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What emergencies to expect climbing?

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 Greasy Prusiks 29 Sep 2016
Evening all,

I've been reading the thread about what medical supplies to take climbing and it's got me pondering what injuries you're most likely to treat as a climber. It seems sensible to match your training and first aid kit to the most common of the situations that could be encountered. Thinking more along the serious end of the scale so not finger tendons!

I've poked around online but can't find anything particularly useful. I could have a good guess at most of it but was interested in any opinions/links to data that UKC might have.

Cheers
 SAF 29 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Here's my reference list from a short essay, I did as part of my paramedic science degree, that you might find of interest.

Hearns ST, Fraser MH, Allan DB, McLean AN (2006) Spinal Injuries in Scottish Mountaineers; Wilderness & Environmental Medicine, 17(3):191-194

Jones G, Asghar A, Llewellyn DJ (2008) The Epidemiology of rock-climbing injuries; British Journal of Sports Medicine 42; 773-778

Lack DA, Sheets AL, Entin JM, Christenson DC, (2012) Rock Climbing Rescues, Injuries, and Trends in Boulder County, Colorado; Wilderness and Environmental Medicine, 23: 223-230

Nelson NG, McKenzie LB, (2009) Rock Climbing Injuries Treated in Emergency Departments in the U.S., 1990 £2007; American Journal of Preventive Medicine; 37(3) 0749-3797

Scholff V, Morrison A, Schwarz U, Scholff I, Kupper T (2010) Evaluation of Injury and Fatality Risk in Rock and Ice Climbing; Sports Medicine 40(8); 657-679
Post edited at 22:09
 marsbar 29 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

The mostly likely is probably a road accident on the way to or from.
3
In reply to SAF:

Brilliant really useful links thanks.

To summarise the links it seems sprains and fractures of the lower body are the most common injuries. Cuts and blood loss are less common.

Marsbar also appears to have a point. Basketball is more likely to give injury than sport, indoor or bouldering. (excluding fatalities).

Appreciate any other musings.
 stp 29 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

I guess a split tip would be fairly serious since it could curtail ones climbing for the day.

First aid:
1) Oil of cloves anesthetic - can also be used for toothache.
2) Liquid skin
3) Superglue - also useful for some quick surgical procedures
4) Zinc oxide tape - many other first aid applications.

:^)
 SAF 29 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

A surprising/ reassuring fact that I don't have a link to (it is on one of the Bangor Mountain Medicine Project research posters in Bangor ED should you ever find yourself there), is that the chance of having a unstable neck fracture and surviving to reach hospital (i.e not being killed outright by that injury or another received at the same time) is about 1%

 BusyLizzie 29 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Finger injuries are not serious in that they are not life-threatening etc, but they are perhaps reasonably likely, they cause a surprising amount of pain, and will end the day's fun. So perhaps worth bearing in mind.
 bouldery bits 29 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Gaffa tape fixes many things and is incredibly versatile.
 FactorXXX 29 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Missing last orders!
 daWalt 29 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

hmmmm
I'd think most common would be probably bone fracture / compound fracture (shudder)
head and back injuries - best left to the professionals
bleeding - should be able to stop it (a good few sterri strips)
hypothermia - not really a 1st aid kit thing as such but not to be ignored
flappers - awwww diddums
everything else - gaffertape
 spenser 29 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
I reckon that the only thing I would be surprised to see in a first aid situation at a crag is burns.
I've personally seen:
Shock
Broken vertebrae,
Seizure
Broken Heels
Cracked Ribs
Punctured Lung

Those were mixed up over two different incidents.
 lithos 29 Sep 2016
In reply to spenser:

really

rope burns are not that unusual even if no big accident has occurred, eg a fall with rope wrap or belayers hands
 LastBoyScout 30 Sep 2016
In reply to spenser:

> I reckon that the only thing I would be surprised to see in a first aid situation at a crag is burns.

Say that to the back of most of my right leg after I took a whipper from Chequer's Crack and fell across the rope.

