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Planning on climbing Tower Ridge Ben Nevis next month. Would like to hear from anyone who has done the route and what protection they used? Don't want to carrying to much climbing gear so any suggestions would be appreciated or advice.
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In reply to Gazza111:
I carry the following:
1 set of nuts
3 or 4 small to medium cams
4 torque nuts/hexes
6 Quickdraws
A few 120 slings
Possibly 1x240 sling
At least a 40m full rope
1 or 2 axes, depending on conditions
I have used ice screws on it once, when very icy.
The route does vary depending on snow (and occasionally ice) conditions, so if the snow is unconsolidated and a bit insecure, I appreciate more gear, if it's good neve all the way, I'll use less of it.
I carry the following:
1 set of nuts
3 or 4 small to medium cams
4 torque nuts/hexes
6 Quickdraws
A few 120 slings
Possibly 1x240 sling
At least a 40m full rope
1 or 2 axes, depending on conditions
I have used ice screws on it once, when very icy.
The route does vary depending on snow (and occasionally ice) conditions, so if the snow is unconsolidated and a bit insecure, I appreciate more gear, if it's good neve all the way, I'll use less of it.
Post edited at 18:55
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In reply to Gazza111:
Like Ken says, super variable. I've done it under deep snow where the only gear available was bucket seats and stompers other than 2 pegs on the eastern traverse and i've also wished I'd taken 4 or 5 screws. I take similar to Ken but always take the 240cm sling and rarely take the cams unless I know its there is going to be bare rock and non icey cracks.
Like Ken says, super variable. I've done it under deep snow where the only gear available was bucket seats and stompers other than 2 pegs on the eastern traverse and i've also wished I'd taken 4 or 5 screws. I take similar to Ken but always take the 240cm sling and rarely take the cams unless I know its there is going to be bare rock and non icey cracks.
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In reply to Gazza111:
From my diary "two large hex's and a couple of slings"
The only dodgy bit I recall was the gap, which when I did it was totally covered in snow, no one had been up it that day, and I hadn't a clue there was a fixed peg or sling in situ. It was only when i saw someone following us I noticed they dug the in situ belay out and used that!!!
From my diary "two large hex's and a couple of slings"
The only dodgy bit I recall was the gap, which when I did it was totally covered in snow, no one had been up it that day, and I hadn't a clue there was a fixed peg or sling in situ. It was only when i saw someone following us I noticed they dug the in situ belay out and used that!!!
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In reply to Dave Perry:
I thought the gap was easy... you can step across it part way down if you are brave. It must have lost a block or two at some stage as it wouldn't now be the obstacle to the pioneers that it once was. Under unconsolidated snow theroute is slow going with a lot of digging. There are usually a few grade III bits... escaping the start gully (you can bypass this gully on the left), Little Tower, Eastern Traverse and the bit up the side of Great Tower. I'm a bit perplexed how an ice screw could be useful as there is no water ice but I'd believe the advice of those who said it sometimes was... conditions up there vary a lot. The biggest hazzard I and my pals found was other people... never underestimate the muppetry you may face... sadly often from soloists, who should know better. The best tool in this respect is the threat of your axe !
I thought the gap was easy... you can step across it part way down if you are brave. It must have lost a block or two at some stage as it wouldn't now be the obstacle to the pioneers that it once was. Under unconsolidated snow theroute is slow going with a lot of digging. There are usually a few grade III bits... escaping the start gully (you can bypass this gully on the left), Little Tower, Eastern Traverse and the bit up the side of Great Tower. I'm a bit perplexed how an ice screw could be useful as there is no water ice but I'd believe the advice of those who said it sometimes was... conditions up there vary a lot. The biggest hazzard I and my pals found was other people... never underestimate the muppetry you may face... sadly often from soloists, who should know better. The best tool in this respect is the threat of your axe !
Post edited at 08:37
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In reply to Offwidth:
Yes it has done, actually.
The first one disappeared from the "landward" side 10/15 years ago, and then the pedestal block on the tower side (that you used to step down onto and across from) fell out in summer 2011 with somebody standing on it at the time IIRC. There was a long thread on here with the details of the rescue that ensued etc.
> It must have lost a block or two at some stage
Yes it has done, actually.
The first one disappeared from the "landward" side 10/15 years ago, and then the pedestal block on the tower side (that you used to step down onto and across from) fell out in summer 2011 with somebody standing on it at the time IIRC. There was a long thread on here with the details of the rescue that ensued etc.
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In reply to KA:
Sounds about OK, although definitely conditions dependent. We did it in good icy conditions and ditched cams and took an ice hook (DMM bulldog). I recall getting this in on the initial tricky chimney and the Little Tower. Belays were good but protection spaced.
