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In a couple of weeks I'm going (for non-climbing reasons!) to be spending a few days based near Hawes and hope to get out for some soloing and bouldering on gritstone without travelling too far. It is not an area I know at all well or visit often. What guidebook could be recommended for my purposes and for occasional future visits? Options seem to be the N. England Rockfax, one or both volumes of the YMC guide or a cheap second hand copy of the old single volume Yorkshire Grit guide.
In reply to Robert Durran:
If you're around Hawes then I'd recommend the YMC green book and head to Slipstones, Roova etc. If you're visiting that particular area a number of times on occasion then having the definitive will be beneficial. If you stick with RockFax then I suspect you'll be limited to Slipstones, but over the course of a couple of visits you may want to go to one of the smaller, but still excellent, crags.
If you are of an exploratory nature then have a look on www.unknownstones.com as there are some good craglets round there.
If you're around Hawes then I'd recommend the YMC green book and head to Slipstones, Roova etc. If you're visiting that particular area a number of times on occasion then having the definitive will be beneficial. If you stick with RockFax then I suspect you'll be limited to Slipstones, but over the course of a couple of visits you may want to go to one of the smaller, but still excellent, crags.
If you are of an exploratory nature then have a look on www.unknownstones.com as there are some good craglets round there.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
If the old guide is going cheap I'd get that anyway. Good book and unlike the newer ones, not so cluttered by bouldering that it can be a real problem finding the routes!
If the old guide is going cheap I'd get that anyway. Good book and unlike the newer ones, not so cluttered by bouldering that it can be a real problem finding the routes!
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In reply to Robert Durran:
the rockfax and the yorkshire gritstone guides are both pretty good, the rockfax has the advantage of photo tops but the drawings in the old yorkshire grit guide are pretty good. and the gradings are entertaining - you get the odd "E by gum" grade and the like.
the rockfax and the yorkshire gritstone guides are both pretty good, the rockfax has the advantage of photo tops but the drawings in the old yorkshire grit guide are pretty good. and the gradings are entertaining - you get the odd "E by gum" grade and the like.
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
'Cluttered' by some of the best bouldering in Britain, what a nightmare! As excellent as the old YMC guides were, the revamp of the trad coverage to a modern photo topo style is an extensive labour of love: in terms of overall balance of content (routes, problems, usability, history, essays) it's the best and the best value I've yet seen in the UK.
'Cluttered' by some of the best bouldering in Britain, what a nightmare! As excellent as the old YMC guides were, the revamp of the trad coverage to a modern photo topo style is an extensive labour of love: in terms of overall balance of content (routes, problems, usability, history, essays) it's the best and the best value I've yet seen in the UK.
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
I'd second that. It's a great guide, 'cluttered' with the some excellent bouldering.
> If you're around Hawes then I'd recommend the YMC green book and head to Slipstones, Roova etc
I'd second that. It's a great guide, 'cluttered' with the some excellent bouldering.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Go to Slipstones - you don't really need a guidebook, it's a beautiful playground of the best rock in the world (for small stuff). Brilliant bouldering, lovely short routes which can generally be soloed, in a fantastic setting. Can't really think what the drive would be like from Hawes, I suspect not short!
Go to Slipstones - you don't really need a guidebook, it's a beautiful playground of the best rock in the world (for small stuff). Brilliant bouldering, lovely short routes which can generally be soloed, in a fantastic setting. Can't really think what the drive would be like from Hawes, I suspect not short!
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In reply to Jon Stewart:
I don't have a map here but the 1st time I climbed at Slipstones (c1966!!!) we walked in from Wensleydale via the shooters track, a pleasant approach and saves the long drive round that you are alluding too,
Chris
I don't have a map here but the 1st time I climbed at Slipstones (c1966!!!) we walked in from Wensleydale via the shooters track, a pleasant approach and saves the long drive round that you are alluding too,
Chris
In reply to Robert Durran:
New Yorkshire grit guides are both modern masterpieces - thoroughly definitive, informative, well presented, and a lot of interesting reading with history and interviews. Worth having for when I try to drag you down for scary grit slabs over winter.
Old Yorkshire grit guide is irredeemably awful.
New Yorkshire grit guides are both modern masterpieces - thoroughly definitive, informative, well presented, and a lot of interesting reading with history and interviews. Worth having for when I try to drag you down for scary grit slabs over winter.
Old Yorkshire grit guide is irredeemably awful.
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In reply to Fiend:
I couldn't agree more, I have absolutely no idea what redeeming characteristics the old edition could have - particularly when compared to the new ones!!
> Old Yorkshire grit guide is irredeemably awful.
I couldn't agree more, I have absolutely no idea what redeeming characteristics the old edition could have - particularly when compared to the new ones!!
