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For me, it has to be Space Below my feet by Gwen Moffat.
Simply delightful.
If you haven't read it, get your hands on a copy.
Post edited at 21:20
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I think Fiva, from Gordon Stainforth of this parish, is hard to beat. The sense of actually being present was intense, and the tension overwhelming, despite obviously knowing the outcome.
Conquistadors of the useless was fascinating, especially the passages about his time during the war.
Tom patey's book is good reading too
I think Fiva, from Gordon Stainforth of this parish, is hard to beat. The sense of actually being present was intense, and the tension overwhelming, despite obviously knowing the outcome.
Conquistadors of the useless was fascinating, especially the passages about his time during the war.
Tom patey's book is good reading too
3
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Best one ever? Difficult. Well, personally for me in my late teens, Savage Arena is up there. But for sheer pleasure when I was about fifteen, it would have to be be John Barry's the Great Climbing Adventure.
Best one ever? Difficult. Well, personally for me in my late teens, Savage Arena is up there. But for sheer pleasure when I was about fifteen, it would have to be be John Barry's the Great Climbing Adventure.
1
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
My first response to this was to review the possibles and I began to realise that they are all so different.
So I am going with the book that I regularly dip into for a refreshment of inspiration albeit a compendium volume.
'Games Climbers Play' is a fantastic collection of the some of the best climbing writing up to that time.
It is worth it just for the two introductory chapters - the touchstone philosopy of Lito Tejada-Flores that created a framework for understanding the climbing games and the deep introspection of Ed Drummonds epic on Trolltind. Two hugely different pieces but both capturing the essence of climbing literature.
This is my desert island book.
My first response to this was to review the possibles and I began to realise that they are all so different.
So I am going with the book that I regularly dip into for a refreshment of inspiration albeit a compendium volume.
'Games Climbers Play' is a fantastic collection of the some of the best climbing writing up to that time.
It is worth it just for the two introductory chapters - the touchstone philosopy of Lito Tejada-Flores that created a framework for understanding the climbing games and the deep introspection of Ed Drummonds epic on Trolltind. Two hugely different pieces but both capturing the essence of climbing literature.
This is my desert island book.
Post edited at 22:02
3
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Feeding The Rat by Al Alvarez, Fiva's probably second to that in my ratings.
Feeding The Rat by Al Alvarez, Fiva's probably second to that in my ratings.
1
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Probably the two that I have enjoyed the most have been Deep Play by Paul Pritchard and Feeding The Rat by Al Alvarez.
Probably the two that I have enjoyed the most have been Deep Play by Paul Pritchard and Feeding The Rat by Al Alvarez.
Post edited at 23:01
5
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Fiva is definitely the best of climbing books that I have read in the last few years.
Fiva is definitely the best of climbing books that I have read in the last few years.
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Yep, I thought FIVA was outstanding.
Total Alpinism by Rene Desmaison gets my vote. If FIVA and/or Touching the Void floats your boat, track a copy down. An essential book for any mountaineering library.
There are so many great climbing books.
> I think Fiva, from Gordon Stainforth of this parish, is hard to beat. The sense of actually being present was intense, and the tension overwhelming, despite obviously knowing the outcome.
Yep, I thought FIVA was outstanding.
Total Alpinism by Rene Desmaison gets my vote. If FIVA and/or Touching the Void floats your boat, track a copy down. An essential book for any mountaineering library.
There are so many great climbing books.
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I guess for me it was Stephen Venables account of climbing the kangsung face on Everest. Picked it up one day while browsing on the high street and was blown away by the whole idea of mountaineering.
within weeks id bought hillwalking gear and within a couple of years had been to the alps and the Himalayas.
its funny how a chance thing like that can change your life.
I was never into hero's of any kind as a kid and all of a sudden reading about climbers scaling high mountain peaks had me buzzing.
I guess for me it was Stephen Venables account of climbing the kangsung face on Everest. Picked it up one day while browsing on the high street and was blown away by the whole idea of mountaineering.
within weeks id bought hillwalking gear and within a couple of years had been to the alps and the Himalayas.
its funny how a chance thing like that can change your life.
I was never into hero's of any kind as a kid and all of a sudden reading about climbers scaling high mountain peaks had me buzzing.
6
1
In reply to The New NickB:
Those two for me too.