Sounds about OK, although definitely conditions dependent. We did it in good icy conditions and ditched cams and took an ice hook (DMM bulldog). I recall getting this in on the initial tricky chimney and the Little Tower. Belays were good but protection spaced.
Post edited at 10:47
In reply to Offwidth:
Not helpful. Not funny.
> The best tool in this respect is the threat of your axe !
Not helpful. Not funny.
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In reply to petestack:
I really don't care... it's even less funny when people crampon your lead ropes, pull on them when they slip etc. If you are competent enough to solo the route when its busy you are competent enough to stay well away from those who are leading or wait until they are safe to pass. If people insist on threatening my safety by messing with my ropes when I am leading I will threaten them in return.
I really don't care... it's even less funny when people crampon your lead ropes, pull on them when they slip etc. If you are competent enough to solo the route when its busy you are competent enough to stay well away from those who are leading or wait until they are safe to pass. If people insist on threatening my safety by messing with my ropes when I am leading I will threaten them in return.
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In reply to MG:
The Ben isn't the alps with the inherent extra risks for late descents for slow parties. There is no excuse on Tower Ridge given the variations that are possible if you run out of time as a soloist... climbing over a leader's ropes is just selfish risky behaviour. One of the reasons I climb a lot in the US is being sick of people in a ridculous hurry on punter rock routes in Europe, adding unneccesary risk to my ascent (and even occasionally trying to kill me).
The Ben isn't the alps with the inherent extra risks for late descents for slow parties. There is no excuse on Tower Ridge given the variations that are possible if you run out of time as a soloist... climbing over a leader's ropes is just selfish risky behaviour. One of the reasons I climb a lot in the US is being sick of people in a ridculous hurry on punter rock routes in Europe, adding unneccesary risk to my ascent (and even occasionally trying to kill me).
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In reply to Gazza111:
Today it was pretty rimey and snowy. I used:
Half of my set of nuts, a yellow hex, a 240cm sling twice, 3 60cm extenders on the Eastern Traverse, 3 120cm slings at one point. Conditions were friendly- weather was awesome and everyone was moving well and allowing overtaking and moving through where appropriate, very sociable: http://alanhalewood.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/the-best-day.html
Today it was pretty rimey and snowy. I used:
Half of my set of nuts, a yellow hex, a 240cm sling twice, 3 60cm extenders on the Eastern Traverse, 3 120cm slings at one point. Conditions were friendly- weather was awesome and everyone was moving well and allowing overtaking and moving through where appropriate, very sociable: http://alanhalewood.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/the-best-day.html
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In reply to Offwidth:
Funny how the muppets are always other people.
> The biggest hazzard I and my pals found was other people... never underestimate the muppetry you may face...
Funny how the muppets are always other people.
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In reply to Offwidth:
Well said. I was pretty shocked last year when attempting such a climb in Wales, when a couple of parties insisted on passing us. The first lot placed plenty of gear but were actually worse at climbing than ourselves. The second were more confident, so much so that the leader only placed a couple of pieces on the entire pitch. Neither party seemed any quicker, so I can't help thinking that if we'd have all just stayed in line then everyone could have got another route in. Sorry all for going off topic.
> The Ben isn't the alps with the inherent extra risks for late descents for slow parties. There is no excuse on Tower Ridge given the variations that are possible if you run out of time as a soloist... climbing over a leader's ropes is just selfish risky behaviour. One of the reasons I climb a lot in the US is being sick of people in a ridculous hurry on punter rock routes in Europe, adding unneccesary risk to my ascent (and even occasionally trying to kill me).
Well said. I was pretty shocked last year when attempting such a climb in Wales, when a couple of parties insisted on passing us. The first lot placed plenty of gear but were actually worse at climbing than ourselves. The second were more confident, so much so that the leader only placed a couple of pieces on the entire pitch. Neither party seemed any quicker, so I can't help thinking that if we'd have all just stayed in line then everyone could have got another route in. Sorry all for going off topic.
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In reply to planetmarshall:
Keep playing to the children. 'Muppets' is if anything a kind description for people on that route with boorish and sometimes dangerous practice. A lot of people moan about slow parties on routes like Tower Ridge but more often than not they are just not crowding a group up front, a group who are usually quite rightly on an early start climbing a route at their limit. If you want the big tick route get up early, dont climb all over everyone else; if you can't get up in time go solo something else or lead something harder at your standard.
Keep playing to the children. 'Muppets' is if anything a kind description for people on that route with boorish and sometimes dangerous practice. A lot of people moan about slow parties on routes like Tower Ridge but more often than not they are just not crowding a group up front, a group who are usually quite rightly on an early start climbing a route at their limit. If you want the big tick route get up early, dont climb all over everyone else; if you can't get up in time go solo something else or lead something harder at your standard.
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In reply to Offwidth:
What, like threatening people with an axe?
> Keep playing to the children. 'Muppets' is if anything a kind description for people on that route with boorish and sometimes dangerous practice.
