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MAM(W)IL etiquette for a newcomer

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 Shapeshifter 18 Jan 2016
Having reached the tender age of 51, I recently bought my first road bike, towards the back end of last year. Well first if you assume a Raleigh Chopper from the 70's doesn't count as a road bike.

Anyway, I've really enjoyed getting out on the bike and have been pleasantly surprised how friendly other bikers are and how many people make a point of saying hello when they're going in the opposite direction (clearly more refined individuals than those roughty-toughty climber types). However, on the admittedly very infrequent occasion that I've actually managed to catch somebody up from behind, my jaunty wave and cheery 'good morning / afternoon' seems to be greeted with a look of dismay, followed by a very concerted effort from said biker to speed up and pass me again further up the road.

Am I transgressing some unwritten rule? Is there some aspect of bike-lore that I should be aware of in these situations?

Worried of Chester
 deepsoup 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:
> Well first if you assume a Raleigh Chopper from the 70's doesn't count as a road bike.

I think that depends what you do with it.
http://road.cc/content/news/118521-raleigh-chopper-rider-reaches-summit-mou...
 nniff 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

It's a harsh reality of life that many people seem not to like to be caught. If I do manage to latch onto someone and don't particularly want to pass them and/or subsequently feel obliged to sustain the race that ensues, I tend to ask if they mind me drafting them for a while because I'm knackered and that I'll take a turn on the front in a minute when I've got my breath back. If they want to stay with me, well that's fine, and I'll swing off when I've had enough and they can have a go.

It's always polite to ask if you want to join a group, but make sure you take your turn on the front.

A cheery hello as you pass someone is often interpreted it seems as a spot of one-upmanship, whether intended that way or not (certainly in the Richmond park commuting fraternity it is)
OP Shapeshifter 18 Jan 2016
In reply to deepsoup:

Fair enough - my second road bike then. That guy in the link makes me think I've copped out by replacing it
Removed User 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

It's most likely just bloody-mindedness (certainly in my case) - if you've been churning along with the internal certainty that you're the best cyclist out that day, if not ever, and then someone sails past, the instinct is to try to keep up with them to prove to them (yourself, really) that they're only in front because you're letting them be.

If you've not come across it yet (and someone's bound to suggest it eventually anyway), this page should give more insight into the mind of the hardcore cyclist:

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/
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OP Shapeshifter 18 Jan 2016
In reply to nniff:

A cheery hello as you pass someone is often interpreted it seems as a spot of one-upmanship, whether intended that way or not (certainly in the Richmond park commuting fraternity it is)

OK so basically keep my head down, no hellos and try to look a bit gnarly and not worth chasing you reckon?

OP Shapeshifter 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Removed UserBwox:

> If you've not come across it yet (and someone's bound to suggest it eventually anyway), this page should give more insight into the mind of the hardcore cyclist:



Ah 'The Knowledge' - clearly I have much to learn Master. There's a bloody lot of it though!
 nniff 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:



I tend to go on an assessment of the other party's style- if they look like they're out for a leg-turner and so are you, then an acknowledgement is in order. If they look are trying to carry off the hero-of-the-road look and not carrying it off, then a pass at reasonable speed is best, without comment. If the other party decides to latch on, carry them for a while, then sit up a bit, exchange pleasantries as they come past and see how it goes and takes turns if pace is compatible. Trying to hold a lead against someone who's trying to prove a point is a good way to spoil your ride, unless you are after that sort of an outing.

If they decide to make a point of passing you again without you sitting up, let them go. When you pass them again, a comment is definitely in order: panache is necessary now!
OP Shapeshifter 18 Jan 2016
In reply to nniff:

There's a lot more to this than I realised and clearly style is paramount. However from what you say, people speeding up and latching on is acceptable, so long as they take a turn up front, so I'll work on that basis for now. I'll also try to keep my greetings to a qualified, but respectful level of enthusiasm. Somewhere between a nod and a slight smile, but with minimal eye contact for best effect perhaps.
 edunn 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:
My take on it is that being overtaken is a slight (of sorts). You're basically making it very obvious that you are fitter than the other person.

Nothing wrong with that. Can't go around not overtaking just so you don't offend, but I tend to take the following steps so as not to cause offence:
- Make sure you're going to overtake and stay ahead (i.e. you didn't tail the person all the way up hill and then burn past them on the downhill).
- Temper my 'HELLO' slightly, to a breathless 'hiya', or sometimes just a small hand wave
- Make it look like I'm trying really hard and they are doing a great job, it's just that today I happen to be out on a time trial, which they could never have anticipated.

Basically, don't make it look like you're pleased, in any way shape or form, to be overtaking someone.

