UKC

How are the crags around Bridge of Orchy looking? Any ice yet?

Was more thinking about Beinn an Dothaidh and Dorain rather than Udlaidh.

In reply to aldo56:

No/very little ice. Was up yesterday and got a look at beinn Dorian and south face of Dothaidh. Can send you a photo if you pm me.

In reply to J_Trottet:

This is one of the more fickle crags in Southern Highlands, knew the'd be no ice, was crag frozen though?

Stuart

In reply to J_Trottet and Postie:
Cheers gents, I'll head a bit further north.

In reply to Stuart the postie:

What's the most reliable southern highlands crag?

In reply to Stuart the postie:

Crag was pretty well frozen. Deep snow cover on approaches.

In reply to aldo56:

What are peoples thoughts on Beinn Udlaidh? Will it of been cold for long enough by Sunday for some good water ice to of formed? Not been there before...

In reply to aldo56:

Coire Chat, Ben Cruachan

Then B of O:
NE Coire Dothaid
Beinn Udlaidh
Creag an Soccach

Arrochar:
Beinn an Lochain
Cobbler
Beinn Ime
Creag Tharsuin
Brack

Regards

Stuart

In reply to Swampi:

im hoping som ething will have formed, there was slithers of ice on the waterfals below the chairlift at glencoe on Tuesday (roughly 500m altitude) and its been significantly cold since then

In reply to Webster:

That's what I'm hoping too - being water-ice rather than snow-ice. Not been there before so not sure how long a cold period it takes to get some good ice from the springs. Anyone have a clue? It's been pretty much below freezing for over a week now...

In reply to Swampi:
From experience below freezing isn't enough, remember this is running water we are talking about. I think -3 or -4 is enough but -5 or below is what you really want to get fat conditions. I think given really really cold conditions 5-7 days is realistic for OK conditions, given -1 or -2 maybe not at all.

Hells Lum is higher and normally has a lot of drainage and springs on the cliff but there was very little water ice on the crag last weekend.

Most the AWS don't give historical data past 48hrs but aonach mor does, its less maritime and 300 metres higher so probably 2-4 degrees colder (unless there is an inversion), based on this I'd personally be surprised if anything was in, I doubt its even been sub zero for the whole of the last week with typical temps between -6 and +1 and averaging around -1/-2 is my guess, also creag meagaidh isn't in AFAIK and I'd expect that to be colder, but you'll never know unless you check it out yourself and there is reports of ice starting to form in the southern highlands (not fat enough for screws though)

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?LANG=en&WMO=03041&ART=MXMN...

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Thanks CurlyStevo! Some good advice there.

In reply to Swampi:
If you are lucky you may get more info on the meagaidh blog later today on water ice formation http://meagaidhblog.sais.gov.uk/2016/01/the-western-end-of-our-patch/

bare in mind UKC incorrectly lists the height of Beinn Udlaidh at 840 metres this is the top of the mountain not the base of the cliffs as you'd expect, these are more like 550 - 700 metres, it's really quite a low down venue. I reckon it may be more like 3-5 degrees warmer than the top of aonach mor during a typical day, night temperatures may be colder though.

In reply to aldo56: Some good easy (grade III) ice further North today if you're willing to go looking for it but most places will need a few more days..
Monday and Tuesday could be good, although I think the weekend warriors may be disappointed.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Left Twin is in but thin and so are the other ice climbs just around there. Very cold last night, can't be long for Udlaidh if this keeps up, although its forecast to be milder later next week.

In reply to CurlyStevo: When looking back at historical weather data and known winter ascents for water ice climbs in the Borders and Galloway Hills, such as Grey Mare's Tail and Dow Spout, I found that it wasn't so much the depth of the freeze but the length of it that was crucial. 12 nights of sub zero temperatures seemed the minimum for frozen waterfalls that carried a lot of water. The day time temperature could be above zero and in fact I imagine this might help the fattening up process.

