UKC

There seems to be considerable debate over whether mixed routes in Scotland are 'in', or not. When it comes to ice it's pretty clear, either the ice is formed properly and you can climb it, or it's not formed properly and you can't.

However no-one seems quite sure over what constutites acceptable mixed conditions. Clearly the turf needs to be frozen to prevent us ripping it all off, but as to the condition of the rock itself, there seem to be all sorts of ideas floating around...

Some reckon the rock needs to be heavily rimed up...the only difference rime seems to make is it slows climbers down as they scrape it off the crag.

Personally I climb the route if the turfs solid and it looks whiteish. That being said comprimises get made when you've walked in to a remote cliff with a partner desperate to log routes for the BMG scheme and end up climbing a steep pile of unfrozen choss.

In reply to JackM92:

Your last paragraph sums it up really. I'd only add that sometimes (when frozen) things can have a wintry feel to them with snow on almost every hold etc, despite looking fairly black from below.

In reply to JackM92:
Lord give me strength! Not another winter ethics thread.

In reply to DaveHK:

Just be thankful the thread is about Scotland, one mention of the lakes and the rantfest begins.


Oops, what did I just start?

In reply to JackM92:

If you want to get on the BMG scheme then you should know to not climb unfrozen choss, however long the walk in.

In reply to JackM92:

Seems clear to me: http://www.mcofs.org.uk/winter-climbing-guide-ethics.asp

In reply to jonnie3430:

Only one rule: if you can place cams, that's cheating. Not In.

In reply to jonnie3430:

Tricams are allowed, obvs. As are pegs, lost arrows, found arrows, knifeblades, tomahawks and pick axe handles. Kitchen sink of limited use but can be brandished at parties lower down the route to dissuade them from overtaking inappropriately.

In reply to JackM92:
and there was me thinking I was doing everyone a favour cleaning the routes...oh dear..
Any gardeners out there got handy tips for gluing turf back on?

In reply to JackM92:

If you have to ask you will never know..........

In reply to JackM92:

It's very sad when one sees that the Mountaineering Council of Scotland guidelines that jonnie3430 has linked to above (specifically, item 7) are being so blatantly flouted, as evidenced by this logbook comment on the mega-classic Centurion, dating from September last year:

'Brilliant line up this monster of a crag. shame about pitch 5 its a bit scrappy also not impressed by the amount of damage that has been done to pitch 1-3 by winter climbers.'