What, like threatening people with an axe?
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In reply to Offwidth:
Well as ever the conditions in Scotland vary massively.
When I last did tower ridge (which was several years ago and probably more recently than you at a guess) the gap was quite tricky especially getting down in to it but also coming out the other side. The guy I was climbing with was regularly leading harder that you do in Scotland (he lives around Aviemore area) and fell off on second down in to glovers on rope stretch narrowly missing a leader, luckily I had the ropes under control without too much slack and a good enough belay!
I'm sure people have stepped across the gap, although I've never met anyone that's done it and I would say that would require the right conditions and physique and some rather large cojones.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5093/5420868237_cac86bab84_b.jpg
> I thought the gap was easy... you can step across it part way down if you are brave. It must have lost a block or two at some stage as it wouldn't now be the obstacle to the pioneers that it once was. Under unconsolidated snow theroute is slow going with a lot of digging. There are usually a few grade III bits... escaping the start gully (you can bypass this gully on the left), Little Tower, Eastern Traverse and the bit up the side of Great Tower. I'm a bit perplexed how an ice screw could be useful as there is no water ice but I'd believe the advice of those who said it sometimes was... conditions up there vary a lot. The biggest hazzard I and my pals found was other people... never underestimate the muppetry you may face... sadly often from soloists, who should know better. The best tool in this respect is the threat of your axe !
Well as ever the conditions in Scotland vary massively.
When I last did tower ridge (which was several years ago and probably more recently than you at a guess) the gap was quite tricky especially getting down in to it but also coming out the other side. The guy I was climbing with was regularly leading harder that you do in Scotland (he lives around Aviemore area) and fell off on second down in to glovers on rope stretch narrowly missing a leader, luckily I had the ropes under control without too much slack and a good enough belay!
I'm sure people have stepped across the gap, although I've never met anyone that's done it and I would say that would require the right conditions and physique and some rather large cojones.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5093/5420868237_cac86bab84_b.jpg
Post edited at 11:40
In reply to AlH:
I also only take cams if the route is likely to really need them and I think the rock will be properly dry. I find the rock on the ben especially prone to cams slipping when its frosted (let alone cracks chocked with ice). I do often carry tri cams as they can substitute nuts as well as cams and don't weigh much.
There was certainly a short ice step that could have taken an ice screw when I last did TR, but we didn't bring any IIRC.
> Like Ken says, super variable. I've done it under deep snow where the only gear available was bucket seats and stompers other than 2 pegs on the eastern traverse and i've also wished I'd taken 4 or 5 screws. I take similar to Ken but always take the 240cm sling and rarely take the cams unless I know its there is going to be bare rock and non icey cracks.
I also only take cams if the route is likely to really need them and I think the rock will be properly dry. I find the rock on the ben especially prone to cams slipping when its frosted (let alone cracks chocked with ice). I do often carry tri cams as they can substitute nuts as well as cams and don't weigh much.
There was certainly a short ice step that could have taken an ice screw when I last did TR, but we didn't bring any IIRC.
Post edited at 11:38
In reply to CurlyStevo:
In 2010/2011 I stepped off of the flake on the lower part of the Little Tower and by chance had a screw on my harness from the previous day. It turned out to be a good job as it formed the main part of the belay as in the next 30m there was nothing but snow and ice. I used it in the next rope length and again on the Eastern Traverse (the last bit is often poorly protected but there are some ice cracks that can take a screw). Could have used more. I suppose it just shows how variable it can be.
In 2010/2011 I stepped off of the flake on the lower part of the Little Tower and by chance had a screw on my harness from the previous day. It turned out to be a good job as it formed the main part of the belay as in the next 30m there was nothing but snow and ice. I used it in the next rope length and again on the Eastern Traverse (the last bit is often poorly protected but there are some ice cracks that can take a screw). Could have used more. I suppose it just shows how variable it can be.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I'd forgotten the block the other side had gone too since I last did it... it would make the descent a bit harder. Of course in the old days people used weighted ropes and combined tactics when dealing with such obstacles and the gap exit was once way more formidable. The two times I did it I was right next to a slung block (excavated) and the drop down felt easier than say the drop down on Golden Oldie. The first time I did the route a long train of late middle aged soloists climbed all over the usual line of parties that you get in good conditions. The first incident was a soloist who slipped and caught my rope on Little Tower and nearly pulled me off. The second was a group descending into the gap (most who happily used my sling on the upper block to swing down)...one of whom cramponed me and another who half fell and clumped into me. I'd never experienced anything like that before on a winter route. The roped parties in front and behind in contrast were capable and considerate. Most soloists I've met on Scottish winter routes have also been way more considerate and have asked if they can overtake and have tried to follow a line away from other parties.
