UKC

Sad times for hill walking in south of Ireland. Potential access issues ahead?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/hill-walker-...

In reply to Gills:

Smacks of money grubbing opportunism.

However if there were signs saying YOU MUST USE THIS BOARD WALK and the board walk was a rotting death trap, the NPA should get a spanking.

In reply to Gills:

"she had climbed in the Himalayas and to base camp on Mount Everest and could no longer hill climb or run marathons. She had been walking for 40 years and had walked “all around the world”.

What, and she can no longer do any of that because of a cut on her knee?

In reply to Gills:

That'll pay for her next Himalayan trip, money grabbing b............

In reply to Dell:

It's absolutely ridiculous! Nothing but money grabbing!! It will make private land owners think twice about opening up thier land to the public.

In reply to Gills:

They should just remove all the boardwalks, and put up signs that say "enter at your own risk" at the start of every footpath.

In reply to climbwhenready:


"they had “obeyed the laws of the mountain” by following a sign which directed hikers on to the boardwalk."
So, not 'you must use this board walk'.

Are there laws of the mountain in Ireland or is this just nonsense, as binding as the countryside code?

In reply to Gills:

One for the UKC Lawyers.

Does this judgement in an Irish Court set a precedent in English or Scottish Courts?

Either way, lets hope the Appeal Court sees sense and overturns it.

In reply to Gills:

Disagree. Maybe this'll teach the silly b@@@@@@ds not to put in pointless and intrusive (and obviously in this case cheap and rotten) walkways to mess up the natural environment.

Discuss!

In reply to digby:


The Laws of the Mountain are that if you git your kit off you cause earthquakes. Not sure how she used that in her court case though.

In reply to Dell:


My thoughts exactly, also Ireland has free healthcare so why 40k?

In reply to Gills:

I hope the National Trust wont be using slippy stones on their footpath restoration schemes, and will make sure all the rises of each step are the same...

In reply to dsh:

I may well be wrong but I don't think it's entirely free, but instead is only free if you earn below a certain threshold.
Being from the north of Ireland healthcare is free as we have the nhs.
I know I've friends from the south that worry about getting sick as they have to pay to even see thier GP!

I'm sure, there will be someone here who will know the full story and be happy to correct me though

In reply to Gills:

As reported it seems outrageous. Five years ago I got into a dispute with an insurance company who initially offered c£5k as a settlement, the eventual settlement was c£60k, this was achieved by discussion/the Ombudsman and finally over a cup of tea with the only Loss Adjuster from the insurance company who had visiting the house (FWIW I would have settled for 20k).

Things are not always the same as they are reported - remember the lass helped down from Ben Nevis recently...

In reply to Dell:



Exactly and all her achievements in the Himalayas and Everest doesn't mean she is not a total knobhead (can I use that team for women?). I'm sure most on here whether climbers, walkers or runners have sat and listened to someone prattling on about how incredible they are, whilst we sit and think.....knobhead.

Well I have.

In reply to Gills:

Sad times indeed. It won't affect you guys in the UK at all as ye have pretty sensible access laws. It is incredibly frustrating to have this idiotic legal judgement occur. I long for the day when someone of sense in the judiciary tells someone to bloody take responsibility for yourself and look where you are going.

In reply to Moley:

But the judge said she had the appropriate walking sticks...

In reply to Gills:
I've never been to the Seychelles......

........Im sure there's a wobbly paving slab somewhere near my house I could 'trip' over and twist an ankle.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:



You'll need to show that you've been to Everest Base Camp first..

In reply to llechwedd:

Ive been to the pub in Wasdale, does that count?

In reply to Gills:

Unlike the UK there is no 'right-to-roam in Eire.

But in both countries there is a right to sue a negligent landowner for damages if through his/her actions/omissions a member of the public gets injured and this includes trespassers on private property.

In Eire this may well re-enforce the attitude of some farmers to refuse access to their lands including the upland fells. There are a number of signs denying access to parts of the Kerry Hills.

