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Does anyone have experience with installing a wood burning stove in an airtight/mechanically ventilated house?
Does your stove have an independent direct air supply or does it draw air from the room?
Does it work well or was it an expensive mistake?(!)
Any other comments?
Thanks
Does your stove have an independent direct air supply or does it draw air from the room?
Does it work well or was it an expensive mistake?(!)
Any other comments?
Thanks
1
In reply to jon:
In a similar vein. I have a wood burner in a very leaky house. As it burns it draws cold air in from outside and over our stone floors and up the chimney.
Would fitting a direct air supply to the stove reduce this effect and make it more efficient at heating the house.
Sorry for the hi jack.
In a similar vein. I have a wood burner in a very leaky house. As it burns it draws cold air in from outside and over our stone floors and up the chimney.
Would fitting a direct air supply to the stove reduce this effect and make it more efficient at heating the house.
Sorry for the hi jack.
In reply to jon:
You can get stoves with an external air feed. Seems like a good idea if you're anticipating a possible problem and it'll save problems down the line with unexpected sources of pressure-drop/ventilation like the tumble drier. External air feed makes sense anyway from a heating perspective, there's no point drawing cold air into the room just to feed a fire or air the chimney.
I wanted one with external air feed but ultimately couldn't get the right size/shape/certification + that feature but then even when it's finished I'm sure my old house won't be up to modern airtightness standards.
jk
You can get stoves with an external air feed. Seems like a good idea if you're anticipating a possible problem and it'll save problems down the line with unexpected sources of pressure-drop/ventilation like the tumble drier. External air feed makes sense anyway from a heating perspective, there's no point drawing cold air into the room just to feed a fire or air the chimney.
I wanted one with external air feed but ultimately couldn't get the right size/shape/certification + that feature but then even when it's finished I'm sure my old house won't be up to modern airtightness standards.
jk
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In reply to jon:
We have two identical stoves in identical rooms with identical chimneys which mirror each other on both sides of the roof. Both have identical vents the same distance away on the same wall. The house is pretty airtight and the doors fit well. Mrs RR doesn't normally complain of drafts unless somebody leaves the lounge door open and warm air from the room heads off upstairs bringing a draft of replacement cool air in the door but from the lack of complaints I'm pretty sure the vents do a good job in feeding fresh air to the stoves rather than the air being pulled in from windows and under doors.
Curiously despite the 100% symmetry, the stove in the back draws much better than the stove in the front. The only difference is the prevailing wind over the roof.
We also have a gas Aga in the kitchen and are wary of using the very powerful kitchen extractor with the kitchen doors closed as Aga flues are open at the bottom and exhaust gases could be drawn into the room. You can feel how airtight the rooms are if you push a door shut fast and there's a momentary "chuff" of depression in the room.
We have two identical stoves in identical rooms with identical chimneys which mirror each other on both sides of the roof. Both have identical vents the same distance away on the same wall. The house is pretty airtight and the doors fit well. Mrs RR doesn't normally complain of drafts unless somebody leaves the lounge door open and warm air from the room heads off upstairs bringing a draft of replacement cool air in the door but from the lack of complaints I'm pretty sure the vents do a good job in feeding fresh air to the stoves rather than the air being pulled in from windows and under doors.
Curiously despite the 100% symmetry, the stove in the back draws much better than the stove in the front. The only difference is the prevailing wind over the roof.
We also have a gas Aga in the kitchen and are wary of using the very powerful kitchen extractor with the kitchen doors closed as Aga flues are open at the bottom and exhaust gases could be drawn into the room. You can feel how airtight the rooms are if you push a door shut fast and there's a momentary "chuff" of depression in the room.
Post edited at 15:58
In reply to jon:
My house is super insulated but the previous owner fitted a log burner.
It works well and draws air from the room but I rarely use it as the house is too hot already! A builder recently commented to me about "all the trendy folk who want log burners fitted" in new builds although the house is already highly efficient
It looks nice though....
My house is super insulated but the previous owner fitted a log burner.
It works well and draws air from the room but I rarely use it as the house is too hot already! A builder recently commented to me about "all the trendy folk who want log burners fitted" in new builds although the house is already highly efficient
It looks nice though....
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In reply to jon:
I'm curious as to why you would do that, do you just like the aesthetics or do you need the heat?
Presumably without changes you will just get an imbalance on the in/out sides of the ventilation system.
I'm curious as to why you would do that, do you just like the aesthetics or do you need the heat?
Presumably without changes you will just get an imbalance on the in/out sides of the ventilation system.