In reply to Tony
Such threats are only made as a last resort to people who just won't wait and continue to climb over my rope when I'm leading. Maybe you would thank them and make them a nice cup of tea? A guide taught me some tricks to deal with roped idiots who climb over you but soloists who lack the sense to wait or use the many bypass lines sometimes sadly need more direct action.
I'd forgotten the block the other side had gone too since I last did it... it would make the descent a bit harder. Of course in the old days people used weighted ropes and combined tactics when dealing with such obstacles and the gap exit was once way more formidable. The two times I did it I was right next to a slung block (excavated) and the drop down felt easier than say the drop down on Golden Oldie. The first time I did the route a long train of late middle aged soloists climbed all over the usual line of parties that you get in good conditions. The first incident was a soloist who slipped and caught my rope on Little Tower and nearly pulled me off. The second was a group descending into the gap (most who happily used my sling on the upper block to swing down)...one of whom cramponed me and another who half fell and clumped into me. I'd never experienced anything like that before on a winter route. The roped parties in front and behind in contrast were capable and considerate. Most soloists I've met on Scottish winter routes have also been way more considerate and have asked if they can overtake and have tried to follow a line away from other parties.
In reply to Tony
Such threats are only made as a last resort to people who just won't wait and continue to climb over my rope when I'm leading. Maybe you would thank them and make them a nice cup of tea? A guide taught me some tricks to deal with roped idiots who climb over you but soloists who lack the sense to wait or use the many bypass lines sometimes sadly need more direct action.
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In reply to Offwidth:
Are you for real? Seriously? Threatening to hit people with an ice axe at Tower Gap? Just because a guide taught you a few tricks doesn't mean it's a good idea. Frankly, it makes you sound like an out-of-control psychopath. Then again, if that's the image you want to portray ...
> In reply to Tony
> Such threats are only made as a last resort to people who just won't wait and continue to climb over my rope when I'm leading.
Are you for real? Seriously? Threatening to hit people with an ice axe at Tower Gap? Just because a guide taught you a few tricks doesn't mean it's a good idea. Frankly, it makes you sound like an out-of-control psychopath. Then again, if that's the image you want to portray ...
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In reply to Offwidth:
I don't believe you threaten people with ice axes or would actually hit them if you do. But even the thought of pointless empty threats in such situations is disturbing, so hoping it's just UKC bluster entrenched by your repeated attempts to defend the indefensible because otherwise you come out of this even worse than I thought!
> Such threats are only made as a last resort to people who just won't wait and continue to climb over my rope when I'm leading. Maybe you would thank them and make them a nice cup of tea? A guide taught me some tricks to deal with roped idiots who climb over you but soloists who lack the sense to wait or use the many bypass lines sometimes sadly need more direct action.
I don't believe you threaten people with ice axes or would actually hit them if you do. But even the thought of pointless empty threats in such situations is disturbing, so hoping it's just UKC bluster entrenched by your repeated attempts to defend the indefensible because otherwise you come out of this even worse than I thought!
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In reply to Offwidth:
Listen to yourself - "lemmings, muppets, middle aged, soloists, threats, direct action, ice-axes..."
Armed combat on Tower Ridge FFS!
Listen to yourself - "lemmings, muppets, middle aged, soloists, threats, direct action, ice-axes..."
Armed combat on Tower Ridge FFS!
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In reply to Offwidth:
Instead of inflaming the situation with aggression how about using some positive reinforcement instead?
Give the polite soloists a small treat to reward good behaviour (say, chocolate flapjack or a mini pork pie would do nicely) and just ignore the others when they're acting up.
Works great with puppies.
Instead of inflaming the situation with aggression how about using some positive reinforcement instead?
Give the polite soloists a small treat to reward good behaviour (say, chocolate flapjack or a mini pork pie would do nicely) and just ignore the others when they're acting up.
Works great with puppies.
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In reply to elliptic:
Oh great! So we can expect TR to be even more crowded now; I know loads of people who'd solo it if they thought there were free flapjacks and pork pies on offer
> Give the polite soloists a small treat to reward good behaviour (say, chocolate flapjack or a mini pork pie would do nicely).
Oh great! So we can expect TR to be even more crowded now; I know loads of people who'd solo it if they thought there were free flapjacks and pork pies on offer
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I'm tempted to set up an Aggression Counseling booth (£5/min) and a small Tearoom at Tower Gap.
Sounds like there's good money in it.
Sounds like there's good money in it.
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In reply to Lusk:
Sounds like a good idea, could prevent the Glover's coming off.
> I'm tempted to set up an Aggression Counseling booth (£5/min) and a small Tearoom at Tower Gap.
Sounds like a good idea, could prevent the Glover's coming off.
