UKC

Just got home from work and caught up with the opening monologue by Chris Rock at the Oscars' and he made some interesting observations through the power of laughter.

But is Hollywood racist?

In reply to The Lemming:

It's American, so probably.

In reply to The Lemming:

I'm sure you gain some value from this but the sheer number of these threads that you start makes me feel like you a running UKC's equivalent of 'The Jeremy Vine Show'.
Pick an item that features in the top three most read stories on the BBC and then create a post. No offering of insight, opinion or original thought.
I am genuinely interested in what your motivations are.
Please do not view this as being negative, I am just interested in finding out what you get out of starting all these threads.
Have a good day!

In reply to TMM:

He needs to feed his dislike stalkers?

Seems like a perfectly reasonable start thread to me, like most of Lemmings stuff. The problem with the site is more lack of posting traffic, not too much. You get on the top 40 some weeks with fewer than 25 posts.

In reply to TMM:



I'd say that was pretty negative.

In reply to The Lemming:

have there been many noteworthy movies featuring black actors or producers (etc) over the past year? I have no idea but I guess it's possible they don't feature in the Oscars because they haven't done anything this year.

p.s. - I find Chris Rock to be one of the most annoying people I've ever heard. Does he have any other persona than angry, whiney bloke?

In reply to graeme jackson:
Its like any closed club living in the past that don't like change, they perceive quality films to contain white actors, the make up of the club should reflect society and should be changed or get rid of the Oscars altogether

Interesting the MOBO Awards must be equally divisive

In reply to robert-hutton:



Isn't all music of black origin? I seem to remember Mick Hucknall winning an award at the first ever MOBO's. Which is why I can never watch it again.

In reply to Dell:


That's a fairly ignorant statement, as far as ignorant statements go.

In reply to Fraser:


Could you explain why you think it is an ignorant statement?

In reply to robert-hutton:


Maybe there is merit in black actors not getting opportunities to play good parts and maybe there are not enough good black actors to play those parts?

My perception is that the underlying factor of Hollywood is money. If an actor can generate money from bums on seats at the cinema, then they get the job.

With all the hoo haa of this year could there be a knee jerk reaction of positive discrimination where black actors get good acting roles irrespective of talent, or could this become a cultural change where genuine tallent has been suppressed in the industry?

In reply to The Lemming:

Here's This Week Tonight's (sweary) take on it: youtube.com/watch?v=fJy_OU1DPcg&

In reply to TMM:




I don't have to view your comments as negative, because they obviously are negative. I enjoy good conversation, especially when I don't know much about the subject and can learn something from the experts. There are a few people on here who are in the film industry and I'm hoping they will offer their thoughts.

Or we could change the format of the forums to climbing only related discussion?
Now that would get boring and repetative really quickly.

In reply to The Lemming:

Have any of the complainants offered up any films or actors that they think should have been nominated?

In reply to The Lemming:
You try to use this climbing message board as a general forum and that's not really what anyone else uses it for. I think most people come here for climbing news and then go to other forums for other things. Thus the majority of these non-climbing topics are made by yourself and they spam up the front board unless you filter the places you post. There's no way to block specific users posts/threads on this board unfortunately otherwise the users could solve the issue themselves if they really wanted.

I think you should look into making an account on reddit. Reddit has sub-sections relevant to specific things (like this 35 thousand comment oscar specific post in https://www.reddit.com/r/movies - https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/487kb1/official_oscar_thread_2016/ )

Edit: www.reddit.com/r/climbing gets an honorary mention, over 73k members!

In reply to Removed User:

I think this is a great 'general forum'. Try your own advice and filter out (or just ignore) the forums that annoy you.

In reply to Removed User:

This is the Culture Bunker forum.
Do you think it should be limited to Climbing/Mountaineering literature?
It would soon be an exhausted place if it were!

In reply to Lusk:

I didn't mean this thread in particular, I was talking about the combination of his half a dozen threads per day every day on every topic under the sun. If people didn't get annoyed there wouldn't be constant comments about it (like the guy above) or constant downvotes to the point where he made a thread to specifically complain about the amount of downvotes he gets.

In reply to Removed User:

He hasn't broken any forum rules, so I suppose the people who get annoyed should just suck it up.

In reply to Lusk:


Yes quite a few.

In reply to The Lemming:

It's good to see that the "no see dislikey" filter recommended to you is working so well!

In reply to Removed User:


Slightly strange comment since this post is on the "culture bunker" which is intended for threads on "Films, Music etc". I've not followed Lemming's posts but it seems to me this post is well placed.

