UKC

VIDEO: UKC & Plas-y-Brenin: #8 Karabiners

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 UKC Articles 04 Jan 2016
Instructional Videos 8 - Karabiners, 4 kbIn a new series on UKClimbing, we have teamed up with Plas-y-Brenin, the National Mountain Sports Centre, to cover a wide range of basic climbing techniques.. We will be explaining everything from putting on harnesses and tying figure of eights, to building belays and leading.

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 murilolessa 04 Jan 2016
In reply to UKC Articles:

Hmmm... I read a lot about how having opposing carabiners on a quickdraw is not recommended due to the fact that the one clipped to the bold can open in such scenario so I wonder where people stand with this?
 Martin Hore 04 Jan 2016
In reply to UKC Articles:

These videos have been of varying quality. Some have been very good but this one again is a bit disappointing. I'd have expected better from PyB, although I appreciate these come free and unencumbered by adverts.

On more than one occasion what is being described is out of shot - most obviously when the screwgate krab is (not) shown resisting opening against a sharp angle of rock. The advantage of the HMS style krab is described in words, but it would have been better, especially for novices, to have cut away at that point to a shot of the krab loaded with a couple of clove hitches to illustrate the point. The reason why trad quickdraws can be less robust was explained adequately for a reasonably experienced listener, but the key point that trad climbers fall off less was not clearly made. And there was no explanation why the trad draw is longer, though that was perhaps out of scope of this video.

This is a potentially really useful series of videos, sometimes let down by less than careful production standards I fear.

Interested to see what comes next in the series.

Martin


 Martin Hore 04 Jan 2016
In reply to Martin Hore:

One further point (what's happened to the "edit" facility by the way?) - There's an implication towards the end of the video that sport climbers don't normally carry their quick draws. Otherwise why is it stated that they would be less concerned about the weight? I fear the subtleties of this point would be rather wasted on the intended audience without a fuller explanation.

Martin
 Sharp 05 Jan 2016
In reply to murilolessa:

Not sure what you mean, it's unlikely the one clipped to the bolt would open under any circumstances. Do you mean the difference between <...>---<``> and <...>---<...> and the importance of orientating the rope through the bottom carabiner to avoid it running over the gate in a fall (apologies for bad asci)? If so then I've only ever heard people say it's personal preference. The orientation of the lower (rope) carabiner can be altered by clipping the gear or bolt in the opposite direction regardless of whether your carabiners are opposing or facing the same way.
 Sharp 05 Jan 2016
In reply to Martin Hore:

I would have thought the QD's weight is less important in sport because you aren't carrying a full rack of gear as well. He does mention that you might have 14 for trad so the weight isn't important for sport, I guess impying that you don't need as many. I'm not a sport climber so not sure if that's true or not but if it's single pitch then on trad you need QD's to cover 60m and sport you only need QD's to cover 30m so it would make sense to carry less.

Agree'd the editing is a little odd. Presumably they're climbing instructors and not film directors but if that's the case make life easy and leave it zoomed out and let the presenter bring things to the camera if you need a close up.
 andrewmc 05 Jan 2016
In reply to Sharp:
There is an argument that gates facing the same way is safer.

Suppose you have gates facing opposite directions. Suppose you are climbing to the right of bolts. You clip your quickdraw into the bolt towards you so that the bottom gate faces left (while the top gate faces right). This is so that (correctly as you say) the rope will not run over the gate in a fall. But as you move up, the quickdraw can be pulled up behind you. This tends to rotate the quickdraw anti-clockwise around the bolt. In the case of opposite-facing gates, you now have the top carabiner gate potentially passing into the bolt hanger. Certain orientations like this, on some bolts, can lead to the gate hanging up on the bolt hanger and unclipping if suddenly loaded. You are usually better off with same-facing gates, as now the gate now doesn't enter the bolt hanger.

Apparently there are also bolts where the opposite is true but these are rarer?

Not quite the same thing but shows how quickdraws can unclip (look at the bit right at the end!):
http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/carabiner-and-bolt-interaction-vid/
Post edited at 11:26
In reply to andrewmcleod:

> There is an argument that gates facing the same way is safer.

I agree. I have had this conversation with quite a few friends who have their crabs on quick draws facing in opposite directions. Ben Bransby explains why it is safer to have both gates facing in the same direction in this video:

http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/clipping-bolts-vid-part-1/



 andrewmc 06 Jan 2016
In reply to Christheclimber:

I was thinking more this kind of thing (imagine these were quickdraws not caving cowstails but the mechanism is the same):

http://caves.org/section/vertical/nh/50/anchwarn.html

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