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In reply to MG:
They were a train of late middle aged soloists, I expected people like that to know better. I climb with a lot of people that age, including one of the most prolific older winter and summer soloists in Wales and they don't behave anything like these muppets did. They give solo climbers a bad name. I guess their attitude comes from transferring alpine rudeness and bad practice back into the UK. Do you climb all over other climbers ropes when leading or think it is ever a good idea?
I do congratulate you all for your saintliness but if someone fu**s with my rope when I'm leading, I do get angry. The point of any threat, if polite requests (that shouldn't have been required in the first place) don't work, is an escalation to try and make people stop and think. Would I actually hit someone... almost certainly not.
Sometimes karma kicks in... a guy trying to stupidly overtake me on Green Gully responded early and waited (before any serious threats) and when a crampon fell off on the cornice I was there to help him over.
They were a train of late middle aged soloists, I expected people like that to know better. I climb with a lot of people that age, including one of the most prolific older winter and summer soloists in Wales and they don't behave anything like these muppets did. They give solo climbers a bad name. I guess their attitude comes from transferring alpine rudeness and bad practice back into the UK. Do you climb all over other climbers ropes when leading or think it is ever a good idea?
I do congratulate you all for your saintliness but if someone fu**s with my rope when I'm leading, I do get angry. The point of any threat, if polite requests (that shouldn't have been required in the first place) don't work, is an escalation to try and make people stop and think. Would I actually hit someone... almost certainly not.
Sometimes karma kicks in... a guy trying to stupidly overtake me on Green Gully responded early and waited (before any serious threats) and when a crampon fell off on the cornice I was there to help him over.
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In reply to Offwidth:
On the other thread you were asking for examples of the dislike button working. Take a look at your count here. You are way out of line.
On the other thread you were asking for examples of the dislike button working. Take a look at your count here. You are way out of line.
Post edited at 20:33
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In reply to MG:
Every now and then when not better occupied, but increasingly few times per year, I take a look at UKC to see whether the nutter-count here has died down at all, whether the forum is any less dominated by rude aggressive testosterone-crazed-blowhard-type arguments than it used to be, and whether, if so, it might be worth coming back on a bit more frequently.
That would be another no, then
Every now and then when not better occupied, but increasingly few times per year, I take a look at UKC to see whether the nutter-count here has died down at all, whether the forum is any less dominated by rude aggressive testosterone-crazed-blowhard-type arguments than it used to be, and whether, if so, it might be worth coming back on a bit more frequently.
That would be another no, then
Post edited at 21:50
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PS to the OP: Tower Ridge in winter is good with a lightish rack and a single 70-metre rope so you can string it out and run light and fast over the easy stuff, but double it up and do 35-metre pitches with (as it were) 2 ropes if the climbing turns tricksy on you, as it definitely can (esp. in powder, esp. between the Eastern Traverse and the top of the Great Tower). Take some slings you don't mind never seeing again, and don't bother with screws unless it's late season and there really has been loads of freeze-thaw (as there has this winter). Move as fast as possible, don't let yourselves get stuck behind other parties, take spare headtorches with new batteries, and memorise how to get off the plateau before you set off.
Oh, and don't believe people who tell you you can't retreat off Tower Ridge if you need to. Of course you can. Just wave goodbye to one of those slings I was talking about, and rap off into Observatory Gully wherever it looks okay. (Taking the usual care about setting up the belay, and about not abseiling onto dodgy windslab etc. etc.) Once again, a long rope is your friend here.
Above all, enjoy it. In normal conditions it isn't terribly taxing, but in any conditions it is a long and marvellous adventure that, once you've done, you will always dream of repeating
Post edited at 22:09
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In reply to Sophie G.:
Agreed, it's the main reason that I rarely post here.
It's a shame that a small group of posters can derail most good threads and drive away many potentially high quality contributors in the process.
Agreed, it's the main reason that I rarely post here.
It's a shame that a small group of posters can derail most good threads and drive away many potentially high quality contributors in the process.
Post edited at 22:04
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In reply to MG:
Crikey - on my recent RockTalk thread on 'old times etc' I scored well over 100 dislikes. What must that make me?
(
> Take a look at your count here. You are way out of line<
Crikey - on my recent RockTalk thread on 'old times etc' I scored well over 100 dislikes. What must that make me?
(
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In reply to Offwidth:
Now I know how the gap can be done I'm sure it is easy. But when we did it we had no idea there was any thing on the block for a handy thread or lower off!!! (1976!!)
Now I know how the gap can be done I'm sure it is easy. But when we did it we had no idea there was any thing on the block for a handy thread or lower off!!! (1976!!)
In reply to Sophie G.:
Nah - I was really shocked by the response. Ii'll learn me to keep my mouth shut on these forums.
Please don't 'Dislike' this post!
Nah - I was really shocked by the response. Ii'll learn me to keep my mouth shut on these forums.
Please don't 'Dislike' this post!
