UKC

Hello,

My Sony RX 100 has inexplicably died after 2 years of use so I'm in the market for a new camera.

I can't really afford another RX100 and I didn't get along with it that well.

Any recommendations for a camera that does the following
-wide angle lens
-good quality lens
-good batter life
-small, ideally smaller than the RX100 which was a little too big/heavy for carrying up big routes.

I've had 2 Canon S series in the past and have been pleased with both of them. Does anyone have any thoughts on the s200?

Also I'm intrigued by the Panasonic FT5EB. Does anyone have any experience of these?

Any other suggestions gratefully received.

Tom

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Whats your budget?
Looks like the G9X is the successor to the S series. S200 seems to be a cheaper version of the older S120. I've got an S110, great camera with really good feature set, full manual, real aperture control, RAW output.
Based on the specs I'd buy a G9X if I were looking for something that size today. Has a much larger sensor than the S200, same size sensor as the RX100. But the G9X weighs about 15% less than the mk1 RX100, or 30% less than the newer ones (which one did you have?)

Panasonic FT5 - see dpreview, obviously you're getting a solid camera, but the pics won't be anything compared to a rx100 or g9x. Also it's about 3 years old it seems.

In reply to tk421:

Thanks for the reply.

I suppose my budget is up to £300. I would prefer to spend a bit less as I rarely shoot in anything other than automatic mode.

I got on really well with my S100. Will the shots I can take with an s200 be substantially worse? I don't shoot in RAW. Seems like a pretty good camera for £110.

In terms of usage my photos get used for the following:
-blog
-Instagram
-I occasionally blow them up big and frame them
-occasional magazine article i write
-occasional guidebook shot

Thanks

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I've an ft5, with an ft3 before that, I'd recommend it as a take anywhere, not look after too much camera that sits outside my layers for summer and winter so one handed shots while busy are easy. Pictures seem good too, was top of the waterproof cameras when I bought it. Didn't think much of the GPS, but used it twice when calling mr (not for me) so it had had its uses.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I've been looking at the Oly TG-4. Sneaks in under your £300 budget, but only just. It gets very good reviews and as it's so tough it might get used a little more often than a non-waterproof camera which you'd have to be a bit more precious about. It's a very different camera to the G9X or RX100, but probably better than the Panasonic FT5. Anyone got/used one?

I have Oly TG-3 for last two years. Most of the time I just clip it with crab to my harness and use it a lot. Absolutely amazing peace of kit and if I would destroy it eventually I would just buy one again.

It got used on sport, alpine and via ferratas routes and took a lot of beating. It's all covered with dents, but so far only real damage was a silver ring for extension lenses falling off - got it back with superglue. It felt multiple times. Biggest fall was about 3 meters in to beach sand.

Underwater pictures unfortunately not that good. Or I just can't get a hand on underwater shooting.

Since I got it I just realised how many more pictures I started to take on climbing trips!

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

It's a balance between a tough camera with a not so good lens and sensor but which you will always have ready to take shots but which is good in bright light but not so good in dim light.

Or a much better sensor / lens but which you have to protect and the chances are you will end up with not taking a lot of shots just because of the effort to dig it out.

Every time I think of changing my Olympus tough for a RX100 or similar I go back to the above argument and decide that a not quite so good shot beats a non existent one.

Now if the RX100 V was waterproof.......

In reply to m0unt41n:

I've got an original RX100 which I find brilliant for climbing, but I am thinking of getting an Olympus TG older model for about £100 odd for kayaking and foul weather days. I used to use a small sensor tough camera for all climbing but the image quality just wasn't good enough especially in poor light and the photos looked rubbish alongside my Fuji CSC ones.

In reply to Robert Durran:

It's frustrating since the TG are good in bright sunshine.

Because its quickly available strapped to rucksack belt or in pocket without case then I can get the shots I would miss or couldn't be bothered with if I had to dig it out and I also reckon I would be quite happy with a fixed focal length, anything in the 28 to 35mm range so would trade off zoom for weather proofing and bigger aperture.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

What didn't you like/get on with on the RX100?

(Too big/heavy to take up routes, what!)

In reply to galpinos:

I wasn't that impressed with the images it produced. It would also often focus on the wrong part of the photo, meaning the climber ended up blurry. I got much better shots with my smaller S100, before that died.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

That could be a problem related to larger sensor in RX100. Larger sensor produces shallower depth of field, hence you need to more careful what you are focusing on. Smaller sensor has larger depth of field and pretty much everything in the frame will be sharp.

In reply to Pietrach:


Is that true in absolute terms or only if it is large relative to the diameter of the lens?

