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I have come across a number of comments stating that bouldering at 7a is achievable for everyone who puts in a bit of effort and that this is where 'proper' bouldering starts.
This is rather disheartening as I find anything in the 6b-6c range (peak's/northumberland mainly) mind alteringly, unbelievably hard. I am normally comfortable ish on 5's, 6a feels nails but doable, 6b feels utterly out of my league and 6c is just mind bending. Forget about anything given a 7. So whats up?! I have climbed for years, dieted, trained, watched my nutrition, try to climb intelligently but still have gone no where grade wise in years. The only link that is missing is that I only get outside once every couple of months....
I'm not sure what my point is, climbing feels hard I guess! Can anyone make it easier please?
This is rather disheartening as I find anything in the 6b-6c range (peak's/northumberland mainly) mind alteringly, unbelievably hard. I am normally comfortable ish on 5's, 6a feels nails but doable, 6b feels utterly out of my league and 6c is just mind bending. Forget about anything given a 7. So whats up?! I have climbed for years, dieted, trained, watched my nutrition, try to climb intelligently but still have gone no where grade wise in years. The only link that is missing is that I only get outside once every couple of months....
I'm not sure what my point is, climbing feels hard I guess! Can anyone make it easier please?
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
It just sounds like something disparaging boulderers in beanies would say tbh. I wouldn't worry about it!
It just sounds like something disparaging boulderers in beanies would say tbh. I wouldn't worry about it!
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In reply to Bulls Crack:
What's 7a, V6? I suspect that's achievable by most who really set their mind to it and put in the time but the effort required will differ enormously. It's pretty much a career high point for me grade wise and I've been climbing with varying degrees of obsession and indifference for quite a while. It'd be pretty impressive if you were achieving that off the back of a few trips a year!
jk
What's 7a, V6? I suspect that's achievable by most who really set their mind to it and put in the time but the effort required will differ enormously. It's pretty much a career high point for me grade wise and I've been climbing with varying degrees of obsession and indifference for quite a while. It'd be pretty impressive if you were achieving that off the back of a few trips a year!
jk
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
Your profile says you've bouldered f7A already? And if you've done 7b+, albeit indoors, you've presumably got decent power or at least power:weight ratio. Outdoors holds are likely to be smaller, slopey-er and with worse feet, so could it be technique rather than strength? When you do get outdoors is it on your own or with others? I find I climb significantly better when out with climbers who are better than me. Ideally not miles ahead like 7C and warming up on my projects, but just enough difference that you can pick up beta from them.
Your profile says you've bouldered f7A already? And if you've done 7b+, albeit indoors, you've presumably got decent power or at least power:weight ratio. Outdoors holds are likely to be smaller, slopey-er and with worse feet, so could it be technique rather than strength? When you do get outdoors is it on your own or with others? I find I climb significantly better when out with climbers who are better than me. Ideally not miles ahead like 7C and warming up on my projects, but just enough difference that you can pick up beta from them.
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In reply to Mowglee:
Does it? That's nonsense, I used to climb indoors at a place with very soft grade setting. I mainly go on my own outdoors, but to be honest have found when I go with people better than me I end up confused and depressed!
Does it? That's nonsense, I used to climb indoors at a place with very soft grade setting. I mainly go on my own outdoors, but to be honest have found when I go with people better than me I end up confused and depressed!
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
There are potentially infinite variations in style within every grade so I would say, yes, f7a should be achievable for the majority of people willing to spend the time to find and work the right project.
Maybe try different venues/ rock types. If power is the problem, look for longer traverse style problems.
Also, unashamedly steal beta whenever you can. It can save you a lot of time and skin.
Finally, a local project is always going to be preferable to one that's an effort to get to.
There are potentially infinite variations in style within every grade so I would say, yes, f7a should be achievable for the majority of people willing to spend the time to find and work the right project.
Maybe try different venues/ rock types. If power is the problem, look for longer traverse style problems.
Also, unashamedly steal beta whenever you can. It can save you a lot of time and skin.
Finally, a local project is always going to be preferable to one that's an effort to get to.
Post edited at 10:19
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In reply to Brian Pollock:
I'm not grade hunting - it's just that it feels breathtakingly hard for something that people consider easily achievable!
Inother way of asking the question is - if number grades were given adjectives how would you describe them?
