UKC

In the foyer of the sports centre today was a display board featuring the design for the new facility. This appears to show the climbing area having glass walls on two sides. This would seem to limit the number of routes available, would mean climbing in greenhouse like conditions and mean climbers ( including the many children using the present facility) could be under the constant gaze of passers by. I understand that the internal space will be narrow, so that the scope for overhanging routes is limited Also, the developers are keen to install auto belays..... I don't believe most present users favour this and it would mean that the NICAS scheme could not be operated.
It seems that a massive opportunity is being missed as a huge amount of money is due to be spent....but not on what is needed or wanted by present users or indeed the present management.
The only contact I can find so far to voice opinion is from the earlier consultation phase .
james.anderson@turley.co.uk.
I will try to confirm whether this is the best 'place' to express views.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Have to say from what I've seen/heard it looks like it's going to poor, more of a downgrade than a upgrade.
If that line of contact works I'd be happy to "express" some views

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Does the development affect the bouldering negatively or positively in any way?

In reply to ukb shark:

To be fair it would be hard to make the bouldering worse, though the problems can be interesting there's only so much you can do in converted squash court, feels pretty claustrophobic in there if there's more than half a dozen people.

In reply to Murd:

My son did a Uni tour there and said it was about as limited as the old Edge bouldering room but he did think having an on campus facility was convenient.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

This whole thing is really disappointing, just imagine the possibilities for a climbing wall where you can not only build the wall but you can build the building it sits in, completely from scratch.
Instead, they've squeezed it into whatever weird, wedge-shaped available space was left in their 'modern, angular' new building after they have fitted in all the square courts and pools and halls and studios.
Acute angles might look futuristic but they don't make for good internal space, I bet a fuss would be kicked up it they made all the badminton courts rhomboid.

A decent wall needs a LOT of space to fit in decent angled walls and to keep things safe. Unfortunately it has been designed with apparently no input from anyone knowledgeable in climbing wall building, it's just a showpiece to look good through the windows as people walk in. I can't see it changing now either, because from the point of view of a passer by, a room full of noobs doing 4+ on an autobelay looks just as 'cool' as people leading a 7b when you glance in through a window, so it does what the designer wants, sod the usability.
It will be too late to change once the building is built and nobody climbs there any more because it's so awful, it's such a shame. I really hope I'm wrong, I hope it's fantastic, but I can't see it happening, lets hope the new boulder centre in Coventry isn't too hard to get to...

In reply to ukb shark:

When Alex Fry was running it the bouldering was fantastic. Yes, it was small but with such good imaginative setting (and great atmosphere) I really enjoyed climbing there. He tried to extend the bouldering at the time but I think the business case wasn't there.

The uni club were very active as I remember and created some really good climbers.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

It'd be a real shame Pete, it was such a good facility.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:
Hi,

It was suggested to me to email warwicksport@warwick.ac.uk

I could not find the display board there this morning, but probably just missed it. (There were several, but none seemed to show the internal design in any detail). However, my impression this morning is consistent with what you have written. Given that this is an opportunity to build a dedicated facility, it would be a real pity not to make it one of the best in the country. The current wall has become very successful, but I think is more-or-less full in terms of footfall.

Jon.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Planning application is here, it's about the only thing I could find from Googling:
http://planningdocuments.warwickdc.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDe...

In that list are some floor plans, I printed them off and took some measurements (I measured wall to wall, not including fitted climbing wall), the climbing area is 45m on its longest side, 10m long at one end and 18m at the other.
This gives about 630 sq m (6700 sq ft) BEFORE the climbing wall is fitted, not exactly earth shattering size wise.

The boulder area is on the basement level and is rectangular 8.2m x 22.5m, giving 185 sq m (2000 sq ft).
To put that in perspective, the current bouldering at Bear Rock is 62 sq m (670 sq ft) so it is almost exactly 3 times the size, or 3 squash courts. Considering the current boulder room sometimes has 3 times too many people in it for comfort, I was hoping for 5 or even 10 times the size.
There does seems to be space for a traverse wall on the basement level under the glass walls, which is technically extra bouldering, could be good for circuits and warming up.

The main roped area appears to be divided into 6 U shaped 'bays' each around 5.6m wide. (this might just be the designer putting something in to fill the space.) It does look like it could be in excess of 15m tall based on the plans, which is at least half decent.
If it is built as shown with U shaped bays, the steepest angle you could have would be 20 degrees, but then you'd be scraping against the opposite wall when being lowered, not ideal. If you angled both walls to meet in the middle you would get 10 degrees of overhang and climbers butting heads in the middle, nice. This says to me they intend ALL walls to be vertical or near as dammit.
Also, if a belayer stands more than 2.8m from the base of the wall, you will be bumping into belayers behind you on the opposite wall. 2.8m from the base seems dangerously tight, so the reality will probably be less climbing surface than indicated.

There doesn't seem to be any provision for gear or seating in the climbing wall area, so it will most likely be paid lockers in the changing rooms and gear strewn about the floors.

I'll be honest, I'm not getting all that excited...

In reply to earlsdonwhu:


Why does the presence of auto belays mean that NICAS can't be delivered?

In reply to timjones:

I presume that the scheme requires pupils to learn how to belay properly.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

One suggestion I heard was to keep the present facility and take over the Desso hall ( and possibly the other squash courts). That arrangement would seem preferable to me and conceivably cheaper.

I think that the original plans were for 80 roped lines in the new place but I don't see that many fitting in if there's two glass sides.