In reply to Robert Durran:

It is generally true, a small sensor would need a much faster (bigger aperture) lens for the same depth of field, lenses don't get much faster than the f1.8 on the RX100.

I had similar issues with my RX100 until I made it use one small central focus point, which I use to focus, then recompose the image to take the shot.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Olympus TG4 lens of F2.0, shoots HD video, very good, had mine a year now & can do great Macro (2cm close focus), night shoots etc etc...

Sold my big SLR kit & find photography much more "fun" now!

I got the rubber "body glove" for it & the screw mount for the tele convertor lens. Also keep a UV filter on all the time to protect the lens.

In reply to Dan Arkle:

I've had my RX100 for 3 years (original Mk 1 model) but only just taken it on it's first Alpine trip. Generally very pleased with the results. At f5.6 the results are very sharp through most of the zoom range and across most of the frame - provided I held the thing still of course. Still really sharp on the laptop screen at 1:1 magnification. However, to increase depth of field with people in the foreground I stopped down to f11 for quite a few shots and these are not as sharp. I'll be more wary of doing that in future.

Martin

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Panasonic GM1 or 5 (or the 7 that is supposed to come out soon) with a Panasonic 14mm/f2.5 pancake is about my dream climbing cam. But way over your budget.

I did however get this:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-world-s-smallest-4k-camera-mokacam-a...

And with the screen it actually seems almost suitable. What is missing is a water (or at least splash-proof) housing that also accommodates the screen, the extra battery is already taken care off.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Got a TG3, its been up The Nose, dragged along under the sea to 15m, bashed up British trad of all types, multiple Scottish winter gnarl fests, and dived in frigid Lake District rivers. I shoot and drop it on a lanyard. Shots seem pretty good in all environments and video is great too. Yep lost the decorative ring on the front, but another cost a fiver and I bought a macro flash diffuser as its brilliant at macro shots too. Battery seems to go on for ever in all conditions. Has smart phone link to enable remote operation (useful whilst soloing), downloading of pics via Bluetooth. Built in GPS, built in compass, and that's just the stuff I have used!
It gets used a lot as its small, compact, sits in a pouch on the back of my harness, and Tough. I used to have a rake of SLRs - which hardly ever went out, not many good pics off them.
My vote goes for the TG.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I do wish they made a tough camera that shot RAW. You can sort out so many problems in post, perfect if you've taken a quick one handed shot in a camera with limited functionality.

In reply to Dave 88:

The TG4 does RAW

In reply to Robert Durran:

Really? Well every day is a school day, get a TG4 then Tom!

Any thoughts on a Panasonic TZ80?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


In very similar usage to what you are saying, I'm dissappointed with my S120. The flash has broken on it (won't pop up anymore) and I think it isn't taking as nice photos when it was new. Inexplicable really, as I'm still using the same settings and all that. The battery life is also rubbish compared to other cameras I've had and it is particularly badly affected by the cold.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Gets a lot of stick for poor image quality. I had its predecessor and got rid of it for the same reason.

In reply to Mike-W-99:

Interesting. The guy in the camera repair shop (who didn't sell cameras) raved about his tz80 and said the rx100 was a compact with a load of fancy marketing surrounding it. My rx100 was going cost in the region of £200 to repair.

I've also bought and returned a Canon s200. It seemed cheap and big down grade from the RX100.

Now thinking about getting another RX100 (and setting it up we Dan Arkle recommends) as they're the same price as the TZ80.

Any other thoughts or recommendations?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


I think that when the RX100 first came out, its sensor size was was a major step up for a compact, so not just marketing hype. Of course other makes may have caught up now. When my RX100 died from damp, I didn't look beyond a direct replacement because the Mark 1 was by then so favourably priced.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Another vote for the Oly TG series. I have the TG3, and like others have mentioned, it has been used and abused in most environments - trad, alpine, sport, underwater, winter conditions, used on school expeditions and generally thrown around. It has survived all of that and still looks new!! The shots are amazing and every time I go out, I just pop it into a small black zip up soft case with a 240 cm sling through it, put it over my head and shoulder, and that's it. I see a good picture, I draw it like a gun from a holster.

If you want other recommendations - Oly TG4; Panasonic Lumix; Oly OM-D E-M5 Mark ii; Oly OM-D E-M1

I know you mentioned budgets. I went to the camera store to buy something that was worth 80 quid and walked out with a TG3 for 280. It looked incredible and I was not disappointed. If you can afford any Olympus camera, or a Panasonic Lumix, you won't go far wrong.

Enjoy the photography

H.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Whatever you end up buying, get the damn Peak Design Capture Clip. If anything has made me make better photos, it's this thing.