I'm not grade hunting - it's just that it feels breathtakingly hard for something that people consider easily achievable!
Inother way of asking the question is - if number grades were given adjectives how would you describe them?
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
Achievable by everyone doesn't mean easily achievable, it means if everyone REALLY applied themselves, they could climb F7A.
That doesn't man they could waltz up every seven at the crag. I've ticked F7A+ on a day I've failed on a F6B+. There's quite a variety in styles or climb and personal strengths and weaknesses. You just need to get them to align.
Achievable by everyone doesn't mean easily achievable, it means if everyone REALLY applied themselves, they could climb F7A.
That doesn't man they could waltz up every seven at the crag. I've ticked F7A+ on a day I've failed on a F6B+. There's quite a variety in styles or climb and personal strengths and weaknesses. You just need to get them to align.
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
If anyone thinks it's easy they've just forgotten how hard it was when they couldn't do it.
Surely a pointless task as it'll vary with one's ability at any given time. What was easy to me three years ago isn't any more. What was impossible ten years ago isn't today.
If it's fun then enjoy it, if it's not then do something else.
jk
> I'm not grade hunting - it's just that it feels breathtakingly hard for something that people consider easily achievable!
If anyone thinks it's easy they've just forgotten how hard it was when they couldn't do it.
> Inother way of asking the question is - if number grades were given adjectives how would you describe them?
Surely a pointless task as it'll vary with one's ability at any given time. What was easy to me three years ago isn't any more. What was impossible ten years ago isn't today.
If it's fun then enjoy it, if it's not then do something else.
jk
Post edited at 10:33
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
I think there's danger of a fairly strong disconnect between indoor and outdoor boulderers, with a more rounded experience of different rocks, styles and techniques. I'm thinking of a local wall where I know a decent % have never been outside. They get used to the quirks of that wall, the setter and a few soft grades, visit regularly and start to knack themselves up some big grades. Big grades on bolt on holds that (probably rightly) are never going to be too small, tweaky, slopey, marginal. Outside they'll get spanked. Outside is just different and in real life you're much less likely to come across problems that reward the gymnast or the massive leap for a decent hold. I'd just try and get outside more and worry less about the grade. F7A IS hard in most people's book.
I'm not trying to sound like a grump here, but you know... probably am
I think there's danger of a fairly strong disconnect between indoor and outdoor boulderers, with a more rounded experience of different rocks, styles and techniques. I'm thinking of a local wall where I know a decent % have never been outside. They get used to the quirks of that wall, the setter and a few soft grades, visit regularly and start to knack themselves up some big grades. Big grades on bolt on holds that (probably rightly) are never going to be too small, tweaky, slopey, marginal. Outside they'll get spanked. Outside is just different and in real life you're much less likely to come across problems that reward the gymnast or the massive leap for a decent hold. I'd just try and get outside more and worry less about the grade. F7A IS hard in most people's book.
I'm not trying to sound like a grump here, but you know... probably am
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
I think you've probably answered your own question here to some degree? Time spent climbing and actually doing climbing specific movements is principal basis for improvement. Ever article on general training I've read seems to say there is no substitute fro time spent climbing (i.e. 3 times a week minimum, for many that will mean the climbing wall most of the time). How many sessions a week are you actually doing on a regular basis? Where/what are you actually doing during each session?
I cant comment on climbing hard grades (being a massive punter myself!), and I've done a very limited amount of climbing over the last 5 years due to a young family. But in the last 6 months I've focused again on climbing on a regular basis, bouldering as much as possible, and a little supplementary strength work (press ups, chin ups, occasional finger board etc) and I'm finally starting to see an improvement in my standard/grade again. Its a great feeling as its a self reinforcing cycle, seeing an improvement is stimulating me to try harder etc, and I'm starting to really enjoy the struggle again.
But yes it does feel hard, there's no escaping that, any route at your current limit, no matter what grade always feels hard.
> I have climbed for years, dieted, trained, watched my nutrition, try to climb intelligently but still have gone no where grade wise in years. The only link that is missing is that I only get outside once every couple of months....
I think you've probably answered your own question here to some degree? Time spent climbing and actually doing climbing specific movements is principal basis for improvement. Ever article on general training I've read seems to say there is no substitute fro time spent climbing (i.e. 3 times a week minimum, for many that will mean the climbing wall most of the time). How many sessions a week are you actually doing on a regular basis? Where/what are you actually doing during each session?
