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Hello hive mind. Any recommendations for a flask for Scottish winter please. If you don't mind I'd appreciate a why as well as which.
In reply to puppythedog:
What: Thermos Ultimate Stainless Steel Flask - 800 ml.
Why: I've had mine several years, it has been used and abused but is still in great condition. I bought it for use in winter and whilst out with MR. I've yet to have a cold drink from this flask. I binned the plastic rubbery things which seemed to have little effect. It's never leaked either which is a nice bonus! I've recommended them to several friends, all who seem content with their purchase.
I hope that helps!
What: Thermos Ultimate Stainless Steel Flask - 800 ml.
Why: I've had mine several years, it has been used and abused but is still in great condition. I bought it for use in winter and whilst out with MR. I've yet to have a cold drink from this flask. I binned the plastic rubbery things which seemed to have little effect. It's never leaked either which is a nice bonus! I've recommended them to several friends, all who seem content with their purchase.
I hope that helps!
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In reply to puppythedog:
Without doubt, a Zojirushi.
I've had one for 20 years and it still outperforms everything else. Fantastic!
Without doubt, a Zojirushi.
I've had one for 20 years and it still outperforms everything else. Fantastic!
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In reply to puppythedog:
The Stanley hip flasks are well made, and come in a number of sizes, perfect for that bit of whisky you fancy in the teeth of a storm.
The Stanley hip flasks are well made, and come in a number of sizes, perfect for that bit of whisky you fancy in the teeth of a storm.
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In reply to LG-Mark:
I got one of them. With a flip lid. Fantastic. If anything they keep the drink too hot!
I got one of them. With a flip lid. Fantastic. If anything they keep the drink too hot!
In reply to puppythedog:
I recently bought a THERMOcafe from Tesco. £15 (sale price £7)
It's the best stainless steel flask I've had and is still piping hot after 6 hours, which is normally when I take a coffee break in the hills, and even after a whole day it is still hot. Obviously you know that you should pre heat any flask with boiling water before filling it?
I recently bought a THERMOcafe from Tesco. £15 (sale price £7)
It's the best stainless steel flask I've had and is still piping hot after 6 hours, which is normally when I take a coffee break in the hills, and even after a whole day it is still hot. Obviously you know that you should pre heat any flask with boiling water before filling it?
In reply to Glyno:
I know my Zojirushi is so good because I also have a large Stanley flask, cheapo flasks that the kids use and compare them to my pals flasks.
Also look out for internet reviews, Zojirushi really are the best out there.
I know my Zojirushi is so good because I also have a large Stanley flask, cheapo flasks that the kids use and compare them to my pals flasks.
Also look out for internet reviews, Zojirushi really are the best out there.
In reply to puppythedog:
The Zor' is good if you can find a UK seller, or for off the shelf Lifeventure flasks are good, sold many up here for Scottish winters & even use one myself, leave one in car boot with coffee in (leave the milk out) & car gets frozen at CG & coffee nice & hot 8hrs later, warm at 10hrs later
The Zor' is good if you can find a UK seller, or for off the shelf Lifeventure flasks are good, sold many up here for Scottish winters & even use one myself, leave one in car boot with coffee in (leave the milk out) & car gets frozen at CG & coffee nice & hot 8hrs later, warm at 10hrs later
In reply to puppythedog:
£4 from Morrisons. Good insulation and lid system, works well with gloves
https://airdrierambler.wordpress.com/reviews/gear-reviews/on-the-go-flask/
£4 from Morrisons. Good insulation and lid system, works well with gloves
https://airdrierambler.wordpress.com/reviews/gear-reviews/on-the-go-flask/
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In reply to iksander:
Good info here. Bought a cheapo flask from Asda last week. Its rubbish. Cold after two hours. Its going back for a refund tomorrow (I hope). Serves me right for bein a cheapskate! Id buy a Stanley but you could get a hernia carrying one! Like the look of the Morrisons one but its kinda small. Do they do a bigger size?