In reply to jon:
A woodburner or a multifuel heats a room well, looks superb, gives focus to the room and draws huge amounts of air out of the house, meaning you never feel stuffy or damp no matter how warm it gets in the room.
Puddleducks, a popular cyclists' and walkers' cafe in Dunsop Bridge used to be terribly damp, the floors sopping and the windows running with condensation, all coming from wet clothes and sweaty bodies. When the proprietor fitted a woodburner the place was transformed and became warm, dry and comfortable.
A woodburner or a multifuel heats a room well, looks superb, gives focus to the room and draws huge amounts of air out of the house, meaning you never feel stuffy or damp no matter how warm it gets in the room.
Puddleducks, a popular cyclists' and walkers' cafe in Dunsop Bridge used to be terribly damp, the floors sopping and the windows running with condensation, all coming from wet clothes and sweaty bodies. When the proprietor fitted a woodburner the place was transformed and became warm, dry and comfortable.
Post edited at 16:21
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In reply to Rigid Raider:
Yeah, I know, we have them at home. But so does (should) a mechanically ventilated house with a heat exchanger. Hence my question.
> A woodburner or a multifuel heats a room well, looks superb, gives focus to the room and draws huge amounts of air out of the house, meaning you never feel stuffy or damp no matter how warm it gets in the room.
Yeah, I know, we have them at home. But so does (should) a mechanically ventilated house with a heat exchanger. Hence my question.
Post edited at 16:29
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Agreed, but in an airtight house (are they called passive houses these days?) what would actually happen is the fire would consume all the oxygen in the house and then die, as would those living inside? Hence the question I guess. Or have I missed something?
> Puddleducks, a popular cyclists' and walkers' cafe in Dunsop Bridge used to be terribly damp, the floors sopping and the windows running with condensation, all coming from wet clothes and sweaty bodies. When the proprietor fitted a woodburner the place was transformed and became warm, dry and comfortable.
Agreed, but in an airtight house (are they called passive houses these days?) what would actually happen is the fire would consume all the oxygen in the house and then die, as would those living inside? Hence the question I guess. Or have I missed something?
In reply to jon:
I haven't done it myself.
Is it just mechanical ventilation or an MVHR system? Depending on the system you could set it up so the ventilation level could change when you needed it to. An independent air supply sounds like the easiest way though.
I assume you've considered how easy it would be to overheat.
I haven't done it myself.
Is it just mechanical ventilation or an MVHR system? Depending on the system you could set it up so the ventilation level could change when you needed it to. An independent air supply sounds like the easiest way though.
I assume you've considered how easy it would be to overheat.
In reply to Babika:
That's me, although in some small defence I have a long house and the lounge where I fitted it is somewhat stuck out with about 8m2 windows on two aspects so it does get quite chilly.
Its always good practice to have the vents on the windows open at all times though.
> My house is super insulated but the previous owner fitted a log burner.
> It works well and draws air from the room but I rarely use it as the house is too hot already! A builder recently commented to me about "all the trendy folk who want log burners fitted" in new builds although the house is already highly efficient
> It looks nice though....
That's me, although in some small defence I have a long house and the lounge where I fitted it is somewhat stuck out with about 8m2 windows on two aspects so it does get quite chilly.
Its always good practice to have the vents on the windows open at all times though.
In reply to petellis:
No, I'm pretty sure we won't really need the heat, it's partly the aesthetics, partly that that's how we've heated for the last 25 years (but in an old house) and partly that, due to regulations as it's new build, the house has to have a chimney and is already prepared for some sort of stove. However it's not prepared with a duct for a direct air supply from outside. With the mechanical ventilation producing a permanent slight negative pressure I can just foresee a room full of smoke with a normal stove!
> I'm curious as to why you would do that, do you just like the aesthetics or do you need the heat?
No, I'm pretty sure we won't really need the heat, it's partly the aesthetics, partly that that's how we've heated for the last 25 years (but in an old house) and partly that, due to regulations as it's new build, the house has to have a chimney and is already prepared for some sort of stove. However it's not prepared with a duct for a direct air supply from outside. With the mechanical ventilation producing a permanent slight negative pressure I can just foresee a room full of smoke with a normal stove!
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In reply to ad111:
It's just mechanical ventilation in any room with water - kitchen/living, bathrooms and toilet. There is an air/air heat pump to provide heating but we don't like the noise. Also u/f heating in parts of the house (so we don't have to use the heat pump). I should explain that the heat pump was inflicted on us by the building company so the house would comply with the regulations (this is not in the UK). So with the inertia of an u/f heating in mind, a wood stove wood produce an almost immediate heat in say the spring or autumn when the heating is generally off.
