UKC

Alfie Jamieson shares his experience of climbing and campervanning in Fontainebleau.

Organising a recent trip to Fontainebleau in a motorhome, I had two things in mind: climb as much as physically possible and do it whilst staying within our tight budget. Climbing a lot in Fontainebleau was easy, but we did find it difficult to plan certainties for our campervan experience. There was little accessible information to be found and the majority of it was pessimistic that our chosen form of transport and accommodation could be done 'on the cheap' or without the use of a campsite.

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In reply to UKC Articles:

Very useful!

We stayed on campsites in my van (which is below 2.2m) while in Font. It was the only time we paid for sites on a 16 day trip round Europe, but I'd heard that it was not worth the risk.

Does the 2.2m height rule just apply to the car park at the west side of Les Trois Pignons or all car parks managed by the Fontainebleau forestry commission?

In reply to UKC Articles:

I don't know if the ones in the article are listed but this is an excellent resource

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorhome-Camperstop-Europe-countr-facile/dp/90760...

In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Looks perfect. It's on the wishlist to buy before the next trip. Cheers!

In reply to UKC Articles:

If the author of the article drops by, I'd be glad if they could tell me where this 2.2 height limit comes from as I've never heard of it? I appreciate it can be tricky to know what is or is not allowed, but the only thing I've found on the ONF website is that "wild camping in a tent, a vehicle or any other type of shelter is forbidden throughout the forest, except for those areas that serve this purpose" ( http://www.onf.fr/enforet/fontainebleau/explorer/recommandations/20120521-1... ).

A few months ago I met one of the rangers who works at the Noisy-sur-École station, and he was pretty annoyed at all the cars, caravans and campervans there and having to tell people to shut up at 11pm. Many of those who work for the ONF love their job but have to work extra hours because the institution is in financial disarray, so if you still decide to stay at carparks have the decency to be really quiet and respect both others and the forest.

Also it should be noted that some carparks are now closed at night (Cuvier, Rocher Saint Germain, Franchard Ermitage, Apremont south and a few others) as of the end of August.

In reply to UKC Articles:

From my experience, what the Rangers don't like is all the peripheral junk that is associated with campers. So your lovely washing line hung up, dinner table etc are all no-goes. The reason they don't move on 'stealth campers' is because they are just that, stealthy and look like a parked car/ van. they would move you on if you strung your washing up.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Parking up in font! Totally uncool. Think about it, what sort of contribution does a parked up van, burying it's poo make to such wonderful place.

I think this article should be removed.

I recommend the campsite at Boulancourt,

In reply to Adrien:


http://www.onf.fr/enforet/fontainebleau/++oid++55d6/++conf++1740428656/@@di...

135 Euro Fine

So you can afford a to buy a camper van, to take it on the ferry, to drive it all round Europe, but you can't afford campsite fees. I agree with previous, uncool and unnecessary. Fine in a layby, but not in parking areas in Font.

In reply to UKC Articles:

A rather misguided article. By advertising that you got away with it you will have closed the loopholes for your next visit. Article leads to further misuse then the authorities clamp down.

Some things are best kept quiet.

In reply to 3leggeddog:

Did we read the same article?

He's not said he got away with anything (once he worked out what was tolerated), he has just given his experience of what it was like finding-out what was tolerated and what formal facilities he found that were available (eg at Milly La Foret).

If anything, it will help others not make the same initial mistakes with a van.

In reply to Hugh Cottam:

Camp site fees with a van are not insubstantial, will add up to a lot on a long trip.

To be honest the article is better than I expected in that it seems the author does end up respecting the rules, even though he's tried finding a loophole before that. I'm still doubtful about this 2.2m height restriction but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

And that's coming from a local who gets pissed on a daily basis about how the forest is mistreated in various ways

In reply to ChrisJD:

This particular argument is rubbish, who's to decide what one pays for or not? Buying a van doesn't entitle you to not paying for anything ever again. And as has been said, there's FREE, legal bivouac areas in the forest; the ones in Bois-le-Roi and Bourron-Marlotte (Grande Vallée) both have running water, and the second one even has toilets.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Why is this an article on UKC ffs?

