UKC

I've just started a low carb, high fat diet, but not to lose much weight (I wouldn't want to lose more than 3-4kgs)...

My wife is trying it after recommendations from her friends with the purpose to lose weight, and I thought that if I was doing a similar diet, it would help her stick with it.

I've done a fair bit of online research and it seems OK after your body has got used to the change. The main thing people are saying that your top end power and strength can suffer.

Has anyone done it, and how did it affect your climbing? I'm mainly a route climber, with the occasional bit of bouldering if that helps?

Cheers

In reply to Rob Laird:

Check out Dave Mcleods podcast on training beta, he touches on how he has swapped to such a diet.

In reply to Rob Laird:

Rather than going down that route full-time (atkins-esq) I'd recommend cycling it (ckd).

I've tried both for an extended period of time and a cyclical ketogenic diet really helped me gain a lot of good, lean based strength is a very short period.

In reply to Nordie_matt:

Actually it was that podcast that made me think it was more of a possibility. May have to go back and listen again...

In reply to Gaijin:

I've seen a few references to that, I think it was also called a targeted ketongenic diet? How long would you do it before a big trip to give your body a chance to sort itself out?

The thing I'm concerned about is running out of stamina in cruxy sections, or towards the end of longer climbs.

In reply to Rob Laird:


Just bear in mind that Dave MacLeod is a professional athlete, with very specific needs. I'd seriously question the wisdom of following a regimented diet plan unless you have a genuine medical need.

In reply to Rob Laird:

Didn't work for me at all - became really lethargic and tired all the time. Completely unable to climb hard (ok, i'm never able to climb hard buy thats cos I'm bad at climbing). Low carb lasted a couple of weeks. Maybe I didn't stick it long enough?

I'm much better off with carbs I'm my life.

In reply to bouldery bits:
If you go too low with carbs you can experience what is known as Low Carb Flu. Keto adaption/metabolic flexibility takes time.

In reply to Rob Laird:

I think DMC said that it took something like 5 weeks of feeling absolutely terrible before his body adapted, and then he loved it.

As others have said, I would question trying such an 'extreme' diet unless you really do have the discipline required. If you aren't 100% compliant then your body won't adapt and you will be stuck in a crappy middle-ground where you aren't getting enough carbs and your body isn't using up all the protein/fat

In reply to Rob Laird:

Bear in mind a high fat, low carb diet is NOT the same as a ketogenic diet. The latter is more extreme than just eating more fat and lowering carbs. The ratio for keto is 80% fat, 10% carbs, 10% protein, which is pretty severe. After a couple of weeks your body switches from using glucose as its main source of energy to ketones.

Neeley on Training Beta talks a bit about it. She quit the keto diet after one week but she is still eats a paleo diet which is HFLC. She said she felt awful on the keto diet. But Dave M replied that she needed to stick out the switchover period for another week or so.

I wouldn't try out the keto diet until you've done a fair bit of research on it first. But if you just want to cut out bread, pasta, and eat more fat in your diet its not a big deal.

Apparently for keto, there is a product that can reduce the switchover time from 1 - 3 weeks to just a few hours.

For climbing Dave M said it was too early to draw conclusions about the keto diet but early impressions were positive. Others have said its not so good for sports, particularly high intensity sport which would be climbing (assuming you're pushing yourself pretty hard, which most people tend not to).

There's a good intro about HFLC diet on Youtube by the Diet Doctor (54mins): youtube.com/watch?v=FSeSTq-N4U4&

His channel also has interviews with other high fat advocates like Gary Taubes and also people on keto diets, including one guy who is a runner.

I'm currently reading Taubes book, Why We Get Fat. Only halfway through but so far its very interesting. Definitely recommended.

In reply to Rob Laird:

I'd also add the guy on climbingnutrition.com doesn't recommended too low carb diets for climbers:
http://www.climbingnutrition.com/diet/dont-be-a-carb-hater/

In reply to stp:



Or use a cyclical ketogenic diet.

In reply to Shani:


Or frequent egg and chips and no booze like me.

In reply to Rob Laird:

Hi

I shot up in 5 kg weight over Nov and Dec to hit all time heaviness that I decided to do something about it. I was on a restricted calorie diet during December and was absolutely starved all the time and not shifting any weight. I maintained my normal exercise routine of running (no climbing or squash) due to being out of the country. I've never dieted or managed my consumption ever before December.

