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Following Shauna Coxsey's MBE, who else (if anyone) should be in line for an honour for service to climbing.
I imagine that "service" to climbing means more than just personal achievement, presumably inspiring or facilitating others' climbing.
Post edited at 15:22
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Gary Gibson, Pete Oxley, Dave Musgrove, .... Piola Remy bros ( they can usually manage something for foreigners if they want to. )
Gary Gibson, Pete Oxley, Dave Musgrove, .... Piola Remy bros ( they can usually manage something for foreigners if they want to. )
Post edited at 16:15
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In reply to Rick Graham:
Might depend whether you consider the controversial proliferation of bolts a service to climbing.
> Gary Gibson,...... Piola, Remy bros.
Might depend whether you consider the controversial proliferation of bolts a service to climbing.
Post edited at 17:29
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In reply to alan moore:
He has a CBE (as does Doug Scott). Not sure who else apart from Bonington's knighthood.
> I assume Joe Brown's already got one?
He has a CBE (as does Doug Scott). Not sure who else apart from Bonington's knighthood.
Post edited at 18:20
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In reply to slinky wizard:
Fowler, Fawcett and maybe Andy Nisbet would be my nominations. Wouldn't argue with Eric Jones though. All, I think, universally respected.
> Mick Fowler
Fowler, Fawcett and maybe Andy Nisbet would be my nominations. Wouldn't argue with Eric Jones though. All, I think, universally respected.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Henry Foulkard (not sure about the spelling) the Peak District access guy.
Henry Foulkard (not sure about the spelling) the Peak District access guy.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
If you wish to recognise contribution to Outdoor Education then I would nominate Barbara & Don Roscoe. Their PGCE in OE at Bangor produced hundreds of qualified & motivated outdoor instructors over the years who in turn inspired thousands of people to get involved in outdoor activities.
If you wish to recognise contribution to Outdoor Education then I would nominate Barbara & Don Roscoe. Their PGCE in OE at Bangor produced hundreds of qualified & motivated outdoor instructors over the years who in turn inspired thousands of people to get involved in outdoor activities.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
I was also about to suggest Ken Wilson as one of the most influential journalists & publishers but I just read a post announcing his death - what a great loss.
I was also about to suggest Ken Wilson as one of the most influential journalists & publishers but I just read a post announcing his death - what a great loss.
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In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
Indeed.
> I was also about to suggest Ken Wilson as one of the most influential journalists & publishers but I just read a post announcing his death - what a great loss.
Indeed.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Not that I'm doubting she has contributed services to climbing, but I'm unaware of SC's activities outwith comps. - can anyone enlighten me please?
Not that I'm doubting she has contributed services to climbing, but I'm unaware of SC's activities outwith comps. - can anyone enlighten me please?
In reply to Natalie Berry - UKC:
Thanks, I do remember her CAC contribution now I read that, but I'm blocked at work from the 'Load more' section. Will check it out later.
Thanks, I do remember her CAC contribution now I read that, but I'm blocked at work from the 'Load more' section. Will check it out later.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Just a wee touch of anarchy: who in the climbing world really wants a Meaningless Bauble from the Establishment ?
Just a wee touch of anarchy: who in the climbing world really wants a Meaningless Bauble from the Establishment ?
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In reply to Bob Aitken:
That was kind of the point of my "if any" in my OP.
> Just a wee touch of anarchy: who in the climbing world really wants a Meaningless Bauble from the Establishment ?
That was kind of the point of my "if any" in my OP.
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In reply to Graeme Alderson:
And therefore least deserving of one?
> Maybe someone who makes their living from climbing?
And therefore least deserving of one?
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Fair enough Robert. On your later post, I can off the top of my head add -
W.H.Murray - OBE
Tom Weir - MBE
Hamish Brown - MBE
- arguably for their contributions to the literature of climbing and walking, rather than for climbing per se.
Mountain Rescue is a different (and arguably more deserving) case. Again, immediately to mind -
Eric Langmuir MBE
Hamish Macinnes OBE
Heavy Whalley MBE
Fair enough Robert. On your later post, I can off the top of my head add -
W.H.Murray - OBE
Tom Weir - MBE
Hamish Brown - MBE
- arguably for their contributions to the literature of climbing and walking, rather than for climbing per se.