> Probably the two that I have enjoyed the most have been Deep Play by Paul Pritchard and Feeding The Rat by Al Alverez.
Those two for me too.
1
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I've not read that many, but I really enjoyed The Villain.
I've not read that many, but I really enjoyed The Villain.
Post edited at 22:56
2
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Ah, Touching the Void for me. Possibly slightly perverse that it's the story made me want to climb, but I've never been so captivated, (and I'm sure Joe would understand given that it was the story of Tony Kurz that apparently made him want to climb)
Ah, Touching the Void for me. Possibly slightly perverse that it's the story made me want to climb, but I've never been so captivated, (and I'm sure Joe would understand given that it was the story of Tony Kurz that apparently made him want to climb)
2
1
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Freedom Climbers by Bernadette MacDonald is extremely interesting, and fairly comprehensive in examining the Polish Himalayan mountaineering scene of the 1980s, and the political backdrop too (although I thought her biography of Tomasz Humar was not very good).
I also very much enjoyed Ghosts of Everest, the first mountaineering book I read, and which led to a very full bookshelf a number of years later! About Mallory and Irvine, it gives a good summary of the evidence for and against them having summited Everest. Fascinating.
Freedom Climbers by Bernadette MacDonald is extremely interesting, and fairly comprehensive in examining the Polish Himalayan mountaineering scene of the 1980s, and the political backdrop too (although I thought her biography of Tomasz Humar was not very good).
I also very much enjoyed Ghosts of Everest, the first mountaineering book I read, and which led to a very full bookshelf a number of years later! About Mallory and Irvine, it gives a good summary of the evidence for and against them having summited Everest. Fascinating.
1
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
If Ihad to pick out one that stood out as "first among equals" I would choose Learning to Breathe by Andy Cave. The description of working down a pit was vivid.
If Ihad to pick out one that stood out as "first among equals" I would choose Learning to Breathe by Andy Cave. The description of working down a pit was vivid.
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1
In reply to pebbles:
Utter banal tripe........ probably the most overrated book I've ever read.
I'd go for Scrambles Amongst the Alps, Total Alpinism or The Mountain of my Fear.
> The Ascent of Rum Doodle. harrowing, and yet inspiring.
Utter banal tripe........ probably the most overrated book I've ever read.
I'd go for Scrambles Amongst the Alps, Total Alpinism or The Mountain of my Fear.
3
13
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
The Climb up to Hell by Jack Olsen is a great antidote to Harrer's White Spider. A must read really, to gain some balance.
Corti was a competent alpinist. There, but for the grace of God went Harrer.
It's nail biting, and a much better read than White Spider, though I would recommend, if you have not, read White Spider first.
The Climb up to Hell by Jack Olsen is a great antidote to Harrer's White Spider. A must read really, to gain some balance.
Corti was a competent alpinist. There, but for the grace of God went Harrer.
It's nail biting, and a much better read than White Spider, though I would recommend, if you have not, read White Spider first.
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Another vote for Paul Pritchard's Deep Play. And for a stylistic beauty and spiritual power rarely attained in sporting literature, W H Murray's Mountaineering in Scotland and Undiscovered Scotland.
Another vote for Paul Pritchard's Deep Play. And for a stylistic beauty and spiritual power rarely attained in sporting literature, W H Murray's Mountaineering in Scotland and Undiscovered Scotland.
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1
In reply to birdie num num:
Similarly, try reading Messner's and Habeler's accounts of their Everest expedition. Habeler's is MUCH better.
CB
Similarly, try reading Messner's and Habeler's accounts of their Everest expedition. Habeler's is MUCH better.
CB
1
In reply to birdie num num:
My Life
By Anderl Heckmair gives a very interesting contrast too.
And an insight into living in 1930s Germany as a climbing dosser and then they notice you.......
My Life
By Anderl Heckmair gives a very interesting contrast too.
And an insight into living in 1930s Germany as a climbing dosser and then they notice you.......
1
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
My choice too, am never able to get the account of the headtorches winking out from the back of my mind when playing in snow.
> 'Games Climbers Play' is a fantastic collection of the some of the best climbing writing up to that time.
> It is worth it just for the two introductory chapters - the touchstone philosopy of Lito Tejada-Flores that created a framework for understanding the climbing games and the deep introspection of Ed Drummonds epic on Trolltind. Two hugely different pieces but both capturing the essence of climbing literature.