I cant comment on climbing hard grades (being a massive punter myself!), and I've done a very limited amount of climbing over the last 5 years due to a young family. But in the last 6 months I've focused again on climbing on a regular basis, bouldering as much as possible, and a little supplementary strength work (press ups, chin ups, occasional finger board etc) and I'm finally starting to see an improvement in my standard/grade again. Its a great feeling as its a self reinforcing cycle, seeing an improvement is stimulating me to try harder etc, and I'm starting to really enjoy the struggle again.
But yes it does feel hard, there's no escaping that, any route at your current limit, no matter what grade always feels hard.
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
I would agree that f7A is possible for all that really put their mind to it. Clearly it comes much easier to some and MUCH harder to others. But if that was someone's goal, to climb f7A (i'm talking getting to that level, not just projecting one) then it is doable.
Clearly there will be some people who are naturally talented and if they climb twice a week for a year or two, they will just end up at that level. Where there will be others who would train 4-5 times a week and get there after a number of years.
From your profile, it says that you've only been climbing 1-3 years, and you're only 27. The great thing about climbing is that there are so many facets to it, that you can continue to progress well past the age where other sports it becomes a barrier. I know a good number of folk in their 50s operating at the f7+ level.
I'd just get out climbing lots and enjoy yourself, and you'll slowly creep up the grades over the years and you'll end up ticking a 7A at some point! As long as when you go out, you push yourself some of the time. (i.e. if you just do laps on 5s you won't make it, but you don't have to push to your limits everytime you climb, that's a fast way to get injured, trust me :P).
Just enjoy yourself, and get out as much as you can. The grades will come. Sooner the more you climb, later the more you relax.
I would agree that f7A is possible for all that really put their mind to it. Clearly it comes much easier to some and MUCH harder to others. But if that was someone's goal, to climb f7A (i'm talking getting to that level, not just projecting one) then it is doable.
Clearly there will be some people who are naturally talented and if they climb twice a week for a year or two, they will just end up at that level. Where there will be others who would train 4-5 times a week and get there after a number of years.
From your profile, it says that you've only been climbing 1-3 years, and you're only 27. The great thing about climbing is that there are so many facets to it, that you can continue to progress well past the age where other sports it becomes a barrier. I know a good number of folk in their 50s operating at the f7+ level.
I'd just get out climbing lots and enjoy yourself, and you'll slowly creep up the grades over the years and you'll end up ticking a 7A at some point! As long as when you go out, you push yourself some of the time. (i.e. if you just do laps on 5s you won't make it, but you don't have to push to your limits everytime you climb, that's a fast way to get injured, trust me :P).
Just enjoy yourself, and get out as much as you can. The grades will come. Sooner the more you climb, later the more you relax.
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
I think it will depend on the person to some extent but I think 7a would be achievable by most climbers who are prepared to put the time in. I'm definitely well below average when it comes to bouldering strength and power - a good friend described me as the weakest climber he knows. Yet I've managed to climb V8 which I think is around 7b.
But bouldering is interesting because the climbing styles are so diverse and require such different skills and strengths: mantleshelves, dynos, fingery moves etc. that one can be very good at one facet and completely rubbish at another.
This suggests your training is ineffective. Are you getting stronger in measurable way? Do you know what your strengths and weaknesses are? Are you training your weaknesses? Are you climbing inside regularly if not outside?
If you're getting stronger but not seeing an improvement grade wise then that suggests it's either a technique thing or maybe a head thing. Only climbing outside once every couple of months is going to make it very difficult to get really good technique on the rock type you climb on.
I think it will depend on the person to some extent but I think 7a would be achievable by most climbers who are prepared to put the time in. I'm definitely well below average when it comes to bouldering strength and power - a good friend described me as the weakest climber he knows. Yet I've managed to climb V8 which I think is around 7b.
But bouldering is interesting because the climbing styles are so diverse and require such different skills and strengths: mantleshelves, dynos, fingery moves etc. that one can be very good at one facet and completely rubbish at another.
> I have climbed for years, dieted, trained, watched my nutrition, try to climb intelligently but still have gone no where grade wise in years.