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In reply to Greenbanks:
OK. Just mucking about
Sorry you got a shock. I'm afraid I know from experience not to expect kindness on UKC. It happens sometimes, but you can't rely on it, sadly :-/
OK. Just mucking about
Sorry you got a shock. I'm afraid I know from experience not to expect kindness on UKC. It happens sometimes, but you can't rely on it, sadly :-/
Post edited at 22:38
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In reply to Sophie G.:
In all the time I've been climbing I can't remember a woman climbing agressively over other peoples ropes. Its always men. I dont get threats on routes but have witnessed others getting them and have given a few when people wouldn't back off or stay away from my ropes when I was leading,...all men (and yes, including me). I guess the reason I don't get threats is I don't climb inconsiderately enough to trigger them from others. On the giving side, it was a real close shave in the Dolomites that made me think about my response to others leading up over my ropes (a guy who ignored my polite requests to wait, took a lead fall and shock-loaded my rope seconds after I clipped my belay...I was looking at a ~40m fall into a boulder-field in a gully). This has made my responses and advice less calm than they once were...the macho fools who do this sort of thing seem to find polite requests (relating to other climber's safety) funny distractions. If someone looks less than fully competant and is risking your life by climbing over your lead rope: don't just ignore them and carry on, either challenge them until they stop or make yourself safe as quickly as possible and wait until they have gone.
Both times I climbed Tower Ridge in winter the experience was unpleasant due to boorish and risky male overtaking behaviour. Pretty much every other Europen multipitch route I've done was made less fun by boorish and risky male overtaking behaviour. The multi-pitch stuff in the US is just lovely in comparison and UK multipitch is usually fine (even though, if you are a woman, as has happened to Moff, some man occasionally may offer concerned help to set up your belay; bless!
I have been threatened a few times when not climbing but all these relate to when I've challenged people looking after groups who were clearly and enthusiastically demonstrating practice that was either dangerous or damaging to the rock... they didn't like to be challenged (politely in all cases).... again all men.
In all the time I've been climbing I can't remember a woman climbing agressively over other peoples ropes. Its always men. I dont get threats on routes but have witnessed others getting them and have given a few when people wouldn't back off or stay away from my ropes when I was leading,...all men (and yes, including me). I guess the reason I don't get threats is I don't climb inconsiderately enough to trigger them from others. On the giving side, it was a real close shave in the Dolomites that made me think about my response to others leading up over my ropes (a guy who ignored my polite requests to wait, took a lead fall and shock-loaded my rope seconds after I clipped my belay...I was looking at a ~40m fall into a boulder-field in a gully). This has made my responses and advice less calm than they once were...the macho fools who do this sort of thing seem to find polite requests (relating to other climber's safety) funny distractions. If someone looks less than fully competant and is risking your life by climbing over your lead rope: don't just ignore them and carry on, either challenge them until they stop or make yourself safe as quickly as possible and wait until they have gone.
Both times I climbed Tower Ridge in winter the experience was unpleasant due to boorish and risky male overtaking behaviour. Pretty much every other Europen multipitch route I've done was made less fun by boorish and risky male overtaking behaviour. The multi-pitch stuff in the US is just lovely in comparison and UK multipitch is usually fine (even though, if you are a woman, as has happened to Moff, some man occasionally may offer concerned help to set up your belay; bless!
I have been threatened a few times when not climbing but all these relate to when I've challenged people looking after groups who were clearly and enthusiastically demonstrating practice that was either dangerous or damaging to the rock... they didn't like to be challenged (politely in all cases).... again all men.
Post edited at 09:39
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In reply to Greenbanks:
I still don't get what you did to rouse such a mob. Lemming and I did challenge dislikes directly so we expected the children to sulk and the jokers to have fun.
I still don't get what you did to rouse such a mob. Lemming and I did challenge dislikes directly so we expected the children to sulk and the jokers to have fun.
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In reply to Offwidth:
What's that got to do with anything? You do realise that Sophie G is a pseudonym and is a man?
> In all the time I've been climbing I can't remember a woman climbing agressively over other peoples ropes. Its always men.
What's that got to do with anything? You do realise that Sophie G is a pseudonym and is a man?
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In reply to tony:
Doesn't look like a man to me.
Offwidth I think you are bang on to be fair. I can honestly say If someone stood on my ropes with crampons on i wouldn't say a word, i would just hit them. You obviously have alot more patience than I do..
Most of the people I have been on routes with are very carefull not to do silly things.
Doesn't look like a man to me.
Offwidth I think you are bang on to be fair. I can honestly say If someone stood on my ropes with crampons on i wouldn't say a word, i would just hit them. You obviously have alot more patience than I do..
Most of the people I have been on routes with are very carefull not to do silly things.
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In reply to Offwidth:
"think about my response to others leading up over my ropes"
Unless they actively grab it, which would be pretty out of order, isn't a party going under the lead ropes normally the issue here?