Good info here. Bought a cheapo flask from Asda last week. Its rubbish. Cold after two hours. Its going back for a refund tomorrow (I hope). Serves me right for bein a cheapskate! Id buy a Stanley but you could get a hernia carrying one! Like the look of the Morrisons one but its kinda small. Do they do a bigger size?
In reply to jimbob1992:
The Thermos Ultimate is an excellent flask; tough, light and keeps drink very hot all day.
The Thermos Ultimate is an excellent flask; tough, light and keeps drink very hot all day.
In reply to Trangia:
Seems so obvious when you read it, but I don't think I did.
> Obviously you know that you should pre heat any flask with boiling water before filling it?
Seems so obvious when you read it, but I don't think I did.
In reply to allanscott:
It is and they don't. But it's big enough for one. My tactic is to drink 1-1.5 litres before setting off
> Like the look of the Morrisons one but its kinda small. Do they do a bigger size?
It is and they don't. But it's big enough for one. My tactic is to drink 1-1.5 litres before setting off
In reply to puppythedog:
I've used a fair selection over the years but recently got an Ecovessel Boulder and it has surpassed any previous models.
http://www.ecovessel.com/boulder-insulated-water-bottle-with-tea-fruit-ice-...
Whilst it undoubtedly keeps the contents hot for hours the best part especially for Scottish winter is that you can drink directly from the flask, no faffing around with the cup. The drinking spout works really well since it is plastic and doesn't burn you lips. Highly recommended.
However I got mine in the US, I believe http://abrands.co.uk/#our-brands are the UK importer
looks like you can get them here http://www.outdoorgb.com/c/Flasks_Bottles_Water_Containers/?q=&p=1&...
Not the cheapest but worth it imho
I've used a fair selection over the years but recently got an Ecovessel Boulder and it has surpassed any previous models.
http://www.ecovessel.com/boulder-insulated-water-bottle-with-tea-fruit-ice-...
Whilst it undoubtedly keeps the contents hot for hours the best part especially for Scottish winter is that you can drink directly from the flask, no faffing around with the cup. The drinking spout works really well since it is plastic and doesn't burn you lips. Highly recommended.
However I got mine in the US, I believe http://abrands.co.uk/#our-brands are the UK importer
looks like you can get them here http://www.outdoorgb.com/c/Flasks_Bottles_Water_Containers/?q=&p=1&...
Not the cheapest but worth it imho
In reply to puppythedog:
Whatever choice you make, I highly recommend a screw top over a push button top, especially if you are likely to put milky drinks into it. Screw tops are easier to wash, and the inner workings of a push button top that isn't kept scrupulously clean are enough to put you off hot drinks for a while.
Screw tops are easier to open with big gloves on, too.
Whatever choice you make, I highly recommend a screw top over a push button top, especially if you are likely to put milky drinks into it. Screw tops are easier to wash, and the inner workings of a push button top that isn't kept scrupulously clean are enough to put you off hot drinks for a while.
Screw tops are easier to open with big gloves on, too.
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In reply to puppythedog:
I rather think that size is important.. Sigh.
Big flasks seem to be more efficient than small ones. The best I have without a doubt, happens to be huge, ancient and made by Camping Gaz. It was also unfortunately created by a blind product designer who managed to conceive the most hideous camping gaz blue and corrugated stainless steel monstrosity you ever did see (with little white snowflakes for decoration as a finishing touch). It does however keep things hot - for 24 hours if you don't open it. It's been all over the world since 1984, and has served up scalding hot tea after 8 hours at -25.
I've got a variety of others - frankly I'm not too sure how to spot good from poor - I have a Primus one that I would have thought was decent - not so, but maybe it's the size thing again.
I rather think that size is important.. Sigh.
Big flasks seem to be more efficient than small ones. The best I have without a doubt, happens to be huge, ancient and made by Camping Gaz. It was also unfortunately created by a blind product designer who managed to conceive the most hideous camping gaz blue and corrugated stainless steel monstrosity you ever did see (with little white snowflakes for decoration as a finishing touch). It does however keep things hot - for 24 hours if you don't open it. It's been all over the world since 1984, and has served up scalding hot tea after 8 hours at -25.
