UKC

This is a stupid idea- B3 boots

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 ShortLock 11 Sep 2016
So in a fit of boredom I've found a couple of options for hilariously cheap B3 boots. I can't post a link without UKC thinking I'm trying to sell them, but if I told you to search eBay for French Military Extreme Winter Boots Leather, you'd get the idea. They're claimed to be B3, have Vibram soles, with a recommended lower temperature of -15oC (and look like double boots!!).

My question is, could I climb in those, bearing in mind I'm just starting out, or is buying them a stupid idea, meaning I need to splash out on La Sportivas or whatever else?

Conversely, as I'm unlikely to be able to afford B3s from a reputable source, how far can I push my current B1s (Salewa Rapaces) before they become the limiting factor, rather than my own incompetence?
 TobyA 11 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

You would need strap on crampons obviously but I imagine they would work if they fit OK. Loads of my mates ages ago started out with ex-army winter boots (I think German) that you used to be able to buy easily. They were Lowa plastic boots, basically just a black version of the civvy ones. Oddly, although I was living in Finland back then, these Finnish climbers were all buying them from some army surplus place in North Wales - they used to advertise in the mags back then. Someone else might know if that shop is still about - maybe they still have them! Otherwise, keep an eye out for second hand ones on here or elsewhere (there's the outdoor gear exchange on Facebook for example).

I'd take claims to temperature ratings of boots with a pinch of salt - it will depend on loads of different things.
 tistimetogo 11 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

I've a pair of scarpa omegas I'd give away for £50. Used but in decent nick. Think size is 9 but might be 8.5. Interested?
OP ShortLock 11 Sep 2016
In reply to TobyA:

Good advice, thanks. You mention strap on crampons- is that because of the lack of welts on the boots I've mentioned?

@tistimetogo - I'll send a PM now.
OP ShortLock 11 Sep 2016
In reply to tistimetogo:

Your profile doesn't allow emails- but I am interested.
 mrphilipoldham 11 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

What are you hoping to climb in them? A mate managed to follow me up a Lakes grade II last winter in B1s no problem.. even front pointing up the final gully! Not sure he'd have been happy on the grade III in them though (borrowed my spare B2s).
 Andy Hardy 11 Sep 2016
In reply to TobyA:

http://www.denbigharmysurplus.co.uk

Can get koflach boots for £50 and lowa ones for £135.
No idea how knackered they are
OP ShortLock 11 Sep 2016
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Thanks Andy, that's a useful link.

I'd initially be trying Grade Is and IIs, but I'd love to push that and I'm hoping to get out a fair bit this winter.

Is it just me, or do the boots in links posted look markedly bulkier and presumably heavier than common market B3s? If so, is this enough to make climbing in them actively harder?
 Andy Hardy 12 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

The ex army boots aren't going to be as good as a brand new pair of specialist boots. But they'll be fine for grades 1 - 2 *if* they fit your feet. Your best bet would be to call in on a climbing trip to Wales and try a pair for size.
 blurty 12 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

I bet quite a few people on here have an old pair of plastics in the cupboard they'd let you have for the postage - what size do you need?
OP ShortLock 12 Sep 2016
In reply to blurty:

I'm a UK size 9- if anybody is feeling so generous. I'd be happy to pay postage and a donation to a charity of choice seems to be the usual drill.

If clompy plastics could only get me up grade Is and IIs there's not much point upgrading from my B1s, however. Surely I'd be able to push a bit harder than that in them?
 TobyA 12 Sep 2016
 john_mx 12 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

I use the scrpa omega boots and I've have no trouble with them, amazing boot in my opinion
 TobyA 13 Sep 2016
 Billhook 13 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

I used Koflach plastic boots and they were excellent. You could and many did climb the hardest grades with them.
 Billhook 13 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

Those boots will get you up anything but as others have said you'd need strap on crampons which are a bit of a fag. But.......