Whilst only about 4 weeks in on HFLC, I've found endurance and anaerobic performance has not suffered (running and squash) with a 10+ year backdrop to measure against. I don't climb sufficiently hard to have an opinion regarding climbing, but my onsite and redpoint grades have not suffered during the switch-over.

A friend cycles 70 - 100 km 5 days a week. He switched to a HFLC diet about 12 months back and reports feeling great with no performance degradation. Speaking to him, and listening to DMC about not feeling starved the whole time, was enough to make me research and try it. Feeling starved all the time was not my idea of a life. It's definitely a lot easier to manage cravings and fullness on a HF diet versus one with normal macro nutrients intake distribution. Overall I've lost about 7kg since 4 January with weekly average calorie in and and out during remain the same during both pre-HFLC phase and HFLC. So far averaging about 8 % carbs a week and didn't experience ketogenic flu or any other real side effects. I assume I'm in ketosis but no proof. Also plan to relax the carb management once target weight achieved/maintained. Ketogenic carb cycling looks like an interesting balance.

There is also a ton of scientific research going back 100 years on the subject. The research against it is actually very thin an d not all that convincing. I found this video presenting 20-30 years of research very accessible. youtube.com/watch?v=yP6DtqmZ3Mw&

Goodluck but remember you do need to be strict for at least a couple of weeks before weight results are noticed. The starving and cravings face in a couple of days.

In reply to druss:

Lot of interesting info in that video like the idea of carb intolerance, similar to lactose intolerance or gluten intolerance. Thanks for sharing.

In reply to Rob Laird:
Try reading Grain Brain.This recommends cutting out bread.It relates to gluten,wheat,sugar,overweight and related hormonal influences on the brain and consequent Alzheimers.The author is a brain neurologist.

I have cut right back on carbs but have a few slices of bread occasionally.Potatoes are a no no.Berries fruit and nuts are all commended.Sugary products are also out.Eggs are highly commended as having all the requisite proteins,and thus help to protect the brain.When I was cranking sets of 20 pull ups I was eating plenty of eggs,back in the day.Eat greens and fruit for roughage.

In reply to paul mitchell:

Mankind has been eating potatoes and other tubers for thousands of years (I know different strains have been bred). It is unlikely that they are bad for us and most people tolerate them rather well. Also they're nutritiously rich.

I' go so far as to say that avoiding British bread would do you more of a benefit than avoiding potatoes. Bread in the UK is made from highly refined (acellular) CHO which is stripped of its vitamins and fiber during processing. That is the kind of food I'd be inclined to avoid.

*PS: I didn't dislike your post!

In reply to Shani:

Mankind has been drinking alcohol for thousands of years too.Try reading the book,and then comment.

In reply to Shani:
Not the whole of Mankind eating potatoes? Otherwise my history teachers were frauds!

I reached an unhealthy 13st early this summer and since then I have changed my eating radically. I eat a lot less than I did - I reduced carbohydrate a lot - while I used to have potato etc with my main meal and then some kind of home cooked pud (eg fruit pie or crumble et etc) when available. I now eat far less of the main course carbohydrate and cut it out completely if we are having a pud as that will serve the purpose instead.

I only eat a spoonful of full fat natural yoghourt till lunch (+ an apple or pear sometimes) which may be delayed till mid afternoon. If going on the hill I'll still stay the same, but carry some food in case of need. I rarely eat till I get home now, but for the first few months I'd use that food as a late breakfast (eg a sandwich on the summit, then progressing to holding off eating till the carpark after a fast descent, then eventually to eating it at home for a late lunch) This eliminates a meal (you DON'T eat more later to compensate!) while still exercising.

As a result I've lost a stone (and could lose another as 11st is still more than my early adult weight of 10st 7) but I'm managing to get up and down the hills faster than I have ever done previously, even without breakfast.

As for starvation? It feels like a mild readiness or inclination to eat which I KNOW I can disregard for some hours without losing energy and still exercise. I used to go through a bloat starve cycle feeling weak when hungry when I was eating as I have for most of my life. Now I just don't get those lows in the same urgent way - far less pronounced fluctuations in energy and less "fazed" by hunger or delayed meals.

It works for me, mind you I'll soon be 60

Wish I'd learned this years ago, for what it's worth to anyone else!

ps I know this is not directly related to training for climbing at a level far beyond mine, but I feel more nimble and able for being lighter.