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In reply to Fiend:
In the context of modern guidebooks, maybe, but it is a guidebook of it's time. Hand-drawn topos, describing crags crags right to left, etc have all now given way to photo topos. The old guide did a good job of getting you to the crag and getting you to the routes you wanted to do, but the lack of photo topos and action shots meant it wasn't so good at showing the area off. I'm not sure it's fair to compare a guidebook produced in the old style against the modern guides of today.
In the context of modern guidebooks, maybe, but it is a guidebook of it's time. Hand-drawn topos, describing crags crags right to left, etc have all now given way to photo topos. The old guide did a good job of getting you to the crag and getting you to the routes you wanted to do, but the lack of photo topos and action shots meant it wasn't so good at showing the area off. I'm not sure it's fair to compare a guidebook produced in the old style against the modern guides of today.
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In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
Good for standing on to reach hard-to-reach starting handholds...?
Good for standing on to reach hard-to-reach starting handholds...?
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Thanks all for the response. Looks like Slipstones should be my first port of call then (and it seems I'm nearer Aysgarth than Hawes, so not too far away). I'm probably happy not to have a guide book cluttered up with bouldering since I'm an old enough fart not to see the necessity for bouldering guides anyway, so I might just order a cheap old guide in the meantime (and I'm sure Fiend will let me look at his shiny new ones if he lures me south over the winter anyway........ ).
Post edited at 12:45
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In reply to Fiend:
I might well be on for that given that some very annoying plantar fasciitis means that I'll be unable or not fit enough to do much proper winter climbing!
> ............for when I try to drag you down for scary grit slabs over winter.
I might well be on for that given that some very annoying plantar fasciitis means that I'll be unable or not fit enough to do much proper winter climbing!
In reply to Phil West:
I don't generally have that problem. Bloody cheating, whinging dwarves......
> Good for standing on to reach hard-to-reach starting handholds...?
I don't generally have that problem. Bloody cheating, whinging dwarves......
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In reply to Robert Durran:
My final two pennies-worth: DON'T DO IT ROB!!!!
The new guides are great. Far more inspirational, far easier to use, far better action shots, far better history, and as a result of all that far more likely that you'll actually make the effort down to Yorkshire to use them.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are the best guidebooks that have been released in recent years - as such I (apparently) feel quite strongly about it.
My final two pennies-worth: DON'T DO IT ROB!!!!
The new guides are great. Far more inspirational, far easier to use, far better action shots, far better history, and as a result of all that far more likely that you'll actually make the effort down to Yorkshire to use them.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are the best guidebooks that have been released in recent years - as such I (apparently) feel quite strongly about it.
Post edited at 13:08
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In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
Agreed, they're vastly better for almost every crag but slipstones especially. Not sure how a guide to slipstones can be cluttered with bouldering since virtually everything there is a highball boulder problem - something uncluttered by bouldering would be half a page long.
If you really don't care about bouldering guides then you won't need a guidebook, it's not a hard crag to find.
Agreed, they're vastly better for almost every crag but slipstones especially. Not sure how a guide to slipstones can be cluttered with bouldering since virtually everything there is a highball boulder problem - something uncluttered by bouldering would be half a page long.
If you really don't care about bouldering guides then you won't need a guidebook, it's not a hard crag to find.
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In reply to Lemony:
....... and I'm also too old a fart to be bothered with the term "highball"; to me they're just short routes.
> Not sure how a guide to slipstones can be cluttered with bouldering since virtually everything there is a highball boulder problem.
....... and I'm also too old a fart to be bothered with the term "highball"; to me they're just short routes.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Really short routes. Will you be taking HVS 6c for Sulky Little Boys (f7A+)?
Really short routes. Will you be taking HVS 6c for Sulky Little Boys (f7A+)?
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
Mmmm...... but if I buy one volume, I'll probably end up buying both, which will be £40 more than an old guide. But you're probably right, especially if I'm planning to travel south a bit over the winter.
> My final two pennies-worth: DON'T DO IT ROB!!!!
Mmmm...... but if I buy one volume, I'll probably end up buying both, which will be £40 more than an old guide. But you're probably right, especially if I'm planning to travel south a bit over the winter.
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In reply to Lemony:
I said short, not really short (they probably are boulder problems).
f7a+ means very little to me, but if it's 6c, I'll almost certainly be taking absolutely nothing....
> Really short routes.
I said short, not really short (they probably are boulder problems).
> Will you be taking HVS 6c for Sulky Little Boys (f7A+)?
f7a+ means very little to me, but if it's 6c, I'll almost certainly be taking absolutely nothing....
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Slipstones....one mans short route is another's gritstone perfection. Rob is right the books are worth it for reading at home even if you never visit a crag.