Probably a lot of sun burn, too.
 Billhook 30 Sep 2016
In reply to daWalt:

Do you really think a few sterri strips are going to stop a bloody great gash sustained on a fall involved in hitting rocks on the way down?
 GrahamD 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

I know it's a serious thread and this going to sound flippant but : hangovers
 Michael Gordon 30 Sep 2016
In reply to lithos:

Rope 'burns' are not pleasant but surely don't require first aid?!
4
 Ann S 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

My injury from a leader fall was a broken wrist, superbly dealt with by my partner who splinted it with the small carpet square he carried as a foot wipe. This was secured with slings and gave much amusement to the triage staff at Chesterfield hospital.
 daWalt 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Dave Perry:
Depends on the size and condition doesn't it.
There's always going to be a limit to what any 1St aid kit can do.
The point to the op was broken bones are most likely, but you should be able to deal with cuts bleeding etc.
Its up to you how far down this road you want to go.......
Post edited at 08:49
 tehmarks 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Michael Gordon:

Serious rope burns from - for example - a belayer failing to catch a falling leader would almost certainly require first aid?
In reply to tehmarks:

I think that depends on what you want your want your first aid kit to do. You'll never save a life by being ready for a rope burn but you will be able to reduce discomfort.
 tehmarks 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

No, very true.
 andrewmc 30 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:
I've got a different first aid kit for the car!

(more large bulky dressings, some stuff that might be nice post-climb like coldpacks which are too big for the hill/crag)
Post edited at 09:18
 GrahamD 30 Sep 2016
In reply to tehmarks:

> Serious rope burns from - for example - a belayer failing to catch a falling leader would almost certainly require first aid?

Neurofen, in my painful experience. Beyond that there isn't a lot you can do by way of first aid that running water won't deal with.
 tehmarks 30 Sep 2016
In reply to GrahamD:

Fair point. I suppose it also depends on what sort of climbing you're doing; if you're doing single-pitch cragging with a reasonably short walk-in you might be more likely to take things to treat minor problems that might be encountered, whereas if you're in the big pointy mountains you'd probably choose to take the bare minimum to deal with emergencies, or not take anything at all and improvise.
 jimtitt 30 Sep 2016
In reply to spenser:

> I reckon that the only thing I would be surprised to see in a first aid situation at a crag is burns.

A party of American students arrived at a crag in the southern Frankenjura one day and the attractive young girl was obviously in some discomfort. My wife is a doctor and inquired about her problem then raided about ten first aid kits to patch her up. Getting tanked the night before and sitting on a hot grill is not to be recommended
 LastBoyScout 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Michael Gordon:

> Rope 'burns' are not pleasant but surely don't require first aid?!

My rope burn ran from mid thigh to below my knee and was weeping so badly that bending my knee caused my calf to stick to my thigh and the subsequent pain of peeling them apart. It meant I couldn't continue climbing and made the walk back to the car somewhat awkward. I would have been glad of a suitable dressing at the time.

When I got home, it was cleaned and properly dressed by my Mum - senior practice nurse. Still awkward for a few days, as the dressings dug in the back of my knee every time I bent my leg.
 Howard J 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

It's perhaps worth pointing out that in 40 years of climbing I've been involved in only three serious situations requiring proper medical attention, and in each case expert help was quickly on hand. First aid mainly consisted of keeping the casualty warm and comfortable and reassured.

What you need will depend on the activity and location - cragging near the road presents different risks from mountaineering in a remote location.

The most likely injuries are minor cuts, scrapes and sprains. For serious stuff you will be calling out the MRT, and there is probably little you can do besides maintaining airway, controlling bleeds and keeping the casualty warm and comfortable until they arrive.

More important than kit is having some knowledge of first aid. You can always improvise if you don't have the right kit with you, if you know what to do.

Everyone should learn CPR.
 summo 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

wet wipes/toilet roll will see far more emergency use than any first aid kit.
 Dell 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Howard J:

Genuine question (no dislikes please)

What use is CPR? What is the likelihood of being in a situation where it needs to be done, and what are odds that a patient receiving CPR will survive?
 MG 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Dell:

Don't know about odds overall but inthe two serious incidents I have been involved with it was used for one. Unfortunately the person died, however, in slightly different circumstances in might have helped. The only bit of first aid equipment we used was the mask so you don't have to breath in to blood and vomit. I recommend carrying one.... Everything else was utterly irrelevant despite bleeding and broken bones.

It does seem to me first aid is useful either for trivial stuff (e.g. blisters) or the literally deadly serious. The middle ground, like a broken ankle requires, outside help but little in area of first aid that can't be improvised (e.g. warmth, stopping bleeding).
 Spengler 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Dell:
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/06/cpr-effective.html

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1105081

Chance of being alive 30 days later and with a normally functioning brain are about 2%. And I think that 2% includes survivors with 'moderate cerebral disability' too.