This suggests your training is ineffective. Are you getting stronger in measurable way? Do you know what your strengths and weaknesses are? Are you training your weaknesses? Are you climbing inside regularly if not outside?
If you're getting stronger but not seeing an improvement grade wise then that suggests it's either a technique thing or maybe a head thing. Only climbing outside once every couple of months is going to make it very difficult to get really good technique on the rock type you climb on.
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In reply to galpinos:
Indeed, provided normal physique for the aspirant.
And as is also pointed out, achievable means that a person can climb that grade (as in one problem of that grade), not that they can climb all problems of that grade.
> Achievable by everyone doesn't mean easily achievable, it means if everyone REALLY applied themselves, they could climb F7A.
Indeed, provided normal physique for the aspirant.
And as is also pointed out, achievable means that a person can climb that grade (as in one problem of that grade), not that they can climb all problems of that grade.
In reply to Mowglee:
It says indoor 7a, which I'm guessing is a route grade not a bouldering grade.
> Your profile says you've bouldered f7A already?
It says indoor 7a, which I'm guessing is a route grade not a bouldering grade.
In reply to TheHorroffice:
I reckon the vast majority of youngish, able bodied people who aren't hugely overweight could train up to climb 7a / V6 if they really wanted to.
In terms of strength, if you want to get stronger you have to push yourself, don't just go to the wall and have a play, you need to focus on bouldering and push yourself, hard, every session. Getting warm, climbing a good volume of problems and projecting stuff at the top of your grade and trying it until you do it, then do another one. You should be doing this at least twice a week.
In terms of technique, if it's 7a on rock you want to do, then you've got to get used to climbing on rock. Get used to the smears, the unconventional holds, the balance and everything else. The more accustomed to climbing on rock you get then the more comparable (correctly graded) indoor and outdoor grades will start to feel.
Do all that, and most importantly keep doing it for a year or two and you should be able to climb V6. The thing with getting better isn't just trying hard, consistently trying hard over a long period of time which is the key.
I reckon the vast majority of youngish, able bodied people who aren't hugely overweight could train up to climb 7a / V6 if they really wanted to.
In terms of strength, if you want to get stronger you have to push yourself, don't just go to the wall and have a play, you need to focus on bouldering and push yourself, hard, every session. Getting warm, climbing a good volume of problems and projecting stuff at the top of your grade and trying it until you do it, then do another one. You should be doing this at least twice a week.
In terms of technique, if it's 7a on rock you want to do, then you've got to get used to climbing on rock. Get used to the smears, the unconventional holds, the balance and everything else. The more accustomed to climbing on rock you get then the more comparable (correctly graded) indoor and outdoor grades will start to feel.
Do all that, and most importantly keep doing it for a year or two and you should be able to climb V6. The thing with getting better isn't just trying hard, consistently trying hard over a long period of time which is the key.
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
I went from occasional font 6b, but mostly easier to doing several font 7as in the space of about 4 months - this is what I did.
In that period I climbed 1.5 times a week (ie once some weeks and one weekend day plus an evening in other weeks).
I tried to go outside on the same rock type once a week.
I went out with climbers who were substantially better than me. I watched them on problems and always tried the problems they were, even if I could only do a couple of moves. I copied their movements, as I figured that they were only human and if they could stick their foot on such and such then so could I.
After a couple of months I had ticked lots of 6bs and a few 6cs too of all different styles except dynos. I then got on a fairly powerful 7a that didn't suit me, but that I did really want to do, spent half a day working it out and did it. I did a few more 7as in the following month of a more slabby style that suited my weak arms and then I went winter climbing shit loads and forgot how to boulder.
I went from occasional font 6b, but mostly easier to doing several font 7as in the space of about 4 months - this is what I did.
In that period I climbed 1.5 times a week (ie once some weeks and one weekend day plus an evening in other weeks).
I tried to go outside on the same rock type once a week.
I went out with climbers who were substantially better than me. I watched them on problems and always tried the problems they were, even if I could only do a couple of moves. I copied their movements, as I figured that they were only human and if they could stick their foot on such and such then so could I.
After a couple of months I had ticked lots of 6bs and a few 6cs too of all different styles except dynos. I then got on a fairly powerful 7a that didn't suit me, but that I did really want to do, spent half a day working it out and did it. I did a few more 7as in the following month of a more slabby style that suited my weak arms and then I went winter climbing shit loads and forgot how to boulder.