In reply to Rob Laird:

if you mean a ketogenic diet then do a serious research on how to do it, as you can mess it up very easily and end up with an unbalanced diet. My wife is on a ketogenic diet since November and is doing very well. And to make matters more difficult she is diabetic type 1. She has some advantages on doing it correct as she has a small device that measures ketones (great for monitoring your adaptation) and she knows very well what she is eating in terms of proteins, fat and carbs. To help with this she also uses an app where she uses to check her macro-nutrient intake, which I would say is critical for doing it correctly.

I have also tried for 3 weeks but for me the adaptation was really hard and at the end of the 3 weeks I just though that for me it would not bring many advantages over a standard diet. I did lost 3kg very easily! The body will adapt to whatever diet but that does not mean it is the best for you.

In reply to paul mitchell:


My response was due to your comment that the book "...recommends cutting out bread. It relates to gluten,wheat,sugar,overweight and related hormonal influences on the brain and consequent Alzheimers".

From this you went on to say, "I have cut right back on carbs but have a few slices of bread occasionally.Potatoes are a no no."

So you seem to have started off quoting a book that recommends avoiding BREAD and you have then gone on to generalise the point to the extent that you've cut 'right back on carbs' but still eat BREAD....the VERY foodstuff the book recommends you avoid!

I found your argument quite confusing as you can imagine. Thanks for the book recommendation. I will endeavor to read it.

In reply to Shani:

Just if anyone's interested, it is the ketongenic diet that I'm trying out. Currently averaging around 5% carbs, 20% protein and 75% fats (percentages seem to differ where you look, but this seems to be the most used)

So far I'm 5 days in,felt a bit weak to begin with, but that's eased up and so far one thing I've noticed is that my energy levels are much more consistent through the day.

I did a repeaters session on the fingerboard yesterday, which didn't feel as bad as I expected, and I'm climbing at the weekend. I'm plan to up my carbs on climbing days, but will play around with the amounts and see how it goes.

I'm going to give it a month or so, which should hopefully help my wife settle into the diet and gives me a chance to proper assess the affect is has on me.

In reply to Rob Laird:

After a month (if you last that long), try a Targeted Ketogenic Diet (increase the carbs on a training day). This is what I follow (not a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet as I put elsewhere - damn all these TLAs). It is MUCH easier to follow in my opinion.

In reply to Shani:

That's the one that I was thinking about. Do you measure your carbs on a training day, or just guess what you need?

In reply to druss:


I understand there are litmus-like testing strips one can buy, that react to something in (or not in) urine

In reply to wercat:


Oi!

In reply to Rob Laird:

Crucial points if you are going very low carb (< 20g/day which is required to enable ketoadaptation):

1) You need to massively increase salt intake as your kidneys will start scrubbing out of your system. This is one of the main sources of 'keto-flu'. I drink 2 cubes of vegetable oxo stock and add salt freely to my meals.

2) Add plenty of fat to your food, especially if you're not planning on losing weight.

3) Read Phinney and Voleks works on Low carb living and performance and gain a scientific understanding for what's going on and why.

In reply to nufkin:

point taken - I should have said unhealthy for me as my build is fairly light

In reply to Rob Laird:

No - can't be arsed to measure anything. My basic approach is two meals a day (I seldom eat breakfast - perhaps porridge on a weekend). Easiest thing to do is to manipulate my CHO, increasing it on training day and cutting back on a rest day. The advantage of this is that my evening meal can be 'normal' and I can eat with the family! :

Training Day:
Lunch: Large Salad + 2xTuna + 2 or 3 fist sized potatoes (sweet/jacket) + fruit (bananas)

Tea: Half a chicken/fresh fish + veg + 2 or 3 fist sized potatoes (sweet/jacket)

Rest Day:
Lunch: Large Salad (with avocado) + Sardines + Mackerel + small handful of EACH of the following nuts (almonds, pecans, brazils, hazelnuts, walnuts) + couple of pieces of dark chocolate + fruit (apple/orange)

Tea: Steak + liver + veg + 2 or 3 fist sized potatoes (sweet/jacket)

As you can see, on a rest day my fat intake goes up a bit (oily fish and nuts), and by CHO comes down. My protein target is roughly 2g per KG of lean bodymass.

