UKC

I want to do a learn to lead trad course to learn the basics of building belays, placing protection etc, I have friends who have kindly offered to teach but learnt to lead indoors on a course and prefer the pace of being taught by a professional when it comes to safety stuff like this! I did look on the BMC to see if there's one of their £100 subsidised course but can't find one for trad lead basics. Have found 2 days courses for about £250 but wondered if anyone knows of any cheaper?

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

Join a club and you will learn for free. There are thousands of competent amateurs.

Al

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

I wouldn't be SO insistent on being taught by a qualified instructor - I've had a few instances over the past year that have made me question certain 'professional' opinions/methods. Not to say it's not a good option - it is indeed, but there'll also be a tonne of info crammed into a short amount of time, so you'll likely need to find someone competent to climb with after the course before you're truly confident. There are plenty of people here on UKC, myself included, of varying abilities, who'd be happy to take people out and teach them the ropes.

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

Hi Gracie,
YHM
Mark

In reply to mattcooperkay:

Matt, I'd be keen to hear more detail on what has put you off using professional instructors? What are the instances you speak of? Seems an odd thing to say.

Also, any instructor worth their salt will ensure that teaching days are at a pace appropriate to the learner, and as such will not neccessarily be "a ton of info crammed into a short amount of time."

In reply to RyanS:
For teaching lead climbing outdoors, you would normally be taught by an MIA/BMG as it is out of the remit of the lower awards. The problem is that if you want the quality of an MIA teaching you, you will have to pay for it!

In reply to Gracieclimbs:
My two day courses are £160 pp.
My website is in my profile, give us a shout if I can help

In reply to Gracieclimbs: If you book directly with pretty much any self employed Mountaineering Instructor (whether myself, Jez or any of the others who post here) you will be looking at prices in the range of £150-£170 per person for courses with two students for two days.
Booking through any VAT registered companies, as you found, prices will be around £250.

As with many things it is a balance between time and money. On a weekend course with a professional instructor you might learn a roughly similar amount to that you'd learn over perhaps three weekends climbing even with a really supportive club or more experienced friends who will undoubtedly have their own agendas rather than being solely concerned with teaching you.

If you're free every weekend, not earning much, are a short drive from great climbing and know loads of climbers then professional instruction will undoubtedly look extremely expensive. Conversely, if you're only free for the occasional weekend, are a long drive from any outdoor climbing, are on an above average salary and don't know many experienced climbers then things are likely to look very different.

Only you know your own circumstances, so I certainly wouldn't be swayed one way or another by online comments by random strangers.

In reply to RyanS:
Whilst I agree that most instructors are good, I have witnessed and have direct experience of bad instruction by "qualified" instructors. In some cases it's just been a bad attitude in others they have been teaching bad practice. I don't think UKC is the place to bad mouth anyone so I won't but a couple of instances with me took place at a centre that I expected better of. I would add that this was on an ML course rather than a lead climbing course but the same applies across the board, a certificate is not all there is to it.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:

As with any "trade" I'd always get some recommendations etc and not just rely on qualifications, because as you say not all instructors are equal.

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

I'm a firm believer in that the best way to learn is to get the miles in. I don't see how an intensive course will give you the experience to make you suitably confident in gear placement and climbing above gear and I think these are the main hurdles to trad climbing.
The rope work isn't really that challenging for 99.9% of what you're likely to do, although there is more to learn if you start doing multi pitch or alpine/mountain routes.

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

All of the above advice is good- good tuition and simply going climbing both work!

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

Thanks everyone for your advice, really appreciated. I'm hoping to get out next weekend and just go to give it a go on a really easy MOD or DIFF at the Peak District with my mate Pat then see how I feel about the course afterwards. I do want to learn the rope work for big multi pitch stuff.

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

You're welcome to get in touch if you're in the Peak. I can tailor a course to what you need if you like?

There're loads of ways to learn the ropes so to speak, but I think it's always nice to know you're getting the most up to date forms of practise, rather than learning one thing off someone and another off someone else.

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

http://pyb.co.uk/courses-detail.php?coursecode=RCC04&irisref=152

Difficult to beat PyB's 5 day course for value for money

In reply to birdie num num: I disagree with you there! PYB charge £100 more than me (and Jez and Mark too probably) for an equivalent 5 day course.

Also, I would prefer to decide for myself who is going to instruct me, based on recommendations and reviews, this is something you can't do when booking with a larger centre.

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

Lean climbing proficiency doesn't happen over night, so if I were you I'd team up with a friend to share the cost of hiring an individual professional, e.g. Jez and then get involved with a club to develop and be a climber. The cost will be less than a top end jacket or pair of boots!


......and if you ever take this to Scottish winter climbing give me a shout!

In reply to Mike Nolan:

Well if you can offer a five day residential course with bed, breakfast, lunch, dinner, cheap bar, gear, excellent comprehensive tuition, evening talks/lectures and free transport around the crags for five hundred quid…then I'll sign up!

In reply to birdie num num:

Check out my website and get in touch with me!

www.mikenolanmountaineering.co.uk

In reply to Rich W Parker:

Thanks Rich
I have family in Glasgow so could be a good excuse to check out the crags in Scotland!

Have found the Oxford Mountaineering Club so think I'll join that.

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

Really, I do not know, to find cheaper it is very difficult.

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

Book yourself with one of the guys on here for half a day or day to learn how to set up anchors and place gear on lead. That's all you need to start you off and there will be enough for you to work on for quite a while. After that climb with more experienced climbers (join a club?) while you clock up some miles - of course, you can also go out with a friend and practice too. If you do then pick short, easy stuff and practice placing gear on top rope at first. Multi-pitch, winter, twins, etc are things that will come along eventually and you can assess your training needs then. For now you need to get experience of making anchors and placing gear on single pitch.

I speak from the point of view of someone who started trad leading this year and it's roughly what I did. I've just done my first big multi pitch at Idwal slabs too The one thing I do have is a climbing partner who is experienced and who I trust to do things right. That's where joining a club would help I guess.

In the end though, do what you feel is right for you and have fun

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

Don't allow yourself to be overawed by what's you need to know. It's not a physics degree, in the main it's just common sense and some basic mechanics. Yes it can get more complicated but that extra knowledge comes with experience.

Al

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

Try and drag Pat out a bit more if you can, I'm sure he would be up for a weekend trip somewhere. Tell the sexy old dog I said "hi".

Cheers
Dave

In reply to Gracieclimbs:
I'm sure anyone booking with PyB will have an awesome time, I know plenty of their staff and they're great. You can argue with their facilities either!

Personally I'd go with independents, as I did with my WML assess last season. I'd rather pay a little less and know who I'm getting. Their 5 day ltl course is £600 compared to £400 for someone independent like me £200 is quite a lot to play with and most independents have plenty of kit to lend out, provide transport etc.

Pro's and con's to both of course, but let's face it, how can you not have fun and learn loads on a five day climbing course, whoever is providing it!

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

Check www.climbingholidays.eu website !

In reply to Gracieclimbs:

If you're keen to climb outdoors a lot and to learn to lead, and you're Oxford based, I'd recommend the Oxford University Mountaineering Club (www.oumc.co.uk or on Facebook), which has lots of experienced members (students and non-students) who can teach you to lead if you decide you fancy a non-pro approach (some even have qualifications too!) and organises climbing meets outdoors almost every weekend during term time.

In reply to Lakeslina:
Yes thanks - going to their meeting next week!

In reply to jezb1:


Slight edit, though we all knew what you meant - and that's what really matters.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

Haha, thanks I'm now picturing someone arguing with a toilet.