Why? It takes less time to get your camera ready, which can determine between a god shot and a terrible one. I also end up taking more photos because I don't have to stop and take my rucksack off (well, that's more walking oriented case). I used it for rock alpine stuff in the Dolomites, including 250m chimney climbs. The camera gets scratched, but it just shows the character! I also use it for winter stuff and mountain biking. I had my camera covered in ice once, but it still worked perfectly after that. I now have OM-D E-M5 II which is rated for water resistance, so just leave it on in harsh weather in Scotland...

When I'm out and meet other folk, there's a higher than 50% chance that someone will ask how is my camera attached to the shoulder strap. It's a satisfying thing to see others taking their rucksacks off, taking the camera bag out, take a photo and reverse the process... It saves so much time.

In reply to PPP:

What's wrong with an old snap link and a length of cord? Works fine for me.

In reply to Mike-W-99:

Less stable and gets in your way more? I would like to see an OM-D E-M5 II with 12-40mm F2.8 hung by a cord. Maybe it works for a point and shoot, but my setup is pretty much the size of a small DSLR. It also doesn't snag and does not restrict movement as much, but makes a terrible noise if you drag your chest against the rock...

Apart from hitting the camera with the chin once, it worked flawlessly even while being in the air on a mountain bike. You... just don't notice the camera being there most of the time.

I'm not kidding that people ask where they can get one. I know a lot of folk try to justify their purchases saying it's the best stuff ever, but it actually is.

In reply to Mike-W-99:


Or a padded case on a climbing harness or rucksack belt with the camera attached with a cord. Can be put down front of clothing or in chest pocket for instant access while belaying.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Hi Robert,

The camera is in a 10 quid Lowe Pro case. The camera has cord attaching it to a krab, thus you pop it out of the case, take some photos whilst belaying, leave it dangling whilst partner completes pitch, then pop it back in the case when you start climbing etc.

In reply to Mike-W-99:


Sorry, yes, that's pretty much my arrangement. My comment was really aimed at PPP.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Interesting. I'm erring on getting another mk1 rx100.

I'm still tempted by an Olympus TG4. How will it compare interms of image quality?

In reply to mudmonkey5:


Anyone got any thoughts on the G9X. Seems more akin to my old S100 sizewise. It's also about 100g lighter than an RX100.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
10.4mm (not sure 35mm equivalent on that sensor)

ISO 125, f 8.0 and 1/800sec

Get in close to exaggerate perspective at wide angle

Choose subject in snazzy, bright ski clothing

Shoot RAW

Zhuhz it up in Lightroom!

In reply to PPP:



I second the Peak Design capture clip, its a great piece of kit.

Amazed you didn't get on with your Rx100. I couldn't imagine a better camera to take into the alpine and haven't experienced any of the same issues you have. Mine is a Mk1 though...

For all the other RX100 owners. My Mk1 died and although four years old and bought from Hong Kong the repair cost from Sony was less than looking at a replacement camera (I paid £110ish and I think they replaced the entire lens unit).

Logged the issue on Sony's website, printed out a freepost label, and Sony returned the repaired camera within a few days. Good service.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Thanks for posting this, very useful as I'm also thinking of getting a compact for taking climbing as my slr is just too much of a pain in the arse to drag up routes.

Can anyone tell me how easy the olympus tg 4 is to use with gloves on? It sounds ideal for what I want, but a review I read mentioned the controls being quite closely spaced.

In reply to MikeR:



I had a play with one in John Lewis today. Seemed like a nice solid camera. You'd certainly be able to turn it on and take pics with gloves on. Not sure about using the manual controls, but don't think that's what those sort of cameras are for.

Also had a play with the canon G9x which seemed ideal except most of the controls are by touch screen. I'd worry about these getting knocked accidentally when shooting one handed or winter climbing. Also if I cracked the screen on an expedition the camera could easily become unusable. Anyone got any expirence of it or other touch screen cameras?

Maybe I should get another rx100 and learn how to use it better.

Did anyone else with an rx100 have a problem when it whirs very noisily and operates slowly? Mine did this from early on its life.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


I had a top-end TZ about 10 years ago, was ace. Got a TZ55 recently - absolutely appaling image quality, far worse than the camera from almost a decade ago. Also, it was extremely slow - close to 10 seconds from turn on to taking a photo. I've stopped bringing it because it's so grim to use.

I know that's not a review for the TZ80, but it might be useful anyway.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


I had a Sony water/shock proof cameras with a touch screen. The screen was almost impossible to use when in any way damp and irritating when dry. I can't imagine why anyone would want a touch screen on a camera.

In reply to Robert Durran:


I use the touch screen to set the focus point on my compact and in live view for DSLR but that's it. Great for that, don't like 'em otherwise!

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


I've had a MK1 for 3/4yrs. No issues like that, still going strong.