As I said, I don't measure this stuff, but I have measured it in the past and know that the above gets me to where I need to be to nourish myself, sustain my training and keep to a BF of around 10%. It is intuitive now - I don't even think about it.

I try to emphasize seasonal veg and salad but will eat out of season stuff as well. I get fresh liver from my butcher (it is MUCH better than supermarket stuff), and make the odd bone broth from bones (god knows what the caloric content is in that).

I enjoy my food and if I fancy a junky snack, I eat it. But this way of eating keeps me satisfied and I don't really snack or graze.

For the record, I am 84kg and 10%bf. My macros requirements for RECOMPOSITION according to Leangains/RippedBody are something like:

R-Day: 150p 60f 170c
T-Day: 150p 50f 400c

In practice, I sacrifice T-day CHO to allow more FAT.

Hope that helps.

In reply to Rob Laird:

Just to add I 'train' three days a week (M W F), and might have an extra session on a weekend - heavy or light, depending on how I feel.

Only other things to add are that I take my sleep time/quality seriously and also take time to destress.

In reply to Rob Laird:

If you want, post up your age, height, lean bodymass and weight (in KG) and I've a macro to calculate your macros for recomposition, bulking or cutting.

In reply to Shani:

After just 3 days on a raw food diet I lost over a stone!

It's kind of put me off sausages for a while though.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:



Cooking starts the digestion process so if you are eating raw food, you'll likely be digesting fewer calories. A stone in three days will largely be water loss. But at that rate, beware that you may well lose a lot of muscle mass. Keep your protein high at the very least.

In reply to paul mitchell:


Is it backed up by scientific research?

Another anti-grain book was Wheatbelly, also written by a Doctor. This book sold millions and was endorsed by loads of celebs, the guy was on TV etc. However it turned out that his claims about grains weren't based on any research at all and there was no support for them. I suppose he just made them up. The positive effects of the diet were thought to be attributable simply to people cutting down on carbohydrates, which is more or less inevitable if you cut out wheat and other grains. But regardless of the books veracity it certainly made its author a ton of money.

I think diet books are the equivalent of the old elixir of life, the magic potion that will cure everything. People are willing to buy into anything to avoid death. It makes the authors rich and probably harder to disprove unlike some bottled substance.

In reply to Rob Laird:

There's a book about this by Doctor Stephen Phinney (who's talk someone else linked to below).

The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Performance/dp/0983490...

In reply to Rob Laird:

Training Beta has just made a podcast on ketogenic diets too.

In reply to stp:
I saw that, I'll check it out later.

I'm 2 weeks in now, and getting settled with the change of diet. Climbing last week was a bit below my usual standard, but not by much.

I think I'll be sticking with it for a while...

In reply to Rob Laird:



Hi Rob ,

I myself have been on the keto diet since December the 1st 2015
My primary motivation was to loose some weight in order to look ripped (before I'm 40).
I train a lot at the gym and have done for years but still was at 77.5 kg @18 % body fat .
After researching the keto diet I decided to give it a go and experiment.
I used the keto calculator website to work out my macros once every month.
I also use my fitness app to track my food consumption and exercise.

As of today I'm 72 days into it. I've lost 8.5 Kg and dropped to 69.0 kg @ 13.0 % body fat and I'm looking very very ripped even if I do say so myself.

After the initial adaptation to the keto diet I found I had more energy , slept less, can train for longer , suffered no insulin highs and lows and a whole host of other benefits to this life style. It literally felt like I've woken up from some kind of carb induced coma which I'd been in most of my life.
With all things keto might not be for all but for me personally I think it's simply amazing from my experience.

I hope you have similar success



TS

In reply to Rob Laird:

So what is the risk of becoming keto-acidotic?
Has anyone been hospitalised on your diet?

It sounds crazy for someone (higher up the thread) who is diabetic to push the possibility of ketone formation in their body, but I have not read about the diet, so perhaps someone can reassure me of the safety of this diet.

In reply to veteye:




It isn't safe for people with diabetes from all accounts !

TS

In reply to That Shallot:



I have read of accounts that it is actually very safe. There is confusion around ketoacidosis, and ketosis. In medical-emergency ketoacidosis, your body has not opened up the ketone metabolism pathways, and thus ketones build up to dangerous levels. In ketosis, your body is able to consume the ketones and thus you get no blood acidification.
In fact some diabetics who stick to a low-carb diet have even dispensed with their insulin shots altogether!
Here's a medical paper on the subject:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3583262/

In reply to SenzuBean:





Thanks I'll take a look at that.


