UKC

Reasonably safe E6s

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 Misha 27 May 2016
For a bit of inspiration, looking for some recommendations of reasonably safe, good quality E6s. By reasonably safe I mean no risk of groundfall or doing your ankles off 6a/b moves. Ok with big but safe falls and can generally deal with run out 5c and easier ground (always assessed on a case by case basis!). Any rock type, anywhere in the UK.

A couple I can think of:
Obsession Box and Grezelda in Box Zawn, Pembroke
Dreams and Screams at Rhoscolyn

Not saying I'm going to rush out and try them tomorrow but something to work/train towards. Thanks.
 Shapeshifter 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

Life Assurance - Burbage South maybe?
 GDes 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:
Hunter killer, Huntsmans leap. Big in America, bosherston. Fireball xl5, space face.
 deacondeacon 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

While looking for something similar Recently I came across this
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?sort=g&id=316

I've also seen some stuff on ukb/ukc along the lines of 'trad routes for sport climbers' can't remember the exact words but there was definitely a thread on ukb and a ticklist on here. Im sure someone will know.

Also plenty of grit E6's can be made safe with pads (as I'm sure you know) if that's your bag.
 Andrew Wilson 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

There is a really good video of Internal Combustion at Threshthwaite Cove. You can decide for yourself how safe it is! Looks like a great route.
Search "the angry pensioner", it's Rob Matheson on the vid.
 deacondeacon 27 May 2016
In reply to shark:

Cheers shark
 ashtond6 27 May 2016
In reply to Shapeshifter:

I'd imagine 'no ground fall', also means no ledge hitting
 mark20 27 May 2016
In reply to shark:

Also this one for gritstone
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=24910.0

Though I wouldn't say Life Assurance is particularly safe.
 ianstevens 27 May 2016
In reply to deacondeacon:

> Also plenty of grit E6's can be made safe with pads (as I'm sure you know) if that's your bag.

You mean if you're prepared to cheat? Yes the climbing is still E6, but part of the reason bold grit lines get such a grade is because of the danger/risk of needing to be carried home if you fall. If you choose to use pads in such a case its a (highball) boulder problem IMO.
16
 Tom Last 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

Toltec Twostep at Hound Tor occasionally seems to get E6. The wire/small cam (?) looked good the many times I fell off it (mats).
 deacondeacon 27 May 2016
In reply to ianstevens:
Cheating? Better not let the crag umpire see you then lol.
It's a rock climb and we all make own rules up on howwe take on a climb, and in what style.


In reply to ianstevens:
I'd agree with this, though not really with the use of 'cheating'. You can't take the E grade if you chuck a load of pads under it. Not saying there is anything wrong with padding things out - I flipping love highballing and it still feels scary (and can still be dangerous) but I'd never take the E grade for a highball.

I think Misha is looking for E6s that are onsightable so Toltec (although onsightable for some) would probably be out. Misha is a stam-lord.

Misha, having not done any E6s I'd say Pretty Girls Make Graves would be a good one. As would any Main Cliff or Yellow Walls E6 - the latter might be scary but you won't hit the ground on them! :P

Sixpence at Pavey is supposed to be amazing too.
Post edited at 09:46
 Luke01 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:
Sixpence at pavey is awesome.
Pretty girls make graves in the pass is ace too.
Oh, and eraserhead on main cliff, but I guess a few around there will tick the boxes too.
Post edited at 10:00
 CurlyStevo 27 May 2016
In reply to mark20:

so that's where sloper is hiding out
 J B Oughton 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:
The two I've done were both safe enough for me to have a bash and onsight:

Orange Robe Burning at Trevallen has a bit of a sketchy start above some uncomfortable-looking boulders but is reasonable after that.
Suicide Blonde at Daddyhole as well, make sure you get it in good conditions though.

Haven't done them but Hunter-Killer looks like a safe bet as well as Ghost Train, although you'd be risking a hugeee whipper on the latter so you'd want to use a sports rope and carabiniers on short threads ect to minimise decking risk.