Sadly I don't think it's that sophisticated.
Yes, I have!
> Is it just mechanical ventilation or an MVHR system?
It's just mechanical ventilation in any room with water - kitchen/living, bathrooms and toilet. There is an air/air heat pump to provide heating but we don't like the noise. Also u/f heating in parts of the house (so we don't have to use the heat pump). I should explain that the heat pump was inflicted on us by the building company so the house would comply with the regulations (this is not in the UK). So with the inertia of an u/f heating in mind, a wood stove wood produce an almost immediate heat in say the spring or autumn when the heating is generally off.
> Depending on the system you could set it up so the ventilation level could change when you needed it to.
Sadly I don't think it's that sophisticated.
> I assume you've considered how easy it would be to overheat.
Yes, I have!
In reply to jon:
Wood burners with underfloor heating have the unfortunate side-effect of stripping the warmed air straight off the floor and blasting it up the chimney. BUT in a modern European house where a chimney has to be provided by the building regs it would normally have to be a double-flue chimney (at least here in Germany) where one flue is exhaust gas and the other a pre-warmed air supply. I´d check the chimney first since most built-in ones are made this way anyway, either two flues or concentric warmed air. One of mine is the concentric sort, square concrete blocks with a ceramic liner, between the two is insulation and air passages, as a passive installation there is an air grill to let air into the bottom of the insulation channels from outside to prevent condensation and in the active mode the air is sucked down the passages, warmed and fed into the fire.
The 2012 regs in France are quite strict, I find it hard to believe you can just bung a woodburner in any old how!
Wood burners with underfloor heating have the unfortunate side-effect of stripping the warmed air straight off the floor and blasting it up the chimney. BUT in a modern European house where a chimney has to be provided by the building regs it would normally have to be a double-flue chimney (at least here in Germany) where one flue is exhaust gas and the other a pre-warmed air supply. I´d check the chimney first since most built-in ones are made this way anyway, either two flues or concentric warmed air. One of mine is the concentric sort, square concrete blocks with a ceramic liner, between the two is insulation and air passages, as a passive installation there is an air grill to let air into the bottom of the insulation channels from outside to prevent condensation and in the active mode the air is sucked down the passages, warmed and fed into the fire.
The 2012 regs in France are quite strict, I find it hard to believe you can just bung a woodburner in any old how!
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In reply to jon:
I've a neighbour who is almost completely self-sufficient in energy (total bills were £75 last year) and whose house is massively efficient. Unfortunately because they never open windows or ventilate the house it's unpleasantly humid and stale-smelling inside.
I'll stick with a good hot stove and plenty of air exchange.
I've a neighbour who is almost completely self-sufficient in energy (total bills were £75 last year) and whose house is massively efficient. Unfortunately because they never open windows or ventilate the house it's unpleasantly humid and stale-smelling inside.
I'll stick with a good hot stove and plenty of air exchange.
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In reply to jon:
Sounds like you have a bit of a poor compromise already.
Maybe if you just switch the mechanical ventilation off whilst you have a fire burning you will loose the net negative pressure and what goes up the chimney will just bypass the fans? In effect you will swap mechanical ventilation for a chimney flue(with the side effect that you are going to feed it air from the top of the rooms, i.e. the warmest part)? I think you would have to do this anyway or the system will go nuts and your fire won't draw anyway!
Or why not try to make the system you have work properly/quietly first? The mechanically ventilated flat I lived in a while ago was a joy, it was quiet, dry/fresh and the correct temperature at all times. I completely forgot about the process of heating/cooling/thermostats etc.
Final option, if there is a chimney in anyway: fit a flue-liner in the vein of the one Jimtitt talks about.
It sounds like its a case of old habits die hard and you really fancy a fire in your house, which is understandable.
Sounds like you have a bit of a poor compromise already.
Maybe if you just switch the mechanical ventilation off whilst you have a fire burning you will loose the net negative pressure and what goes up the chimney will just bypass the fans? In effect you will swap mechanical ventilation for a chimney flue(with the side effect that you are going to feed it air from the top of the rooms, i.e. the warmest part)? I think you would have to do this anyway or the system will go nuts and your fire won't draw anyway!
Or why not try to make the system you have work properly/quietly first? The mechanically ventilated flat I lived in a while ago was a joy, it was quiet, dry/fresh and the correct temperature at all times. I completely forgot about the process of heating/cooling/thermostats etc.
Final option, if there is a chimney in anyway: fit a flue-liner in the vein of the one Jimtitt talks about.
It sounds like its a case of old habits die hard and you really fancy a fire in your house, which is understandable.
