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Climbing coaches, have you found them helpful?

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 springfall2008 03 Sep 2016
I was wondering about taking a few private coaching sessions at the local climbing wall, but was wondering if it's worth the money. I currently climb around 6b/6b+ indoors and can often dog my way up a 6c. I would like to be able to climb 6c cleanly.
 GridNorth 03 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

IMO getting from 6b+ to 6c should just require a bit of mileage.

Al
1
 Ciro 03 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

No point paying for a coach if that's the limit of your ambition... if you can dog 6c you can climb 6c - just need a projecting mindset and/or enough falling practice.

If you want to move into the 7s, getting a coach to point out your weaknesses and common mistakes will get you there much faster than trial and error.
 douwe 04 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

Definitely worth the money in my opinion. Never did private coaching but did a few group training sessions with a coach. Before I had never really trained for climbing so it did teach me a lot about how to train. And how to structure my sessions to make them effective. It made the difference between just climbing a bit and hoping to get better and being able to recognise certain weaknesses in my climbing and addressing them effectively.
In reply to Ciro:

> No point paying for a coach if that's the limit of your ambition... if you can dog 6c you can climb 6c - just need a projecting mindset and/or enough falling practice.

It's more my hands run out of strength, which could be training or could be poor technique...

> If you want to move into the 7s, getting a coach to point out your weaknesses and common mistakes will get you there much faster than trial and error.

Yes, that would be my ultimate aim.


 Steve nevers 04 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:
I'd say at current grades,not really. You can pick up enough training pointers for strength and footwork online or from other climbers.

Also 1 on 1 coaching would be better than group sessions, for obvious reasons!

I've done masterclass sessions with named climbers before, and all have been basically pointless due to a awful ratio of time/participants.
Although Gresham did give us all a nice hat.
Post edited at 13:30
 JIMBO 04 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:
> It's more my hands run out of strength, which could be training or could be poor technique...

I guess you don't boulder enough...?
In reply to JIMBO:

> I guess you don't boulder enough...?

Usually once a week, and then once a week lead climbing.
 JIMBO 04 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

Not enough then... do more and get stronger, then apply it to the harder climbs.
In reply to JIMBO:

> Not enough then... do more and get stronger, then apply it to the harder climbs.

The trouble is not really having the time, and I still have a feeling better technique could be an alternative to more strength.
 Dandan 04 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

I'd go see a coach at your current level, they can pick up on issues early and set you straight before you get into climbing really hard and potentially injuring yourself.
Prevention is better than cure and all that.

Its true you could pick up a lot of info just watching videos and paying attention to better climbers but I think an unbiased eye watching you climb will pick up on weak spots so much faster, it certainly did for me, I climbed for 10 years before I saw a coach, within five minutes he had completely turned my climbing style on its head!

Go and do it, it's the price of a long physio session and could be of huge benefit, it certainly won't do you any harm.
 douwe 04 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

I think if you can specify what is holding you back you should be able to make up a trainingplan to improve. Going climbing twice a week should be enough IMO.
If you run out of strenght to hold on but are able to hangdog the route it sounds more like an endurance issue than a pure strenght issue. Maybe you fail to utilise the resting positions on the route? Hard to tell without actually seeing you climb.

 JIMBO 04 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

> The trouble is not really having the time, and I still have a feeling better technique could be an alternative to more strength.

Just boulder in both sessions for a while. Work on both strength and technique for a few weeks then go back to routes.
 stp 05 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

> I still have a feeling better technique could be an alternative to more strength

It's not an alternative. The two things go hand in hand and if you need to progress both. Think of them as two sides of the same coin. You can't execute a lock off perfectly if you first don't have the strength to lock off.

If you've got the money then coaching won't do much harm. But bear in mind the vast majority of climbers have never been coached, including some of the best in the world.

For technique there are several alternatives. Bouldering more, especially with better climbers if possible. They may be able to help directly but even just watching them and trying to use what techniques they use. Watching climbing videos of top climbers is also a great way to learn the finer points of technique. There are loads of vids online and I think learning climbing in this non verbal way is a particularly good way to learn climbing movement.

There are also lots of books aimed at 'the self-coached' climber. Dave MacLeod's is a favourite: http://www.davemacleod.com/shop/9outof10climbers.html but there are many others.