So I guess that in a climbing situation where the cardiac arrest is likely to be caused by traumatic injuries, less than that?

Edit: This is for adults. CPR can be much more effective in children due to a higher chance of respiratory arrest, as opposed to cardiac arrest if I remember rightly.
Post edited at 11:45
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
The variety of opinions reflects the diversity of UK climbing in terms of areas, geography and first aid skills of climbers.

One would need slightly different first aid kits for a Scottish winter day, a bothy hike, sea cliffs or a day in the peak district.

Whatever the situation communication is vital. A whistle for signalling for help is still the most efficient cheapest method. Pre prepared Accident and patient report forms make communication easier with medical and rescue staff. See: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/download-your-own-accident-report-form?s=4 .

Prevention of hypothermia in the casualty and the rescuer is important. A head torch can make a prolonged evacuation easier.

Now one can think about treatment. In reality CPR in a remote area for a traumatic cardiac arrest will not work. It may for hypothermia, avalanche, lightening strike or a heart attack.

Knowledge is more important than equipment. Aspirin is potentially life saving for a heart attack. The simplest dressings are sanitary towels over a non adherent dressings held in place with gaffa tape.

Keep it simple and versatile

David Hillebrandt
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 Howard J 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Dell:

According to the Mountain Rescue's 2014 report, that year in England and Wales there were 20 heart attack incidents, of which 11 were fatal. These are more likely to be hillwalkers than rock climbers.

How much help CPR will be in a climbing/hillwalking situation where it may take a considerable time for a defibrillator to arrive is doubtful. But if someone keels over in front of you, isn't it better to do something, however remote the chance of saving them, than just standing around watching them die?

However we don't spend all our times in the hills, and back in civilisation CPR can significantly improve the chances of survival, especially if a defibrillator is also available (these are increasingly common). So knowing how to do CPR can save lives.

1
 summo 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Dell:

> Genuine question (no dislikes please)..... What use is CPR? What is the likelihood of being in a situation where it needs to be done, and what are odds that a patient receiving CPR will survive?

lightning strike, or on the honey pots of idwal circuit etc.. heart attacks of those doing their only walk of the year... ?
 LovelyMrTom 30 Sep 2016
In reply to David Hillebrandt:
<Snip>
> Knowledge is more important than equipment. Aspirin is potentially life saving for a heart attack. The simplest dressings are sanitary towels over a non adherent dressings held in place with gaffa tape.

Aspirin can also be fatal to anyone with an allergy and should NEVER be given in a first aid situation. In fact, no medication should be given unless it is medication that the casualty has to treat the current problem and only if they can take it themselves, ie you can put the pills/inhaler/whatever in their hand but that's about the extent of it if I remember my first aid course correctly.

11
 Badgers 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Dell:

Low chance of survival but worth it. Out of hospital cardiac arrest has approx 10% survival in UK, but this can be improved (has been shown in cities in USA with better access to CPR training, Defibs etc and a big move to do the same here). Traumatic cardiac arrest has poor outcomes, but survival rates of up to 7% have been reported in some studies. Grim numbers, but worth a go in many people's minds. Obviously if you're remote and rescue is a way off it may not be feasible at all.

I've given CPR out of hospital and the casualty has survived. Not climbing related, but out in rural spots.
1
 John Workman 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Howard J:

Oh well then. Must remember to pack the sanitary towels and gaffa tape along with the friends and ice screws in the rucksack next time. I can just see the wife's face if she clocks that.
1
 JayPee630 30 Sep 2016
In reply to LovelyMrTom:

That's rubbish about not giving medication. Depends on your skill level and all sorts of variables. And do you know who you're correcting btw?
 Billhook 30 Sep 2016
In reply to David Hillebrandt:

Sanitary dressings are designed to absorb small quantities of blood. Not the kind of amounts you are ever going to get in a 1st Aid scenario where the person may get worse if you don't dress the wound with a correct dressing designed to hold and prevent loss of lots of blood.

Also approximately 50% of the population is male and most of those don't need, carry or use sanitary dressings.
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 john spence 30 Sep 2016
In reply to spenser:
> I reckon that the only thing I would be surprised to see in a first aid situation at a crag is burns.

Seen two cases of serious burns on climbing trips,
First was a girl using a waist belay ( pre belay device days) her leader fell near the top of pitch two on Sabre Cut, she held him but suffered serious rope burns to both forearms. The burns formed a helix around each arm ( T. Shirt not ideal) I could smell the burning flesh.
The second was when a schoolboy knocked over a stove and scalded his legs..... compounded when his mate applied Deep Heat cream to the burn!!!!!



