There have been interesting threads on UKC recently on a number of non-climbing issues - the EU referendum and gravity waves being two from very different areas. I find it's interesting to learn what people who share my passion for climbing think on political and other issues. Some good conversations result if you ignore posts that just criticise other posters.

And we do have some people on UKC who are true experts in certain areas in their day jobs.

Martin

In reply to The New NickB:


Yes I could, but if you really need to ask the question, you definitely won't understand the explanation.

In reply to Fraser:

The fact that you haven't is rather telling. Given it was a perfectly polite question, I will just consider you ignorant!

In reply to The New NickB:

Ok, I'll do it for Fraser. Dell made the statement Hollywood = American = probably racist. You're not normally one to allow people to get away with that sort of broad brush stereotyping but you thought it ok here?

In reply to Removed User:

You do know that you don't HAVE to click on Lemming's posts, don't you?

JW

In reply to The Lemming:

I don't know, but I don't think you have much chance as an actor in this country unless you went to Harrow or Eton.

In reply to Tyler:

America is weird though; you get death by Twitter for saying coloured person instead of person of colour, but a cop shooting a black person for no good reason isn't much of a big deal.

In reply to Tyler:

Now, now, who is jumping to conclusions!

I just wanted to hear the argument, plenty of arguments against this sort of broad brush stereotyping, but there is also no doubting that large sections of American society have issues with race.

I asked a polite question, in the hope of getting a reasoned response, unfortunately I got someone being an arse!

I was sort of joking really. I'm not gonna get into a big old debate about it...

But let's be honest, American's love a bit of racism, their country was founded on it. First the Indians, then the blacks. Muslims are the latest ones they like to pick on. Oh, and the Mexicans.

In reply to The New NickB:


No, Tyler got it spot on.


No larger than the large sections in this country which do too. Many minorities find this country more racist than the US, which makes Dell's absurd comment all the more ridiculous.


I gave you a perfectly polite reply. So basic and obvious was the explanation that your need to ask for one led me to believe that you'd not understand my response. Hopefully now that you've had the explanation and more time to think about things, you can get your head round it.

In reply to Fraser:


I can assure he didn't, he was making assumption about my views on the subject, so you are not qualified to state whether he got it right or not.


OK, one of the weaker possible arguments, but at least you made it, eventually.


No, you were an arse.

In reply to The New NickB:

Aah name calling, the base punctuation of a lame argument. Feel free to think whatever you wish, I've already wasted enough time on you.

In reply to The Lemming:

Chris Rock has now been accused of being racist: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35693784

In reply to FactorXXX:
I'm confused now. I thought that Chris was making a satirical point, much in the way of 'have I got news' or 'mock the weak'. (Spelling pun intended)

At least the subject got highlighted on a world stage.

It's a shame that this discussion had been flamed from the outset because I thought that it was a sensible grown up question but sadly for me many of the replies have shown a spotlight on some of the more infantile members of our community.

In reply to The Lemming:

It is my experience, that any internet based discussion on racism, will always end well, without any name calling and with all parties in full agreement.

In reply to Dell:


What a load of sh1te you fuc....

Sorry, don't know what came over me.

In reply to The Lemming:

Is there a list anywhere of the films/actors that were overlooked due to racism?

In reply to The New NickB:


No I didn't. Read what I wrote and note the punctuation? Not that I give a shit about the low level, passive- aggressive trolling which seems to be your stock in trade. This whole "what guv, me guv?" and "I didn't actually *say* that" defence you always pull whenever you are called on is a bit disingenuous not to mention tiresome. I expect more of the same now as you pretend to take offence at what I've just said in the way you did with Fraser above, i.e. calling him an arse when he didn't bite on your not so artfully baited hook.

In reply to aln:

This was disliked. Here's another question for you to dislike, I'll make it simple.

Is there a list anywhere of types of carrots?

Same principle, you might struggle with it.

In reply to Tyler:

TBH you Fraser and Nick seem to be getting locked into a circular thing that looks silly

In reply to aln:
I totally agree which is why that was (going to be, until this!) my final word!

Edit: Having just read your 17:13 there's a danger of you going the same way! All too easy to end up in not picking sideshows which is why I post here less than I used to.....

In reply to Tyler:
You really are reading in to things that aren't there, I asked a perfectly reasonable question in a perfectly polite way. The response I got was extremely rude, in other words, arse like behaviour.

You waded in with some major assumptions, now you accuse me of trolling and being passive aggressive. I can only assume you have developed issues with me. Only you know why.