The national park here in N,Yks are often reluctant to carry out 'improvements' to some paths, especially those consisting of stone slabs, often heavily worn, incase someone has an accident on the 'improved' surface and claims damages for the 'park's negligent actions. Sad - but true.

In reply to Trangia:

Irish access is almost nonexistent, AIUI. Private land is PRIVATE.

In reply to Gills:


Well if I were the insurance company for the National Parks ( who she claimed against) , I would be sending her a letter banning her from their property, or at least advising her that any further use of their parks are at her own risk.
( And If I were them I would be watching her very closely to see if it has effected her as much as she claims)

Presumably she will not be out walking or running any hills any time soon( or ever) , either because she really is badly hurt, or for fear of being done for fraud.

In reply to goatee:

It's a bad do... But, then again, so is the state of that path down from Djouce and the like.

God knows whose bright idea it was to lay parallel railway sleepers covered in chicken wire, and think "Ah, we're grand...".

In reply to goatee:

It's a bad do... But, then again, so is the state of that path down from Djouce and the like.

God knows whose bright idea it was to lay parallel railway sleepers covered in chicken wire, and think "Ah, we're grand...".

In reply to Clauso:

Ah, sure, it was just a country job!!

In reply to Clauso:
"Ah, sure, it was just a country job!!"

Here's an example:-http://davidwperry.blogspot.co.uk/2007/12/powersupply.html

In reply to Clauso:

That's true, sadder still is that the 40grand she's now putting in her pocket could have been used to maintain or update the path.

In reply to colinakmc:

Again I may be wrong but I think the pathway was put in place in this area in order to protect the bogland around it. But I can also see your point.

In reply to Gills:

Strikes me she was tired after a long walk and didn't lift her feet. An experienced walker should know you need to watch where you place your feet and accept the consequences if they get it wrong. Is she going to sue god if she trips over a rock? No different.

In reply to Root1:


No, god is penniless and has no liability insurance.

In reply to Root1:

god does not exist so cannot be sued

In reply to Moley:


You will likely win the case, but will get your award in heaven.

In reply to Dell:


The road to hell is paved with ...

In reply to Gills:

Really sad day, now just thinking, who can I sue when I fall off at Avon and strip some rusty pegs and then injure myself??*

*JOKE

In reply to Trangia:




Not a lawyer but I can tell you that it doesn't set a formal precedent but UK judges may find similar cases elsewhere "persuasive".

In reply to Dogwatch:

Thanks

In reply to Gills:

A couple of years ago I fell off my motorcycle in the snow in Bradford, £600 damage to the bike and it's only recently that I can lift my arm above my shoulder.
At the time I took the view it was my fault for going out but cases like this make me wonder if I can claim from the council for not clearing a domestic Street.

In reply to dsh:

Ireland has free healthcare so why 40k?

No it doesnt. 100 quid for a visit to A nd E afaik.

D

In reply to Dax H:

You can make all sorts of daft claims which you will see a few grand of at best but the legal company I'm sure make a tidy annual turnover. Broken leg on push bike, roadworks signage saying watch out loose chippings, cleats on, didn't take them out and proceeded - circa 10k after 2-3 years of two and fro with local authority? Another dumb tw*t, high, no lights on bike gets shunted by a car, multiple fractures, 6 months off work, 12 grand after almost 3 years. How much did the legal team make? Not myself.

D

In reply to Dauphin:

Never ceases to amaze me the things people will claim for. I'm a radiographer and we do a lot of medical-legal work. Some of the stories are so ridiculous that any normal person would never think of putting in a claim. Some so daft that I wouldn't even know who to claim against if it was me. Some people turn up thinking they are coming to us for one thing when it another, they've so many claims going on at once they can't remember what bit of them is ment to be sore! Unfortunately it all brings out the cynic (sp?) in me. Although all the people that truly deserve a claim or those who are really ill help keep life in perspective

In reply to Dauphin:
Depends. I don't like filling out forms. I assume all the responsibility for walking outside the front door.