Reading, absorbing and putting into practice what your learn from such a book will take you a lot further than a few coaching sessions.

Personally I don't think two sessions per week is enough, particularly because many/most climbers only climb/exercise at a moderate intensity. If you can't do more than two sessions per week then consider doing some supplementary training at home - get a pull up bar, fingerboard etc. For improving technique bouldering is probably better (though it will depend on your wall to some extent and the quality of the routesetting).

For pumpy routes (linking your 6c in one) endurance usually comes pretty quickly if you could do more sessions per week. I'm doubtful one lead session per week will help much - though it depends on how far you've progressed already.

 John Kettle 06 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:
*Disclaimer: As a coach, I am heavily biased!*

I think it's a great idea provided you can identify (and afford) a good coach, and I'd suggest 1:1 is far better than picking up more generic pointers as part of a group session.
Two session a week is plenty for progressing into the 7th grades, IF you can get the quality and intensity right - I even wrote an article about it here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5597

At 6b-c there's definitely lots of further gains available to you from your technical, tactical and psychological approach. While the physical gains will help your performance, time spent focusing on them now may well be time spent further ingraining dodgy movement skills that will hold you back/injure you later.
The shoestring method is to read (and apply the learning from) Dave Macleods' excellent book , and The Self Coached Climber. This takes more time, but is cheaper!
jfdm 06 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:
Springfall,
Like you I thought a coaching session would be great help to me but choosing the right one can be a minefield.
Anybody can set themselves up as a climbing coach.
I have had two sessions with two different coaches.

The first I found online, an associate to one of the UK's big climbing coaches.
The whole session was a waste of money, and left me feeling that I had been had.
I posted about this experience on UKB website as I boulder.
Have a browse on UKB for the same question you have asked.
This was a couple of years ago.

In the mean time I continued to climbing, thinking I was getting better etc.

In August plucked up courage to have a second coaching session with different coach.
This one still expensive but coach works within the GB youth set up.
This was a far better experience, I learned that my technique was iffy.
He used video anyalisis, verbal/written feedback, email contact after session etc.
The difference between the two sessions was massive.

You can read all the books, videos etc, but like me still climb like a penguin.
Having a trained objective eye watch what you are doing will be of more benefit and be more helpful to you immediately.

If you want to get better without coach I would begin to film your climbing/bouldering using phone camera.
Anyalise your movement, are you climbing side on, hips close to rock/wall, pushing through toes, extending legs fully etc.
I'd say technique before, strength, or fingers.

In climbing there are so many variables technique, strength, balance, your movement style, head space, flexibility etc.
The interventions you need will be different from the next person.

So to sum up yes coach is a great idea, go for one either recommended by somebody you know.
Or somebody with good reputation.
The important thing is to keep having fun and enjoy your climbing.

Hope this helps,
Post edited at 21:00
 mrchewy 06 Sep 2016
In reply to jfdm:



> I posted about this experience on UKB website as I boulder.

> Have a browse on UKB for the same question you have asked.

> This was a couple of years ago.


It's well worth searching for and having a read.

I've had a bit of coaching from time to time and have to say, I've learnt good stuff from all of them. They've given me the benefit of their experience and shown how it applies to me individually. I've also been really lucky to climb with some amazing climbers, people who climb in the high 8s and above at times and if I've asked for advice they've been happy to give it.
If I'm honest however - I've learnt the most this past winter, just by climbing lots and listening to what my body is telling me. Actually telling me. I was often surprised at what I learnt and whilst all the coaching was useful and correct, it often sent me off on wild goose chases. My body is my own, doesn't climb like anyone else's and all the reading of instruction books, watching good climbers and decent coaching won't ever help if you don't listen to your body's signals. You're not strong enough? Why? Your body will be telling you, you just have to listen. Maybe your fingers and arms are strong enough and the core is weak - check in with it whilst your climbing.

I learnt more in a day with John Kettle than I had in the four years previously. Lucy Creamer was great too and if you wanna get strong (I thought I needed to) then Alex Fry is a good starting point. I'm sure there are many more who can give you good technique or training advice, these are people I've seen but at the end of the day, it'll be you on the sharp end, up above your gear and only you will be able to deduce what's actually going on.

I think the best advice I can offer is climb more, if you can't then really make those two sessions count and if you still fancy some coaching, maybe have a day with John Kettle.

