UKC

Grooved Arête (HVD 4a)

Is scratching directions on Grooved arête basically considered fair game now?

Noticed that some moron left an arrow and the words "Jon, this way" on the ledge just before the knights move pitch (or something to that effect, I meant to take a photo but forgot when my partner arrived). Was aware of the two "GA" markings but this looks fresh.

Surely by that point it on the route it would be impossible to get lost unless you're particularly thick.

In reply to JHiley:

No, it's NOT fair game - it's vandalism.

If Jon's mate happens to read this thread I hope he/she will feel thoroughly ashamed

In reply to JHiley:
I've been climbing for over 40 years now, and it saddens me to see the level some climbers have descended to
regarding the protection of, and ethics on crags. Chipping, scrawling, gardening etc. are becoming the norm.
Without etiquette guidance it will only get worse.

The 'GA' has been there for many years and is one of the first bits of crag graffiti I ever saw.

In reply to brianjcooper:
Do you really think it's getting worse? As you say the original scratches have been there a long time. Likewise I can think of very few chipping incidents/accusations in recent times (other than the odd isolated incident that seems more akin to vandalism than a erosion of ethics). In fact to say chipping is becoming the norm is absolute rubbish

In reply to Tyler:

Sadly yes. Last year I was told to F'ck off! when telling a group, with climbing gear, that a BBQ under a Stanage buttress was not a good idea. Maybe the 'chipping' comment was a bit strong though, but I've seen it.

In reply to brianjcooper:

>...... that a BBQ under a Stanage buttress was not a good idea.

Really?
Watch the start of this film ... http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/sheffield-climbers

In reply to Tyler:

Totally agree. People generally use glue these days. And to be fair most newly developed crags generally need it just to have something solid to pull on (thinking limestone here).

In reply to brianjcooper:


Maybe you were told to f*ck off as there is nothing wrong with having a BBQ (assuming its off the grass)?

In reply to ianstevens:
Nothing wrong with a BBQ that's billowing smoke for all wardens and farmers to see on tinder dry moorland?
Funny thing. All the climbers nearby agreed with me. Never mind, when our access is stopped we can really bitch.

In reply to brianjcooper:

It's dedication carrying it all, up there. I'm constantly amazed at th beer bottles and cans in remote places. The youth of today know no boundaries.
Doesn't moorland do well with an occasional fire?

Common sense only makes sense if you know better. Thankfully most know better.

In reply to JHiley:

We often use BBQ trays on the crags. As long as you have a stone slab to put them on they are safe and usually keep the midges down as well. I don't see a problem as long as you leave no trace.

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

You have got to be joking!
A smelly, smokey bbq!
I really need that blowing all over me.
I'm guessing you'll be sitting upwind of it?
I'll tell you what-
If you sit so it's blowing right into your face I'll accept that it's O.K.
If not then have some respect and leave the thing at home!

In reply to JHiley:

I have to say the other day when I was at stanage there were a few different bbq's going on and aside from suddenly making me hungry while on the crux of my route I have to say it is at odds with my personal view of climbing mainly because it detracts from the adventure and escapism I associate with climbing, but if they are leaving no trace its up to them I suppose, I'll just find somewhere else to climb.

In reply to Jackspratt:

Stanage is hardly the place for escapism these days!

In reply to Jackspratt:

I've climbed at Stanage thousands of times over the years, and have seen some sights there, but fortunately never a bbq

In reply to Goucho:


Should keep midges at bay mind

In reply to baron:

Thats sounding like sausage envy to me.

In reply to brianjcooper:


Shocking behavior and a damning indictment of the irresponsibility of the younger generation of climbers. They should stick to dropping acid and then trying to hit 100mph down the Pass in a Bedford van like in the old days.

In reply to JHiley:

Well, it is called Grooved Arete

In reply to Bulls Crack:


Hasn't Madonna climbed it? "Get into the groove for you've got to prove....

In reply to brianjcooper:


Put it on a rock. Easy. I've heard there are some about?

In reply to Lusk:

Thanks for the link Lusk,

There's some great old film on the Yorkshire Film Archive

In reply to ianstevens:
Stanage is on private estate land and we only have access to it if we adhere to the owner's conditions and good will.

In reply to brianjcooper:

I can't say I've ever come across any climbers with a bbq at the crag. If it doesn't leave a mess I doubt I'd be too annoyed by it although I suppose the fire risk makes it a bit irresponsible. I've seen a lot of used ones lying around but generally assumed this was from non-climbers. Drones, shitting in the descent gullys, littering and reserving routes for ages with ropes etc are all worse IMO and much more common at Stanage.

Regarding the new scratches on Grooved arête, I'm aware that the old GA markings were there for a long time. My worry is that the existence of the old makings made someone feel that scratching a direct message to his incompetent mate was just fine. The more this stuff appears the more people will think its ok to add their own.

In reply to brianjcooper:


Stange is on CRoW land

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

True. But only if we respect it. Climbed at Brassington recently? I wonder why not?

In reply to brianjcooper:

I think a bbq and a beer is ok. I wouldn't light one directly at the crag base but I don't see the problem with a post climb bbq when its quiet. I've had several at millstone. The disposable ones don't send off embers that are going to start a fire. As long as you take everything away with you and use a rock to keep it off the grass what's the problem?

In reply to Somerset swede basher:
I would to agree with you, except at times of serious fire risk (all but the grimmest summers have at least a few days, sometimes weeks when it would be a *really* bad idea).

I must admit though, my first reaction to seeing a disposable bbq out in the Peak does tend to be one of hostility and suspicion just because so many of the damned things seem to get left lying around it's hard not to immediately assume that the folk using them are the sort of dickheads who'll leave a load of litter behind when they're gone.

In reply to brianjcooper:


Not since 2011. And the reason is that I've climbed most of the routes there that aren't currently buried by vegetation. Not sure what that's got to do with CRoW though, they're not on access land (and in any case I've never been turned away)

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


But does CRoW cover climbing? I'm not sure it does, and I can't seem to find any useful guidance on the BMC website.

In reply to captain paranoia:

Yes.