Post edited at 09:05
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In reply to jon: All 'open' combustion units, like wood stoves, gas effect fires, gas fires etc need an air supply. I can't remember the size of the required inlet. Your local building regs department will be able to give you the exact figures. It varies depending on the output of the unit.
Restricted air supply causes production of carbon monoxide which is toxic.
There are some woodstoves with an independent external air supply so they do not draw from the room, but they will be closed units. As said earlier consult with building regulations people.
Restricted air supply causes production of carbon monoxide which is toxic.
There are some woodstoves with an independent external air supply so they do not draw from the room, but they will be closed units. As said earlier consult with building regulations people.
In reply to George Fisher: Operate the unit with the doors closed (hopefully they are tight fitting for better control) That will reduce the amount of air drawn in to a minimum and let you feel the benefit. That was the initial idea of closed stoves. (Remember old grannies who used to sit near the open fire, with red blotchy shins and purple backs to their legs where the open fire was pulling in massive amounts of cold air from outside!)
In reply to jkarran:
A stove with an external air source will work perfectly in a passive house. It's a good idea to bring air, where possible from beneath suspended timber floors to assist ventilation of these areas.
HETAS website will have a list of suitable appliances.
A stove with an external air source will work perfectly in a passive house. It's a good idea to bring air, where possible from beneath suspended timber floors to assist ventilation of these areas.
HETAS website will have a list of suitable appliances.
In reply to jon:
Sounds like you enjoy a fire, but it is just not suited to your house. We have an old wooden house, with most walls now very well insulated and windows much better than they were. But are leaving the old doors as they allow a little air through. Our wood stove runs for a few hours everyday in winter. I let it go out a few hours ago, still about 18 or 19 inside, despite it being down to about -20 last night and around -10 now. I think we strike the balance well as ventilation is critical in wooden house.
I think you have to go the full hog, underfloor external vent to stove, or just not bother.
Sounds like you enjoy a fire, but it is just not suited to your house. We have an old wooden house, with most walls now very well insulated and windows much better than they were. But are leaving the old doors as they allow a little air through. Our wood stove runs for a few hours everyday in winter. I let it go out a few hours ago, still about 18 or 19 inside, despite it being down to about -20 last night and around -10 now. I think we strike the balance well as ventilation is critical in wooden house.
I think you have to go the full hog, underfloor external vent to stove, or just not bother.
In reply to jon:
Your question is explained quite well here: http://www.stovefittersmanual.co.uk/articles/do-i-need-an-air-vent-for-a-wo...
We are getting a wood burner fitted next week and our installer has said he will test the worse case scenario regarding air supply when commissioning which for us is having the door open to the kitchen and the kitchen extractor on. I don't think there will be a problem though as house was built in the 60's and has a few subtle drafts.
Your question is explained quite well here: http://www.stovefittersmanual.co.uk/articles/do-i-need-an-air-vent-for-a-wo...
We are getting a wood burner fitted next week and our installer has said he will test the worse case scenario regarding air supply when commissioning which for us is having the door open to the kitchen and the kitchen extractor on. I don't think there will be a problem though as house was built in the 60's and has a few subtle drafts.
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In reply to Rigid Raider:
A number of the original Passivhaus developments are manifesting just that problem and are actually starting to rot. They are so well sealed they lack the natural fresh air circulation which helps prevent this from occurring. Reports have been in the construction press within the past few years.
> I've a neighbour who is almost completely self-sufficient in energy (total bills were £75 last year) and whose house is massively efficient. Unfortunately because they never open windows or ventilate the house it's unpleasantly humid and stale-smelling inside.
A number of the original Passivhaus developments are manifesting just that problem and are actually starting to rot. They are so well sealed they lack the natural fresh air circulation which helps prevent this from occurring. Reports have been in the construction press within the past few years.
In reply to jon:
Thanks all, here's a rather unsatisfactory update. During a meeting with the project manager two days ago I brought up this subject.
Me: There doesn't seem to be any air supply for a wood stove. I told you that we'd install one, just not right away.
Him: But you didn't say where it'd go.
Me: You provided a chimney flue conforming with regulations and also an area of heat resisitant plaster board, both on the centre line of the room. Is it not conceivable that that's where we'd put the stove?
Him: Maybe, maybe not. The stove installer can make a hole in the floor. (Gallic shrug...)
As we've already taken posession of the house we're not in a very strong position. So it's a bit of a stalemate at the moment. I guess bashing a hole in the floor isn't that difficult - just mustn't hit anything important...
Thanks all, here's a rather unsatisfactory update. During a meeting with the project manager two days ago I brought up this subject.