I like the two most recent older guides: usable and fun for their time... people soon forget how things have moved on.
Slipstones....one mans short route is another's gritstone perfection. Rob is right the books are worth it for reading at home even if you never visit a crag.
I like the two most recent older guides: usable and fun for their time... people soon forget how things have moved on.
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In reply to Offwidth:
OK, almost feeling psyched now! Shall order the new guide for Slipstones.
What has become of me? I never thought I'd see the day when I'd be driving south over the border with a bouldering mat and a bike in the back of the car.........
> Slipstones....one mans short route is another's gritstone perfection.
OK, almost feeling psyched now! Shall order the new guide for Slipstones.
What has become of me? I never thought I'd see the day when I'd be driving south over the border with a bouldering mat and a bike in the back of the car.........
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In reply to Robert Durran:
why limiti yourself to gritstone?
Plenty of limestone a quicker drive away
why limiti yourself to gritstone?
Plenty of limestone a quicker drive away
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In reply to EdS:
Which venue on the lime would you say is as good for soloing and bouldering as Slippers?
Which venue on the lime would you say is as good for soloing and bouldering as Slippers?
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Agree with the suggestion of the Unknownstones site, on there you'll find a bouldering venue fairly close to Hawes in Thieves Moss with many surrounding limestone venues for good soloing and Gritstone venues to the east. There's also Healaugh to the north east which is a great place for bouldering and soloing, free information on this can be found at the climbonline site, in fact you don't really need to buy any guide though the YMC Grit guides are highly recommended!
Agree with the suggestion of the Unknownstones site, on there you'll find a bouldering venue fairly close to Hawes in Thieves Moss with many surrounding limestone venues for good soloing and Gritstone venues to the east. There's also Healaugh to the north east which is a great place for bouldering and soloing, free information on this can be found at the climbonline site, in fact you don't really need to buy any guide though the YMC Grit guides are highly recommended!
In reply to Offwidth:
I have the new guides, which are great, but I really don't see the problem with the 1989 (?) guide. Wittily written, good historical notes and all the info you need to get to the crag. This is Yorkshire Grit, FFS, not some obscure Alpine valley.
Guisecliffe and Eavestone excepted, obvs.
I have the new guides, which are great, but I really don't see the problem with the 1989 (?) guide. Wittily written, good historical notes and all the info you need to get to the crag. This is Yorkshire Grit, FFS, not some obscure Alpine valley.
Guisecliffe and Eavestone excepted, obvs.
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In reply to Offwidth:
OK but if you're just after routes it means you have to buy two guides instead of one which is a real pest when it would have all fitted (and did!) nicely in one guide.
> 'Cluttered' by some of the best bouldering in Britain, what a nightmare! As excellent as the old YMC guides were, the revamp of the trad coverage to a modern photo topo style is an extensive labour of love: in terms of overall balance of content (routes, problems, usability, history, essays) it's the best and the best value I've yet seen in the UK.
OK but if you're just after routes it means you have to buy two guides instead of one which is a real pest when it would have all fitted (and did!) nicely in one guide.
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
The old guide was bulging at the seams and that was before you added in photo topos, topos for every crag* and some new crags. It would have been a coffee table book...
*I think, I don't have the guide here.
The old guide was bulging at the seams and that was before you added in photo topos, topos for every crag* and some new crags. It would have been a coffee table book...
*I think, I don't have the guide here.
Post edited at 17:20
In reply to Lemony:
I think more space may be taken up with bouldering than routes (could be wrong but that's definitely the impression you get looking at e.g. Almscliff). The old guide was not big, in fact quite nicely sized compared to some you get now. Considering it's a cragging guide, I'm pretty sure it would all have fitted in a larger format.
I think more space may be taken up with bouldering than routes (could be wrong but that's definitely the impression you get looking at e.g. Almscliff). The old guide was not big, in fact quite nicely sized compared to some you get now. Considering it's a cragging guide, I'm pretty sure it would all have fitted in a larger format.
In reply to Robert Durran:
I can't believe no-one has mentioned Healaugh (Crag Willas) ? It may be closer than Slipstones and not to be sniffed at although you wouldn't want to be up there in a blow. It's documented here http://www.climbonline.co.uk/healheugh.htm along with quite a few crags in Swaledale and Wensleydale. Thieves Moss is not particularly handy from Hawes as it's on the 'wrong' side of Ingleborough and is quite limited with a relatively long walk in. You'd be far better off going to Twisleton or Chapel-le-Dale which are a lot closer to drive to and have masses of good soloing and bouldering. Same goes for Raven Scar across the dale from Twisleton although more northerly facing and so probably colder now.
