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This is essentially a continuation of this thread: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=648909
I just sent my Latok alpine in for warranty because the hood had started to delaminate. The response I had from Rab was that it was caused by:
...extensive heat damage evident on the outer and inner of the hood. This has most likely occurred during the washing or drying phase where the heat has been set too high...
I dont even own a tumble drier! I've also only washed it a couple of times on low temp in accordance with the care instructions.
It seems as though their 'lifetime warranty' is nothing more than marketing spin.
I feel annoyed, frustrated and thoroughly let down.
I just sent my Latok alpine in for warranty because the hood had started to delaminate. The response I had from Rab was that it was caused by:
...extensive heat damage evident on the outer and inner of the hood. This has most likely occurred during the washing or drying phase where the heat has been set too high...
I dont even own a tumble drier! I've also only washed it a couple of times on low temp in accordance with the care instructions.
It seems as though their 'lifetime warranty' is nothing more than marketing spin.
I feel annoyed, frustrated and thoroughly let down.
27
1
In reply to philip.nh:
I think Rab should consider changing their slogan to 'Rab - for the driest conditions in the world'.
I have a couple of friends with similar problems to you involving Rab waterproofs.
I think Rab should consider changing their slogan to 'Rab - for the driest conditions in the world'.
I have a couple of friends with similar problems to you involving Rab waterproofs.
10
In reply to philip.nh:
Sorry to hear that you had such a similar experience to me. For what it's worth, I did end up having a conversation by email with Rab after that thread in which they sympathized with my experience and offered me a new jacket at a discounted price. Ultimately I decided that the jacket wasn't worth even the lower price they offered me, given my first one lasted a grand total of about 9 months, and I was better off going elsewhere (still looking for a replacement at the moment). Part of me suspects that they were still (politely) blaming me for for poor maintenance and operating damage control: after all there's no way to actually prove that I had followed the care instructions. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical though. They did at least take the time to answer a number of questions I had, even though I wasn't necessarily satisfied with the answers they gave.
It definitely appears as though there are real longevity issues with their waterproofs, the cost of which is being borne by their customers. Weirdly my hardshell trousers, also Rab, have not delaminated despite being subject to exactly the same use and care as the jacket, as well as experiencing much more exposure to the kind of dirt and wear that I'd have thought might cause it!
Sorry to hear that you had such a similar experience to me. For what it's worth, I did end up having a conversation by email with Rab after that thread in which they sympathized with my experience and offered me a new jacket at a discounted price. Ultimately I decided that the jacket wasn't worth even the lower price they offered me, given my first one lasted a grand total of about 9 months, and I was better off going elsewhere (still looking for a replacement at the moment). Part of me suspects that they were still (politely) blaming me for for poor maintenance and operating damage control: after all there's no way to actually prove that I had followed the care instructions. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical though. They did at least take the time to answer a number of questions I had, even though I wasn't necessarily satisfied with the answers they gave.
It definitely appears as though there are real longevity issues with their waterproofs, the cost of which is being borne by their customers. Weirdly my hardshell trousers, also Rab, have not delaminated despite being subject to exactly the same use and care as the jacket, as well as experiencing much more exposure to the kind of dirt and wear that I'd have thought might cause it!
8
In reply to ChrisH89:
What really works me up is how in both these cases Rab can cite customer damage and we have no way to argue it. I have disputed the "extensive heat damage" claim, but like you say, it is not possible to prove it either way (unless they want to come to my house and see the lack of tumble drier!).
In this scenario I can hand-on-heart say that i have not caused heat damage to the jacket and that some other factor must be the cause of delamination. But unless Rab reverse their decision I will have no other choice but to buy a new jacket leaving me out of pocket by hundreds of pounds.
I would expect that with average/casual use you should be able to get 5-10 years out of a £200+ jacket, not 3 years. The return on investment is just too low when the lifetime guarantee is not honored.
What really works me up is how in both these cases Rab can cite customer damage and we have no way to argue it. I have disputed the "extensive heat damage" claim, but like you say, it is not possible to prove it either way (unless they want to come to my house and see the lack of tumble drier!).
In this scenario I can hand-on-heart say that i have not caused heat damage to the jacket and that some other factor must be the cause of delamination. But unless Rab reverse their decision I will have no other choice but to buy a new jacket leaving me out of pocket by hundreds of pounds.
I would expect that with average/casual use you should be able to get 5-10 years out of a £200+ jacket, not 3 years. The return on investment is just too low when the lifetime guarantee is not honored.
13
In reply to philip.nh:
Agreed, it's a hugely frustrating situation to end up in. I'll be sure to only buy from companies with solid reputations for aftercare in future - I've heard ME and Patagonia are particularly good in this regard so may look into them.
Agreed, it's a hugely frustrating situation to end up in. I'll be sure to only buy from companies with solid reputations for aftercare in future - I've heard ME and Patagonia are particularly good in this regard so may look into them.