Me: There doesn't seem to be any air supply for a wood stove. I told you that we'd install one, just not right away.
Him: But you didn't say where it'd go.
Me: You provided a chimney flue conforming with regulations and also an area of heat resisitant plaster board, both on the centre line of the room. Is it not conceivable that that's where we'd put the stove?
Him: Maybe, maybe not. The stove installer can make a hole in the floor. (Gallic shrug...)
As we've already taken posession of the house we're not in a very strong position. So it's a bit of a stalemate at the moment. I guess bashing a hole in the floor isn't that difficult - just mustn't hit anything important...
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In reply to aln:
There's airtight and then there's airtight. I reckon you could live in a relatively airtight shed 5 meters on a side and 2 meters tall, just so long as sufficient air leaked in/out to fully exchange the air without the outside once a day. (I don't trust my estimates enough to volunteer for an experiment though!).
Older houses will fully exchange their internal volume of air with the outside world in perhaps half an hour to so, where as I think a modern "passive" house is more on the order of a day, like my hypothetical shed. Unlike my shed it probably has balanced flow (in and out) heat exchanging ventilation to control humidity and air freshness. None of which is enough for a stove which will be consuming 100s of times more than a person.
> How can a house be airtight? Wouldn't the occupants die?
There's airtight and then there's airtight. I reckon you could live in a relatively airtight shed 5 meters on a side and 2 meters tall, just so long as sufficient air leaked in/out to fully exchange the air without the outside once a day. (I don't trust my estimates enough to volunteer for an experiment though!).
Older houses will fully exchange their internal volume of air with the outside world in perhaps half an hour to so, where as I think a modern "passive" house is more on the order of a day, like my hypothetical shed. Unlike my shed it probably has balanced flow (in and out) heat exchanging ventilation to control humidity and air freshness. None of which is enough for a stove which will be consuming 100s of times more than a person.
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In reply to jon:
I have a wood burner in one room which has the facility for an air inlet underneath which can be attached to a pipe passing through an external wall to bring fresh air in. I didn't install the pipe, as we live in a relatively draughty old cottage. We also have a Baxi open fire in another room, again which draws air in via a pipe through a wall underneath the grate, controlled by a mechanical butterfly valve.
I don't think separately supplied solid fuel fires are difficult to source, however it does assume a pipe run through an external wall. Btw. UK building regs require additional ventilation supplies to be provided for all fires above 5kW in addition to the calculated base ventilation supply. Don't suppose this applies in the land of the Gallic Shrug....
I have a wood burner in one room which has the facility for an air inlet underneath which can be attached to a pipe passing through an external wall to bring fresh air in. I didn't install the pipe, as we live in a relatively draughty old cottage. We also have a Baxi open fire in another room, again which draws air in via a pipe through a wall underneath the grate, controlled by a mechanical butterfly valve.
I don't think separately supplied solid fuel fires are difficult to source, however it does assume a pipe run through an external wall. Btw. UK building regs require additional ventilation supplies to be provided for all fires above 5kW in addition to the calculated base ventilation supply. Don't suppose this applies in the land of the Gallic Shrug....
In reply to aln:
In theory, of course. But airtight doesn't really mean airtight - more a degree of airtightness. The house is tested by closing all doors windows and vents, then replacing one outside door with a membrane with a powerful extraction fan in it. The air is sucked out of the house until a predetermined negative pressure is attained. They then turn off the fan and record how long it takes the house to return to a normal atmospheric pressure. I can't remember how the result is expressed but it must be something like so many M3 per second? So really it means that the house is 'more' airtight than an older house. However, this means that it has to be mechanically ventilated. Which is where the problem with the wood stove arises.
In theory, of course. But airtight doesn't really mean airtight - more a degree of airtightness. The house is tested by closing all doors windows and vents, then replacing one outside door with a membrane with a powerful extraction fan in it. The air is sucked out of the house until a predetermined negative pressure is attained. They then turn off the fan and record how long it takes the house to return to a normal atmospheric pressure. I can't remember how the result is expressed but it must be something like so many M3 per second? So really it means that the house is 'more' airtight than an older house. However, this means that it has to be mechanically ventilated. Which is where the problem with the wood stove arises.
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
That's interesting - it might well do here - I'll find out. Thanks.
> Btw. UK building regs require additional ventilation supplies to be provided for all fires above 5kW in addition to the calculated base ventilation supply. Don't suppose this applies in the land of the Gallic Shrug....
That's interesting - it might well do here - I'll find out. Thanks.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Why on earth would someone 'dislike' this post.
(I know this topic has been covered elsewhere recently - I wonder how many dislikes my post gets!).