I've got a variety of others - frankly I'm not too sure how to spot good from poor - I have a Primus one that I would have thought was decent - not so, but maybe it's the size thing again.
In reply to puppythedog:
TESCO or basic stainless steel one.
In my experience there is little difference between really expensive and cheap and you would achieve more burying a cheap one in the middle of your rucksack than an expensive one on the top.
Wrap duck tape roughly around it a few times, so you get a grip when holding it with gloves, but not WHITE duct tape!
TESCO or basic stainless steel one.
In my experience there is little difference between really expensive and cheap and you would achieve more burying a cheap one in the middle of your rucksack than an expensive one on the top.
Wrap duck tape roughly around it a few times, so you get a grip when holding it with gloves, but not WHITE duct tape!
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In reply to puppythedog:
I picked up a 500ml screwtop Thermos flask in Morrisons the other week for £3 in the sale. It was working really well in Scotland last week. The trick to keeping my coffee warm seems to be 'priming' the flask with boiling water before filling it with coffee.
I picked up a 500ml screwtop Thermos flask in Morrisons the other week for £3 in the sale. It was working really well in Scotland last week. The trick to keeping my coffee warm seems to be 'priming' the flask with boiling water before filling it with coffee.
In reply to puppythedog:
What: Don't bother
Why: they're heavy (and therefore slow you down) and sitting around for 10 minutes to have a hot drink is a waste of time and you get cold. Keep moving instead and warm up that way.
What: Don't bother
Why: they're heavy (and therefore slow you down) and sitting around for 10 minutes to have a hot drink is a waste of time and you get cold. Keep moving instead and warm up that way.
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In reply to ianstevens:
They don't weight that much and the moral boosting properties of a hot Ribena whilst sat in a bothy bag, working out how to get down far outweighs (geddit) the negatives.....
They don't weight that much and the moral boosting properties of a hot Ribena whilst sat in a bothy bag, working out how to get down far outweighs (geddit) the negatives.....
In reply to puppythedog:
Another vote for the Thermos Ultimate. Drinks are still piping hot 24 hours later, and I have sometimes found them drinkable 2 days later!
Another vote for the Thermos Ultimate. Drinks are still piping hot 24 hours later, and I have sometimes found them drinkable 2 days later!
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In reply to galpinos:
Just my opinion! A quick search suggest the Thermos Ultimate (first one I copied) is 300g, then add 500g of liquid, so about 8-10% of the total weight of my pack for a day of Scottish winter climbing. In terms of working out how to get down, I tend to either a) know the way from experince and/or b) have the bearing I need already put into my compass to avoid getting the map out at the top of a route. I appreciate however, as a young chap I can steam around the hills at top speed in crap weather, an ability I may start to loose once I get a bit older; then I might appreciate a flask!
> They don't weight that much and the moral boosting properties of a hot Ribena whilst sat in a bothy bag, working out how to get down far outweighs (geddit) the negatives.....
Just my opinion! A quick search suggest the Thermos Ultimate (first one I copied) is 300g, then add 500g of liquid, so about 8-10% of the total weight of my pack for a day of Scottish winter climbing. In terms of working out how to get down, I tend to either a) know the way from experince and/or b) have the bearing I need already put into my compass to avoid getting the map out at the top of a route. I appreciate however, as a young chap I can steam around the hills at top speed in crap weather, an ability I may start to loose once I get a bit older; then I might appreciate a flask!
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In reply to ianstevens:
Do you not carry any liquid at all? Better 500g of hot Ribena than 500g of baltic water!
Cheeky f**ker!
> ........then add 500g of liquid,
Do you not carry any liquid at all? Better 500g of hot Ribena than 500g of baltic water!
> I appreciate however, as a young chap I can steam around the hills at top speed in crap weather, an ability I may start to loose once I get a bit older; then I might appreciate a flask!
Cheeky f**ker!