TS

Not all carbs are the same.

Vegetables are mainly carbohydrate.

What we usually mean by carbs is in fact highly processed complex carbs. Such as sugar which is a sucrose/fructose mix, white bread and pasta.

Switch to wholemeal bread and don't use it as your main source of carbohydrate. Cut out pasta. Ramp up fruit and vegetable consumption. The fructose in fruit is fine if you eat the whole fruit and not just drink the juice.

It's a balance. With the key word being LOW.

In reply to Rob Laird:

Hi Rob,
Google The Body Coach and his book is number one called Lean In 15. Great food and lots of it plus loads of 15 minute exercises that can be done at home.
Ive lost 10lbs with it and still have a glass of wine or 3

In reply to DancingOnRock:

I think there's a danger of oversimplification here. For ketosis all carbs count as carbs, not just refined carbs.

Also the upper limit varies from person to person. Some people have to limit themselves to just 5% carbs to stay in ketosis which is not very much at all. For instance if you're consuming 2000 calories per day that's just 100 calories from carbohydrates. I don't think eating bread would be a great idea since a single slice would use up almost your entire day's supply. You'd be much better off eating vegtables for the micronutrients than bread. I think people also limit fruit a lot for the same reason.

In reply to Rob Laird:

It mentions that Neil Gresham is also on a keto diet. There's an article by him here:

http://www.rockandice.com/rock-climbing-training/eat-fat-climb-harder-the-k...

Interestingly I bumped into him at Kilnsey last summer, the same day he did his project. The thing both my friend and I noticed was how ripped he was. Didn't know at the time he was on a keto diet.

In reply to That Shallot:

I too have been following the ketogenic lifestyle (for that's what it is, not just some fad diet) since early December 2015. Before I started (and pretty much continually since), I did an enormous amount of research so that I properly understood what I would be doing to my body in the process of converting my metabolism from a carb burning engine to that of a fat-burner. After 11 weeks on a diet which is 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs (20-30g net carbs per day) I am the leanest I have been since I was in my 20s, I am on target to completely cease the blood pressure medication that I have been taking for 15 years, my energy is constant, I am rarely hungry, my food cravings have gone, as have my gastric wind and IBS symptoms, my lipid profile is excellent, my moods are steady and I feel bloody amazing. I cycle more than I climb these days and, once fully fat adapted (this may take up to a year, patience required!) I expect to be able to rely solely on my fat stores for long steady rides rather than having to constantly refuel with carbs in order to avoid the dreaded bonk. If anybody is considering this lifestyle then the key is research, research, research, watch the videos by Phinney and Volek as well as Peter Attia. For me, it works. For others, that may not be the case.

In reply to dinkypen:

Great to hear you're doing so well! Am I right in thinking that your diet is full of animal products (i.e. dairy, eggs, meat)? That's pretty much the only reason I've not gone back to a keto diet, as it seemed even harder to be keto without animal products.

In reply to SenzuBean:

My diet is very much animal product based, yes. However, a vegan keto diet is very doable and there are some excellent resources on the internet if you Google 'vegan ketogenic diet'.

In reply to dinkypen:

I'm 3 weeks in and last week was when I felt pretty much back to normal as far as my climbing is concerned, and maybe better as I'm a little lighter and still feel fairly strong. Not really missing carbs, but it'll be interesting to see how I feel next month when I'm off to north wales for a few days

In reply to Rob Laird:


If you are doing intense work then there is no reason not to increase CHO intake. Once keto-adapted you should have a degree of metabolic flexibility.

In reply to dinkypen:
Excellent work.

I've recently hit the 12 % Body fat mark and am now at 67.5 Kg I've lost 10 Kg or 22.2 pounds old money since 1 st Dec 2015

I look friggin amazing without a top on.
Are they making any follow ups to 300 ?

Might audition for a role as a Spartan

And all before I'm 40 next week !

TS

In reply to Rob Laird:

RE Type 1 diabetes and low/zero carb diets: check out the book by Dr Bernstein. Bernstein's is basically a zero carb diet for people with Diabetes. In my experience it is very effective and safe for Blood Glucose control and weight loss. IMHO Low carb is the way forward if you have diabetes.