Is 'Puddleducks' some form of offensive comment my extensive vocabulary of swear words I learnt at school did not include?
> A woodburner or a multifuel heats a room well, looks superb, gives focus to the room and draws huge amounts of air out of the house, meaning you never feel stuffy or damp no matter how warm it gets in the room.
> Puddleducks, a popular cyclists' and walkers' cafe in Dunsop Bridge used to be terribly damp, the floors sopping and the windows running with condensation, all coming from wet clothes and sweaty bodies. When the proprietor fitted a woodburner the place was transformed and became warm, dry and comfortable.
Why on earth would someone 'dislike' this post.
(I know this topic has been covered elsewhere recently - I wonder how many dislikes my post gets!).
Is 'Puddleducks' some form of offensive comment my extensive vocabulary of swear words I learnt at school did not include?
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In reply to jon:
Up here in the land of the Deep Fried Marsbar we have to have a vent behind the stove to the outside.(Building regs)
There is a vent behind the stove at the extension I've just done ,and I know its a 'hot' topic of discussion between client and installer atm .re stove performance.
I would imagine one of the other reasons for having a vent is to help neutralise (any) CO emissions in the room /house.
I would have a few CO detectors dotted round the house,although allegedly twin wall flues are bulletproof.
Only weak points (potentially) are stove/flue connection , register plate /flue adapter connection ,where you rely on fire cement .And I suppose, the stove door.
Up here in the land of the Deep Fried Marsbar we have to have a vent behind the stove to the outside.(Building regs)
There is a vent behind the stove at the extension I've just done ,and I know its a 'hot' topic of discussion between client and installer atm .re stove performance.
I would imagine one of the other reasons for having a vent is to help neutralise (any) CO emissions in the room /house.
I would have a few CO detectors dotted round the house,although allegedly twin wall flues are bulletproof.
Only weak points (potentially) are stove/flue connection , register plate /flue adapter connection ,where you rely on fire cement .And I suppose, the stove door.
Post edited at 10:04
In reply to jon:
I can't remember how the result is expressed but it must be something like so many M3 per second?
Spot on. The airloss figure is given as m^3/hour/m^2 of floor area. Regs in Scotland I think have 10 as default requirement, some clients aim for 5 depending on their BREEAM target. I've worked on jobs which have achieved 1-2. (Sometimes that's just because they're a big blank box or shell with very few openings!) To my mind, it's all a bit hypothetical as I much prefer opening windows to ventilate the space I'm in, rather than using mechanical means.
I can't remember how the result is expressed but it must be something like so many M3 per second?
Spot on. The airloss figure is given as m^3/hour/m^2 of floor area. Regs in Scotland I think have 10 as default requirement, some clients aim for 5 depending on their BREEAM target. I've worked on jobs which have achieved 1-2. (Sometimes that's just because they're a big blank box or shell with very few openings!) To my mind, it's all a bit hypothetical as I much prefer opening windows to ventilate the space I'm in, rather than using mechanical means.
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In reply to jon:
The myth is that you cannot install a wood burner yourself, you do not require a Hetas engineer, ask Hetas themselves 01684 27
In England and Wales installation work relating to domestic solid fuel, wood and biomass and the associated systems for heating, controls and hot water are subject to Building Regulations. The Approved Documents F, J, L, G, P are applicable and most work is notifiable to the relevant Local Authority. The information notified to them is required for household insurance and the future sale of properties. Where work is carried out by a HETAS Registered Installer, who is registered for the category of work being done, the installer can self-certificate their work via HETAS rather than the customer applying for a Building Notice from their Local Authority8170
http://www.hetas.co.uk/consumer/regulations/
If you want to sell your house just remove the stove and if you burn your house down don't bother ringing your insurance company. As an aside some insurance companies will bump your house insurance up by as much as £400 a year.
As for an exterior ventilated stove, if your underfloor space is well ventilated you can take/duct the air from there. Works well.
Biggest problem would be if you have extractor fans in the kitchen or bathroom.
Otherwise a wood burning stove saves money and keeps your coffee hot.
The myth is that you cannot install a wood burner yourself, you do not require a Hetas engineer, ask Hetas themselves 01684 27
In England and Wales installation work relating to domestic solid fuel, wood and biomass and the associated systems for heating, controls and hot water are subject to Building Regulations. The Approved Documents F, J, L, G, P are applicable and most work is notifiable to the relevant Local Authority. The information notified to them is required for household insurance and the future sale of properties. Where work is carried out by a HETAS Registered Installer, who is registered for the category of work being done, the installer can self-certificate their work via HETAS rather than the customer applying for a Building Notice from their Local Authority8170
http://www.hetas.co.uk/consumer/regulations/
If you want to sell your house just remove the stove and if you burn your house down don't bother ringing your insurance company. As an aside some insurance companies will bump your house insurance up by as much as £400 a year.