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In reply to galpinos:
I tend to take about 300-500mL as I find I don't drink very much when its cold; obviously different people work in different ways. Even this I just tend to throw it down my throat whilst belaying (got to love guide mode) rather than at any other time. My Jetboil lives in the car on winter trips, along with a large stash of water, and gets fired up asap to allow for a nice cup of tea whilst changing out of B3s and damp kit.
All meant in good faith And I've also now looked at your profile and seen your age. I think more what I was trying to get at is that some people enjoy spending time in the hills and don't just try and race around them at full pelt - in which case a flask may be nice. No offence intended, if indeed any was taken.
> Do you not carry any liquid at all? Better 500g of hot Ribena than 500g of baltic water!
I tend to take about 300-500mL as I find I don't drink very much when its cold; obviously different people work in different ways. Even this I just tend to throw it down my throat whilst belaying (got to love guide mode) rather than at any other time. My Jetboil lives in the car on winter trips, along with a large stash of water, and gets fired up asap to allow for a nice cup of tea whilst changing out of B3s and damp kit.
> Cheeky f**ker!
All meant in good faith And I've also now looked at your profile and seen your age. I think more what I was trying to get at is that some people enjoy spending time in the hills and don't just try and race around them at full pelt - in which case a flask may be nice. No offence intended, if indeed any was taken.
In reply to puppythedog:
I use a Thermos Element 5 Tumbler, which is pretty bombproof and has a handy clip for attaching with a sling/draw to a belay. I've used this in minus 18 deg C in Norway and my drink/soup made at 06:00 still burnt my mouth at 14:00 each day. As other have said (about the ultimate I think) I've made this the night before in Scotland and it been warm the following afternoon.
Also agree that a flask filled with hot energy drink is a big improvement and much more likely to be actually drunk than some freezing water.
I use a Thermos Element 5 Tumbler, which is pretty bombproof and has a handy clip for attaching with a sling/draw to a belay. I've used this in minus 18 deg C in Norway and my drink/soup made at 06:00 still burnt my mouth at 14:00 each day. As other have said (about the ultimate I think) I've made this the night before in Scotland and it been warm the following afternoon.
Also agree that a flask filled with hot energy drink is a big improvement and much more likely to be actually drunk than some freezing water.
In reply to ianstevens:
And taken in good faith! I really struggle to drink cold water on a winter route/ski your so find hot ribena the only way I can actually get any fluid in me.
I don't actually break out the bothy bag every time I'm out but on a couple of occasions (topping out in bad weather, mentally exhausted from the climb and ski touring when a break was need for some food and drink) getting in a bothy bag with the people you're with to pack the sacs or decide whether to turn back whilst sniffling the last of your chocolate really boosted morale and adding a hot drink to the mix only makes life better!
And taken in good faith! I really struggle to drink cold water on a winter route/ski your so find hot ribena the only way I can actually get any fluid in me.
I don't actually break out the bothy bag every time I'm out but on a couple of occasions (topping out in bad weather, mentally exhausted from the climb and ski touring when a break was need for some food and drink) getting in a bothy bag with the people you're with to pack the sacs or decide whether to turn back whilst sniffling the last of your chocolate really boosted morale and adding a hot drink to the mix only makes life better!
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In reply to ianstevens:
an 8kg pack for a Scottish winter - do tell!
Roughly:
Just under 3kg for a 60m rope
1.2kg for a lightish pair of axes
just under 1kg for crampons
1kg for the rucksack
1 kg for helmet, harness, belay plate and krab
Say 7kg on the basic basics. Add some gear (a set of wires, a set of hexes, some slings, 10 QDs, 6 screws, a bulldog , compulsory 'get out of gaol knife-blade' - split 2 ways- no idea what that lot weighs)
An emergency shelter or some sort, a bit of food for the day. A bit of clothing, gloves, unless you wear the whole lot from car to car)
Maybe a guidebook, map & compass. A phone?
Do tell. For the avoidance of doubt, I can't get close to that.
an 8kg pack for a Scottish winter - do tell!