It's all bolox really.
Post edited at 15:52
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 Brass Nipples 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:
Ha ha

It's human nature often played out on commutes to and from work. Who doesn't see a cyclist ahead and decide to set them as a target to catch? Make sure if overtaking on a hill that you know the hill and can be sure of getting to the top before the one you've overtaken. Once the hill is crested sit back and let them overtake again as though it was your choice. Smile as they go past.

It's all good fun and if you play it well you'll just smile when someone overtakes you again.

There are a few gumpy ones but for the most part it's just a bit of fun.
Post edited at 15:37
 kingborris 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

you do know its not a race?:

http://www.itsnotarace.org/

1
In reply to Shapeshifter: This happens a lot to me and now I make the point of asking if they didn't hear me, or whether they are simply rude.

It make me feel better.

 Hat Dude 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

There are many subtleties involved in the art of overtaking/being overtaken

You must never show any signs of exertion when overtaking even if you've bust a gut to catch somebody and being out of the saddle is a complete no-no, even on a hill.

A couple of years ago people who did the above almost invariably wore Team Sky jerseys
 Lucy Wallace 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:
You could always do a Beryl Burton and offer them a liquorice allsort?

http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/316/cycling/great-moments-of-cycling-beryl-bu...
Post edited at 16:19
 LastBoyScout 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

> Having reached the tender age of 51, I recently bought my first road bike, towards the back end of last year. Well first if you assume a Raleigh Chopper from the 70's doesn't count as a road bike.

Good stuff

>... However, on the admittedly very infrequent occasion that I've actually managed to catch somebody up from behind, my jaunty wave and cheery 'good morning / afternoon' seems to be greeted with a look of dismay, followed by a very concerted effort from said biker to speed up and pass me again further up the road.

I'm always a bit dubious of saying much when I've caught someone and I'm passing them - on a quiet bike, they may not have heard me coming and I don't want to scare the wits out of them. The look of dismay you say may just be surprise, if the mind has wandered
 Chris the Tall 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

Some people are really rude when overtaking, not even a glance or friendly bit of encouragement

youtube.com/watch?v=xbP-kvNwYsc&
paulcarey 18 Jan 2016
In reply to edunn:

Tricky one. I caught a group up yesterday and was agonizing over what say as I knew I would pass them. So settled on a relatively cheery 'morning' but now realize that may have come across really badly. Oh well...

At least they were chatting, so was a social ride I think whereas I was out to rack up some miles.
 edunn 18 Jan 2016
In reply to paulcarey:
More out-of-breathness needed next time!

Post edited at 16:48
 Chris the Tall 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

I always say hello when I'm overtaking someone, be they cyclists, runners or walkers. Costs nothing and it's friendly, even if some people still scowl at you (walkers, when mountain biking) or ignore you (roadies, ditto!).

On one occasion I was overtaken by a big bunch from one of the Sheffield clubs - all in matching kit - and the only one who said anything to me was the poor sod at the back trying to keep up. Not a club I'd want to join
 krikoman 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

> A cheery hello as you pass someone is often interpreted it seems as a spot of one-upmanship, whether intended that way or not (certainly in the Richmond park commuting fraternity it is)

> OK so basically keep my head down, no hellos and try to look a bit gnarly and not worth chasing you reckon?

No bollocks to that, you keep saying hello, if they're too miserable to acknowledge you that's their problem.
 Ian_Cognito 18 Jan 2016
In reply to nniff:

> It's always polite to ask if you want to join a group, but make sure you take your turn on the front.

If you do tuck in behind someone, then definitely announce your presence and ask if they mind you being there.

I was out on a ride on my own when a random backwards glance revealed a complete stranger sat on my wheel - I'd no idea how long for, as I hadn't passed him anywhere, I hadn't heard him due to traffic noise and he hadn't announced his presence or asked if I minded him tucking in. Having tried to drop him 3 times, it became clear he wasn't going to take the hint to back off or make any effort to pass me. Being pretty pissed off by then, I sat up and slowed down to force him to pass, but he'd crept back up so close he crashed into the back of me and fell off.

He then had the temerity to accuse me of not being used to riding in a group, as I hadn't been doing the usual group ride things like pointing out potholes - I told him I have plenty of experience, but hadn't been aware I was riding as part of any group at the time!
paulcarey 18 Jan 2016
In reply to edunn:

I'll remember that next time!
I did have a great 'race' with another cyclist over about 4 miles. He overtook me, then I caught him up and overtook him and was determined to stay in front - which I did but he was on my back wheel the whole time. We had to stop at a junction and had a very amicable chat before going our separate ways. I was done in for the rest of the ride....
 LastBoyScout 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Orgsm:

> It's human nature often played out on commutes to and from work. Who doesn't see a cyclist ahead and decide to set them as a target to catch?

