UKC

I have been looking to buy a few extra cams to go with a couple i was given, i have been looking at the DMM 4cu are these a good cam or is it worth paying a little more for the demon also i don't want to duplicate the sizes i have already got so is there anyway i can compare sizes

The cams i have got are older ones i have a HB wales 1 1/2 or 35mm edge to edge of flat end of the wheels and i have a wild country no number on it but 70mm edge to edge of the flat end of the wheels
Does anyone know what size DMM 4cu cams these would be
Thanks

In reply to LJJ77:

http://www.rockrun.com/wp/cam-size-comparison-chart/
Try that for your size comparisons. The old HB cam if it's double stemmed will be functionally very close to the 4CUs which you are looking at buying. I think that both the 4CUs and dragons are good cams (dragons slightly better due to expanded range), however I've not used Demons before so can't comment on that front.

In reply to LJJ77:

If you look on here and click on the different cam types there are charts at the bottom of each page giving the sizes of each cam.
http://www.needlesports.com/2597/cams.aspx

As far as know the HB cams were basically the same size as the old Wild Country Technical Friends which are also very similar in size to 4CU's and Demons (but you'll have to look at the charts yourself to confirm that), though 4CU's and Demons use the same head so they are the same as each other.

The more recent WC Helium cams were a bit different from the Tech Friends but were horrible hence they've stopped making them so soon after introducing them.
Personally I don't like the trigger bars on 4CU's and prefer the Demons but that may be just me. 4CU's are £10 cheaper but I'd pay the extra.

DMM Dragons seem to be the most highly rated cams with British climbers these days with twin axles giving a much wider size range for each unit but they are another £16 again. The new Wild Country Friends have gone over to twin axles as well now and are a similar price to the Dragons but personally I don't like the thumb loop on them.

In reply to LJJ77:

All the 4CU size information is on the DMM product spec page: http://dmmclimbing.com/products/4cus/

In reply to LJJ77:

4cu's are lovely cams. The head is the same as the demon. Imo not worth paying extra for the demon.

In reply to LJJ77:
Personally I'd go for the dragons as they are a bit nicer being lighter for their expansion range and too wide head width. I personally like the trigger system and thumb press / sling. Camalots are another option at a similar price. Or if you want to pay bucks many consider the totem cams the best of the best now. Bare in mind cams should last you a decade so 10 pounds more for a cam is only 1 pound per year!

The 4CU's are quite nice although the U stem design is a bit old hat now. Its not as good if the stem can't be aligned to the direction of fall (think short vertical cracks etc) as it only bends well in one direction. The other issue is that the cams tend to not operate as well independently. You can try this your self on your quadcams (I've owned all the cams talked about so far). Depress all the lobes with your fingers and release two opposing lobes on one side of the stem, you'll likely see they don't open very well. This can happen on most the U stem cams I've seen, including older 4CU's. I also think the unprotected stems tend to be a bit more prone to kinking and rendering the cam useless, I have seen this although not on my own cams.

Personally I'd take the demons over the 4CU's if you decide not to go for the dragons as they are only marginally more expensive and I think the single stem design has advantages. That said the head width is pretty large on the demons.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Thanks for all the advice guys it has me leaning towards the Demons i would love to spend the extra for the Dragons but considering i have had to buy an entire rack from scratch the last couple of months (and hiding the credit card statement from the wife) they might be the best choice

Another question does the range mentioned in the size comparison means from fully closed to fully open
Thanks again

In reply to LJJ77:

the best way to judge which size you need in my experience is to go in to a shop with your quadcams.

In reply to LJJ77:

I think the ranges given are usually what the manufacturer considers possible and might not correspond to the exact sized placements you'd want to use them in ideally. If you'd like to compare more brands then here's yet another chart:
http://dmca.pythonanywhere.com/cams/

Data comes from needle sports or the manufacturers themselves (I didn't include DMM demon cams since the sizes are the same as 4CUs) but comparing them in person is ideal if you can. I prefer single stems over 4CUs and thumb loops to dragon/demon heads but own a mixture of everything and will happily use whatever.