Also as a bit of advice, when I set out to first try an E6 onsight I wish I'd realised that E5 is a very very broad grade - they can be really hard, and E6s even harder. I thought that because I'd found some soft E5 in Pembroke reasonable that E6 wouldn't be too much of a step up but they both turned out to be the most terrifyingly intense routes of my life!
Post edited at 10:17
 CurlyStevo 27 May 2016
In reply to Duncan Campbell:

Yeah I kind of think the same, if the climb gets a grade for being bold and its short then I wouldn't claim the grade if I used pads. That's said I think in the same vein is it worth risking breaking your ankles just to claim a grade. I'm in it for the climbing myself and the longer my ankles stay in one piece the more climbing I can do. I routinely use pads at some venues for trad (much of Northumberland being a good example)
 The Grist 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

Having never led an e6 (or an e5) I can't really add much. I have however seconded Lord of the Flies. I did it in excellent conditions and it was well chalked. The gear was spaced but adequate above 8 metres or so. Having climbed with you in the past I would suggest you would do well on it. You are good at placing pokey gear under pressure. It felt about F6c+ on second. I recall thinking I would be terrified to lead it but I know people routinely fall from it high up and survive. I am pretty sure that there is nothing that would stop you climbing wise in the first half. I would however recommend you do it when there is chalk on it.
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Exactly. I have really enjoyed things like Psycho and White Wand, but there is no way I'd risk breaking my ankles for them. I actually ended up having a month off climbing as I really badly bruised my elbow falling off a highball and it definitely wasn't worth it. My arm was basically fully unusable for 2 weeks and I was waking up in the middle of the night in pain for much of the time I couldn't climb.

Pre-pads the E grade for those sort of routes made sense but now its probably better to just give them a boulder grade and maybe utilise some sort of system to notify how bold a highball it is?

In reply to Mark Grist: 6c+!?! It seems to drop a grade every time!
 ianstevens 27 May 2016
In reply to deacondeacon:
Maybe "cheating" is a bit strong and not the correct term - but as Duncan has said below, good fun/terrifying in its own right but not deserving of the E grade. Given that the OP's post is for E6 recomendations, I'd imagine earning the E grade is what he's after. Do what you want, just be honest about it and nobody will care
Post edited at 11:18
 Graham Hoey 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

For grit, just search the UKC data base for first ascents by Neil Foster - most of his hard routes are safe enough (although you could take a bruising whipper, eg Balance it Is) and are all extremely good.

Have fun.
 dan gibson 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:
Mind Cathedral in Palace of the Brine at Swanage.
Well protected cave funkiness. I fell off the crux recently, the nut is still in there, so get on it Misha.
OP Misha 27 May 2016
In reply to ianstevens:
It's fine as long as you're honest about the style but I agree, to me it wouldn't feel like I've done an E6. Some good suggestions for grit on the UKB thread though. I'm not a big fan of grit generally but it's useful to have a few ideas of things to try one day.
OP Misha 27 May 2016
In reply to Joughton:
Agree re E6 being a big step up, especially if you don't choose them wisely! The reason they need to be reasonably safe is I may well fall off them! I've only led about 10 E5s and they've generally been at the easier end of the grade, so there's a lot of consolidation required and I'm not looking to jump on E6s straight away. What I find important is to have some routes to be inspired by.

Ghost Train is a bit too bold I'd say - isn't there a risk of decking out or coming very close?
OP Misha 27 May 2016
In reply to Mark Grist:
Lord is definitely on the wish list but what worries me is the start. I've heard conflicting opinions on how hard the moves are before you get to decent gear. Also I gather it's more like 7a+ overall and certainly a lot harder than Right Wall (which I've done - first time I went a bit off route after the good cam in the pocket after the first ledge and strayed into Lord in fact, where I pumped out as I was a bit tired from previous routes and fell off but got back on and finished it; second time a year later I went the right way and did it clean).
 Wft 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:
Re: Ghost Train

Second hand info but if you don't have a very nimble footed belayer and you mess up clipping the thread then you're hitting the floor. Think someone got away with it last year (?) Duncan will verify this.