> This is my desert island book.
My choice too, am never able to get the account of the headtorches winking out from the back of my mind when playing in snow.
Post edited at 08:52
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
In Monte Viso's Horizon by Will McLewin. Just the right amount of understated, laconic words, and with interesting things to say about all aspects of being in the mountains, from plants and bivouacs to food, commercial development and solitude.
In Monte Viso's Horizon by Will McLewin. Just the right amount of understated, laconic words, and with interesting things to say about all aspects of being in the mountains, from plants and bivouacs to food, commercial development and solitude.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Mountains of my life by Walter Bonatti. Had me feeling exposure queasy even though I was in bed. A great read.
Also honourable mentions to Feeding the Rat, Life and Limb, Totem Pole and White Spider.
Mountains of my life by Walter Bonatti. Had me feeling exposure queasy even though I was in bed. A great read.
Also honourable mentions to Feeding the Rat, Life and Limb, Totem Pole and White Spider.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Are you on a waiting list for a funny bone transplant?
> Utter banal tripe........ probably the most overrated book I've ever read.
Are you on a waiting list for a funny bone transplant?
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2
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
has anyone read an English translation of My Vertical World by Jerzy Kukuczka? Always wondered whether it's any good but can't justify spending £100 to find out!
has anyone read an English translation of My Vertical World by Jerzy Kukuczka? Always wondered whether it's any good but can't justify spending £100 to find out!
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
The Alps from End to End by William Conway. A nice antidote to the lugubrious tomes of the previous decades, but nevertheless thoughtfully written with humour, humanity and a feeling for geography.
The Alps from End to End by William Conway. A nice antidote to the lugubrious tomes of the previous decades, but nevertheless thoughtfully written with humour, humanity and a feeling for geography.
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In reply to ianstevens:
Indeed, the crevasse rescue was inspired, and probably from painful experience.
> Are you on a waiting list for a funny bone transplant?
Indeed, the crevasse rescue was inspired, and probably from painful experience.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Assume you haven't read Mountain Days and Bothy Nights then
For me the best would be The White Spider
I note no mention of Joe Tasker or Pete Boardman books?
> Utter banal tripe........ probably the most overrated book I've ever read.
Assume you haven't read Mountain Days and Bothy Nights then
For me the best would be The White Spider
I note no mention of Joe Tasker or Pete Boardman books?
1
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I also felt, after reading many climbing books and having been climbing for a while, that mountains of the mind managed to explain quite a few feelings that had not become thoughts.
I also felt, after reading many climbing books and having been climbing for a while, that mountains of the mind managed to explain quite a few feelings that had not become thoughts.
4
In reply to cb294:
On the same note, Anatoli Boukreev's 'the climb' is good to balance out 'into thin air'...
On the same note, Anatoli Boukreev's 'the climb' is good to balance out 'into thin air'...
5
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
I clicked on this thread specifically to say Fiva. Bloody brilliant book.
I clicked on this thread specifically to say Fiva. Bloody brilliant book.
1
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Bernadette McDonald's biography of Charles Houston 'Brotherhood of the rope' is a very good read. Houston led the 1953 American expedition to K2, and became an expert on high-altitude medicine. it's a fascinating account of a very rich life.
Bernadette McDonald's biography of Charles Houston 'Brotherhood of the rope' is a very good read. Houston led the 1953 American expedition to K2, and became an expert on high-altitude medicine. it's a fascinating account of a very rich life.
In reply to kwoods:
Rock n Roll Mountains.
Very under appreciated that. A really refreshing change from all the "then I grew up and became a climber stories"........
Rock n Roll Mountains.
Very under appreciated that. A really refreshing change from all the "then I grew up and became a climber stories"........
In reply to maxsmith:
Both excellent and at the top of my list. Always loved the title "Conquistadors of the Useless".
I also like from the same era Bonatti's - On the Heights and from an earlier period Giusto Gervasutti's - Gervasutti's Climbs.
> conquistadors of the useless - terray
> mountain's of my life - bonatti
Both excellent and at the top of my list. Always loved the title "Conquistadors of the Useless".
I also like from the same era Bonatti's - On the Heights and from an earlier period Giusto Gervasutti's - Gervasutti's Climbs.
