UKC

As per the title - having had a good look through the 2007 SMC Cairngorms guide, as well as the UKC database, the photos on UKC, and the contradictions in the comments for photos of routes at Lurchers, there seems to be an amount of confusion about routes/position on crag (especially regarding K9/Window gully being the same route even though the guide and the database have them as two distinct routes over 100m apart!!)
Over 30 routes on the UKC database, only 12 in the SMC guide...

There was a comment on one photo about the Cicerone guide being better for Lurchers with more detail, and is obviously a bit more up to date for the other areas as well - would anyone care to comment on how much better/more accurate/more detail compared to the SMC one before I think about buying my second guidebook in a week for the same area....?

Cheers,
Gordon

You should check out the SMC new routes documents. There has been quite a bit of development, mainly by Andy Nisbet over the last few years at Lurchers.

http://www.smc.org.uk/downloads/NewRoutes2014.pdf
http://www.smc.org.uk/downloads/NewRoutes2015.pdf

In reply to peebles boy:

Having both books in front of me....

The Cicerone guide has 16 routes at Lurcher's (but not all of the 12 in the SMC guide) and 2 photo topos which are very similar to those in the SMC. Both books are in agreement on the locations of K9 and Window Gully, I think confusion is down to 'user error'! It can be a little tricky to find the correct route as some do look quite similar from below, especially in poor visibility, and the approaches don't give you a long head on view of the crag on the way in.

So probably not worth buying the Cicerone guide just for the extra information about Lurcher's.

In reply to lcullum7:

We all though K9 and Window Gully were different until recently, when John Lyall proved they were the same. I intend to draw an improved topo in the next SMC Journal, as there are around 40 routes there now.

In reply to peebles boy:

I've found the SMC one very good for most Cairngorm crags. Wouldn't buy another personally if you already have one.

In reply to peebles boy:
Window Gully has been shown in the wrong place for a number of years, but it isn't the same as K9. The SMC guidebook shows the wrong line on the photo for K9, it starts correctly but then goes diagonally left to finish up an icefall in a corner. The line shown in the SMC photo for K9 is Window Gully.
The Cicerone guidebook shows K9 correctly, but does get Window Gully wrong. Otherwise it has better photos and more routes.

In reply to peebles boy:

I've just taken over the UKC crag page for Lurchers which is in a bit of a jumble just now due to quite a high rate of new routes having been done. Hopefully I can sort this out soon(ish), maybe with help from a peek at the new topo Andy Nisbet plans to draw up.

In reply to John Lyall:
I'm confused....are you saying that K9 and Window aren't the same climb after all? (thinking here partly of my article in 2015 SMCJ)......

In reply to MadProfessor:


I think he's saying that they are close to each other but the FA of Window Gully climbed the steep ice (via the window) and the shallow gully above. Whereas K9 actually moved left below the steep ice (which hadn't formed), climbed mixed ground into the shallow gully and then finished up an icefall on the left (it may have stayed separate apart from the start). So you could argue that they are variations on the same line, or you could say they are different. Now direct ice lines have been climbed which are completely separate.

In reply to Steve Perry:



And who's *creating* this jumble? Oh the irony

In reply to MadProfessor:
K9 has always been described correctly, but Window Gully was in the wrong place. As Andy says, they share the same first pitch, with Window taking the icefall and easy gully above, while K9 misses the icefall, but makes up for it by avoiding the easy gully and taking in the upper left icefall.

In reply to Sophie G.:


No comment.