 Mick Ward 07 Sep 2016
In reply to mrchewy:


> I learnt more in a day with John Kettle than I had in the four years previously...

I suspect this is the core argument for coaches.

Mick
 biscuit 07 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

I'd give another recommendation for John Kettle. He can do all the 'get stronger and fitter' stuff if needed but is a master at technique and tactics.

Is climbing a technique based sport? Yes, hugely.
Can you think of any other technique based sport where people don't have coaching? Tennis, golf, swimming, basketball, cricket, kayakingetc. Nope, neither can I. All these sports start coaching at an early stage. Imagine trying to learn a golf swing from watching a better golfer. You'd get the idea but the subtleties would escape you. These subtleties are what make great golfers/climbers etc look effortless. Learning from others can be great but often leads to copying, which may not be quite right for you or you miss the key aspect of what they are doing. How can you tell the climber you're watching is engaging their core or not, unless you already know what you're looking for?

Adam Peaty could just have got stronger and fitter. However one of the key things he did was change his technique on his dive. He spends hours refining technique yet swimming doesn't even appear technical. Just windmill your arms and kick your legs. Could you watch a swimming race and pick up much from watching it? Can you tell why someone hits a tennis ball as well as Andy Murray and someone else (like me) can't hit a ball unless it's the size of a football? Generally they spend hours and hours refining their skills with a coach.

Obviously they're pro's and us mortals don't need to perform at that level. But all these sports mentioned have coaching for amateurs. Climbing has only recently adopted this approach.

A good coach can distill what makes good climbing movement and tailor it to you.

I coach myself (declaring self interest) but with an academy, not really one to one stuff. I know a lot about climbing movement but still can't often pinpoint my own errors. It's hard to do.

 mattrm 07 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

I would just like to plus one John Kettle. He's not expensive for a short session. Then you can see if you get on and if you're getting your moneys worth. I found the couple of sessions I had with him to be well worth the money. Pointed out some stuff that I'd thought I was good enough at. Nice chap as well, so you'll have fun with the climbing as well.
 Spengler 07 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

For the self study option, the Neil Gresham masterclass videos are worth a watch too if you've not seen them before (or a rewatch if you have!)

Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBCRwO0FN0zMTqSfFW9SMbK2tncTrI25r

Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBCRwO0FN0zPOIjDgeCBMhrLrc69kOYzm

 Bulls Crack 07 Sep 2016
In reply to douwe:

Or read a book in the first instance?
 douwe 08 Sep 2016
In reply to Bulls Crack:

Experiencing first hand how to climb or train the right way or theoretically understanding what to do from reading a book is quite a difference for me at least. It's easier to push through certain boundaries with somebody who knows what they're doing. But I'm sure with the right knowledge from a book you'll be fine too.
 wbo 08 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008: The problem is that the book is not going to act as (hopefully) a critical third party, telling you what you can do to improve, and what you need to change. A book will tell you how to fix that which you know is wrong, but won't tell you what you don't know, or don't want to admit

In reply to springfall2008:

Thanks for all the comments, I think I might give a local coach a try and see what he points out!
 Paul at work 08 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

I'm a coach (and Mountain Training Coaching Provider) that is local to you. I'm happy to meet up and have a chat and see where you are with your climbing.
 elliott92 08 Sep 2016
In reply to springfall2008:

Depends on the coach. I've had 2 previously who were employed and booked through the climbing wall. Advertised as coaches I would say they would be better described as instructors. There is a massive difference between the 2 descriptions. All they really gave me was generic advice. Advice you can get online for a hell of a lot cheaper.
Then I got in contact with a proper performance coach. What he has shown me has been pretty revolutionary. He observed, filmed and studied the way I climb. Pinpointed my strengths and weaknesses (the easy bit) and gave very very detailed instruction in how and why to adjust my style, in a way that works "my style". Has told me how to structure my sessions to rewrite my natural habits and how to also gain physically while doing so.
The big problem I think is that it is not a cheap option and if you expect to see gains from 1, 2 or even several sessions then you will be wrong. You have to invest the money (and a lot of time) if you want proper results from a coach. If you just want an analysis on your weaknesses and a programme to stick to help make physical gains then 1 or 2 sessions will do. If you want to take it further then you have to find the right coach and invest. P.s for what's t worth.. I feel every penny I spent has been well spent so far. Hope that helps. Elliott

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