Post edited at 20:40
 marsbar 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Dave Perry:

They will hold a fair amount and at that point you can always put a tshirt or something on as well. Pressure is more important than catching the blood neatly.
 gavinj 30 Sep 2016
In reply to LovelyMrTom:

I take it your not president of the UIAAMedical commission?
 Pilo 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

In my experience you should have two things in your medical kit to have almost everything temporarily covered:
Opium and a roll of finger tape.
 Oujmik 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Dell:

I don't know the stats, but in 'non-mountain' first aid CPR is probably the single most critical skill - at least that's how it's presented. The theory being a victim without a pulse is undergoing irreversible brain damage every second they are waiting for an ambulance and plugging this gap with CPR can be the difference between them living or dying. Few other 'first aid' interventions have the potential to alter the outcome so dramatically. That said, the proportion of the time that it's actually successful may not be that high (see links above).

On the hill, CPR plays the same role but could be less effective as it may take far longer for help to arrive and it may not be safe or practical for bystanders to administer CPR for this duration. There may come a time when CPR has to be halted in order for the first aiders to get themselves to safety.

I think kit to keep a casualty warm is probably top on the 'life saving' list. Whereas plasters and other wound dressings are probably top on the 'stop a minor mishap ruining your day' list. Equipment to clean and dress a wound could become more critical on multi-day or more remote trips where hospital care is not at hand.
 SAF 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Oujmik:

> I don't know the stats, but in 'non-mountain' first aid CPR is probably the single most critical skill - at least that's how it's presented.

Surely it's more critical to stop people going into cardiac arrest and requiring CPR in the first place...ie

preventing hypothermia
Aspirin for heart attacks
stopping major haemorrhage
clearing a chocking airway
etc.

As stated above even in ideal circumstances, where a defib and trained help is at the patients side rapidly the stats for surviving a pre-hospital cardiac arrest are dismal.

 LucaC 30 Sep 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

This might sound grim, but they way mountain CPR was framed on my last first aid course (provided by active MRT member) and for an ML/SPA/MIA, was that the process of CRP is more for the benifit of your group and your self than your patient. It might have a low success rate in the field, but at least you would tried everything you could do, before more experienced and equipped help arrives!

I have a very minimal first aid kit with the usual plaster, blister kit, tweezers etc to keep common group problem at bay and minor 'paitents' comfortable, and everything else can be improvised, eg splints etc.

Day to day, working at an indoor wall, its usually broken, dislocated or sprained ankles, wrists, and elbows. Make the patient comfortable and wait for the ambulance, if it is bad enough. I think this is pretty stereotypical of most 'minor' climbing injuries.
 marsbar 30 Sep 2016
In reply to LJC:

We discussed whether you should even start cpr if you were alone in a remote area.
 Oujmik 01 Oct 2016
In reply to SAF:

Yes, agreed. Although of course sometimes first-aiders find a person already in cardiac arrest, which is more the situation I was imagining.
In reply to gavinj:
> I take it your not president of the UIAAMedical commission?

Correct. I resigned in August and am now helping out as vice president. Having said that UIAA positions do not mean one should not be constantly questioned and challenged and sensible discussions on this forum can be of great value if only to outline the total diversity of our sport and activities and approaches to problems in the hills.

I can assure you the meetings of the UIAA medcom have as many divergent professional views as we see on this forum! The important thing is we are all active climbers.

Regards

Dave H
 Lord_ash2000 02 Oct 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

I don't generally take a first aid kit climbing, and if I did it would be basic one with the usual plasters, bandages and other bits in.

The reason is because in climbing I've found the the injuries which happen are either fairly minor (bangs, minor cuts bruises etc) or pretty major (broken limbs, fractured skull, pelvis, internal damage etc)

So in most cases, either the injured party can just limp back to the car in which case I'm not needed, or its far to major for me to deal with and I'd need to call mountain rescue etc. I have one of those typical outdoor first aid certificates but I don't feel like I'd be much use to anyone who suffered a major injury from a big fall. It would just be a matter of comforting them until mountain rescue got there.
In reply to Dell:

A very sensible question especially when related to remote area first aid. Of course there is no correct answer. The first thing to understand is that the results seen on TV dramas are pure fiction. It is very important to appreciate this prior to attempting CPR so one does not feel guilt if the patient does not survive. What one is trying to do is reverse the very final processes of life. In many cases death is inevitable. The problem is we cannot look ahead so cannot predict who will survive and who will not so it is (almost) always worth a try.