I think compo culture specimens ought to be handed their money and then melted down into Soylent Green.

No loss.

D

In reply to Gills:

I see similar as an NHS physio'. Litigation outstanding tends to mean that symptoms sometimes don't resolve until settlement is reached. I mention this finding to my patients early on, if a claim is involved, explaining it as evidence based practice. Done in a non accusatory manner, I find it frees up resources that are otherwise devoted to 'game playing'.

'Whiplash and other useful injuries' ,by Andrew Malleson, makes an entertaining and informative read.

In reply to llechwedd:
Must have a read at it! Sounds like it could be interesting!

Great that it's possible to free up resources that way too, especially in the nhs where resources are so limited!
I'm not sure that the same would work for us in the private sector, their solicitors (and therefore themselves) are paying for it. They don't really care what resources are used then.But sure if they are seeing us atleast they aren't wasting nhs resources and keeping me in a job at the same time!

In reply to Gills:



Unfortunately, from an NHS physio' viewpoint, the prior input from the private sector can add to our workload: After an 'incident', claimants often get rapid ( well more rapid than the NHS ) access to the insurance company physio who - and this is a sweeping generalisation- usually treats them passively. They get a few sessions and then they're shunted onto the NHS, as unfinished business.

By the time we see them in the NHS, this lack of active self management by the claimant+ all the catastrophising mindset that accompanies e.g. the term 'whiplash'+the litigation factor, can mean it's a bit of an uphill battle to get them back on the road to recovery.

Malleson points to the increasing incidence of whiplash in former soviet countries, which is in direct proportion to the growth of personal insurance after the disintegration of the USSR. Whiplash is perhaps off -topic, but this last example does tend to indicate that it's not just 'if there's blame, there's a claim', but also 'if there's a litigation system that promotes spurious claims, there's a claim.'

In reply to llechwedd:

Yikes that does suck! By the time they reach us all treatment is usually done (And it is years after any incident) and they are more often looking for trauma induced arthritis, etc or occasionally any sign of injury at all. Anything from a time closer to injury tends to be second opinions so the radiographer a aren't involved.

I can see how they would come to they kind of a conclusion! claim culture quite literally!! That article really does sound interesting, must look it up!

In reply to Dell:


if it got badly infected or banged at just the wrong angle its not impossible that could happen.
The bit that confused me was the judge saying it was obvious from pictures it was dodgy. If so then surely thats a reason to be careful.
Its been a few years since I visited there and remember some boardwalk over the bog being in shit state, unsurprisingly, but it just meant be a tad careful. If it looked perfect but collapsed under her then personally I would be a bit more sympathic.

A few years ago trying to do a spot of mountain walking in southern Ireland we found it really difficult to access the hills - access was blocked everywhere and we were eventually pointed to a monastery which had a path up the side of it only to find it was shut off and locked because someone had sued them after going up on the hill and twisting their ankle. Eventually we just made it to the open country by climbing numerous barbed wire fences.

Apparently the same "sue everything" culture shuts down a lot of stuff (try hiring a surf board without an instructor).

As it turns the walking was shite - the biggest mountain was simply a steep bog shrouded in warm fog and thickly populated with midges. The only consolation was thousands of midges drowned in the damp trying to feed.

The pubs were uncharming and the population was obsessed with how hard done by everything from the price of milk to the lack of (insert random noun), Europe, Britain and the North, the music was shite, and the place was full of idiot yanks. I've never been somewhere so whingy. I used to think "Irish O'Pubs" (as found around the world) were some sad facsimile of something good but the reality is they are an improvement on the real thing.

Don't get me on to roads...

Overall the OP fears are probably real...

In reply to duchessofmalfi:

Echoes my experience. Deeply disappointing... back to Scotland