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
Everyone can climb font7a. Well not fat people, but everyone else. Actually, not people with no arms. Everyone else can.
Oh hang on, there may be a 7a slab someone could do with no arms, Johnny Dawes might know?
So basically everyone but fat people.
Edit: I'm fat and have climbed font7a. Hmmm, guess that means everyone then!
Everyone can climb font7a. Well not fat people, but everyone else. Actually, not people with no arms. Everyone else can.
Oh hang on, there may be a 7a slab someone could do with no arms, Johnny Dawes might know?
So basically everyone but fat people.
Edit: I'm fat and have climbed font7a. Hmmm, guess that means everyone then!
Post edited at 12:26
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
I've heard many versions of that piece of climbing wisdom (including a few threads on the topic on here), and opinions on the "achievable by anybody grade" vary widely - so much so that trying to come up with a specific grade threshold is pretty much meaningless. In my opinion.
I've heard many versions of that piece of climbing wisdom (including a few threads on the topic on here), and opinions on the "achievable by anybody grade" vary widely - so much so that trying to come up with a specific grade threshold is pretty much meaningless. In my opinion.
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
The answer is both yes and no.
If you're prepared to spend hours, weeks or even months working a 7a problem, sooner or later most folk will eventually get lucky and do it.
But does that mean you can climb 7a - of course not.
One swallow doesn't make a summer, and you only have to look on UKC, to see that most folk don't climb 7a.
I'm also doubtful that even if everyone started training and getting serious, that any more than 70% would get to being able to climb 7a consistently.
> I have come across a number of comments stating that bouldering at 7a is achievable for everyone who puts in a bit of effort and that this is where 'proper' bouldering starts.
> This is rather disheartening as I find anything in the 6b-6c range (peak's/northumberland mainly) mind alteringly, unbelievably hard. I am normally comfortable ish on 5's, 6a feels nails but doable, 6b feels utterly out of my league and 6c is just mind bending. Forget about anything given a 7. So whats up?! I have climbed for years, dieted, trained, watched my nutrition, try to climb intelligently but still have gone no where grade wise in years. The only link that is missing is that I only get outside once every couple of months....
> I'm not sure what my point is, climbing feels hard I guess! Can anyone make it easier please?
The answer is both yes and no.
If you're prepared to spend hours, weeks or even months working a 7a problem, sooner or later most folk will eventually get lucky and do it.
But does that mean you can climb 7a - of course not.
One swallow doesn't make a summer, and you only have to look on UKC, to see that most folk don't climb 7a.
I'm also doubtful that even if everyone started training and getting serious, that any more than 70% would get to being able to climb 7a consistently.
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
My mother is 89 she will never climb Font 7a no matter how hard she tries. I could find tens of millions of people in the UK who would also have no chance no matter how hard they tried. Therefore the statement is demonstrably false.
The only value of claims like 'everyone can boulder 7A' or 'anyone can run a 3 hour marathon' is as a motivation to try harder or as a sales pitch for coaching.
> I have come across a number of comments stating that bouldering at 7a is achievable for everyone who puts in a bit of effort and that this is where 'proper' bouldering starts.
My mother is 89 she will never climb Font 7a no matter how hard she tries. I could find tens of millions of people in the UK who would also have no chance no matter how hard they tried. Therefore the statement is demonstrably false.
The only value of claims like 'everyone can boulder 7A' or 'anyone can run a 3 hour marathon' is as a motivation to try harder or as a sales pitch for coaching.
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In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
'anyone can run a 3 hour marathon'
As a runner I can guarantee that's not the case
(not me before it sounds like sour grapes. I train with a mixed bag of people and some of them couldn't run a 3 hour marathon if they gave up the day job and spent 24/7 working towards it.)
'anyone can run a 3 hour marathon'
As a runner I can guarantee that's not the case
(not me before it sounds like sour grapes. I train with a mixed bag of people and some of them couldn't run a 3 hour marathon if they gave up the day job and spent 24/7 working towards it.)
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
I once thought Yorkshire 6a (now defunct UK bouldering grade (sadly abused and neglected system but thats for another thread)) was too hard. So I decided to do 25 of them in a year. It became a normal thing to climb.