I think it looks brilliant, but yeah, bold.
Post edited at 13:39
 thomasadixon 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

Bristol Cream (E6 6b)

Only one I've tried ground up, and definitely safe to fall off (we did, lots). Class climbing too.
In reply to Wood for Trees:
So this is a bit of a horror story but a friend of mine a few years back now set off up it as his first E6. He was climbing really well at the time (think he had walked up Yellow Pearls the day before).

Think his partner went first, then he managed to get through the runout and somehow fell off clipping the thread. His belayer apparently turned and saw three boulders he was going to jump between to take in the slack, got one, got the second and just as he was reaching the third he was pulled back as this guy's weight came onto the rope. Fortunately he was kept off the deck, but obviously was slammed into the wall a bit having had some rope taken out of the system.

He crutched into the pub later that evening with a thousand yard stare in his eyes. Not 100% sure what he did to his hip but he is ok now. Dont think he climbed for a few weeks afterwards.

I have also heard people express surprise at falling off clipping the thread.

This is a great thread - lets keep it going!
Post edited at 13:54
 The Grist 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

It certainly did not feel like 7a+ to second. I was able to concentrate purely on the climbing and there was no gear to take out at the bottom so it was straight forward. I would say the unprotected bottom moves felt like English 5c at most rather than 6a. Obviously leading it will make it feel much harder. Comments on UKC suggest first 50 feet are serious then adequate gear and possibly F7a overall. If you can eradicate your fall on right wall from your mind it would help. Just tell yourself that did not happen. Positive mental attitude .
In reply to Mark Grist:
Interesting comments re Lord. Though I think the nature of the right wall and its less than obvious gear would see the french grade soon be greater than 6c+ not to mention adding in the aura of Lord. (for me at least) still it looks absolutely stunning so I'll have to try it at some point in my life!

Above and Beyond at Fairhead looks incredible. Thats firmly on my list (along with Lord, Box Zawn E6s etc). Think its supposed to be a little bit scary with potential for not having sinker gear, but you as long as there is one good bit in between you and the belay you should be fine? Remember the belay wasn't exactly the most confidence inspiring from having done Wall of Prey though... or at least I'd definitely be looking to avoid factor 2ing it.


Post edited at 14:41
In reply to Misha:
Just remembered this Misha. The ones in green are good "tasters" according to Caff... so probably worth taking with a handful of salt.


http://www.jamesmchaffie.com/caffs-blog/archives/12-2014
Post edited at 14:43
 UKB Shark 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

Lord is not safe. The first 40 feet is serious. Its a brilliant route though.
 galpinos 27 May 2016
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Not anymore, he got banned.
 CurlyStevo 27 May 2016
In reply to galpinos:

haha some things
 Tom Briggs 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

I think you really need to be on-sighting at least 7b+ on bolts to on-sight most non-grit E6s in the UK. Safe ones like Pretty Girls Make Graves are 7b+ and you have to put the gear in. Boldish Pembroke soft ones like Orange Robe Burning (E5 anywhere else) or stuff at Gogarth can be as 'easy' as French 6c, but obviously you don't want to be falling off. Noah's Ark in the Pass is runout but you probably wouldn't die, but it has 7a+ climbing on it and would be hard if unchalked.

Pretty much any E6 in the Lakes is at least F7b and can be as hard as 7c or even 7c+ (Hell's Wall).

Looking at your logbook it looks like you've done a lot of trad, but not that much sport above 7a+. I'd try and consolidate more at on-sighting E5/7b. Obviously there are some super soft E6s around (depending on where your strengths lie) but quite a few have been downgraded!

OP Misha 27 May 2016
In reply to Duncan Campbell:
Eeek! Also remember Dan telling me he knew someone who'd done stuff like the Cad and Lord but then having a right wobble on Ghost Train.
OP Misha 27 May 2016
In reply to Duncan Campbell:
Rob was raving about Above and Beyond. Don't remember anything in particular about the Wall of Prey belay but I was leading through so didn't spend much time there.