One of the most annoying things about cycling is chasing someone down, only for them to turn off just before you catch them

See rule #38.

If I pass someone on a long Sunday ride, I generally assume I'm fresher and they're nearly back home.


 Brass Nipples 18 Jan 2016
> He then had the temerity to accuse me of not being used to riding in a group, as I hadn't been doing the usual group ride things like pointing out potholes - I told him I have plenty of experience, but hadn't been aware I was riding as part of any group at the time!

Ah uninvited wheel suckers who can't take a hint, they are the cockroaches of the road.

 Greasy Prusiks 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

Cycling seems to have become more unfriendly since more people have been riding. Some people use how fast your riding has become a massive nob measuring contest. Just say hello in a nice friendly way, if that makes them insecure that their problem!
 Chris the Tall 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Orgsm:

> Ah uninvited wheel suckers who can't take a hint, they are the cockroaches of the road.

Are you aware that by tucking in behind you, they are improving your aerodynamics ? Anyway, the chances are that they have put in a bit of effort to catch you, and are now taking a breather before going to the front to do their turn. Or maybe they just like the shape of your arse
 GrahamD 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

I think cyclists have become more friendly on the whole but then it probably depends where you sit in the hierarchy. The percentage of up their own arses holier than thou club cyclists is fewerI guess (and I'm not using that as a description of club cyclists in general...).
 Greasy Prusiks 18 Jan 2016
In reply to GrahamD:

Maybe it has where you are. It seems there's some people in colour coordinated kit with hugely expensive bikes who won't stoop to saying hi to anyone. I call it the team sky affect
 Brass Nipples 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Bollocks they have, they are just being a nuisance

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 Chris the Tall 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Orgsm:

Go on, why are they a nuisance ?

(Admittedly it not something I'd do, or have ever experienced)
OP Shapeshifter 18 Jan 2016
In reply to kingborris:
Love those 2 quotes
Post edited at 18:30
KevinD 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

just ignore those who take it too seriously.
Probably best, as others have suggested, if you try and sound mildly tired when passing someone so they dont have their ego too deflated.
 abr1966 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

I'm usually content for people to pass me....it lowers the tension I'm feeling when I know they are behind me and approaching! I'm usually caught on hills but tend to turn over a decent pace on lumpy roads or flat areas.
On the rarer occasion that I pass someone it's usually akin to something in between stalking and hunting...a steady silent approach, out of sight followed by a steady couple of minutes about 50 metres behind whilst I catch my breath and then pass with sufficient speed to prevent someone hitching a ride on my wheel....not because I'm unsocial but because I can only maintain my passing speed for 2 minutes max!!
OP Shapeshifter 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris the Tall
> Are you aware that by tucking in behind you, they are improving your aerodynamics ? Anyway, the chances are that they have put in a bit of effort to catch you, and are now taking a breather before going to the front to do their turn. Or maybe they just like the shape of your arse

Unlikely - given the size of my arse - so I'll assume it's a breather and prepare myself to tuck in.

Thanks everybody for the excellent replies - I feel I have taken the first steps on the path to enlightenment
KevinD 18 Jan 2016
In reply to abr1966:

> I'm usually content for people to pass me

what I hate is the people who overtake and then just pootle along barely faster giving that awkward slipstream or counter overtake,
 Brass Nipples 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> Go on, why are they a nuisance ?

> (Admittedly it not something I'd do, or have ever experienced)

Another cyclist of unknown skill level tailgating 2 inches from your back wheel , what could possibly go wrong?
In reply to Shapeshifter:

You're doing everything right, it's nice to say hello to people as you pass them. Ego is the only reason they feel the need to catch back up to you.
 Ian_Cognito 18 Jan 2016
In reply to Orgsm:

> Another cyclist of unknown skill level tailgating 2 inches from your back wheel , what could possibly go wrong?

Add in the fact they have no idea where you're going and it's a recipe for disaster. The guy that hit me probably put himself out of the sportive he was apparently training for.
XXXX 19 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

When I'm out running I always say hello to the cyclists I overtake. It's polite.
 Chris Harris 19 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

> I've really enjoyed getting out on the bike and have been pleasantly surprised how friendly other bikers are and how many people make a point of saying hello when they're going in the opposite direction (clearly more refined individuals than those roughty-toughty climber types).

If you meet a climber going in the opposite direction, it generally means they've fallen off, and will be too busy to say hello.