In reply to Christheclimber:
Haven't read those two, I'll have to order them. In return I can recommend Starlight and storm by gaston rebuffat
Haven't read those two, I'll have to order them. In return I can recommend Starlight and storm by gaston rebuffat
In reply to ianstevens:
Not sure what point you really mean by that. My funny bone works perfectly normally - hurts a lot if I knock it.
Anyway, the current count of 2 "likes to 9 "dislikes" of my dislike of Rum Doodle, only, to my mind, confirms just how overrated it is. It really is the sort of drivel which I could have written aged 10 after reading the ascent of Everest. Witless, juvenile crap.
> Are you on a waiting list for a funny bone transplant?
Not sure what point you really mean by that. My funny bone works perfectly normally - hurts a lot if I knock it.
Anyway, the current count of 2 "likes to 9 "dislikes" of my dislike of Rum Doodle, only, to my mind, confirms just how overrated it is. It really is the sort of drivel which I could have written aged 10 after reading the ascent of Everest. Witless, juvenile crap.
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In reply to Pids:
I have. I enjoyed it.
> Assume you haven't read Mountain Days and Bothy Nights then
I have. I enjoyed it.
1
1
In reply to jonnie3430:
I must admit that, while I absolutely love Macfarlane's other books, I thought that Mountains of the Mind was just a tired rehash of other stuff and had nothing new to say. I do like the phrase "feelings that had not become thoughts" though - just the feeling I have about my favourite writers.
> I also felt, after reading many climbing books and having been climbing for a while, that Mountains of the Mind managed to explain quite a few feelings that had not become thoughts.
I must admit that, while I absolutely love Macfarlane's other books, I thought that Mountains of the Mind was just a tired rehash of other stuff and had nothing new to say. I do like the phrase "feelings that had not become thoughts" though - just the feeling I have about my favourite writers.
2
In reply to shaymarriott:
Just bought on Amazon, strictly on this recommendation. If it's not good, I'll moan.
Just bought on Amazon, strictly on this recommendation. If it's not good, I'll moan.
In reply to jonnie3430:
No problem - I can't bear my own posts to be sullied by poor grammar etc., even if it is quoting someone else!
Edit: Mortified to realize that I wrote "the ascent of Everest" in an earlier post, but it's too late to change it now.....
> Thanks for the caps, I couldn't bring myself to edit.
No problem - I can't bear my own posts to be sullied by poor grammar etc., even if it is quoting someone else!
Edit: Mortified to realize that I wrote "the ascent of Everest" in an earlier post, but it's too late to change it now.....
Post edited at 13:47
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Indeed.
> No problem - I can't bear my own posts to be sullied by poor grammar, etc., even if it is quoting someone else!
Indeed.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Well, if you really are a stickler you might want to take advantage of a half-day ellipsis workshop.
Well, if you really are a stickler you might want to take advantage of a half-day ellipsis workshop.
In reply to felt:
I clearly need to. I even had to google it .....
> Well, if you really are a stickler you might want to take advantage of a half-day ellipsis workshop.
I clearly need to. I even had to google it .....
2
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Paul Pritchard's Deep Play is excellent, ans is Conquistadors of the Useless.
However, thinking about the book I read more than a couple of times, it's Pat Ament's biography of John Gill 'Master of Rock', which I go back to time and time again in spite of Ament's writing style. A true visionary, with bouldering pictures dating from the 50s and 60s which look like the modern idiom. Genuinely inspirational.
Paul Pritchard's Deep Play is excellent, ans is Conquistadors of the Useless.
However, thinking about the book I read more than a couple of times, it's Pat Ament's biography of John Gill 'Master of Rock', which I go back to time and time again in spite of Ament's writing style. A true visionary, with bouldering pictures dating from the 50s and 60s which look like the modern idiom. Genuinely inspirational.
In reply to Christheclimber:
I know from past threads that I'm in a minority, but I've always felt that was an ungainly and even slightly absurd title. I can almost hear the hard-pressed translator saying to himself "'Conquerants de l'Inutile' - it would be a bit blunt and vainglorious to say 'conquerors' (even though Terray doesn't do British modesty) - I'll settle for 'conquistadors', maybe sounds a bit more noble and Romantic." So we end up with a slightly recherché Spanish word, linked to an awkward quasi-noun normally used in English as an adjective.