Hoping to get to Pembroke on Sun and Mon, see you there? Keen to get on Jabberwock in Box Zawn and have a look at the E6s (as in have a look, not get on them).
In reply to Misha:
Yes a friend of mine (maybe the same person) had climbed a fair number of E6s and said he had a bit of a scare on it as he hadn't given it the respect it deserved...

I remember it being ok but that the flakes were hollow sounding. tbh I arrived with someone already there so it was hard to tell exactly how good everything was tbh.

Yep I'm down in pembroke for the week! Also keen to get into Box Zawn for Jabberwock as well. I guess I'll see you around!
Post edited at 16:45
 Jon Read 27 May 2016
In reply to Graham Hoey:
And there is the gritlist safe E6 list...

http://gritlist.wikifoundry.com/page/E6+Peak+District
http://gritlist.wikifoundry.com/page/E6+Yorkshire
And I'm rather pleased to see there are still some people out there updating it...
OP Misha 27 May 2016
In reply to Tom Briggs:
Yes, conscious of that and have done a bit more sport this year though still not that much. As I said, it's not a list for tomorrow or even this year but it's good to have something to aim for. My strength is stamina, weakness is reading and doing harder moves onsight. So an E6 6a stamina fest could just about go but the average E6 6b would be too hard at the moment unless I got the moves spot on (feasible ground up though), while a bold E6 6a wouldn't leave enough margin on the scary stuff. Realistically, more (hard) E5 consolidation required.
 TCP 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

Did Right wall and lord around 20 years ago - lord is a lot harder and the first 40-50 feet is serious you are going to hit the deck. If you were struggling at all on RW you are probably not ready. Most safe ish E6s will be physically hard, f7B or more. You need to be able to do f7a pretty easily I think its a bit of a jump up from E5, bit like the glass ceiling people hit between E3 and E4 once you cross into E4 is highly likely you will also do E5. Going up to E6 is another game. I did a few E6s but most were poorly protected.
 Michael Gordon 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

Gigglin' Crack?
 Ramon Marin 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

MIsha, we are on the same journey. I did my first E6 the other day, Lazarus at Bass Point, it's ok. Orange Robe Burning also a contender as it's King wad (now E5?). I've heard Jub Jub bird to be ok as well. The Bonxie in pabbay. And all the others Ged mentioned Hunter killer, Big in America, Fireball xl5 and space face. I would add Knock Yourself Out! I'll let you know if anything esle comes to mind
 rocksol 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

Days Kapital Raven Crag Thirlmere Fantastic well protected route Still tricky on top pitch

 Ramon Marin 27 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

I would also add Yukan II at Nesscliffe, i know it gets E7 but it's not. I've taken the ground fall before clipping the first peg and it's fine. I had a mini pad though, but even without pad it's ok. Safe as houses. Though you need to be able to onsight 7b/+
OP Misha 27 May 2016
In reply to TCP:
I fell off when I strayed into Lord but anyway what I meant was it's on the list of ultimate routes to do but not by any means the list of reasonably safe E6s! The Cad and Ghost Train fall in the same category.
OP Misha 27 May 2016
In reply to rocksol:
Ah yes that whole crag is awesome!
OP Misha 27 May 2016
In reply to Michael Gordon:
I'll leave Giggling Crack to a good friend who loves that kind of stuff...
OP Misha 27 May 2016
In reply to Ramon Marin:
Is there decent gear on Lazarus before you get to the (pre placed) nut? I've looked across at it from The Cull and it looked iffy getting there. Well done by the way! Knock yourself out, yes that's the other one in Box Zawn.
 MischaHY 28 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

If you fancy a bit of an esoteric classic then Natural Born Chillers (E6 6a) is a brilliant bit of moorland grit. Nice and safe too - you'd come close to hitting the deck from near the top, but you wouldn't make it all the way.

Being moorland it'll also be in condition in warmer weather.
1
In reply to Misha:

Having been on a few Main Cliff E5s which were well protected (seconded First pitch of mamoth mainly on aid as lower half of the cliff was wet from spray then led the top pitch of Citadel . On another occasion I pumped out on Positron pitch 2 and we backed off. I wonder if the E6s were like

So do things like Alien, Mammoth Direct etc. fit the bill?