Mountain Rescue is a different (and arguably more deserving) case. Again, immediately to mind -
Eric Langmuir MBE
Hamish Macinnes OBE
Heavy Whalley MBE
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Why do you ask this? Do you think that Shauna or Joe Brown or Bonners are the least deserving of a gong. All 3 of them make/made their living from climbing.
Why do you ask this? Do you think that Shauna or Joe Brown or Bonners are the least deserving of a gong. All 3 of them make/made their living from climbing.
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In reply to Graeme Alderson:
As in the much more general argument about the Honours system, there's at least a case to be made that Honours should go primarily if not exclusively to those who've made exceptional contributions in an unpaid or voluntary capacity, from altruism, social concern, or pure personal enthusiasm, rather than to those who have performed exceptionally well but have been financially rewarded for their efforts. Which isn't in any way to denigrate any of those who've accepted gongs; that's a matter for the individual.
As in the much more general argument about the Honours system, there's at least a case to be made that Honours should go primarily if not exclusively to those who've made exceptional contributions in an unpaid or voluntary capacity, from altruism, social concern, or pure personal enthusiasm, rather than to those who have performed exceptionally well but have been financially rewarded for their efforts. Which isn't in any way to denigrate any of those who've accepted gongs; that's a matter for the individual.
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In reply to Bob Aitken:
This is a nonsense idea that would mean a huge part of the population would not be eligible, it is possible to dedicate your life to a cause, make sacrifices for it and still earn a living from it, many who work for charities for example do so because they believe in the cause and dedicate themselves to it despite the fact that they could earn significantly more in the public / private sector. Shauna it could be argued is similar, she could be earning a good and regular income in the world of work possibly...
This is a nonsense idea that would mean a huge part of the population would not be eligible, it is possible to dedicate your life to a cause, make sacrifices for it and still earn a living from it, many who work for charities for example do so because they believe in the cause and dedicate themselves to it despite the fact that they could earn significantly more in the public / private sector. Shauna it could be argued is similar, she could be earning a good and regular income in the world of work possibly...
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In reply to Graeme Alderson:
But I wouldn't say that any of them got a gong for just doing a paid job. I think there is a wider question though as to what honours are for. I don't know, but I would have my doubt about pure personal achievement unless they were clearly seen to be inspiring role models. "Services to climbing" seems to imply more than than just doing your own thing. And I'm not sure about competition winners immediately getting honours, so (and I'll probably get a load of dislikes for this) I'm not sure about Shauna's or the bunch after the Olympics such as Mo Farah etc; something a bit more retrospective after a distinguished career might seem more appropriate.
> Why do you ask this? Do you think that Shauna or Joe Brown or Bonners are the least deserving of a gong. All 3 of them make/made their living from climbing.
But I wouldn't say that any of them got a gong for just doing a paid job. I think there is a wider question though as to what honours are for. I don't know, but I would have my doubt about pure personal achievement unless they were clearly seen to be inspiring role models. "Services to climbing" seems to imply more than than just doing your own thing. And I'm not sure about competition winners immediately getting honours, so (and I'll probably get a load of dislikes for this) I'm not sure about Shauna's or the bunch after the Olympics such as Mo Farah etc; something a bit more retrospective after a distinguished career might seem more appropriate.
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In reply to Derry:
Frankly I think he should get a knighthood just because "Sir Bear" sounds so ridiculous.
> Bear Grylls? Prob got one though. Services to stupidity
Frankly I think he should get a knighthood just because "Sir Bear" sounds so ridiculous.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
with the MRT members, I think it's as recognition for the unsung heroes, all of the "famous" climbers have achieved their goals for themselves, and some have been rewarded financially, but with the MRT, they carry out their work often at great sacrifice, behind the scenes, not just on rescues, but searching for missing people, they I feel are much more deserving of some sort of recognition
with the MRT members, I think it's as recognition for the unsung heroes, all of the "famous" climbers have achieved their goals for themselves, and some have been rewarded financially, but with the MRT, they carry out their work often at great sacrifice, behind the scenes, not just on rescues, but searching for missing people, they I feel are much more deserving of some sort of recognition
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In reply to dave moseley:
Agreed. And another deserving category might be the assiduous compilers and editors of multiple guidebooks, doing it from sheer obsessive enthusiasm, for small fees or modest expenses; often on the receiving end of dogs' abuse, and hardly ever given credit for their role in promoting much climbing activity. Andy Nisbet's already been mentioned; Geoff Milburn's another.