I am sure you can do 7a with the level of lifestyle adjustments and commitment you appear to be making already. Forget dieting, get better and stronger! It sounds like you need to remove a mental block on the grade.
How many have you seriously tried at that grade? Pick a few you really like, work it with a team or when there are a load of people around and refuse to give up till you get it. When you have done it, go do another!
PS - I'm not sure what the grades are like in Peak's, I've never heard of it.
I once thought Yorkshire 6a (now defunct UK bouldering grade (sadly abused and neglected system but thats for another thread)) was too hard. So I decided to do 25 of them in a year. It became a normal thing to climb.
I am sure you can do 7a with the level of lifestyle adjustments and commitment you appear to be making already. Forget dieting, get better and stronger! It sounds like you need to remove a mental block on the grade.
How many have you seriously tried at that grade? Pick a few you really like, work it with a team or when there are a load of people around and refuse to give up till you get it. When you have done it, go do another!
PS - I'm not sure what the grades are like in Peak's, I've never heard of it.
In reply to petellis:
Thanks everyone, useful stuff! If only that discovering the general consensus is that bouldering 7a is indeed hard. I don't get out enough to project anything so tend to go for millage and experience than a big tick. I'll look at a 6C, shake my head and potter off somewhere else! It sounds like it comes down to a lifestyle choice - you cant have lazy weekends at home and expect to climb hard!
Thanks everyone, useful stuff! If only that discovering the general consensus is that bouldering 7a is indeed hard. I don't get out enough to project anything so tend to go for millage and experience than a big tick. I'll look at a 6C, shake my head and potter off somewhere else! It sounds like it comes down to a lifestyle choice - you cant have lazy weekends at home and expect to climb hard!
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
From what I can gather you've primarily bouldered gritstone / sandstone outdoors (peak's and northumberland) and then only once every couple of months.
That's not enough to learn how to climb gritstone/sandstone and the style is very different to what you will do indoors so climbing more indoors won't help you learn how to climb that type of rock.
There's a lot of open handed holds and how you hold them and so how your body is positioned is important. The hold will feel good if you hold it the right way but will feel impossible / hard if not.
From what I can gather you've primarily bouldered gritstone / sandstone outdoors (peak's and northumberland) and then only once every couple of months.
That's not enough to learn how to climb gritstone/sandstone and the style is very different to what you will do indoors so climbing more indoors won't help you learn how to climb that type of rock.
There's a lot of open handed holds and how you hold them and so how your body is positioned is important. The hold will feel good if you hold it the right way but will feel impossible / hard if not.
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In reply to TheHorroffice:
I would add that any such claim is simply pretentious BS. There's nothing 'proper' about one grade over another. The only difference is the harder grade has worse holds and/or further apart.
At Hueco bouldering started at V1 and even that is pretty hard for inexperienced climbers. When the Hueco system was developed though bouldering was only popular amongst a minority of experienced climbers so they didn't bother with lower grades because it wasn't intended to be a system for everyone and bouldering was very much a niche activity back then.
At my local wall the 7a circuit is only used by a minority of very good, very strong climbers. I'd estimate about less than10% of the climbers there climb on that circuit. Even then they don't find it easy. I saw one very strong climber trying one of those problems the other day. He spent well over an hour trying and in the end gave up as he was doing worse on it than when he started.
Hope that gives some perspective.
> that this is where 'proper' bouldering starts
I would add that any such claim is simply pretentious BS. There's nothing 'proper' about one grade over another. The only difference is the harder grade has worse holds and/or further apart.
At Hueco bouldering started at V1 and even that is pretty hard for inexperienced climbers. When the Hueco system was developed though bouldering was only popular amongst a minority of experienced climbers so they didn't bother with lower grades because it wasn't intended to be a system for everyone and bouldering was very much a niche activity back then.
At my local wall the 7a circuit is only used by a minority of very good, very strong climbers. I'd estimate about less than10% of the climbers there climb on that circuit. Even then they don't find it easy. I saw one very strong climber trying one of those problems the other day. He spent well over an hour trying and in the end gave up as he was doing worse on it than when he started.
Hope that gives some perspective.
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In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
Indeed.
On the other hand, I'd arge that Font 7A is not a grade reserved exclusively for super-elite climbers, and that it's potentially attainable for more people than maybe realize it.