One has to take into account risk to oneself (eg: avalanche terrain).

When interpreting data on survival one need to know if one is dealing with a medical or traumatic cardiac arrest. The survival rate is much lower in the latter. One has to know the length of time prior to arrival of more sophisticated skills and equipment and in some Alpine areas of Europe this may be faster than on a road in mid Wales. One has to know the distance and time to full definitive care. One also has to know the definition used for survival. Is this survival to hospital admission, or to hospital discharge or to return home or return to work or full leisure activity?

I suspect the survival for pre hospital resuscitation for trauma in the UK hills is well less than 1%. For a medical cardiac arrest it may be slightly over 1%.

In summary do not be afraid to try CPR if safe to do so but do not be surprised if it fails. As many have said the skills can still be very valuable used in an urban area or en route to the mountains.

Dave H

 Simon4 02 Oct 2016
In reply to David Hillebrandt:

> I suspect the survival for pre hospital resuscitation for trauma in the UK hills is well less than 1%. For a medical cardiac arrest it may be slightly over 1%.

Grim statistics, but probably realistically grim.

To me Dave this is rather reminiscent of the attitude toward avalanche transceivers when used in ski-touring, that wearing them makes you immune to avalanches. In practice just the process of getting to the relevant area, conducting a grid search, narrowing it down and then locating the victim(s) from their signals will take much or all of the precious 15 minutes where you can expect a reasonable chance of getting somebody out alive. This is all done in clumpy ski-touring boots, over broken avalanche debris, stumbling over it and frequently sinking in deeply. Then you have to start the process of digging, trying to do it in the most efficient way possible and not further damaging the casualty in the process. Even when you get them out, you have to deal with a hypothermic, probably seriously anoxic, very likely seriously injured victim and get some sort of a plan together to get you and them out of there.

Transceivers, probes, shovels and all the rest of the kit we solemnly carry are absolute last resort kit, that gives you SOME chance of surviving, not a magic bullet that makes the risk go away.

> One has to take into account risk to oneself (eg: avalanche terrain).

Which in a ski-touring situation is almost always present, not least because that is what caused the problem in the first place. Nor can you assume that because it has gone once, it cannot go again, frequently the opposite is true.

 Bootrock 02 Oct 2016
In reply to SAF:

That is a fantastic post, cheers for that. What was the essay on?

Haven't made my way through the thread yet but some interesting stuff.

 Billhook 02 Oct 2016
In reply to marsbar:

So why not carry a proper bandage? And you'll 'keep your tee shirt on' or whatever item of other kit you use?

Or do you need them for 'personal hygiene' reasons?

 Dave B 03 Oct 2016
In reply to lithos:

Rope burn isnt a burn it is?

Rope burn is an Abrasion unless there is significant heat that needs cooling.

Still first aid worthy, but different first aid.


1
 ChrisJD 03 Oct 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

> It seems sensible to match your training and first aid kit to the most common of the situations that could be encountered. Thinking more along the serious end of the scale so not finger tendons!

As you mentioned training, what about a Glenmore Lodge course:

http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/first-aid-rescue-courses/cat-24-first-aid-m...
In reply to Dave B:

> Rope burn isnt a burn it is?

> Rope burn is an Abrasion unless there is significant heat that needs cooling.

A rope burn is a burn. A bad one involves an enormous amount of heat and can produce a burn that's virtually identical to a 'normal' second-degree heat burn.

 Dave B 03 Oct 2016
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Hence my second sentence.



 spenser 03 Oct 2016
In reply to john spence:

I was admittedly taking the approach that people could deal with severe discomfort, if they've got serious rope burns you're not going to do much for them without a hell of a lot of water or some burn gel in my view, however if you're the John Spencer I think you are I'll bow to far greater medical knowledge!
First aid kit for camping is significantly different to the one I take cragging (not that the latter is of any use, it's been raided a few times by people and I haven't restocked it recently, should probably do that).
 Billhook 04 Oct 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=650629&v=1#x8401817

Given the number of dislikes to my comments about the inappropriate use of 'sanitary pads' as an appropriate 1st aid appliance I can only assume that a lot of you carry these around even if you are a) male and/or b) cannot afford a couple of quid for a properly designed wound dressing.
 The Lemming 04 Oct 2016
In reply to LJC:

> This might sound grim, but they way mountain CPR was framed on my last first aid course (provided by active MRT member) and for an ML/SPA/MIA, was that the process of CRP is more for the benifit of your group and your self than your patient. It might have a low success rate in the field, but at least you would tried everything you could do, before more experienced and equipped help arrives!