In reply to galpinos:

Hi Nick.... hope you are well and still getting out. Now retired so I have plenty of time to get outside and at the wall(s).... not necessarily getting better but still having fun.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:


That would be ideal, is the old building not being knocked down or totally gutted and repurposed? I guess they can't afford to have 2 leisure centres can they?

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

The glass walls are to turn the facility into a free exhibition for passing non-climbers in the hope that they sign up for a taster session and so generate cash for the centre. High sports in Basildon has two glass sides and is open sided on the inside, giving just one wall for roped climbing.( 16 ropes and one auto belay ) when sessions are taking place it's very hard to spend more than an hour and a half there without repeating routes, unless you want to tackle 7a's. The staff are really friendly and the atmosphere is great, but at almost £10 a go I prefer the 70 mile round trip to the Reach where I can climb for 12 hours ( I wish) for £6.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

I have contacted Director for Sport and Active Communities
| Email: L.Dodd-Mayne@warwick.ac.uk | Twitter: @LisaDoddMayne

Hopefully, she will respond or pass my observations to someone else.

I don't think the existing building is being demolished or completely gutted. I think someone told me ages ago it was going to be more for conference etc users. The Desso hall end is pretty new anyway even if some of the other areas are looking old and tired.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

As far as I'm aware it does but having auto belays on line doesn't necessarily prevent the teaching of belaying.

In reply to timjones:

I suspect the auto belays are promoted so that savings can be made on staffing.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:


Why do you suspect that?

Every wall with auto belays that I have ever visited has continued to offer a full range of sessions and classes. If NICAS is economically viable then it seems unlikely that a wall would axe it.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Update.
I contacted Lisa Dodd-Mayne who responded quickly and is keen to receive views and representations by email or in person.
They are keen that the new building highlights activity taking place, hence the glass walls.
A 'climbing consultant' has apparently been engaged and now they are putting the wall designs out to tender to 5 companies. So at the moment nothing detailed has been decided.
Apparently, the narrowest point of the new facility will be the same as at the present wall and at its widest it will be twice the size. Heights of some routes will be 15 m- ie. higher than present.
Bouldering space will be twice the present size.



So if you as an individual or representative of a group that uses Bear Rock, have views on what you would like to see, I suggest you contact Lisa.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Do you mean nothing but auto belays? i.e. normal belaying not available at all? Most walls I've been to that have the facility at all only have auto belays on a couple of routes.

In reply to bigbobbyking:

My understanding was that autobelays were going to be widespread.....however defined in terms of proportion of total lines. I will try to find out more next time I am there. If you are a potential user and don't want to see autobelays widely deployed, then I suppose you need to feed that view forward. Similarly, if you want lots of them!

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Yep, still getting out though two girls ( and 6 months) and limiting the opportunities and my standard is slipping.
Hope retirement is suiting you!

In reply to Dandan:
Where can I find out more about the Coventry boulder centre - it draws blanks on Gurgle.

In reply to galpinos:



Hey Nick. Hope u well. Yeah I thought the bouldering was good given the limit space given over to it. When I was working for Mike Smith he was very good at involving me and letting me make suggestions for the development of the centre - you should have seen the original squash court bouldering design, fortunately they took my suggestions on board. When I was the centre manager after mile left they were very happy to let me run the wall my way but their is a definite old boys club feel about the higher levels of management at the uni and being only a kid at 30yrs old it was hard to influence any of the bigger decisions. It would be good if it was done properly bit it think it would be hard for someone with the right knowledge to be taken seriously. Though having said that I haven't had any contact with the staff there since I left so a lot could have changed.

In reply to lx:

Yep, I'm well though slowed even more by the girls. I've got the Depot on my doorstep now which is a little larger than Bear Rock was...... I did enjoy climbing at Bear Rock though, good people, Neil, Mark Ian etc and having you on hand for the vital beta always made a difference! Hope the setting and holds business is going well.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:
Today I had a meeting with Lisa Dodd-Mayne, Director of Sport & Active Communities.
I had a heard a fair amount of rumor about the new proposed development and like many others was concerned about the possible outcome. i have to say when i left the meeting that those fears were replaced with a positive outlook. I found that she was very willing to listen to what I (and my climbing partner) had to say, there was no BS. Training areas, wall types, auto belays and other many other subjects were discussed. Also it was made clear that further input would be welcome. It's certainly not the doom gloom that I had heard.

In reply to Murd:

Well done for going along. I am relieved that you got a favourable impression about the proposals. I hope the 'climbing consultant ' heeds the advice!
As I said, my sense was that Lisa would welcome plenty of views.

What was said about auto belays?

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:


There is nothing on Google, they are keeping very tight lipped, this is all we have to go on so far:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=645398

Just keep an eye out I suppose.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

I heard that the plan might be to set up the lower-offs autobelays can be installed, rather than necessarily actually installing them, if that makes sense. Thinking about the current wall, would autobelays be unsuitable for quite a lot of the routes? I don't know much about them.

It has been proposed to use plywood boards, instead of the (mostly) featured fibreglass(?) walls.

Jon.

In reply to l21bjd:

It would be a shame not to have any featured panels and walls. The end wall at present does give some realism and focus on footwork. I recently went to the new Redpoint in Worcester and I thought it very good but it too lacks the featured panels.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:
I expressed my own opinion on autobelays, might not be the same as everyone else's... to have some, maybe on a couple of easy routes and possible on a few harder panels to allow people to train endurance without have to bore a belayer to death, but not a blanket covering of them.
As for featured walls, they were high on the wish list, having them along with that comp wall are what makes me drive there rather than the nearer options... the two things that are missing from Worcester, which I have to say was very nice in every other aspect.
To add, many things have be proposed but nothing is yet set in stone, have your own say.