"Both times I climbed Tower Ridge in winter the experience was unpleasant due to boorish and risky male overtaking behaviour"
Sounds like you need to get a bit more slick, when I did Tower Ridge on a blue skies Sunday in perfect conditions no one came close to over taking us :P
"think about my response to others leading up over my ropes"
Unless they actively grab it, which would be pretty out of order, isn't a party going under the lead ropes normally the issue here?
"Both times I climbed Tower Ridge in winter the experience was unpleasant due to boorish and risky male overtaking behaviour"
Sounds like you need to get a bit more slick, when I did Tower Ridge on a blue skies Sunday in perfect conditions no one came close to over taking us :P
Post edited at 10:16
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
I was waiting patiently for others I caught up with. I'm aware of the protocols and what I experienced was worse than breaches of those. I can happily negotiate with faster roped parties at belays and have no problems with efficient solists on a ridge who stay out of my way. Tower Ridge seemed to me like a magnet for macho muppets choosing a line to be in a massive rush to demonstrate poor practice on. A route which, on a good day, was aways going to be up with the busiest routes on the mountain. Others in my club had similar problems on different good days.
In reply to Tony
If more women were on UKC and winter climbing in the UK I suspect both would be a lot more civilised. In volume terms both are sadly male bastions.
I was waiting patiently for others I caught up with. I'm aware of the protocols and what I experienced was worse than breaches of those. I can happily negotiate with faster roped parties at belays and have no problems with efficient solists on a ridge who stay out of my way. Tower Ridge seemed to me like a magnet for macho muppets choosing a line to be in a massive rush to demonstrate poor practice on. A route which, on a good day, was aways going to be up with the busiest routes on the mountain. Others in my club had similar problems on different good days.
In reply to Tony
If more women were on UKC and winter climbing in the UK I suspect both would be a lot more civilised. In volume terms both are sadly male bastions.
Post edited at 10:37
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In reply to Offwidth:
Yup, maybe they wouldn't be threatening people with axes. Maybe it's that kind of behaviour that puts some people off.
> In reply to Tony
> If more women were on UKC and winter climbing in the UK I suspect both would be a lot more civilised. In volume terms both are sadly male bastions.
Yup, maybe they wouldn't be threatening people with axes. Maybe it's that kind of behaviour that puts some people off.
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In reply to Offwidth:
"A route which, on a good day, was aways going to be up with the busiest routes on the mountain. Others in my club had similar problems on different good days"
There is a simple solution to this which has worked for winter mountaineers for decades, get up earlier and walk in faster!
"A route which, on a good day, was aways going to be up with the busiest routes on the mountain. Others in my club had similar problems on different good days"
There is a simple solution to this which has worked for winter mountaineers for decades, get up earlier and walk in faster!
Post edited at 10:49
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In reply to Sophie G.:
Formerly known as ...
> Wrong on both counts. And more reasons not to be on here.
Formerly known as ...
In reply to Offwidth:
It zoomed right over your head then, when Sophie G cited your own post above as a perfect example of why she doesn't have more of a presence on here? Ironic. If you want UKC to be more civilised then you're in a better position to move it in that direction that than most; start by cutting out your own macho belligerence.
> If more women were on UKC and winter climbing in the UK I suspect both would be a lot more civilised. In volume terms both are sadly male bastions.
It zoomed right over your head then, when Sophie G cited your own post above as a perfect example of why she doesn't have more of a presence on here? Ironic. If you want UKC to be more civilised then you're in a better position to move it in that direction that than most; start by cutting out your own macho belligerence.
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In reply to Gazza111:
Has somebody been slipping something into Offwidths tea? I'm sure he used to be fairly normal.
Has somebody been slipping something into Offwidths tea? I'm sure he used to be fairly normal.
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In reply to deepsoup:
Actually I got what she meant entirely. I am a victim of my own 'testosterone' at times as I acknowledged. The threat, as I've explained several times (and will fully acknowledge that I should have been better explained up front) is a last resort (and a bluff in my case) for people that are adding significant risks to leaders by climbing over their ropes, despite being repeatedly asked to stop... I find it utterly depressing that such threats are needed and have been the only thing sometimes that worked: who other than a macho muppet would regard continuing to climb over someone else's ropes after being asked politely then firmly asked several times to stop as being even remotely an OK thing to do? Tower Ridge is not the Alps: finishing quickly is usually not a safety concern for the descent, there are bypass lines and escapes and fast moving soloists should be staying clear of lead climbers in a queue. On belligerence, it takes both sides but it is a fault of mine whereas being macho most certainly isn't (except in unwanted and unwarranted extremis).