Here is the original comment:

In reply to Fraser:


Could you explain why you think it is an ignorant statement?

In reply to Lusk:


Here is an article in Variety that looks at the issue.

http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/oscar-nominations-2016-diversity-white-120...

In reply to The New NickB:

For the sake of completeness your neat summary ought to have included Dell's original comment, then latecomers would be able to see where Fraser was coming from without reading the whole thread.

In reply to The Lemming:

Whats more in question is why they chose the least funny person in showbusiness , black or otherwise, to host the awards. He's not even a funny zebra.

In reply to aln:


No, those movies were never funded/made/promoted. Because of racism.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

I think he's very funny. But then I'm not racist.

In reply to Dell:

Oh FFS. What do you want, an award for a black person who was involved in a film, an award for a film coz it had a black person in it?

In reply to aln:

I want the Oscars to be abolished completely. It's just all about rich, well connected Hollywood types patting each other on the back.

In reply to The Lemming:

Did you go to the cinema and pay money to see any of the following?:
Straight Outta Compton
Creed
Concussion

In reply to The New NickB:


It has had a black president.. has the UK had senior officials who have been black?

the US has race issues, I don't think worse than the UK, just different.. laid on top of class issues. You can't ignore the black prison population, the death row ethnicity, nor police shootings.. BUT there is also more from for anyone to make the top in the US than the UK.

Its just not that simple that the US is racist, certainly it has huge race issues.

In reply to Dell:


thats actually bullshit. Did you look at who won?

In reply to Dell:

Or you could not watch or listen or care. Or comment.

In reply to Dell:


Erm, come again. Are you suggesting I find him painfully unfunny because Im racist?

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Well at least Dell achieved something.
Welcome back!

In reply to Roadrunner5:


Cabinet Ministers, yes, but that not the point. The question wasn't about Britain.


It's a complex issue, worthy of debate. I was interested in the debate.


Hence my question, unfortunately it wasn't interpreted in the spirit it was meant by a couple of people and the thread has been somewhat derailed by the unpleasantness that followed.

In reply to Roadrunner5:


Yes. White people.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:


No, I didn't suggest that.

In reply to Dell:

then do please explain because thats how it came across

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

What's to explain? I didn't suggest that at all. If it came across that way then any misunderstanding is yours.

In reply to Dell:


I said:

Whats more in question is why they chose the least funny person in showbusiness , black or otherwise, to host the awards. He's not even a funny zebra

To which you responded:

I think he's very funny. But then I'm not racist.

Hmmm

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

I made two points, both of which are true.
Although the second one can be called into question by anyone who chooses to.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:





Can we please stop the fek'in petty points scoring?

Can we please take it as read, that nobody on this forum is racist, or implied as racist, and discuss the subject in a grown up manner?


Is that too much to ask?

In reply to Dell:

And which ones?

You didn't say 'white' you said "It's just all about rich, well connected Hollywood types patting each other on the back."

I'm guessing you don't know the full list of winners? You just saw some headlines and spouted a cliché bullshit line?

In reply to The Lemming:




No, not when it isn't necessarily true.

People can be called out for typing clichés.

I don't know who you think you are policing threads, saying who should say what? A forum is for debate not everyone agreeing with Lemmings inane posts..

In reply to The New NickB:

It is. You suggested the US is racist.

Colin Powell once said the barriers for a black person are greater in the UK than the US. The US is very dog eat dog, very capiltalist driven but there is no ceiling for anyone, but no handouts and an atrocious lack of support for the poor. However they don't have a ceiling like in the UK.

Institutional racism and classism is probably far greater in the UK than the US. We only have to look at the public school/Oxbridge backgrounds of many of our top people. the US doesn't suffer that hence why Rice/Powell/Obama et al were able to get to the very top.

The UK has had no black politician to raise to those levels, we may have MP's but as influential as those 3 named?

As I said the US has huge race issues (defense/prisons/police shootings), but so does the UK. A classic example is in sport on both countries we still class black players as strong, powerful but unintelligent/unreliable/emotional (which was actual a justification for slavery based on craniology (Mismeasure of Man - SJ Gould)). We say we don't but until the same % of black players are managers then we don't have racial equality in our sports. Look at athletics, so many great black athletes yet few remain in the sport and rise up like Coe. In soccer black players have been a large part of the game since the 70's and 80's yet we still have very very few black managers. The same in the NFL. the UK is no better in many ways.