OP Misha 28 May 2016
In reply to John Clinch (Ampthill):

Yeah a few people have suggested Main Cliff. I've only done Positron of the E5s so getting a few more of those done and then having a look at an E6 would be a plan. Positron P2 probably has the hardest moves but P3 is much more sustained and absolutely arm melting!
 Goucho 28 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

> Yeah a few people have suggested Main Cliff. I've only done Positron of the E5s so getting a few more of those done and then having a look at an E6 would be a plan. Positron P2 probably has the hardest moves but P3 is much more sustained and absolutely arm melting!

Big Sleep and Alien should fit the bill as far as Gogarth main cliff E6's go - although the moves on the crux of Alien are notoriously awkward to read on sight - but I'd also include Citadel, it packs a pretty big punch IMHO for its grade, and I've done easier E6's.
 Jon Stewart 28 May 2016
In reply to TCP:

> bit like the glass ceiling people hit between E3 and E4 once you cross into E4 is highly likely you will also do E5.

Interesting view. I'm crap and I've done a few E4s, didn't find any jump (psychological or physically) at all. I'd have to change a lot about how I climb to get to E5 though (although after a winter in the wall I might make it up Pacemaker, Lower Sharpnose always feels a couple of grades softer).
OP Misha 28 May 2016
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Yeah get on it! Good gear and crux at the top.
 Andrew Wilson 28 May 2016
In reply to Goucho:

Looked at Alien today, looks great.
 philhilo 29 May 2016
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Got on Pacemaker as a first E5 and found myself 3m from the top without much effort. Had a rest but good gear and would go a second time as I would not bother with half the gear - there is plenty of good pieces without resorting to the fiddly time consuming stuff.
 UKB Shark 29 May 2016
In reply to Goucho:

> the moves on the crux of Alien are notoriously awkward to read on sight

Yeah I couldn't work it out and you cant dog the crux as the gear is below you. Was given E5 when I tried it.

I've never managed to onsight an E6 (plenty of excuses) though Mammoth Direct was the closest (came off lowdown because I was intimidated and next go up found that where I'd come off was a no hands rest) so I'm going to make a concerted effort this year. Its going to be traumatic getting back into trad climbing. My goal is to onsight Reproduction at High Tor. There, I've said it.





 Wft 29 May 2016
In reply to shark:




> My goal is to onsight Reproduction at High Tor. There, I've said it.

Woooo they're some fine cards you've laid down
 Jack Geldard 29 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

Good luck! Dreams and Screams is awesome and really safe, and dead pumpy.

In reply to the comments about Ghost Train, I did this when it was still graded E7, and I didn't feel short-changed. I can't imagine getting up near the thread and jumping off because it is safe... It looked a long way down to me! But I am a bit of a wuss.

Lord is actually very do-able and mid grade E6 at most, probably in the lower end of the grade I would say and although not totally safe, I would say it balances between dangerous and safe - in the middle somewhere, and it is such a good route that it just has to be done.

Alien is also very safe and a good one to do. I found it straight-forward, but then I waited a long time for good dry conditions.

If slabs are your thing then the Rainbow of Recalcitrance could be a good mission too, and it has some run-outs, but they are all part of the fun?!

My big omission is Conan, can't wait to get a stab at that this summer, hopefully

Grit-wise my suggestion would be Shock Horror at Ilkley. Run out but I have seen a friend fall from the top and only brush the grass (gulp), and the climbing is so good.

Cheers,

Jack

ps. Duncan C - get on Lord! I'll belay you!
 Michael Gordon 30 May 2016
In reply to Misha:

These are armchair suggestions but for Scottish stuff Kelpie and Major Domo would probably fit the bill, along with many others I'm sure!
 remus Global Crag Moderator 30 May 2016
In reply to Michael Gordon:

If you're in the south then Bold as Love at Avon is safe-ish, as is A38 at trym valley gorge. Both would be good onsight prospects if you're feeling fit, though be prepared for a fight.

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