Actually I got what she meant entirely. I am a victim of my own 'testosterone' at times as I acknowledged. The threat, as I've explained several times (and will fully acknowledge that I should have been better explained up front) is a last resort (and a bluff in my case) for people that are adding significant risks to leaders by climbing over their ropes, despite being repeatedly asked to stop... I find it utterly depressing that such threats are needed and have been the only thing sometimes that worked: who other than a macho muppet would regard continuing to climb over someone else's ropes after being asked politely then firmly asked several times to stop as being even remotely an OK thing to do? Tower Ridge is not the Alps: finishing quickly is usually not a safety concern for the descent, there are bypass lines and escapes and fast moving soloists should be staying clear of lead climbers in a queue. On belligerence, it takes both sides but it is a fault of mine whereas being macho most certainly isn't (except in unwanted and unwarranted extremis).
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
True, but I sometimes think some of these pairs must have started before they went to bed the night before!?
True, but I sometimes think some of these pairs must have started before they went to bed the night before!?
In reply to Offwidth:
Personally, when I'm belaying someone, I concentrate on belaying them. I don't tie them off in order to engage in a fist-fight with some passing randomer who's climbing over our rope. I wouldn't do that. It wouldn't be safe for my leader
Personally, when I'm belaying someone, I concentrate on belaying them. I don't tie them off in order to engage in a fist-fight with some passing randomer who's climbing over our rope. I wouldn't do that. It wouldn't be safe for my leader
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In reply to Sophie G.:
Just to be clear, you really are Sophie G now? I honestly thought it was some wierd philosophy experiment with online personas.
Just to be clear, you really are Sophie G now? I honestly thought it was some wierd philosophy experiment with online personas.
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In reply to tony:
Sophie appears to live in the same city, work for the same national organisation, doing exactly the same job, be the same age and have the exact same dozen or so sporting, cultural and religious interests as a former prolific male UKC poster. Funny that!
> Formerly known as ...
Sophie appears to live in the same city, work for the same national organisation, doing exactly the same job, be the same age and have the exact same dozen or so sporting, cultural and religious interests as a former prolific male UKC poster. Funny that!
Post edited at 18:45
In reply to The New NickB:
And also, according to her profile, has a male alter ego, which is a bit confusing
And also, according to her profile, has a male alter ego, which is a bit confusing
In reply to MG:
His profile is still active, on which he says he has a female alter ego.
> And also, according to her profile, has a male alter ego, which is a bit confusing
His profile is still active, on which he says he has a female alter ego.
In reply to MG:
Is her male alter ego called 'Offwidth'?
> And also, according to her profile, has a male alter ego, which is a bit confusing
Is her male alter ego called 'Offwidth'?
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In reply to Sophie G.:
There are four people tagged in that blog post - Andy Nisbet, Greg Boswell, Guy Robertson and Tim Chappell.
> See if you can work out who this is
There are four people tagged in that blog post - Andy Nisbet, Greg Boswell, Guy Robertson and Tim Chappell.
In reply to The New NickB:
And has a link to a personal web page on her profile, which explains exactly why that is. But - spoiler alert - you're obviously quite proud of your shrewd detective work so you definitely shouldn't click on that and simply read about it.
> Sophie appears to live in the same city, work for the same national organisation, doing exactly the same job, be the same age and have the exact same dozen or so sporting, cultural and religious interests as a former prolific male UKC poster. Funny that!
And has a link to a personal web page on her profile, which explains exactly why that is. But - spoiler alert - you're obviously quite proud of your shrewd detective work so you definitely shouldn't click on that and simply read about it.
In reply to deepsoup:
Or just stating the bloody obvious.
> And has a link to a personal web page on her profile, which explains exactly why that is. But - spoiler alert - you're obviously quite proud of your shrewd detective work so you definitely shouldn't click on that and simply read about it.
Or just stating the bloody obvious.
And all this because someone had the commonsense to ask advice on what gear to take on a climb new to him , ffs , just reminded me why I left all those years ago , to the original op , the initial advice was sound as was SG's I carried a 50 mtr , and no cams but all rest , it was a fantastic day my first lead in winter and memorable for all the right reasons , hope you enjoy it
In reply to Gazza111:
Hi there. I would agree with Sophie, light rack, a few long slings, half a set of wires and a few extenders and enjoy yourself. Perhaps by March it will be a bit more alpine with a mix of some dry rock and snow which makes it very enjoyable. Even if its still well snowed up most of it is pretty straightforward with some short crux pitches. Early start, keep moving and you'll have plenty of time to get off the hill in day light if the weather is good.
RN
Hi there. I would agree with Sophie, light rack, a few long slings, half a set of wires and a few extenders and enjoy yourself. Perhaps by March it will be a bit more alpine with a mix of some dry rock and snow which makes it very enjoyable. Even if its still well snowed up most of it is pretty straightforward with some short crux pitches. Early start, keep moving and you'll have plenty of time to get off the hill in day light if the weather is good.
RN
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