My only comment would be that they may well be overkill for Scotland!! given they were used by Alpine troops for winter work in the mountains. And being pure leather they just might be a tad difficult on your feet until you break them in, so as someone else has said - try them on 1st if you can.
OP ShortLock 13 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

Thanks for all the answers everyone, I'm sorry I can't reply individually.

The Lowa plastic boots from Denbigh say they'll take a step in crampon- is that the same as a fully automatic C3? In which case I wouldn't need a strap in crampon?

I have a feeling the crampon may be the real cost here.
 humptydumpty 13 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:
Not sure how cheap your cheap plastic boots are or what your budget is, but I got some 2nd hand sportiva nepals (B3) off here for 100 quid. They were definitely used, but have done me for over a month of ice and alpine climbing so far. They're comfortable and fit well; if you're feeling cheeky you could go into your local Cotswolds/whatever and try some on for size.


> I have a feeling the crampon may be the real cost here.

I'd recommend a pair of these, but I'm no expert
Post edited at 18:03
 alasdair19 13 Sep 2016
In reply to humptydumpty:

if anyone has feet a touch bigger than mine I have a pair of barely used b3 acu GTX something or other. goretex lined, carbon midsole size 47. come try them on in Sheffield!
 TobyA 13 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

I've got some old Grivel 2Fs that still work ok. You might want to sharpen them a bit if you are doing water ice, but for kicking around the UK mountains, up to like III they'd be alright. You can put in some little bolts and make them rigid, then they work quite well on harder mixed.

Yours for 15 quid plus whatever it costs to post them if you are interested. Meant to sell them a few years ago and never got round to it, so some pics here: http://bitsandbobsandoddsandsods.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/grivel-2fs.html They would get you started anyway.
1
OP ShortLock 13 Sep 2016
In reply to TobyA:

Looks good- PM sent.
 alasdair19 13 Sep 2016
In reply to TobyA:

if he doesn't take them I'll have them the world's best telemark compatible binding!
OP ShortLock 13 Sep 2016
In reply to alasdair19:

Back off- I saw them first

Gone I'm afraid.
 alasdair19 14 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

if they don't fit great let me know I have an excellent collection of well loved crampons to swap them for!
 rogersavery 14 Sep 2016
In reply to ShortLock:

Be wary of buying 2nd hand plastic boots

All things plastic are maufactored using a hardener that will continue to harden forever, causing the plastic to become brittle - I had my little used scarpa plastics sat in a cupboard for 10 years - took them out for a winter walk on kinder and they had snapped by the time I got to Jacobs ladder
OP ShortLock 14 Sep 2016
In reply to rogersavery:
Thanks for the warning! It's been mentioned a couple of times (note terrifying picture posted by TobyA above) but good to have it reiterated.

I'm currently in contact with Tenbigh Army Surplus and I can't recommend them enough. They've dealt with all of my annoying questions patiently (re: age of boots, crampon compatibility, condition, use), hunted through their stock to find an otherwise sold out item and the employee I'm speaking to is a climber himself.

I can't imagine many people on here have any need of army surplus, but if you're looking for cheap B3s I'd recommend them happily.
Post edited at 16:26
 TobyA 14 Sep 2016
In reply to alasdair19 and Orange:

Orange - you might be able to do a good deal there with Alasdair. Like I said I've used the 2Fs loads in Scotland and Wales but because they are cookie cutter design, they can ball up in warmer conditions - a bit more than the standard design. I know why Alasdair is interested in them - I telemark too and they fit my tele boots - so although we got a deal and I'm still very happy to sell them to you, if Alasdair has some classic 12 point crampons he was willing to swap for the 2Fs you should consider it!

I'll go and try and find them in attic now and I'll email you later.

OP ShortLock 14 Sep 2016
In reply to TobyA and alasdair19:

I've had to look up what telemark is, but armed with Wikipedia I think I understand the situation.

At the end of the day I'm just after cheap C3s, it would be selfish to take a pair with a unique other use I'll never need, as it seems to me.

Alasdair- if you've got a pair of C3s that would suit me just as well, I see no reason not to implement some kind of bizarre crampon-swap triangle.


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