Roughly:
Just under 3kg for a 60m rope
1.2kg for a lightish pair of axes
just under 1kg for crampons
1kg for the rucksack
1 kg for helmet, harness, belay plate and krab
Say 7kg on the basic basics. Add some gear (a set of wires, a set of hexes, some slings, 10 QDs, 6 screws, a bulldog , compulsory 'get out of gaol knife-blade' - split 2 ways- no idea what that lot weighs)
An emergency shelter or some sort, a bit of food for the day. A bit of clothing, gloves, unless you wear the whole lot from car to car)
Maybe a guidebook, map & compass. A phone?
Do tell. For the avoidance of doubt, I can't get close to that.
In reply to ianstevens:
Are you suggesting being out on the hill without any liquid at all?
Because if not the extra weight of the flask is small compared with the benefit of drinking something hot in winter conditions.
Are you suggesting not stopping at all in the day?
Must be a short day.
Are you suggesting being out on the hill without any liquid at all?
Because if not the extra weight of the flask is small compared with the benefit of drinking something hot in winter conditions.
Are you suggesting not stopping at all in the day?
Must be a short day.
In reply to m0unt41n:
It seems he zooms around and drinks water while belaying in guide mode, which is fair enough.
I remember Norrie Muir posting about sucking on icicles and that kind of thing while winter climbing.
Something hot when it's cold is lovely though.
It seems he zooms around and drinks water while belaying in guide mode, which is fair enough.
I remember Norrie Muir posting about sucking on icicles and that kind of thing while winter climbing.
Something hot when it's cold is lovely though.
Post edited at 14:08
In reply to nniff:
8kg was an estimate - but basically that. Bear in mind a rack of climbing stuff weighs about 4kg, and I've got a DAS Parka for a belay jacket (600g there for example) and it seemed a decent guess. With a DSLR and lens(es) add another kilo or so. I have to admit I haven't weighed my pack in a while, I limit myself to whatever fits in a 28L bag.
m0unt41n: Not any at all, personally I find I drink very little so carry very little. Always potential to fill the bottle with snow and shove it inside the belay jacket to get it to melt if needs dictate. With regards to stopping, I obviously do stop, mainly to rack up/unrack, and to belay. By using guide mode this gives plenty of time for resting/drinking/eating. If you do one route, this generally does result in short (5 hours for 4/5 pitches) days! However I appreciate this is not to everyones taste.
Timmd: Spot on.
8kg was an estimate - but basically that. Bear in mind a rack of climbing stuff weighs about 4kg, and I've got a DAS Parka for a belay jacket (600g there for example) and it seemed a decent guess. With a DSLR and lens(es) add another kilo or so. I have to admit I haven't weighed my pack in a while, I limit myself to whatever fits in a 28L bag.
m0unt41n: Not any at all, personally I find I drink very little so carry very little. Always potential to fill the bottle with snow and shove it inside the belay jacket to get it to melt if needs dictate. With regards to stopping, I obviously do stop, mainly to rack up/unrack, and to belay. By using guide mode this gives plenty of time for resting/drinking/eating. If you do one route, this generally does result in short (5 hours for 4/5 pitches) days! However I appreciate this is not to everyones taste.
Timmd: Spot on.
In reply to nniff:
I've got two different sizes of those ancient, corrugated CampingGaz flasks. They are the very best I've ever seen and as you imply they're pretty indestructible too! If you can get hold of one you're onto a winner!
It's logical that bigger ones keep things hotter for longer: the rate of heat loss depends on the heat flux integrated over the surface of the body. For a given amount of heat removed from that body, the change in its temperature is inversely proportional to its volume. Therefore, a quantity of crucial interest is the ratio of surface area to volume which, irrespective of shape, is dependent on a length dimension i.e. the bigger the flask the less quickly it will decrease in temperature (all other things being equal, of course).
I've got two different sizes of those ancient, corrugated CampingGaz flasks. They are the very best I've ever seen and as you imply they're pretty indestructible too! If you can get hold of one you're onto a winner!