It's easy to say the US is racist but the UK still has huge issues before it can start pointing the finger at other countries.

In reply to Roadrunner5:


I didn't say the U.S is racist, you may be confusing me with Dell, who made the original comment.

My whole input in to the debate has been that race and racism in the U.S is a complex issue and worthy of discussion. It is in the UK as well, but as the OP was about accusations of racism at the Oscars, I did that consider that particularly relevant.

Unfortunately others have chosen to misinterpret my remarks, but I can't do a lot about that.

I considered that Dell was being provocative to promote debate, given his later contributions I may have misjudged his intent.

In reply to Dell:


No it isn't.

In reply to Roadrunner5:

You say 'race issues' I say 'racist' It's all the same thing at the end of the day.

No one implied that the UK is perfect on this matter either.

In reply to Roadrunner5:




I was explaining why I don't think much of the Oscars, colour has nothing to do with that statement.


If you can convince me that there are no "rich, well connected Hollywood types patting each other on the back" Then I will accept that I spouted bullshit.

In reply to The New NickB:

Don't see how anyone could say the US isn't racist. It is hugely racist. Race defines you over there, unless you manage to make every other aspect of your personality fit within a white paradigm.

But it may be slightly more accurate to say your class and wealth is more what defines you in the US. Race is a proxy for those and is institutionalised. But capitalism is the number one religion and if you can adjust your blackness to fit within that then you may do alright for yourself. However, a crack user is always more likely to end up on the chain gang than a coke snorter, and as much as the average American thinks imprisonment rates for blacks are an issue, if they're white they're not too concerned because they can be pretty confident that its not going to directly impact them. Sure, a middle class educated mass exist who have issues with all this. But looking at the popularity of the GOP candidates this year its pretty clear a sizeable proportion, possibly the majority, of the US population don't give a toss about anyone other than themselves.

I find it a bit ironic though that the US gets viewed in skin colour terms. Black Americans embody everything we consider American. In some ways they more closely represent cultural America than a white does. Seeing a black and hearing them speak with an American accent doesn't surprise me in the same way a scouse accent does when it comes from a Sikh.

Of course, it all gets a bit awkward when you consider the animosity between black (as in slave-descended Americans) and African (-born) Americans. Neither having a particularly high regard for the other, who then is racist?

In reply to Dell:

I sympathise with that.

Couldn't give a toss about the Oscars. It really does seem to be a bunch of over-paid individuals engaging in a mutual w4nk fest that for some reason is unavoidable if you read any form of media in the weeks surrounding the event. Given the hype you'd think the contenders had discovered a cure for cancer or poverty or something (though many do seem to act as if they have).

They're just actors. The vast majority of whom seems to be worth millions, live in mansions in Bell Aire, and get to fly around in in corporate jets. I really don't see why they receive so much adoration.

In reply to David Martin:

The rise of trump is disgusting. It's legitimizing racism.

People are scared to make comparisons with hitler but it's very very similar. Polarize, divide and blame. I'm not saying he's going to cause war or murder millions but the legitimizing of horrific views because they are 'angry' is bullshit.

It's not anger its ignorant racism.

His stepping around the David duke question should have finished him, he knew very well what he was saying.

On top the wall is just bullshit because the flow through that border is slowing, but punish Mexico, hurt them and the rich poor divide grows and you'll increase immigration. The way to stop immigration from other countries is improve lives there.

Kasich isn't much better, he's anti abortion laws have been snuck in in Ohio. He's far from the moderate he says he is, even banning rape counsellors from mentioning abortion.

It really is a stunning indigent the of them ignorance and hatred still present in the U.S.

This 'we're angry' is rubbish. Angry at what? Gay marriage? Health care for the poor?

In reply to Dell:

The oscars is about more than the actors. You think the costume designers et al all fit your description?

In reply to Roadrunner5:

I have wondered if the angry American is actually just the older version of the cliched "spoilt American brat" child we all pointed our fingers at a few decades ago. I want everything, I'm not being given enough, its unfair, screw everyone else.

The confusing thing is that the American right by and large get along with each other. So it isn't that they are just obnoxious individuals. They are collectively comfortable with the behaviour of their brethren. Its very scary.

Fortunately I don't think Trump will manage to do half what he claims. The house, senate and supreme court is where the power really is. So it will be great to watch him fail to deliver on his promises....not that his followers will necessarily notice.

In reply to David Martin:
A great one is 'common core' ask them why and almost all have no idea what it means.

They are just angry at it because Obama made a massive change to the core subjects of English and math with nationwide standards.