But I agree with you on those two.
> Always loved the title "Conquistadors of the Useless".
I know from past threads that I'm in a minority, but I've always felt that was an ungainly and even slightly absurd title. I can almost hear the hard-pressed translator saying to himself "'Conquerants de l'Inutile' - it would be a bit blunt and vainglorious to say 'conquerors' (even though Terray doesn't do British modesty) - I'll settle for 'conquistadors', maybe sounds a bit more noble and Romantic." So we end up with a slightly recherché Spanish word, linked to an awkward quasi-noun normally used in English as an adjective.
> I also like from the same era Bonatti's - On the Heights and from an earlier period Giusto Gervasutti's - Gervasutti's Climbs.
But I agree with you on those two.
2
In reply to Robert Durran:
Good. Once that's sorted you simply must attend to the AWOL comma before 'etc.', which johnnie rather thoughtfully inserted in a sort of grammatical tête-à-tête when he was quoting you. And please do mind your dashes and hyphens. It's not rocketry math, you know.
Good. Once that's sorted you simply must attend to the AWOL comma before 'etc.', which johnnie rather thoughtfully inserted in a sort of grammatical tête-à-tête when he was quoting you. And please do mind your dashes and hyphens. It's not rocketry math, you know.
4
In reply to Bob Aitken:
The title was Geoff Sutton's (the translator's) masterstroke. Conquistadors is such a grandiloquent word that you instinctively imagine it will be followed by something equally grandiose, only to be brought up short by 'the useless'. The rhetorical effect is called bathos, and it evinces a self-denigrating humour for which the French are not always renowned.
The title was Geoff Sutton's (the translator's) masterstroke. Conquistadors is such a grandiloquent word that you instinctively imagine it will be followed by something equally grandiose, only to be brought up short by 'the useless'. The rhetorical effect is called bathos, and it evinces a self-denigrating humour for which the French are not always renowned.
4
In reply to felt:
I believe that there is no hard and fast rule (or at least the rule is disputed) about use of a serial comma. I never use it, so don't use it before "etc" either.
Nor even rocketry maths.
Anyway, enough pedantry. Books are far more interesting.
> Good. Once that's sorted you simply must attend to the AWOL comma before 'etc.', which johnnie rather thoughtfully inserted in a sort of grammatical tête-à-tête when he was quoting you.
I believe that there is no hard and fast rule (or at least the rule is disputed) about use of a serial comma. I never use it, so don't use it before "etc" either.
> It's not rocketry math, you know.
Nor even rocketry maths.
Anyway, enough pedantry. Books are far more interesting.
1
1
In reply to Robert Durran:
I'm no fan of the Oxford comma - consider the different meanings of these two sentences.
I went climbing with John, an architect, and Peter.
I went climbing with John, an architect and Peter.
I'm no fan of the Oxford comma - consider the different meanings of these two sentences.
I went climbing with John, an architect, and Peter.
I went climbing with John, an architect and Peter.
1
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Total Alpinisme by Rene Desmaison. I read it before my first Alpine trip, not the best idea.
Total Alpinisme by Rene Desmaison. I read it before my first Alpine trip, not the best idea.
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I'm obviously from a more innocent age but my two favourites are "Mountaineering in Scotland" by Bill Murray, and Tom Weir's autobiography. Both inspirational in getting me doing things in the hills.
Literature wise, I really enjoyed Lionel Terray's "Conquistadors of the useless" - pure descriptive joy.
I'm obviously from a more innocent age but my two favourites are "Mountaineering in Scotland" by Bill Murray, and Tom Weir's autobiography. Both inspirational in getting me doing things in the hills.
Literature wise, I really enjoyed Lionel Terray's "Conquistadors of the useless" - pure descriptive joy.
1
In reply to Robert:
Yes, they are, no doubt, but stay awhile as I don't think it's an instance of a serial comma, although it looks sorta like one. I've always taken it to be a one-off rule pertaining to the use of 'etc.'. Like you I don't use the serial comma.
Yes, they are, no doubt, but stay awhile as I don't think it's an instance of a serial comma, although it looks sorta like one. I've always taken it to be a one-off rule pertaining to the use of 'etc.'. Like you I don't use the serial comma.
In reply to felt:
Well "etc" is abbreviated Latin for "and the rest" so I would have thought that it is a serial/Oxford comma.
