UKC

just a thought for all you climbers out there when down in portland noticed alot of the belay bolts are very worn, its happening all over the UK. Are people not getting fed up of threading belays! I know me and my mates are why not leave a crab or two if youve some old ones the we can all just clip and lower off. And make it common knowledge these are leaver biners. an when they look shagged out remove them. I know ive loads of old crabs ive left a few on a couple of routes locally but people seem to take them. Why I dont know if I found one would just be a leaver biner anyway. thoughts on this?

In reply to sammy5000:


Threading a belay really isn't that much effort.

If you've some old crabs that you presumably no longer want, presumably as you feel they've reached the end of their working life, why would you encourage others to use them by placing them on a route?

In reply to ianstevens:

I have a few Crabs that I no longer use. Not because they've reached the end of their working life, I've just bought lighter/ more modern ones. I'm sure others out there have done the same too.

To the OP - I don't sport climb much, but see what you're saying. It's far easier to replace a biner someone has left than replace the insitu lower offs.

In reply to sammy5000:

I wonder what the difference in wear is between threading a rope through, and the metal-on-metal of a 'leaver krab'.

Genuine wonder: no sarcasm intended.

In reply to captain paranoia:

I struggle to imagine an alloy krab cutting a steel bolt, although I'm not a metallurgist so somebody correct me if I'm mistaken.

In reply to sammy5000:

I guess galvanic corrosion could be an issue, especially on sea cliffs (salty air) so the biner wouldn't last long at all before it becomes potentially unsafe and might even accelerate corrosion of the bolt?
I'd rather thread through a bolt that I know was made of the right material for prolonged exposure and contribute a few quid to the local bolt fund.

I'd imagine getting teams of noobs to stop top-roping through the lower offs would do more to stop wear on the bolts...

In reply to Kyle Warlow:


Fair enough - I'm clearly more stingy with mine, and use them until they're dead (which generally means when they have grooves in from rope wear etc.). I assumed everyone else did the same, clearly I was wrong!

In reply to sammy5000:

Why not put a few quid in the bolt fund so these knackered routes can be re-equipped with spinning stainless rings in the same material as the bolts so you're not left with a load of rotten salty old krabs of unknown provenance cluttering up otherwise safe bolts? The good ones will just get nicked and the rotten ones will seize in place, a pain for the wary and a trap for the careless.
jk

In reply to Dandan:

I forgot about galvanic corrosion, hey that's how long ago I did chemistry! Yep no good on sea cliffs. As JK said steel rings are best as they spin and wear in different places rather than a fixed glue ins. Much better to thread to as you can push rope through double. Though the odd biner on popular inland routes still wouldn't go amiss.

In reply to sammy5000:

I'm sure the wear is often more down to people top roping directly off the bolts.

In reply to sammy5000:


Oh yes it would...

In reply to Dandan:

I don't know anything about this subject, but would a steel carabiner not have this issue?

Just a question I was wondering.

In reply to sammy5000:

The excessive wear is more down to people toproping directly from the bolts, so save your crabs (I wouldn't trust a crab you left even if you'd done so yesterday) and have a quiet word with anyone you see running a top rope through the bolts. In my experience the offenders are normally just oblivious to their error and the effort it requires to replace the damaged bolts. A friendly comment along the lines of 'your rope will get less twisted/ last longer/ run smoother if you put it through some quick draws until the last man... And oh, it won't wear the bolts out either!).... And then mention the bolt fund.
Fixed gear causes more problems than it solves

In reply to sammy5000:

If you want to donate a leaver-biner to the top of a route, cut a short length of corrugated plastic hose and slide it over the gate opening to make a "budget locking biner". I see these dotted around on the tiny secret crags hidden in the woods above Chamonix, I think they are a great idea. People are less likely to take them with them as they look a bit more like the furniture of the route, and they provide a bit of security from a snap gate bouncing open.

In reply to ElBarto:



Its complicated. But generally in a marine environment stainless steel lasts much longer than aluminium alloys or "ordinary " steels.