I can't believe no-one has mentioned Healaugh (Crag Willas) ? It may be closer than Slipstones and not to be sniffed at although you wouldn't want to be up there in a blow. It's documented here http://www.climbonline.co.uk/healheugh.htm along with quite a few crags in Swaledale and Wensleydale. Thieves Moss is not particularly handy from Hawes as it's on the 'wrong' side of Ingleborough and is quite limited with a relatively long walk in. You'd be far better off going to Twisleton or Chapel-le-Dale which are a lot closer to drive to and have masses of good soloing and bouldering. Same goes for Raven Scar across the dale from Twisleton although more northerly facing and so probably colder now.
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
I know the books very well: routes get a lot more space despite similar numbers (slightly outnumbered in volume 2). Also quality gets proper space...Roundhill near Slipstones is a good example of lesser bouldering coverage with just over 100 numbered problems with photo topos in 5 pages; Slipstones in contrast gets 23 pages for just over 200 numbered routes and problems (both counts including introductions but excluding action shots).
I know the books very well: routes get a lot more space despite similar numbers (slightly outnumbered in volume 2). Also quality gets proper space...Roundhill near Slipstones is a good example of lesser bouldering coverage with just over 100 numbered problems with photo topos in 5 pages; Slipstones in contrast gets 23 pages for just over 200 numbered routes and problems (both counts including introductions but excluding action shots).
In reply to Offwidth:
OK, fair enough. So you think the routes wouldn't have all fitted in one guide?
OK, fair enough. So you think the routes wouldn't have all fitted in one guide?
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
They could have but it would have been shit in usability and descriptive terms. The current guides are a proper celebration of the rock as well as the guide function (and including the bouldering, the best of which is really outstanding). The two previous guides had bouldering as well.
They could have but it would have been shit in usability and descriptive terms. The current guides are a proper celebration of the rock as well as the guide function (and including the bouldering, the best of which is really outstanding). The two previous guides had bouldering as well.
Post edited at 19:47
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New YMC Guidebook now ordered. Thanks all for the advice. I hope both Slipstones and book live up to the hype!
In reply to Robert Durran:
Hey Rob, did you ever make it to Slipstones in the end?
By chance I ended up there on Sunday, forgotten quite how good the rock is there (and how stern some of the grades are). Still, lovely spot...
Hey Rob, did you ever make it to Slipstones in the end?
By chance I ended up there on Sunday, forgotten quite how good the rock is there (and how stern some of the grades are). Still, lovely spot...
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
It's not till next week. New guide arrived yesterday and it looks great (the book and the climbing!) Also other nice looking places to visit like Roova. Looking forward to it and hoping the weather good.
> Hey Rob, did you ever make it to Slipstones in the end?
It's not till next week. New guide arrived yesterday and it looks great (the book and the climbing!) Also other nice looking places to visit like Roova. Looking forward to it and hoping the weather good.
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In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
Ended up having three afternoon visits to Slipstones. Lovely spot. Once I'd reacquainted myself with gritstone, I really enjoyed the micro-routes - real quality, but was pretty underwhelmed by the bouldering at the right hand end (but then I'm very easily underwhelmed by bouldering in general!). Some of the landings were off putting, even with a mat. And is f6a meant to feel like solid 6b (not familiar with these bouldering grades)........ or am I just crap?
Guidebook excellent too, though the cover seemed rather poor wearing and some pages have fallen out already!
Ended up having three afternoon visits to Slipstones. Lovely spot. Once I'd reacquainted myself with gritstone, I really enjoyed the micro-routes - real quality, but was pretty underwhelmed by the bouldering at the right hand end (but then I'm very easily underwhelmed by bouldering in general!). Some of the landings were off putting, even with a mat. And is f6a meant to feel like solid 6b (not familiar with these bouldering grades)........ or am I just crap?
Guidebook excellent too, though the cover seemed rather poor wearing and some pages have fallen out already!
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Slipstones is the finest gritstone crag in Yorkshire for soloing. I have had many enjoyable sessions soloing there at every time of year. I once tried to see just how many routes and problems I could do there in a day. I managed 40 before I had to call it a day, not due to lack of time but because I'd run out of things I was capable of climbing.
> Ended up having three afternoon visits to Slipstones. Lovely spot. Once I'd reacquainted myself with gritstone, I really enjoyed the micro-routes - real quality,
Slipstones is the finest gritstone crag in Yorkshire for soloing. I have had many enjoyable sessions soloing there at every time of year. I once tried to see just how many routes and problems I could do there in a day. I managed 40 before I had to call it a day, not due to lack of time but because I'd run out of things I was capable of climbing.
In reply to Robert Durran:
A whole discussion of old vs new guides, with no mention of Yorkshire P grades!!
A whole discussion of old vs new guides, with no mention of Yorkshire P grades!!
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