I have not read all the replies but skimmed through it all. However this post got my attention.

I agree that CPR may not help the patient recover and yes it does help the grieving process for everybody involved from those doing the CPR to the relatives. Everybody can accept that everything possible was done to give the patient a fighting chance.

However there is one more reason that some may not think of or wish to contemplate, and that is organ donation.
In reply to Dave Perry:

I wouldn't read too much into the dislikes. I think they were probably more to do with who you were disagreeing with than the actual content of your post.
 SAF 04 Oct 2016
In reply to Bootrock:

> That is a fantastic post, cheers for that. What was the essay on?

Essay was on Mechanism/ patterns of injury, we had to choose a sport of our choice to write about, so obviously I chose climbing. I tried to answer the OP about " it's got me pondering what injuries you're most likely to treat as a climber" as best I could before the thread descended into the usual bickering about types of bandages and CPR being the be all and end all of first aid training!!

Obviously my essay (and therefore the references i posted) only looked at traumatic emergencies in the mountains, so it would require a few different links to answer that question including medical emergencies you might encounter whilst climbing.

The main conclusions from the essay were, largely obvious:

Half of all climbers sustain an injury within a 12 month period, the majority of which will be chronic overuse injuries or upper limb injuries from a single strenuous activity.

Only 10% of climbing injuries are caused by falls, but falls account for 75% to 95% of climbing injuries presenting to the emergency department. 15% of falls result in serious injury, 6-7% of falls are fatal.

You will generally hit the ground/ rock feet first, therefore injuries will generally follow a feet up pattern. The common sites of injuries were lower extremity (30-46%), head (12-17%), spinal (13-14%) and trunk (12%), with upper extremity injuries only accounting for as little as 3% of trauma in these patients. Fractures made up 29% of injuries, sprains, and strains a further 29% followed by lacerations (17%); soft tissue injuries (17%); and dislocations (4.3%).

Ice climbing/ Alpine climbing is more dangerous than rock climbing.

The most frequently occurring head injuries that require hospitalisation are caused by rocks/ice falling on climbers, rather than climbers falling on rock/ice.


 john spence 04 Oct 2016
In reply to spenser:
Pretty sure I'm not the John spencer you think I am , my medical knowledge is limited to my own ailments and sadly they are increasing at an alarming rate. ( can't do smiley faces ) I might add add that the girl with the rope burns required plastic surgery to repair the damage and she went on to marry the guy she held.
Post edited at 20:08
 spenser 04 Oct 2016
In reply to john spence:

Indeed you're not, the one I was thinking of lives rather more north than Essex!
 marsbar 04 Oct 2016
In reply to Dave Perry:

I'm female if that's what you mean. If I have a proper bandage with me that's fine, but if I haven't then a sanitary pad is a good alternative as it is designed to catch blood and has the same sort of cover that won't stick to a wound. The modern ones are probably more absorbent than a bandage of the same size as they are compressed to make them thinner.
 Maarten2 05 Oct 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

The main thing I carry is a roll of 'sport tape' - basically medical duck tape. I buy this in the Netherlands, for a couple of quid a roll - have not found a good place in the UK. It's widely used in the Netherlands by physiotherapists. The glue is formulated to go on skin - which I'm not sure is the case with duck tape....
Good for:
- twisted ankles. You can tape a badly twisted ankle and walk out. Does need some practice.
- repairing jackets after slightly too enthusiastic ice axe arrest practice;
- repairing tents;
- taping up fingers (although the narrower variety is better for that)
- taping up heels to prevent blisters;
- taping up the sole of a boot, when it came off;
- repairing rucksacks.
Then anything to stay warm, and if very far away from help a bunch of serious pain killers.
I've also discovered that chalk works great to stop bleeding, coming of Hammer on Etive Slabs.....
 andrewmc 05 Oct 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

I was under the impression that CPR was much more effective in cases of drowning, possible near sea cliffs, since there was nothing actually 'wrong' with them.

Presumably the same would apply for avalanche victims.

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