 Brass Nipples 19 Jan 2016
In reply to XXXX:

> When I'm out running I always say hello to the cyclists I overtake. It's polite.

Had just that when fell runners in a race overtook us when mtn biking up a hill near Glossop. It was pretty funny really, though we did hurtle past on the descent.
 DundeeDave 19 Jan 2016
In reply to LastBoyScout:

I always thought rule #38 was a bit weak: it takes two to leap frog.
 cousin nick 19 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

> Having reached the tender age of 51, I recently bought my first road bike, towards the back end of last year. Well first if you assume a Raleigh Chopper from the 70's doesn't count as a road bike.

> Anyway, I've really enjoyed getting out on the bike and have been pleasantly surprised how friendly other bikers are and how many people make a point of saying hello when they're going in the opposite direction (clearly more refined individuals than those roughty-toughty climber types). However, on the admittedly very infrequent occasion that I've actually managed to catch somebody up from behind, my jaunty wave and cheery 'good morning / afternoon' seems to be greeted with a look of dismay, followed by a very concerted effort from said biker to speed up and pass me again further up the road.

> Am I transgressing some unwritten rule? Is there some aspect of bike-lore that I should be aware of in these situations?

> Worried of Chester

As another 'Grand Veteran' (53, slim, GSOH), on the rare occasions when I manage to catch up anther rider, they're usually older than me. If they've not already been alerted by my wheezing I'll usually say 'Good Morning' or whatever, and usually we'll have a bit of a chat (where they've come from, where they're going, weather etc.) By that time you can usually gauge whether the other rider actually wants to chat or not, and more crucially, you hopefully suss out how much effort they're putting in relative to you, and whether or not you can drop them! If all goes according to plan A, I can then announce "Oh well, gotta be back for lunch" (or some other lame excuse) "Enjoy the rest of your ride" and then take off! Having gleaned their proposed route, I can thus ensure that I go another way, so that I can't be caught as I soft-pedal for the next 30 mins to recover from my super-human effort.

Rather more disturbing - on a ride last summer, I became aware of some riders catching me. "Nice day" said a female voice, whereupon 4 ladies (with far more grey hair than me, some bikes with down-tube shifters and saddlebags) gracefully passed by and continued their conversation.

So what goes around, comes around!

The most important thing is getting out there and enjoying it.

N
aligibb 20 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

I always say hello to people, and find it rude if people churn past me without saying hello too. In France there isn't an issue with people seemingly put out, its Bonjours all round. We do spend lots of time riding uphills here though so it does give us more time and quieter roads for chatting, and everyone is panting.
Having said that it is pretty satisfying to spin past some guys with a cheery bonjour and then wait for them at the top! But it goes both ways.
 Indy 20 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

On morning commute I don't say anything. As for 'racing' people while commuting..... nope too dangerous. Don't acknowledge people who over take in the sticks but would on coming cyclists.
Rigid Raider 20 Jan 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

Since you admit to being a "newbie", here's what we 50-something males need to do to boost our fragile egos: catch up and sit quietly on the other rider's wheel while you get your breath back. You'll know you're doing it right when the clean airflow past your ears becomes broken and turbulent, that means you're in the other rider's vortex. Then, once you've recovered, wait for a flat or slightly downhill bit and dart out from cover, get down on the drops and blast past with a cheery "'Morning!" Obviously don't do this at the foot of a hill because you'll embarrass yourself.
KevinD 20 Jan 2016
In reply to Rigid Raider:

The advanced form of this is do it just before a set of corners where you can dive into cover and leave them desperately trying to catch up.
OP Shapeshifter 20 Jan 2016
In reply to cousin nick:

> As another 'Grand Veteran' (53, slim, GSOH), on the rare occasions when I manage to catch up anther rider, they're usually older than me. If they've not already been alerted by my wheezing I'll usually say 'Good Morning' or whatever, and usually we'll have a bit of a chat (where they've come from, where they're going, weather etc.) By that time you can usually gauge whether the other rider actually wants to chat or not, and more crucially, you hopefully suss out how much effort they're putting in relative to you, and whether or not you can drop them! If all goes according to plan A, I can then announce "Oh well, gotta be back for lunch" (or some other lame excuse) "Enjoy the rest of your ride" and then take off! Having gleaned their proposed route, I can thus ensure that I go another way, so that I can't be caught as I soft-pedal for the next 30 mins to recover from my super-human effort.

Cunning....good strategy I'll try to use that - but I guess there's only so much you can say before it looks like you might be trying to chat them up? Clearly a fine line to be drawn!
OP Shapeshifter 20 Jan 2016
In reply to Rigid Raider:

More sage advice thanks.

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