As for an exterior ventilated stove, if your underfloor space is well ventilated you can take/duct the air from there. Works well.
Biggest problem would be if you have extractor fans in the kitchen or bathroom.
Otherwise a wood burning stove saves money and keeps your coffee hot.
In reply to aln:
I think the morning after 8 pints of mild and a vindaloo would almost certainly be fatal
> How can a house be airtight? Wouldn't the occupants die?
I think the morning after 8 pints of mild and a vindaloo would almost certainly be fatal
In reply to Rigid Raider:
We have a woodburner in a well insulated house; there's an impressive 'sleurp' of inrushing air every time we open the door to fetch another log for the fire :o !
> I'll stick with a good hot stove and plenty of air exchange.
We have a woodburner in a well insulated house; there's an impressive 'sleurp' of inrushing air every time we open the door to fetch another log for the fire :o !
In reply to jimtitt:
I've installed 2 woodstoves in our french properties. There are regs but no checks made. The same goes for most aspects of construction - but I have only ever heard of sewage systems and electrics getting checked.
> The 2012 regs in France are quite strict, I find it hard to believe you can just bung a woodburner in any old how!
I've installed 2 woodstoves in our french properties. There are regs but no checks made. The same goes for most aspects of construction - but I have only ever heard of sewage systems and electrics getting checked.
In reply to elcid:
This is not in the UK. I installed a wood stove in our last house, a wooden chalet, 25 years ago. When we sold it two years ago the estate agent said we needed a certificate from a chimney sweep to say it had been swept. There is actually an obligation in France to have your chimney swept twice a year by a professional, particularly in a wooden chalet, or your insurance in the event of a fire is null and void. So we had it swept (for the first time in 23 years...!) and the sweep gave us a certificate but noted at the bottom that the installation had not been done by a professional and was far from complying to the norms. That meant that neither he nor us were responsible for any future fire and that the onus was put on the buyer to have it put right!
> The myth is that you cannot install a wood burner yourself, you do not require a Hetas engineer, ask Hetas themselves 01684 27
This is not in the UK. I installed a wood stove in our last house, a wooden chalet, 25 years ago. When we sold it two years ago the estate agent said we needed a certificate from a chimney sweep to say it had been swept. There is actually an obligation in France to have your chimney swept twice a year by a professional, particularly in a wooden chalet, or your insurance in the event of a fire is null and void. So we had it swept (for the first time in 23 years...!) and the sweep gave us a certificate but noted at the bottom that the installation had not been done by a professional and was far from complying to the norms. That meant that neither he nor us were responsible for any future fire and that the onus was put on the buyer to have it put right!
In reply to airtight house people:
How do you dry your washing in cold weather, without using an electric dryer, which defeats half of the objective of being economical?
My house leaks like a sieve and we get fairly bad condensation when drying washing.
How do you dry your washing in cold weather, without using an electric dryer, which defeats half of the objective of being economical?
My house leaks like a sieve and we get fairly bad condensation when drying washing.
In reply to Lusk:
Dry it outside on a washing line?
> How do you dry your washing in cold weather, without using an electric dryer, which defeats half of the objective of being economical?
> My house leaks like a sieve and we get fairly bad condensation when drying washing.
Dry it outside on a washing line?
In reply to jon:
Yeah, when it's dry and warmish! We even do that up her int North
What about when it isn't?
> Dry it outside on a washing line?
Yeah, when it's dry and warmish! We even do that up her int North
What about when it isn't?
In reply to jon:
We've just had a stove installed, but our house isn't sealed. The installer was a mine of good information, and here's some I remember him telling me...
It needs either a stove room ventilator (alas no good for sealed houses) or a direct air supply, depending on how keen you are to maintain the airtightness.
Direct air ducted in to the back of the stove from the outside I guess is the answer for you, but there is a marginal loss of heat efficiency due to cold air entering the stove. The stove you get would also need to be as efficiently sealed as possible to reduce combustion air from the room entering the stove.
Combustion air extracted from the room is ok if the room is big and/or the stove is below (I think) 5-6Kw output - otherwise there is the potential risk of lethal carbon monoxide toxicity. No matter what you choose, you also would need to install a CO alarm in the room near to the stove, direct air feed or not.
The HETAS website has a lot of info on this:
http://www.hetas.co.uk/professionals/installers/safety-notices/
We've just had a stove installed, but our house isn't sealed. The installer was a mine of good information, and here's some I remember him telling me...