My evidence for this is that I've climbed Font 7A -- N.B. only a single Font 7A outdoors, by means of finding one that really really suited me and projecting it over multiple days spread over the course of a holiday.
For reference, I was 39 at the time (41 now), didn't start climbing until my mid-thirties, I'm flexible, lightweight but not especially strong (can do a few pull-ups but only a few, generally weaker than many people I boulder indoors with), okay crimp strength, not bad technique (if I do say so myself) but also fairly clumsy. So, some advantages, some disadvantages, but I think it's fair to say not an elite climber.
So I wouldn't say "If I can do it anyone can do it". But if I can do it, it's probably attainable for a lot of people who (like me) don't start out seeing it as a possible goal.
And it was really hard. And getting to a level where I could regularly climb outdoors 7A (rather than cherry-picking and projecting a single one) would be a whole different level of work and training, and might or might not be possible for me.
The whole "anyone can do 7A if you just put in a bit of effort, anything below that is a warm-up, if you can't it's just because you're not trying" blah-blah-blah is thoroughly obnoxious, I agree.
And depressing/discouraging to anyone who actually finds 7A (or 6C, or 6B ...) really difficult.
But on the other hand, I'd say 7A (at least getting one 7A) wouldn't be an unrealistic/impossible goal for The Horroffice to have or work towards. It may be more within reach than you think.
> My mother is 89 she will never climb Font 7a no matter how hard she tries. I could find tens of millions of people in the UK who would also have no chance no matter how hard they tried. Therefore the statement is demonstrably false.
Indeed.
On the other hand, I'd arge that Font 7A is not a grade reserved exclusively for super-elite climbers, and that it's potentially attainable for more people than maybe realize it.
My evidence for this is that I've climbed Font 7A -- N.B. only a single Font 7A outdoors, by means of finding one that really really suited me and projecting it over multiple days spread over the course of a holiday.
For reference, I was 39 at the time (41 now), didn't start climbing until my mid-thirties, I'm flexible, lightweight but not especially strong (can do a few pull-ups but only a few, generally weaker than many people I boulder indoors with), okay crimp strength, not bad technique (if I do say so myself) but also fairly clumsy. So, some advantages, some disadvantages, but I think it's fair to say not an elite climber.
So I wouldn't say "If I can do it anyone can do it". But if I can do it, it's probably attainable for a lot of people who (like me) don't start out seeing it as a possible goal.
And it was really hard. And getting to a level where I could regularly climb outdoors 7A (rather than cherry-picking and projecting a single one) would be a whole different level of work and training, and might or might not be possible for me.
The whole "anyone can do 7A if you just put in a bit of effort, anything below that is a warm-up, if you can't it's just because you're not trying" blah-blah-blah is thoroughly obnoxious, I agree.
And depressing/discouraging to anyone who actually finds 7A (or 6C, or 6B ...) really difficult.
But on the other hand, I'd say 7A (at least getting one 7A) wouldn't be an unrealistic/impossible goal for The Horroffice to have or work towards. It may be more within reach than you think.
4
In reply to TheHorroffice:
They are talking complete nonsense in my opinion. Bouldering at 7A to me means a reasonable level of consistency in being able to work problems of this grade that are the grade (not soft touches). This, for most people who are healthy enough to try, means an unusual combination of aptitude, dedication, discipline, determination, availability and a reasonable level of injury avoidance; and the older you start the harder it becomes. As for climbing a 7A... that's very possible... from talking to folk I'm pretty sure some Hueco V1 sandbags are harder than some indoor f7As and I know from experience watching more talented pals that some font f5 sandbags are way harder than some soft graded indoor f7A problems.
They are talking complete nonsense in my opinion. Bouldering at 7A to me means a reasonable level of consistency in being able to work problems of this grade that are the grade (not soft touches). This, for most people who are healthy enough to try, means an unusual combination of aptitude, dedication, discipline, determination, availability and a reasonable level of injury avoidance; and the older you start the harder it becomes. As for climbing a 7A... that's very possible... from talking to folk I'm pretty sure some Hueco V1 sandbags are harder than some indoor f7As and I know from experience watching more talented pals that some font f5 sandbags are way harder than some soft graded indoor f7A problems.
Post edited at 10:17
1
1
In reply to TheHorroffice:
As others have said, you need to be climbing regularly outside to stand a chance at 7a on sandstone/grit.