This guy does absolutely no research on acceptable practices for vans and motorhomes in Fontainebleau, clearly hasn't done a search on the forums here or on UKB, or even Googled 'free camping Fontainebleau'. Muppet.

The authorities in font are closing more and more of the car parks in the forest due to chumps like this taking the piss.

In reply to Adrien:

What argument is rubbish? Just stating a fact that camp site fees are substantial and not trivial.

I think the article is not bad either, in so much as I'm sure there are many vanners who go unprepared as to knowing what is and is not tolerated/acceptable at Font and what services are available for free e.g. like the camping aire at Milly La Foret:

http://en.airecampingcar.com/aire_camping_car_gps.php/4561-Milly%20La%20For...

In reply to UKC Articles:

Not a great article in my opinion.

I don't think the 2.2m thing is true but may be what the rangers apply - they could easily change their minds and kick out anyone staying in the parking.

Car parks have already closed because of the people staying in the parking (Cuisinière). I don't think it's great that this article encourages the activity.

The information that he does gather isn't even complete - did even go and check out the spots at Barbizon, Bois le Roi, hippodrome and Bourron Marlotte? The one in Barbizon is right in the village I'm not sure they'd appreciate people rocking up and setting up slack-lines there. Hippodrome is on a horse racing track!

In reply to highrepute:


Adrien (a local) has confirmed in this thread that these two are "free, legal bivouac areas in the forest"

In reply to ChrisJD:

I'm not sure about the other two though. I've searched for "bivouac hippodrome fontainebleau" and the only "reliable" source I've found is a recent post by long-time bleausard François Louvel on a wikipedia discussion mentioning this bivouac area, all the other entries I've found date back to at least 2010, so I don't know.

I'm much more doubtful about Barbizon gladly welcoming vans! Again I'd be happy if the author could point me to a reliable source about this; Barbizon is the wealthiest municipality in the entire Seine-et-Marne département so I don't see its inhabitants or representatives being very fond of dirtbags

In reply to Adrien:


It's worth re-reading the context in which he mentioned this one.

In reply to UKC Articles:

i think this article is bollocks as well. I've been to Font regularly over the last twenty years and seen many changes; including the closure of the free bivouac at Cuvier, closed because of rubbish, noise shitting in the woods etc, at least this is what I was told, it didn't impact on the last night party however. I've seen car parks shut and I've seen so much bad practice its unbelievable, prolific chalk, crowds and lots of shitting in the woods.

It's not a given right that access will be forever, its dependent on the users. If I'm in a van I will stay at the remaining free bivouac spots, as stated Bouron and Hippodrome north of Fontainebleau. They are free, one has water and a toilet, just stay there! why risk it, whats to be gained by not staying there?

If you do stay at Bouron, use the toliet FFs and don't wander of in the woods with a toilet roll, I've seen this so often as well. I expect a complete shutdown at some point if people keep abusing the forest. Its easy to have a cheap trip there, why be so arrogant, stay at a campsite, gite or free bivouac...when you travel you have to be cool!

In reply to UKC Articles:

I do not like the message that is transported here. I believe that the author did respect the enverinmont, and in doing so it should not be a problem.

However, I could see many people staying in there Vans this spring on less problematic and more problematic parking spots. As always you will find people who disrespect the whole forest -- although I hope that they simply did not know better. Just to give some examples: People were putting up there tents at Isatis for multiple days, other were partying there until midnight and kept the volume very loud; all parking lots at Trois Pignons were occupied by many climbers keeping it cheap, despite all signs which obviously state that it is forbidden.

Long story short: I was really wondering how tolerant the locals are there; in Austria such behaviour would most definitly lead to closure of the climbing areas. Therefore I would never reccomend any form of wild camping in Bleau!

True, you can stay at the oficial sites, but then I am afraid that some climbers are motivated by this article to try sleeping somewhere else...

In reply to UKC Articles:

Uncool - about as uncool as you can get! If you really are that hard up, fit half a dozen of you into a room at the Formula 1. Might cheat the corporate folks out of a few quid, but won't damage the environment or put the access for the rest of to the crags at risk.

