UKC

Hi I'm working towards my ML and wanted to know what sort of rope people tend to carry on ML work. I was thinking of getting 30 or 35m of about 8.5mm half rope to keep it fairly light and compact but wasn't sure if its better to go with a thicker single for easier handling and less stretch.

Thanks for any suggestions

Andy

In reply to Andrew W:

I have an 8.3mm 30m half rope that I used for my Summer ML. I went for the lightest half rope I could get rather than a walking rope figuring I could use it for other stuff.

For the walks I lead these day I don't usually carry a rope the tbh but then I just lead the odd easy hillwalk for Ramblers where if we need a rope something went badly badly wrong!

In reply to Andrew W:

Should also have said, I'd not want to go much thinner than the 8.3. If you're using the rope for classic or South African abseils then thicker is better, especially for classic abseils. If you're just lugging it around on the off chance of using it then a thinner rope might be fine.

In reply to Andrew W:

Agree with all all the above ref weight.

However, the few times I have used it in anger, a nice fat "hang a piano" off it 10mm has given that extra bit of confidence that my victim, sorry I mean the person I was helping, seemed to appreciate!

8.5 etc is fine though, my personal choice was the 10mm. I can carry the weight no probs so I do!

In reply to Wainers44:

You've used your ML rope in anger?

I'd go for 30m of 8.5 - 9mm half rope.

In reply to jezb1:

Yes must just be unlucky!! , a few times, including....


Once on Crib Goch on a lady who was part of the party I was walking with ("leading"? Hmmm good question. I didn't organise the route)and she found it much harder than she expected. I was 40% bigger than she was so could tip toe the ridge while dangling her on the rope!).

Other time came across mum plus two kids on Striding Edge, with child number 1 a mountain goat, child number 2 was rigid with fear, in floods of tears. I confidence roped him along then down. Saw them in the pub later and he thought he had a good day!

Used it to ab down some stuff too, all of which would have been fine with a lighter thinner rope. I just found that a 10mm fatty was more reassuring than a skinny one. No right answer maybe?

In reply to jezb1:




Sorry I should define this. I mean use the rope when I didn't plan to, after all MLs shouldn't plan routes that depend on the use of a rope should they.

In reply to Andrew W:

Hi Andrew.

I use a 9mm x 30m, as the 9mm feels more secure than a super-skinny one for anyone who is a bit nervous.

And I've used mine in anger a couple of times too. If you spend enough time out in the hills leading groups sooner or later you'll come across someone who just suddenly gets really nervous on ground that everyone else finds very easy. I've confidence roped a client down the short step on Ladhar Bheinn heading towards the Mam Barrisdale, and even once coming down the Ben on the Red Burn Path for a person who had happily gone up it, but thought it was suddenly very scary going down it. It does happen sometimes, so get a rope that you'll be happy carrying in your rucksack. OK, you won't be intending to use it as an ML, but there may come a time...

In reply to Andrew W:

For confidence roping I'd be more inclined to use a long sling.

I've never had to do anything other than use my "soft skills" or maybe lend a pole out.

Whilst the rope is obviously there to be used when necessary, I think as a leader you've probably made some errors if you have to get it out.

In reply to Andrew W:

Same as the others. 8 mm is light any thinner will make handling an issue. A sling and a krab are handy,

In reply to jezb1:




The only time I've used it is with friends when they've got into difficulty, not routes I'd have done with clients though.

I've been close to a few times on crib goch but by isolating the people and talking them through one on one it's always been fine.

In reply to jezb1:

Can't say I agree with you there Jez.

Soft skills are of course important, and generally will be sufficient in talking someone down something that they perceive to be difficult, but sometimes members of the public react in a way that you haven't anticipated, like my client suddenly becoming scared on the tourist track down the Ben. She got up it fine, and really enjoyed the ascent, but in misty conditions, which came in on the way down, she thought it was the scariest place on earth. That situation was nothing to do with me as the leader making an error.

The same can be said for my client needing a rope on Ladhar Bheinn. I've walked that ridge over 30 times with client groups and never had anyone freak out on that rocky step. However, on that day the client needed it, and if you know Ladhar Bheinn you'll appreciate that it is much simpler to continue down that ridge to the Mam Barrisdale than to try to find another route down or reverse the route back over the summit.

It is for the occasional instances such as these that MLs are taught about the basics of ropework. Unfortunately some people see it as a matter of pride that they have never had to use one as an ML. I see that attitude as potentially leading to an accident if the ML is too proud to get the rope out.

I do agree that in many cases a sling can be just as useful as the rope for confidence though. However, as you know, for ML a rope is the required piece of kit, not a sling.

In reply to jezb1:




I think you are probably right and I guess that's why MLTE have dumbed down the rope aspect of the syllabus over the past few years as far as I can see? Mind you, would I ever really want to use a Thompson Knott, and if I really had to, just how long could it take if the party had half a dozen in it?!

Unless it's a Group I have no prior knowledge of (leader failing no1?) then the softer skills should indeed carry everyone along. In my case on Striding Edge, the lad was a limpet, stuck to the rock hysterical with fear when I found him. I calmed him down but the only way he would move was by being tied onto the rope.
Back to the topic, 8.5mm, 9mm all fine. I just find the 10mm OK for me. The weight isn't an issue and the fact that the rope can be in more direct contact with the rock (anchors, direct belay etc etc) makes me feel happier with a fat full rope. Just my view that's all!

In reply to Andrew W:

30 Meter 8.5mm and 1 240cm sling with locking biner.

In reply to Andrew W:

I carry 25m of 8.3mm half-rope, in a stuff sack. My logic is that if it's that much lighter (8.3mm is about 75% of the weight of 9.5mm, and then 25m versus 30m is 83%, making it 63% of the weight of 30m of 9.5mm), I'm more likely to carry it than to leave it out thinking "ah we're not going anywhere where we'll need a rope today".
As far as I'm concerned, if I only get a single use out of the rope - that's fine, as I'd not be expecting to use the rope in anger more than once a decade.

(I don't have my ML but will hopefully go for assessment either at the end of this year, or early next.)