In reply to dinkypen:


cor blimey! If only I'd googled that earlier. Looks totally doable - will actually give it a shot.

In reply to That Shallot:

Bloody fine work there, matey! It's ace being able to stuff your face with healthy fats and still lose weight, isn't it! I am now at the point where I just need to maintain by weight. I am 5'2" and 52 kgs (8st) which is about perfect for me. I am allowing myself a bit more flexibility in what I am eating now and think I have found my 'sweet spot' at 40-50g net carbs a day.

In reply to SenzuBean:

Yay! I also use Pinterest for recipe ideas and inspiration. There are some very helpful Facebook groups too on which there are vegan members. Take a look at Keto-Adaptation and Keto Diet Support Group for starters.

In reply to jlury:

Not sure about Type 1, but without doubt Type 2 diabetes is reversed on a LCHF diet. This is a particularly useful article http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/diabetes-treatment.html

In reply to DancingOnRock:


Root vegetables yes, leafy green veggies no


Unfortunately, if you are following a ketogenic diet then fruit is out. Fructose cannot be metabolized anywhere but the liver therefore it refills liver glycogen rapidly and is guaranteed to take you out of ketosis. The exception to the rule is berries, but even those should be eaten in moderation.

In reply to dinkypen:


I've done a few keto diets in the past for a few months at a time so have a pretty good idea of what to do. But I've since become vegan and thought I'd have to give up the keto diet to do so - but I'm inspired now to give it a go.
I'll check out those groups though - sounds really good.

In reply to dinkypen:


Definitely right there.
I developed a real addiction to almonds and all nuts in general. Strange I'd never really bothered with anything other than dry roasted peanuts before but I just went and still am mental on smoked almonds and pecans in particular. When I eat I really eat but as you say its all healthy clean foods.
That said I'm now trying to maintain my weight at this level but I'm struggling to consume enough and am still loosing weight as I never feel that hungry.


Yeah I aimed for 50 grams a day but now I'm increasing to around 100 .

PS: How did were your sleep patterns effected by the diet ?
I hardly sleep more than 5 hours nowadays which is great for productivity.



TS

In reply to dinkypen:



Leafy green vegetables are also made of carbohydrate I'm afraid. This is bound with fibre so is released very slowly. And as you say - berries.

You need carbohydrate. If you we in true full ketosis you'd eventually fall into a coma.

My point was that people really should read up and understand what they're doing before starting one of these diets.

In reply to DancingOnRock:


Really? Are you confusing ketosis with ketoacidosis?

In reply to DancingOnRock:


Almost all veggies have some carb content, of course. But you do know the difference between net carb content and total carb content of foods, I assume? If so, you'll be aware that the net carb content (you know, total carbs less fibre) of a serving (approx 5oz) of spinach is 2g. The net carb content of a 1 medium white potato is approx 28g


You're talking about ketoacidosis, not ketosis. There is a very big difference between the two and you'd do well to understand what this is! http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/ketoacidosis.html


My point is people really should read up and understand what ketogenic nutrition is before they make themselves look a wee bit daft!

In reply to dinkypen:

Indeed.

As I'll point out again. LOW carb.

Sorry if you think that is daft.

In reply to dinkypen:


I'm all for doing research, but a quick glance through that website leaves quite a bit to be desired. For example, under its 'debunking of myths" section it mentions that the Inuit of Alaska survive for long periods "without" carbs, which is not true (Carbohydrates form 15-20% of the 'typical' Inuit diet, which is a long way from 'zero').

I think people would be well advised to discuss starting a diet like this with a qualified medical professional, rather than suspect internet resources penned by 'enthusiasts'.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Would you recommend that advice be generalised to pretty much everybody, whatever they eat? I mean I have obese colleagues who's diet I'd describe as incredibly poor (and the physiques to go with it), but their diets would be definitely what you'd call mainstream with foodstuffs that would be very familiar and popular.

Why pick on a low carb diet with attendant advice to seek help from a 'qualified medical professional' when people follow a diet of Crunchy Nut cornflakes, skimmed milk, mars bars, colas/sodas, ready made sandwiches for lunch (including margarine and low fat cheese), evening meals of ready made pizza, and no one bats an eyelid? Even thought said person is wallowing around at 50% bodyfat and rasping as s/he climbs in to a lift.

