at Stoney.I had been running a lot,about 30 miles a week. he and I used to keep an open mind as to what is possible.Along the Dawes line of approach,we'd often try what looked impossible.You get stronger by trying something that looks way too hard.
I used to train at home with grippers and many fingertip pullups,with a photo of Syrett trying Goblin's Eyes at Almscliffe.
Seemed to work.I went from English 6c to English 7a in one day,climbing with Andy Barker at Stoney.I had been running a lot,about 30 miles a week. he and I used to keep an open mind as to what is possible.Along the Dawes line of approach,we'd often try what looked impossible.You get stronger by trying something that looks way too hard.
3
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...