And I dislike "sorta" almost as much a "math".
> Yes, they are, no doubt, but stay awhile as I don't think it's an instance of a serial comma, although it looks sorta like one. I've always taken it to be a one-off rule pertaining to the use of 'etc.'. Like you I don't use the serial comma.
Well "etc" is abbreviated Latin for "and the rest" so I would have thought that it is a serial/Oxford comma.
And I dislike "sorta" almost as much a "math".
1
1
In reply to Robert Durran:
I appreciate your reasoning, but which looks better/more natural?
Pink, indigo, purple etc.
Pink, indigo, purple, etc.
Bingo! (re sorta). (Math was just shooting fish in a barrel.)
I appreciate your reasoning, but which looks better/more natural?
Pink, indigo, purple etc.
Pink, indigo, purple, etc.
Bingo! (re sorta). (Math was just shooting fish in a barrel.)
In reply to felt:
Obviously subjective, but I find no comma more aesthetically pleasing. Or rather, the comma just looks odd to me.
> I appreciate your reasoning, but which looks better/more natural?
> Pink, indigo, purple etc.
> Pink, indigo, purple, etc.
> Pink, indigo, purple, etc.
Obviously subjective, but I find no comma more aesthetically pleasing. Or rather, the comma just looks odd to me.
1
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
for variety and enthusiasm how about
Colin Kirkus -Let's go climbing!
Andy Kirkpatrick - Psychovertical
for variety and enthusiasm how about
Colin Kirkus -Let's go climbing!
Andy Kirkpatrick - Psychovertical
1
In reply to John2:
I like to think I was aware of the bathos in the French title, and of Geoff Sutton's valiant attempt to sustain it in English; I just happen to find the result jarringly awkward and incongruous.
But I suspect book titles may present delicate challenges for translators, because they can be very compressed expressions of a distinct cultural perspective. So the translators have my sympathy. It's interesting that some well-known titles of European climbing books have been tweaked or even changed altogether in their English editions, perhaps to respect perceived Anglo-Saxon sensibilities, or maybe just to try to improve sales. Bonatti's 'On the Heights' mentioned in this thread, or Buhl's 'Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage', are just two examples. And it works the other way, so 'Into the void' becomes 'La mort suspendue'.
But then American publishers have done that with British books too - most notably perhaps when Dutton published Hunt's 'The Ascent of Everest' as 'The Conquest of Everest' ... I wonder what Colonel Hunt made of that.
> The title was Geoff Sutton's (the translator's) masterstroke. Conquistadors is such a grandiloquent word that you instinctively imagine it will be followed by something equally grandiose, only to be brought up short by 'the useless'. The rhetorical effect is called bathos, and it evinces a self-denigrating humour for which the French are not always renowned.
I like to think I was aware of the bathos in the French title, and of Geoff Sutton's valiant attempt to sustain it in English; I just happen to find the result jarringly awkward and incongruous.
But I suspect book titles may present delicate challenges for translators, because they can be very compressed expressions of a distinct cultural perspective. So the translators have my sympathy. It's interesting that some well-known titles of European climbing books have been tweaked or even changed altogether in their English editions, perhaps to respect perceived Anglo-Saxon sensibilities, or maybe just to try to improve sales. Bonatti's 'On the Heights' mentioned in this thread, or Buhl's 'Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage', are just two examples. And it works the other way, so 'Into the void' becomes 'La mort suspendue'.
But then American publishers have done that with British books too - most notably perhaps when Dutton published Hunt's 'The Ascent of Everest' as 'The Conquest of Everest' ... I wonder what Colonel Hunt made of that.
In reply to Bob Aitken:
Jeff Connor's
Creagh Dhu Climber: The Life and Times of John Cunningham is my favourite, probably cos many of the characters were the heros of my youth
Jeff Connor's
Creagh Dhu Climber: The Life and Times of John Cunningham is my favourite, probably cos many of the characters were the heros of my youth
2
In reply to Bob Aitken:
You have written several times the number of words that I wrote, but nothing that you have said has addressed the question of why you do not like the use of the word 'conquistadors'.
You have written several times the number of words that I wrote, but nothing that you have said has addressed the question of why you do not like the use of the word 'conquistadors'.