There is a thread on here about human impact on our environment - the retreating glaciers. Spot the connection?!!

Ooh look at me.... Prisoners at the gates of dawn....... In my mobile home!!!! Come on! This isn't the outback! This is a few miles from a major European capital; a delicate area environmentally, enjoyed by millions of us. You can afford the ferry, the van, the insurance, the diesel........just cough up a few quid, and help us all, and the local economy.

In reply to andy w bloc:

I'm confused.

The article (by the end) reaches the same conclusions as you about where to stay, yet you think it's bolx?

Plus, Adrian (a local) wasn't convinced (see 16:51 Thurs) about the Hippodrome as a free bivouac spot.


And I expect the motor-home shown in the Article has a toilet, so no need for the woods.

In reply to ChrisJD:

well maybe, but he calls the bivouacs 'car parks', which they are blatantly not, did he even stay at them? and I wasn;t saying they shat in the woods, just that many do. My gripe is whats the point of the article, if you got to Font, get a gite, camp at a site or use the free bivouac, what else is their to say. Flaunting and stretching whats permitted in a sensitive and heavily used environment is just stupid and for UKC to publish an article like this is also stupid. The end result will be further restrictions or worse.

In reply to ChrisJD:

Hippodrome was open last year

In reply to andy w bloc:


But that wasn't the conclusion and recommendations of the article at the end. They ended up staying at the free Milly camping Aire.

In reply to ChrisJD:

so in a longwinded article they describe how they tried getting away with it failed and ended up in a car park in Milly. A quick google or post on UKB before going would have pointed them to the bivouac sites, which they don't seem to have used.

In reply to andy w bloc:

Did you actually read it, or did you just want to have a rant about the state of Font?

(the latter is fine).

In reply to ChrisJD:

I sort of read it...so whats it's about then, they go to Font, try to camp for free in a sensitive area, get caught, go somewhere else, fail to use the free bivouacs, write an article, UKC publishes it.

A bit of research would have meant they could have avoided all the above issues and we wouldn't have had to read or half read an article about it.

Would UKC climbing publish a similar article about someone trying to park up for free in the Peak?

In reply to andy w bloc:


So can we re-start this after you've actually read it?

In reply to ChrisJD:

jesus i read the stuff about camping, but not climbing, can you not understand my point?

In reply to UKC Articles:

Hi guys, author of the article here.

With regards to the barriers there are some car parks that do not have the restrictions on them in Font. However, in the larger car parks (like Noisy sur Ecole) they do exist and the ranger that confronted us told us that we exceeded that limit and therefore could not be where we were (which was in a car park that did not have these restrictions).

Unfortunately I can only speak from experience with the car park in barbizon, we stayed for two nights and also met three others doing the same thing. We were all very quiet and respectful and as far as we and these vans could see it was permitted.

Apologies to anyone who didn't gain anything from the article, it was written with good intentions and I understand people's points of view. As a group we tried very hard to respect our environment and to not make any locals angry.

In reply to alfiejameson:
'There was little accessible information to be found and the majority of it was pessimistic that our chosen form of transport and accommodation could be done 'on the cheap' or without the use of a campsite'.

So did you stay at the free bivouac sites? A bit of research, ie opening the 7+8 guidebook for example or a post on UKB and you could have done your trip as you desired.

Thinking about it though, maybe the bivouacs have height barriers, if so apologies.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Nice review of what is acceptable and where to find place to stay with a camper at Fontainebleau forest. The mind is, no stay during the night inside the forest, that can included car parks. And figure out you shouldn't be noisy whenever and whatever you a doing.

Nevertheless, as it's already mentionned here, there are few camp areas (aire de Camping) around the Forest, free, where one can tents or puts a camper and with facilities such as toilet. For example one on the south, close to the city of Bourron Marlotte, 10 minutes walking the 'Restant du long rocher' climbing site.

I noticed, in the first photo, the 3 towels that are drying to the side of 'sheila' camper van : blue, white and red. Looks very like the french flag ! Is this mean the authors are sending a message in order to migrate to France ?