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:
Interesting and sounds about right for lower level fast flowing water falls. Of course Udlaidh forms from springs not fast flowing streams/rivers and is higher up the hill. Generally as you go up higher the temperature fluctuates less during cold snaps than lower down in the glens,when the day time temperature may be closer to zero but the night time temps can be much colder than on the tops.

I've found in the past even when it's been -10 to -20 during sustained very cold snaps (here and abroad) there is still normally water flowing over the ice in places (and for most proper water ice there will usually be behind IMO)

I have read for Udlaidh if its really cold the springs can freeze at source and then it won't form properly, but that didn't happen during the 09/10 10/11 winters that were properly baltic for fairly sustained periods.

In reply to aldo56:
Messiah was done Sunday, I'm told in decent nick.

-5 at in Tyndrum late Friday night with clear skies. +2 early Sunday evening.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Walked up to Udlaidh on Sat along with some teams we met from Birmingham area., West Bromwich MC possibly?? The ground on the approach was mostly frozen but not in all places and the forest track treacherously icy underneath. There were some significant looking icicles on the far righthand side (right of The Smirk I think), good snow coverage across the whole crag but not a blanket covering and what looked through the bins like some ice building up in the gullies and on the face lines - sorry can't be more helpful than that and most topo type photos I took are too blurry due to snow. If anyone from the WBMC sees this they should be able to advise far better as they appeared to be going for a team ascent of Central Gully II

Be aware the single track road in was pretty hairy from Bridge of Orchy side and not gritted . We ended up bailing in the corrie mouth before getting to the foot of the routes as we were concerned about getting back out after snow arrived from the west several hours earlier than forecast... We were lucky and only made it back onto the main road thanks to a push from some friendly locals.

FYI for first time visitors there are/were a couple of large (curious but friendly) pigs in the field you cross by the farm.

In reply to pebblespanker:

I drove my car into a ditch on the single track road last there last year, after crashing on black ice near Comrie an hour earlier (unlucky day eh). The farmer guy underneath Udlaidh was a hero though and pulled my car out with his 4x4 at a rather unsociable hour in the early morning! The little hill just before rejoining the A road can be pretty touch and go as well, would recommend winter tyres and/or 4x4 if heading into Udlaidh in really snowy conditions!

In reply to CMcBain:

Word.

It was that little hill onto the A road that was indeed the nightmare, you had to stop to check for oncoming traffic and the road conditions meant minimal traction... me trying to push the car up the slope on my own was YouTube epic fail material

In reply to aldo56:

there was fun to be had for the adventurous at Ben udlaidh today. we climbed quartzvein scoop which was fully formed and good for the crux pitch, rather cruddy above and below but fine with a confident approach. ice crew looked good and there was plenty of choice of lines between quartzvein and ice crew around III-IV.

none of the classic Vs were in, tho peter pan direct is complete but very thin. I recon most/all of the grade II-III routes would have been climbable to some extent but the best conditions were definitely at the top of the eastern (left hand) sector.

In reply to Webster:

Haha, David, conditions are clearly improving in the post-Real Food Cafe glow! We mostly climbed the route on 2-3 inches of utter crud poorly bonded to notably unhelpful schist slabs, all topped with a foot of powder, to the constant accompaniment of the sound of running water! There was indeed some good ice though at the crux and intermittently elsewhere, notably on the right towards the top. And for anyone brave enough to repeat our shenanigans, the cornice has been excavated and there's a lovely snow bollard now waiting for you beyond. You're welcome!

In reply to Tricadam:

such a pessimist, you are just spoiled having taken up winter climbing over the last few great winters on the stonking ice of the ben!

In reply to aldo56:
Great water ice at Geal Charn. Got The Hex Factor (V,5) done today. Unfortunately not sure it will last past tomorrow.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:


Nice! Hadn't heard of that venue. Must check it out sometime.