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Pedantry seems to be alive and well on these forums. Arguments about commas and semi-colons proliferate . I had to Google 'Oxford comma' -O Level English Language in 1965 didn't suffice. However Bob Aitkens' comments on 'Conquistadors of the Useless' take some beating , arguing about the semantics of translation wins my 'Pedant of the month award'. I note from his profile that we are of the same age and knowing the perversity of climbers of my generation I hope he will consider it as back-handed praise.
Favourite books :
Scrambles in the Alps-Whymper
Annapurna - Herzog
White Spider
Classic Rock
Hard Rock
Pedantry seems to be alive and well on these forums. Arguments about commas and semi-colons proliferate . I had to Google 'Oxford comma' -O Level English Language in 1965 didn't suffice. However Bob Aitkens' comments on 'Conquistadors of the Useless' take some beating , arguing about the semantics of translation wins my 'Pedant of the month award'. I note from his profile that we are of the same age and knowing the perversity of climbers of my generation I hope he will consider it as back-handed praise.
Favourite books :
Scrambles in the Alps-Whymper
Annapurna - Herzog
White Spider
Classic Rock
Hard Rock
2
1
In reply to John2:
In fairness, I only wrote lots of words because I side-tracked myself into a rumination on some vaguely related tricky issues of translation. Just because I'm interested in words and their subtle influence on how we think and react.
On the original point it may simply be that I find 'conquistadors' a bit overblown; 'the useless' a bit grammatically contrived; and the combination a bit odd. In the interests of brevity, 'jarring' is the best I can do. But I don't pretend it's of any high significance ...
In fairness, I only wrote lots of words because I side-tracked myself into a rumination on some vaguely related tricky issues of translation. Just because I'm interested in words and their subtle influence on how we think and react.
On the original point it may simply be that I find 'conquistadors' a bit overblown; 'the useless' a bit grammatically contrived; and the combination a bit odd. In the interests of brevity, 'jarring' is the best I can do. But I don't pretend it's of any high significance ...
Post edited at 22:24
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In reply to Removed Userjess13:
Sure, quite chuffed to be Pedant of the Month. Especially when it's the 29th and there's not much time for contenders to overtake.
Sure, quite chuffed to be Pedant of the Month. Especially when it's the 29th and there's not much time for contenders to overtake.
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In reply to Removed Userjess13:
I don't see why that even counts as pedantry, let alone being worthy of pedantry award; it is an interesting discussion of actual language.
> Pedantry seems to be alive and well on these forum................. Bob Aitkens' comments on 'Conquistadors of the Useless' take some beating , arguing about the semantics of translation wins my 'Pedant of the month award'.
I don't see why that even counts as pedantry, let alone being worthy of pedantry award; it is an interesting discussion of actual language.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Almost all of these are definitely my favourite ever climbing book, but to the list should be added The Bond, by Simon McCartney, just out this year. Absolutely riveting.
Almost all of these are definitely my favourite ever climbing book, but to the list should be added The Bond, by Simon McCartney, just out this year. Absolutely riveting.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Dont despair you came a close second with your Oxford comma. I have been asking people if they knew what an Oxford comma was, the best answer was a rare butterfly. When I explained in detail I received the glazed eyes look - a sure sign of pedantry. However I must thank you for the information as it has led me on via Wikipedia to the 'dangling modifier' best example courtesy of Groucho Marx:
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know."
I'm sure you'd like to explain that one.
Back to books
The Complete Doctor Stories - GJF Dutton. A must for fans of tall stories. Quote from the frontispiece "The Hilarious Adventures of the Doctor and his hapless companions climbing and walking in the Scottish Highlands."
> I don't see why that even counts as pedantry, let alone being worthy of pedantry award; it is an interesting discussion of actual language.
Dont despair you came a close second with your Oxford comma. I have been asking people if they knew what an Oxford comma was, the best answer was a rare butterfly. When I explained in detail I received the glazed eyes look - a sure sign of pedantry. However I must thank you for the information as it has led me on via Wikipedia to the 'dangling modifier' best example courtesy of Groucho Marx:
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know."
I'm sure you'd like to explain that one.
Back to books
The Complete Doctor Stories - GJF Dutton. A must for fans of tall stories. Quote from the frontispiece "The Hilarious Adventures of the Doctor and his hapless companions climbing and walking in the Scottish Highlands."
