UKC

I was under in the impression that a "slash" grade like III/IV etc indicate that the route varies in difficulty depending on the conditions, rather than being a distinct intermediate grade. The UKC logbook takes the latter approach. Which is correct?

In reply to Peter Metcalfe:

Both.

In reply to Peter Metcalfe:
Any you want TBH.

A winter grade is more of a guess than for a rock route which is graded for "best " condition.

I have done grade 1's that have felt harder for a short section than routes graded V because of conditions on the day.

In reply to DaveHK:

agreed, it can mean either its typically at a grade boundary or indicate grades for different conditions.

Didn't / Does the vent not get II/IV depending on conditions?

In reply to Rick Graham:
Actually winter routes are not graded for best condition its graded for good typical conditions. The Ben Nevis guide mentions for example many of the indicator wall routes drop an adj grade in really good conditions as the ice is fat enough to take screws (and assumedly feel a touch easier to climb also)

In reply to CurlyStevo:


Yes and no...

Normal routes are generally graded for the typical conditions.

New cuttin' edge routes tend to only get done when the routes are in best conditions...

In reply to CurlyStevo:


I did not actually say that

I agree with your post.

In reply to Peter Metcalfe:


I don't use it as an intermediate grade, only variation. And I try to write guidebooks with it only as variation. Otherwise most grades would have a slash. It's a cop-out not being willing to decide.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

does the Vent get II / IV Andy?

In reply to Rick Graham:

sorry read your post again, I read it as another meaning.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Funnily enough I did the Vent in perfect nick (thick first time ice, no chockstones), but still thought it felt steep enough to be III.

In reply to Michael Gordon:
I seconded it after my partner fell off and it was solid IV getting over the chock stone (required very wide shoulder to toe chimneying). Above it was still grade III in places.

I was under the impression when banked out it can just be a steady snow slope. Some of the grade II gullys can be quite tricky (the Runnel or Raeburns on lochnagar spring to mind). I've only been on it the once though.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

It was definitely trickier than either of those. I thought perhaps in order to cover the chockstone it would have to be a certain steepness

In reply to Peter Metcalfe:

Perhaps we should use III/IV to mean "could be either" and III-IV to mean "in between" or vice versa.
I have to confess I've always tended to assume III/IV means in between (like say III+ or IV-) and that the grade of any climb can vary depending on conditions but what do I know? I've only been winter climbing for 30 years. perhaps I should read guidebook intros more carefully?

In reply to CurlyStevo:


It does in Scottish Winter Climbs, so my grade. Making a point really. It used to get failed on more than any other route in the Norries.

In reply to Michael Gordon:


I've done it when it was close to Grade I, commoner in the old days.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


Well there you go, I thought it was used for an intermediate. Did it used to be used in that way? Think I recall reading that it was in an older guide pre the double grading system.

In reply to DaveHK:

Yes it used to be (sometimes). But when the new grading system came in, I didn't think it should be. It would make an excessively complex system for something which was variable anyway (due to conditions).

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


Fair enough

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


Yes.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

I'd like to see it used more as a conditions dependant grade with the first grade for the most 'normal' winter climbable conditions and the second for common different conditions. My concern is that the grade for many big gullies that normally have serious cornice issues are I when in my format they would be a much more informative III/I. Doesn't something like Devils Kitchen vary from V to I (when, very rarely, fully banked out)?

In reply to Offwidth:


I think for things like that you'd be better off just saying "can bank out and become grade I" at the end of the description, rather than confusing folk with V/I .

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Sure... I've never seen it as a I... split grades in my style should be for two common different grades so V/IV for Devils Kitchen.. Im more worried about common easier lines that are also commonly hard dependant on conditions like say Gardyloo or The Vent.