It needs either a stove room ventilator (alas no good for sealed houses) or a direct air supply, depending on how keen you are to maintain the airtightness.
Direct air ducted in to the back of the stove from the outside I guess is the answer for you, but there is a marginal loss of heat efficiency due to cold air entering the stove. The stove you get would also need to be as efficiently sealed as possible to reduce combustion air from the room entering the stove.
Combustion air extracted from the room is ok if the room is big and/or the stove is below (I think) 5-6Kw output - otherwise there is the potential risk of lethal carbon monoxide toxicity. No matter what you choose, you also would need to install a CO alarm in the room near to the stove, direct air feed or not.
The HETAS website has a lot of info on this:
http://www.hetas.co.uk/professionals/installers/safety-notices/
Post edited at 21:28
In reply to Lusk:
I have a dryer in the garage and use it only once or so per year.(I mainly live on my own though.) I just have the washing on a clothes airer/dryer in the living room and have a small opening in a nearby window.
By the way was there not a recent report that there is a higher report of cancer in people who live with wood stoves, irrespective of the form of ventilation.It makes sense and ought to be considered,although I must admit I find the stoves attractive
I have a dryer in the garage and use it only once or so per year.(I mainly live on my own though.) I just have the washing on a clothes airer/dryer in the living room and have a small opening in a nearby window.
By the way was there not a recent report that there is a higher report of cancer in people who live with wood stoves, irrespective of the form of ventilation.It makes sense and ought to be considered,although I must admit I find the stoves attractive
In reply to Fraser:
Well yes, that solution had occurred to me. Yesterday I went down to see my neighbour who oversaw the building of his own house rather than have a package deal company do it. It was 'finished' last year and so was subject to the same regulations/specs as ours. However, somehow he's avoided getting the pressure test done (I think he's on dodgy ground here). He said it certainly wouldn't pass and showed me numerous gaps and holes in the construction, mainly unintentional! All rather blasé but coincidentally he remarked that on the plus side it does mean that his wood stove works, no problem!
> To my mind, it's all a bit hypothetical as I much prefer opening windows to ventilate the space I'm in, rather than using mechanical means.
Well yes, that solution had occurred to me. Yesterday I went down to see my neighbour who oversaw the building of his own house rather than have a package deal company do it. It was 'finished' last year and so was subject to the same regulations/specs as ours. However, somehow he's avoided getting the pressure test done (I think he's on dodgy ground here). He said it certainly wouldn't pass and showed me numerous gaps and holes in the construction, mainly unintentional! All rather blasé but coincidentally he remarked that on the plus side it does mean that his wood stove works, no problem!
Post edited at 13:55
In reply to elcid:
Are you sure that's not just scaremongering by HETAS ?
> If you want to sell your house just remove the stove and if you burn your house down don't bother ringing your insurance company. As an aside some insurance companies will bump your house insurance up by as much as £400 a year.
Are you sure that's not just scaremongering by HETAS ?
In reply to jon:
Our house is pretty well sealed as we have plastic windows with rubber seals. When you open the bedroom doors there's definitely a huff of air rushing past the door as it reduces the volume of the room momentarily, especially in the smaller rooms. You can stand inside the room and push the door hard but it won't slam thanks to the suction it creates as it enters the rebate and you feel a momentary depression in your ears.
So when we installed our two stoves we drilled ventilation holes through the same walls about 6' away. The effect is that as the stoves send massive volumes of air up the flues, fresh cold air comes in the vents, travels along to the stoves and air isn't sucked under the door or through the window creating drafts. I know this to be true because I am married to a draft detector who will complain at the smallest air movement; for example when somebody opens the lounge door and the hot (yes, hot) air rushes out of the room up the stairs bringing cooler air down the stairs and into the room at a lower level.
Our house is pretty well sealed as we have plastic windows with rubber seals. When you open the bedroom doors there's definitely a huff of air rushing past the door as it reduces the volume of the room momentarily, especially in the smaller rooms. You can stand inside the room and push the door hard but it won't slam thanks to the suction it creates as it enters the rebate and you feel a momentary depression in your ears.
So when we installed our two stoves we drilled ventilation holes through the same walls about 6' away. The effect is that as the stoves send massive volumes of air up the flues, fresh cold air comes in the vents, travels along to the stoves and air isn't sucked under the door or through the window creating drafts. I know this to be true because I am married to a draft detector who will complain at the smallest air movement; for example when somebody opens the lounge door and the hot (yes, hot) air rushes out of the room up the stairs bringing cooler air down the stairs and into the room at a lower level.
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