In reply to Removed Userjess13:
What a superb quote. A dangling modifier and an inverted subordinate clause in one joke.
What a superb quote. A dangling modifier and an inverted subordinate clause in one joke.
In reply to jvarmstrong:
With my GCSE English I hardly dare to reply to this topic.
So (and I'm taking a deep breath before I type as I imagine the storm of nitpicking that I may provoke) I'd just like to say that I loved Let's Go Climbing by Colin Kirkus too. It's a few years since I read it but I seem to remember that it began with the caveat not to replicate any of the techniques that it describes as they're outdated and dangerous. This somehow primed my enjoyment of what followed. Would anyone agree that the book was ahead of its time in the way that Kirkus adds his own first hand descriptions of his climbing experiences so as to try to persuade others to try climbing too? What makes it stand out is that it's written in the understated, and slightly stilted, syntax of its time (30s?) but manages to convey such an infectious joy and enthusiasm for climbing and the mountains. Having led Kirkus' Corner recently made me realise that the chap could climb too. I loved it and it made me smile. Reaching the end of the book and discovering that he disappeared whilst on a mission with Bomber Command was a blow. He should have lived to climb, and love climbing, until he was much older.
I'd like to recommend Upon That Mountain by Eric Shipton as another joyful book from the same era.
With my GCSE English I hardly dare to reply to this topic.
So (and I'm taking a deep breath before I type as I imagine the storm of nitpicking that I may provoke) I'd just like to say that I loved Let's Go Climbing by Colin Kirkus too. It's a few years since I read it but I seem to remember that it began with the caveat not to replicate any of the techniques that it describes as they're outdated and dangerous. This somehow primed my enjoyment of what followed. Would anyone agree that the book was ahead of its time in the way that Kirkus adds his own first hand descriptions of his climbing experiences so as to try to persuade others to try climbing too? What makes it stand out is that it's written in the understated, and slightly stilted, syntax of its time (30s?) but manages to convey such an infectious joy and enthusiasm for climbing and the mountains. Having led Kirkus' Corner recently made me realise that the chap could climb too. I loved it and it made me smile. Reaching the end of the book and discovering that he disappeared whilst on a mission with Bomber Command was a blow. He should have lived to climb, and love climbing, until he was much older.
I'd like to recommend Upon That Mountain by Eric Shipton as another joyful book from the same era.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
The flame of adventure by Simon Yates captured my imagination as a youngster.
More recently, Deep Play and Mountains of the Mind definitely get top three spots.
The flame of adventure by Simon Yates captured my imagination as a youngster.
More recently, Deep Play and Mountains of the Mind definitely get top three spots.
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Eric Newby -A short walk in the Hindu Kush . By far the best book on how to climb a mountain ever written. one of my favourite books full stop. Anybody who has ever sat at a desk thinking about climbing more than whatever they should be thinking about , should read it.
Eric Newby -A short walk in the Hindu Kush . By far the best book on how to climb a mountain ever written. one of my favourite books full stop. Anybody who has ever sat at a desk thinking about climbing more than whatever they should be thinking about , should read it.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Here's something that doesn't get mentioned often (except by me): First on the Rope, by Roger Frison-Roche. It is just so evocative of the Chamonix valley on the 30s, and a real insight into the lives of the guides (and their clients) at that time.
I can never walk past the Petit Aiguillette d'Argentiere without thinking of it, and the provenance of all the ironmongery that is still up there!
Here's something that doesn't get mentioned often (except by me): First on the Rope, by Roger Frison-Roche. It is just so evocative of the Chamonix valley on the 30s, and a real insight into the lives of the guides (and their clients) at that time.
I can never walk past the Petit Aiguillette d'Argentiere without thinking of it, and the provenance of all the ironmongery that is still up there!
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Deep Play.......the most over rated book in history!
Some great books around for obvious reasons, but White Spider leads the way, followed by TTV. Games Climbers Play...yeah, but a cop out ansŵer!! The Villan is good......Into Thin Air good but soooo sad!
And what's the worst?!!!!
Deep Play.......the most over rated book in history!
Some great books around for obvious reasons, but White Spider leads the way, followed by TTV. Games Climbers Play...yeah, but a cop out ansŵer!! The Villan is good......Into Thin Air good but soooo sad!
And what's the worst?!!!!
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