It's logical that bigger ones keep things hotter for longer: the rate of heat loss depends on the heat flux integrated over the surface of the body. For a given amount of heat removed from that body, the change in its temperature is inversely proportional to its volume. Therefore, a quantity of crucial interest is the ratio of surface area to volume which, irrespective of shape, is dependent on a length dimension i.e. the bigger the flask the less quickly it will decrease in temperature (all other things being equal, of course).
In reply to puppythedog:
Thermos ultimate stainless steel flask
Simple, bombproof and really keeps things hot.
Thermos ultimate stainless steel flask
Simple, bombproof and really keeps things hot.
In reply to Timmd:
Ultralight weight aficionados would of course grow their finger and toe nails, coat with resin, sharpen them and ditch the ice axes and crampons saving a couple of kgs.
Ultralight weight aficionados would of course grow their finger and toe nails, coat with resin, sharpen them and ditch the ice axes and crampons saving a couple of kgs.
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In reply to ianstevens:
I'd hate to go out into the wintry hills without something hot to drink, I have a panic if I forget my teabags if doing conservation work outside.
There's something in cycling magazines each winter about it being easier to get dehydrated when it's cold due to the body not producing the same 'thirst' signals as when it's hot.
I'd hate to go out into the wintry hills without something hot to drink, I have a panic if I forget my teabags if doing conservation work outside.
There's something in cycling magazines each winter about it being easier to get dehydrated when it's cold due to the body not producing the same 'thirst' signals as when it's hot.
Post edited at 00:00
In reply to m0unt41n:
What fingers and toes? He lost them to frostbite, but that's okay, he's even lighter now!
What fingers and toes? He lost them to frostbite, but that's okay, he's even lighter now!
In reply to puppythedog:
Hi - I would recommend Esbit flasks from aboveandbeyond - I've had a succession of cheap stainless steel jobs which soon fail to work properly - however my 750mL Esbit http://www.aboveandbeyond.co.uk/products/4260149870209/esbit-0-75-litre-sta... is tough, reliable and keeps drinks warm for 6-12 h
I prefer the solid stopper - the pushbutton type is impossible to clean and is just one more component that might fail
Now - what to put in it? Hot Ribena anyone?
Hi - I would recommend Esbit flasks from aboveandbeyond - I've had a succession of cheap stainless steel jobs which soon fail to work properly - however my 750mL Esbit http://www.aboveandbeyond.co.uk/products/4260149870209/esbit-0-75-litre-sta... is tough, reliable and keeps drinks warm for 6-12 h
I prefer the solid stopper - the pushbutton type is impossible to clean and is just one more component that might fail
Now - what to put in it? Hot Ribena anyone?
In reply to gammarus:
I also have an Esbit flask and it's brilliant. Keeps coffee hot for far longer than I require it to, it has a 'proper' stopper, but the best bit is that - although it's not wide-mouthed - the opening is large enough to stuff a tea towel into and give it a thorough drying after rinsing.
I also have an Esbit flask and it's brilliant. Keeps coffee hot for far longer than I require it to, it has a 'proper' stopper, but the best bit is that - although it's not wide-mouthed - the opening is large enough to stuff a tea towel into and give it a thorough drying after rinsing.
In reply to jimbob1992:
I've just picked up a Thermos ultimate flask 500ml and so far I've been really impressed by the weight, less than my old 300 ML one.
Doing a very sad side by side comparison with the 300 ML and my very old 1 litre job it sits somewhere in between regarding temperature after 15 hours (left overnight basically).
I do get some condensation forming in the cup from steam leaking between the inner and outer screw lids. Anybody else experienced this or do I have a duff model?
I've just picked up a Thermos ultimate flask 500ml and so far I've been really impressed by the weight, less than my old 300 ML one.
Doing a very sad side by side comparison with the 300 ML and my very old 1 litre job it sits somewhere in between regarding temperature after 15 hours (left overnight basically).
I do get some condensation forming in the cup from steam leaking between the inner and outer screw lids. Anybody else experienced this or do I have a duff model?
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