Agreed. And another deserving category might be the assiduous compilers and editors of multiple guidebooks, doing it from sheer obsessive enthusiasm, for small fees or modest expenses; often on the receiving end of dogs' abuse, and hardly ever given credit for their role in promoting much climbing activity. Andy Nisbet's already been mentioned; Geoff Milburn's another.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
I was with Doug when he got the letter.
For those of you dubious of such honours I can assure you that his first reaction was both suitably profane and disrespectful. But it's good that he accepted it, if only for his work with porters, regardless of his climbing.
> He has a CBE (as does Doug Scott).
I was with Doug when he got the letter.
For those of you dubious of such honours I can assure you that his first reaction was both suitably profane and disrespectful. But it's good that he accepted it, if only for his work with porters, regardless of his climbing.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Seem to recall Bonatti was given a medal by the French, possibly for his role in one of the epics he was involved in (whilst being vilified by his Italian compatriots?).
Seem to recall Bonatti was given a medal by the French, possibly for his role in one of the epics he was involved in (whilst being vilified by his Italian compatriots?).
In reply to Robert Durran:
I think the person who has had the biggest influence on British (and world) climbing has to be Jerry Moffatt. Apart from hard routes and raising standards he was the major influence with the current trend towards bouldering and was part of the force behind the Foundry, the first ever modern climbing wall.
I think the person who has had the biggest influence on British (and world) climbing has to be Jerry Moffatt. Apart from hard routes and raising standards he was the major influence with the current trend towards bouldering and was part of the force behind the Foundry, the first ever modern climbing wall.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
The honours are primarily for entrenching the position of the establishment and royal family through association. They allow the royals to patronise people who have actual achievements: the fact that the royals give the award demonstrates the royals social position is above that of the recipient. Giving gongs to worthy people also makes them more valuable as a status symbol for members of the establishment like civil servants, judges and generals. Finally, the awards system pressurizes an influential group of people into endorsing the monarchy and makes it hard for them to argue for its abolition.
If the UK is to have an awards system it would be far better if it was separated from outdated concepts like royalty and empire. What have the royals ever done on grit?
> But I wouldn't say that any of them got a gong for just doing a paid job. I think there is a wider question though as to what honours are for.
The honours are primarily for entrenching the position of the establishment and royal family through association. They allow the royals to patronise people who have actual achievements: the fact that the royals give the award demonstrates the royals social position is above that of the recipient. Giving gongs to worthy people also makes them more valuable as a status symbol for members of the establishment like civil servants, judges and generals. Finally, the awards system pressurizes an influential group of people into endorsing the monarchy and makes it hard for them to argue for its abolition.
If the UK is to have an awards system it would be far better if it was separated from outdated concepts like royalty and empire. What have the royals ever done on grit?
Post edited at 11:21
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In reply to iccle_bully:
Like Bankers, you mean.....?
> This is a nonsense idea that would mean a huge part of the population would not be eligible, it is possible to dedicate your life to a cause, make sacrifices for it and still earn a living from it,
Like Bankers, you mean.....?
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In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
What have the royals ever done on grit?
King Kong at Stanage I think...
What have the royals ever done on grit?
King Kong at Stanage I think...
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In reply to Chris_Mellor:
Wasn't Spike Milligan the FA of The Snivelling Shit, at Millstone? Naming it in honour of Prince Charles?
> What have the royals ever done on grit?
> King Kong at Stanage I think...
Wasn't Spike Milligan the FA of The Snivelling Shit, at Millstone? Naming it in honour of Prince Charles?
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In reply to stp:
Arguably, but he was never the "climber's climber" like Big Ron. Much as Fowler is the "mountaineer's mountaineer". They just went out and did it like the rest of us, except that they did it so much better (and Fowler still does!).
> I think the person who has had the biggest influence on British (and world) climbing has to be Jerry Moffatt. Apart from hard routes and raising standards he was the major influence with the current trend towards bouldering and was part of the force behind the Foundry, the first ever modern climbing wall.
Arguably, but he was never the "climber's climber" like Big Ron. Much as Fowler is the "mountaineer's mountaineer". They just went out and did it like the rest of us, except that they did it so much better (and Fowler still does!).
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