Personally, I've only climbed a couple of 7as indoors, and that includes times when I was going indoor bouldering 3+ times per week, doing some pull-ups/fingerboard, etc, but the grades at the wall were hard. In most walls, 7a just feels impossible to me, the holds are too small and the angle too steep. [Actually, I've flashed a couple too in walls where the grades were completely wonky, but they don't count.]
In the Peak, there are lots of 7as that I can do, some even 1st go now I know the trick. There are also loads I can't do (and I mean really can't, as in failed to get off the ground after years of trying). They don't correspond to what are considered 'soft touches', they're just ones that suit me or not.
If you want to climb 7a, you'll need to have the strength from climbing well indoors (say 6c-ish), but you'll also need the familiarity with the rock you're climbing on and the technique that comes with that. If you can get a good, productive session every week for a few months, that should be enough, but once every couple of months ain't going to cut it.
It's no surprise at all that 7a seems impossible to you if you only get to look at one every 2 months!
Edit: here's an easy way to climb 7a. Train really hard indoors so you're doing 7a all the time, then go on some crap limestone that requires nothing other than pulling on revolting sharp holds with miserable, polished feet. They never top-out, so you won't need to worry about that. Just do indoor climbing outdoors! It's a complete sacrifice in terms of quality, but it'll get you the number. If you really want it without any regard for shame and cheating, there's a soft touch in Water-Cum-Jolly that's easier than the nails 6b+ next to it! Unfortunately, everyone knows it and all the UKC comments say "6b+".
As others have said, you need to be climbing regularly outside to stand a chance at 7a on sandstone/grit.
Personally, I've only climbed a couple of 7as indoors, and that includes times when I was going indoor bouldering 3+ times per week, doing some pull-ups/fingerboard, etc, but the grades at the wall were hard. In most walls, 7a just feels impossible to me, the holds are too small and the angle too steep. [Actually, I've flashed a couple too in walls where the grades were completely wonky, but they don't count.]
In the Peak, there are lots of 7as that I can do, some even 1st go now I know the trick. There are also loads I can't do (and I mean really can't, as in failed to get off the ground after years of trying). They don't correspond to what are considered 'soft touches', they're just ones that suit me or not.
If you want to climb 7a, you'll need to have the strength from climbing well indoors (say 6c-ish), but you'll also need the familiarity with the rock you're climbing on and the technique that comes with that. If you can get a good, productive session every week for a few months, that should be enough, but once every couple of months ain't going to cut it.
It's no surprise at all that 7a seems impossible to you if you only get to look at one every 2 months!
Edit: here's an easy way to climb 7a. Train really hard indoors so you're doing 7a all the time, then go on some crap limestone that requires nothing other than pulling on revolting sharp holds with miserable, polished feet. They never top-out, so you won't need to worry about that. Just do indoor climbing outdoors! It's a complete sacrifice in terms of quality, but it'll get you the number. If you really want it without any regard for shame and cheating, there's a soft touch in Water-Cum-Jolly that's easier than the nails 6b+ next to it! Unfortunately, everyone knows it and all the UKC comments say "6b+".
Post edited at 11:04
In reply to Jon Stewart:
O yeah, I think it's a bigger prize or something like that - yeah that must be 6b+ as I can't boulder on limestone at all and I managed that - I'm nowhere near any other limestone 7a.
In reply to everyone else, yeah there's a massive difference between being solid at 7a and climbing a few 7as that suit you. The latter is really achievable by a majority of climbers if they really want to and can boulder outside once a week. Just go with people who are climbing the grade, try loads of them, do some other nice problems too and within a year most people will get a 7a done.
O yeah, I think it's a bigger prize or something like that - yeah that must be 6b+ as I can't boulder on limestone at all and I managed that - I'm nowhere near any other limestone 7a.
In reply to everyone else, yeah there's a massive difference between being solid at 7a and climbing a few 7as that suit you. The latter is really achievable by a majority of climbers if they really want to and can boulder outside once a week. Just go with people who are climbing the grade, try loads of them, do some other nice problems too and within a year most people will get a 7a done.
In reply to TheHorroffice:
Yes, I've just started climbing regularly again and you can soon improve. Just train hard and enjoy it.
Yes, I've just started climbing regularly again and you can soon improve. Just train hard and enjoy it.
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