If you are eating a diet of simple foods meat (including offal), fish, nuts, veg and fruit, I don't think you can go far wrong. Especially if your eat a broad range of foods and entertain some kind of seasonal emphasis. There'd be some concern about eliminating ALL foods from a certain (simple food) foodgroup like starches, but I still see LC as preferable to the modern cafeteria diet.

In reply to Shani:


Because that's what's under discussion. If you want to start a thread on "mainstream diets of my obese colleagues", I will happily suggest that they see a doctor about their diet.

In reply to Shani:

"Nobody bats an eyelid."

Really?

In reply to planetmarshall:


Ok, I get it, but if the OP decides to go back to his previous diet, would you recommend that he consult a 'qualified medical professional' about it (assuming he hasn't already done so)?

In reply to planetmarshall:


Unfortunately 'qualified medical professionals' know very little about ketogenic nutrition. Even my own doc confused ketosis with ketoacidosis! As for 'suspect internet resources penned by enthusiasts', let's not ignore the scientific evidence shall we and the studies done by Phinney and Volek (do take a look at youtube.com/watch?v=yP6DtqmZ3Mw& and also take the time to watch the videos of Peter Attia et al), papers such as this one on "Long-term effects of a ketogenic diet in obese patients" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/ and others that I could link to. A nutritional regime such as ketogenic nutrition should not be entered into without thorough research and a proper understanding of what it involves. Fortunately more and more scientific studies are becoming available which is great to see.

In reply to Shani:


If his body had since adapted to a ketogenic diet, then yes I think medical advice would be wise. I'm no medical expert, but my fairly brief research into this area is that some fairly major changes to the body's metabolism are involved and that merits careful consideration - especially if other hormonal imbalances such as diabetes are involved.

In reply to dinkypen:


Well that's a massive generalisation right there. The ketogenic diet was invented by a medical professional for treatment of epilepsy, so there is at least one who knows a great deal about ketogenic nutrition. I'm happy to look over scientific evidence about the long term effects of such a diet, but I know the difference between scientific evidence and evangelism.

In reply to planetmarshall:

I don't think the issue needs over-complicating.

The body is highly adaptive. The body can generate its requirement of glucose (mainly for the brain), via gluconeogenesis. One imagines that seasonal variation in the availability of CHO gave rise to this adaption and so ketosis wouldn't have been unknown of in our ancestral past.

Surely it's just simpler to follow a sensible, balanced diet of

1) fresh vegetables
2) oily fish
3) lean protein and complex carbs
4) pig snacks
5) Taylor's Landlord

Numbers 1 to 3 can be replaced with Haribo

In reply to planetmarshall:


Sorry, when you said "you would be well advised to discuss starting a diet like this with a qualified medical professional", I assumed you were referring to one's GP and not some research specialist that, as you quite rightly say, was one of the first to discover the enormous benefits of keto nutrition in the treatment of epilepsy. Unfortunately it is a fact that very few GPs are up to speed with ketogenic nutrition, which is a shame when this way of life has been proved to reverse type 2 diabetes, solve issues with metabolic syndrome, have a positive effect on various neurological conditions such as Alzheimers and Parkinsons, alleviates depression, resolves IBS issues etc etc .... imagine how much pressure could be taken off the NHS if GPS realised that a mere change in nutrition could help their patients?! Evangelising? If pointing out the documented and scientifically proved benefits of keto nutrition is evangelising then I am guilty as charged.
I'm happy to look over scientific evidence about the long term effects of such a diet, but I know the difference between scientific evidence and evangelism.

In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

Shuddup you! It's your fault for pointing me to this thread in the first place! I'd replace no. 5 with a good bottle of red, if you don't mind

In reply to Rob Laird:
Don't


Don't follow it myself but I have a mate who 'Everests' on the bike on no carbs whatsoever. He probably been eating a fat burning diet for 12-18 months prior to these death defying feats of physiological 'impossibility'. I'd imagine some people are genetically engineered that way - theres probably some metabolic / diet variability across body types. He gets mild to severe depression and gets fat if he goes back on the bread and pasta.

D

In reply to Dauphin:

Well nearly a month in, and I'm pretty happy with everything. It's not for everyone, but personally I don't see anything wrong with it. I've not lost much weight (1-2 kgs I think) and I'm climbing the same, if not better than before.

I didn't jump into this blind, I read a lot of research on the subject and spoke to some people who have done it.