UKC

Hello Everyone

I hope you might be able to help with some trip planning, and would appreciate any feedback good or bad.

Two friends and I plan to tackle Snowdon on 31st January. I have a fair bit of experience of summer hill walking across the UK and in Austria. I've done Snowdon via Pyg/Miners many times and have the right kit. I am borrowing some crampons and axe. I can navigate pretty well with map and compass.

However, I have not done ANY winter hill walking and have not used crampons before. My two friends are less experienced than I am, but are very, very fit lads.

I am a bit concerned that we may be biting off a bit more than we can chew tackling this in winter, but can't gauge the safety advice very well. It seems to be pointed towards difficult/climbing routes - all we really want to do is get up there by the easiest route and experience the views.

So far we are planning to get there early doors and tackle it only if the forecast is really good all day - what can I expect? What would be a good route? Any advice from you guys is appreciated.

In reply to germaica:

Have you looked into the options for getting a guide for the day? Or going on a weekend winter skills course?

The most prudent advice would be 'don't go unless you know how to handle an ice axe and crampons'. Possibly that's overly cautious advice, there's plenty of time between now and the end of January to read up on ice axe and crampon use for winter walking. There's not a lot to it but knowing how to arrest is essential (as is having practised it on a small slope with a short run out beforehand). Gain some basic understanding of avalanches and the conditions that lead to them.

This is an excellent book for the skills you'll need. A day out or two with an instructor would be even better!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Winter-Skills-Essential-Climbing-Techniques/dp/0954...

Winter hillwalking and climbing is entirely conditions dependent, there's a big difference between fresh powder, wet slush and hard frozen ice. Keep an eye on the weather forecasts, conditions reports etc. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. You should be able to navigate with map and compass, but hopefully you won't need to use them. Bear in mind conditions can change very quickly and can be very localised, and forecasts aren't always correct. Main paths do get very icy from the passage of many boots compressing the snow.

The easiest route would be the Llanberis path. However, several people died there several years ago after snow on the path turned into sheet ice. On a clear day in winter, you may well get hundreds of people on the summit without any winter gear at all oblivious to the risks they're taking!

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1653

Good to see that you're asking questions, and also that you're already thinking of forecasts and getting out early. I hope it all comes together for you and you have a great day out (and many more in future )!

In reply to Trevers:

Trevers, thanks you very much for the advice, it all makes sense and seems to take a pragmatic approach which is what I was after.

As with a lot of 'safety oriented' stuff, generalised advice often takes in the worst case scenario - which it has to of course. Normally with a bit of experience you can gauge the actual risk. For example, I took my five year old son out kayaking recently and was a little apprehensive about going on the river mersey based on internet forums for this particular section. Having reccied it on my own the weekend before, just to check, I realised that it was just about as safe as its possible to get - flat as a pancake - far more dangerous going for a dip in the sea in Blackpool. We went and had fun.

I have the same doubts here effectively leading a couple of mates, but don't want to be over-cautious - since this kind of thing has to have a bit of 'bite'.

Having read up a little more, I am getting a bit more confident about going, and have ordered that book you recommended on Amazon (shame there is no commission for you! ) and will talk to the lads about doing a day out on Winter skills.

Cheers
Andy

In reply to germaica:

If you all have crampons, axe, map and compass and know how to use it then the Llanberis path would seem to be OK

The main thing is to turn back if anything untoward happens with the weather or your companions.

Proper gear goes without saying - I've lost count of the number of jeans and cotton hoodies I've seen walking up in winter!

Good luck and enjoy the view! Snowdonia in its winter garb is always pretty special

In reply to Babika:




+1

In reply to Babika:

Hi Babika

Thanks very much for your advice, much appreciated.

Andy

In reply to germaica:
On another thread, someone suggested the Ranger path might be better in winter than the Llanberis path (I haven't done it so can't comment)? Beware the 'killer convex' on the Llanberis path where the railway crosses above Clogwyn Coch; many (often ill-equipped) people walk on the railway in winter but that is not where the Llanberis path goes (but again I haven't done it so more experienced people can comment if I am talking rubbish!).

These videos from Glenmore Lodge are good though.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrqtph4KNo5eR4rEAD698DJPL2kXoBGa0

Finally 99% of summer boots are not really suitable for fitting with 90% of crampons, so be sure you have at least B1 boots (for use with C1 crampons) or have some of the crazy super-flexible crampons (with an understanding of their limitations).

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
What do you think the chances of it being in winter condition are and the carrying of crampons and an axe being justified? <25%?

In reply to germaica:
The thing is Snowdonia typically isn't really a very wintry area. The summits are more commonly almost completely free of snow than covered in snow during the winter, obviously this does depend on the winter somewhat. You could of course have a couple of different plans and only go up Snowdon if its not in winter condition.

I'm not advising these instead of crampons, but if you are only on ground that isn't too steep these are great, especially for typical icey paths with rocks pocking out etc - in that case they are better than crampons as they don't twist your ankles as much http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3268

In reply to germaica:

You sound pretty switched on. With the right kit (as you've already described) then you should be fine. If in doubt, turn around and go to the pub. Enjoy!

Top tips:

Check all your crampons fit before you head to the hills.
Have an understanding at least of how to ice axe arrest if you slip. Plenty of videos on the internet, and you can safely practice on gentle slopes lower down without any rocks/cliffs to hit. Remember to keep your feet up in the air when you're sliding.
Don't catch your trouser legs on crampon spikes and trip over, it's embarassing! And dangerous. A wider stance than normal when walking, and some snug gaiters to stop baggy trousers flapping around might be worth consideing too.