4
In reply to ChrisH89:
Update:
Apparently the cause of delamination is no longer "extensive heat damage"...
Now it's as a result of:
1) damage from a (dirty) rucksack that has been rubbing the fabric
2) contact with an alcohol based product (such as aftershave) or insect repellents such as Deet
yeah no....
1) Wearing a rucksack is a valid reason for an alpine hardshell to deteriorate?
2) Nope. neither of those apply.
this is just ridiculous.
Update:
Apparently the cause of delamination is no longer "extensive heat damage"...
Now it's as a result of:
1) damage from a (dirty) rucksack that has been rubbing the fabric
2) contact with an alcohol based product (such as aftershave) or insect repellents such as Deet
yeah no....
1) Wearing a rucksack is a valid reason for an alpine hardshell to deteriorate?
2) Nope. neither of those apply.
this is just ridiculous.
12
In reply to philip.nh:
You mean to say you don't regularly clean and lubricate your rucksack to avoid it causing friction damage to your coat?
Well that's your own silly fault then isn't it.
You mean to say you don't regularly clean and lubricate your rucksack to avoid it causing friction damage to your coat?
Well that's your own silly fault then isn't it.
20
In reply to philip.nh:
I think that customer service like this is bang out of order. I've had a similarly frustrating experience with another company who, whilst to give them their credit, refunded my jacket after the material parted company with the hem after only a few wears, then refused to pay the return postage costs despite stating that they would on their website.
I had to email them the quote from their returns page before they capitulated, claiming that the wording could be construed that they would refund postage so they would honour the refund. This is what their website states:
"For UK returns, faulty goods and exchanges, ******** will pay the cost of the return shipping.
In all cases, you must obtain a 'proof of postage' from Royal Mail (or whichever carrier you choose to use), as undelivered items cannot be refunded."
After an email conversation they decided:
"Having reviewed the terms of our policy displayed on our website we agree that the wording can be construed as we are willing to refund return postage."
I think explicitly stating something makes it quite easy to "construe" the same.
I won't name the company but they are owned by the Pentland group.
The issue, I believe, is that some of these companies have moved away from niche mountain gear producers into huge corporate monsters where multiple brands are owned. It is very easy then to lose the personal touch.
I would contrast this with recent dealings with Mountain Equipment and the Mountain Boot company who distribute Grivel, both of whom have been spot on.
I will vote with my hard-earned, and continue to buy ME, Scarpa etc and give Rab and the aforementioned company a wide berth from now on.
I think that customer service like this is bang out of order. I've had a similarly frustrating experience with another company who, whilst to give them their credit, refunded my jacket after the material parted company with the hem after only a few wears, then refused to pay the return postage costs despite stating that they would on their website.
I had to email them the quote from their returns page before they capitulated, claiming that the wording could be construed that they would refund postage so they would honour the refund. This is what their website states:
"For UK returns, faulty goods and exchanges, ******** will pay the cost of the return shipping.
In all cases, you must obtain a 'proof of postage' from Royal Mail (or whichever carrier you choose to use), as undelivered items cannot be refunded."
After an email conversation they decided:
"Having reviewed the terms of our policy displayed on our website we agree that the wording can be construed as we are willing to refund return postage."
I think explicitly stating something makes it quite easy to "construe" the same.
I won't name the company but they are owned by the Pentland group.
The issue, I believe, is that some of these companies have moved away from niche mountain gear producers into huge corporate monsters where multiple brands are owned. It is very easy then to lose the personal touch.
I would contrast this with recent dealings with Mountain Equipment and the Mountain Boot company who distribute Grivel, both of whom have been spot on.
I will vote with my hard-earned, and continue to buy ME, Scarpa etc and give Rab and the aforementioned company a wide berth from now on.
7
In reply to ChrisH89:
I had a problem with delamination around a pocket on an arctyrex jacket (sv alpha) after a year of quite extensive use.
They replaced it without query.
The replacement has lasted 9 years (Ok it's a bit battered)
Over the long term it has been a cheap jacket.
Worth considering.
I had a problem with delamination around a pocket on an arctyrex jacket (sv alpha) after a year of quite extensive use.
They replaced it without query.
The replacement has lasted 9 years (Ok it's a bit battered)
Over the long term it has been a cheap jacket.
Worth considering.
15
In reply to philip.nh:
I got the same line about aftershave and deet as an explanation as to why an expensive jacket fell apart after less than a year, and equally it has never come into contact with those kinds of substance. Changing their reasoning as they have with you is bizarre. Surely they would have formally recorded what they believe the reason for the damage was when they inspected the item, so how could that change unless they re-inspected it?
Unfortunately it seems there's very little we can do as consumers beyond voting with our wallets and warning others off.
rogerwebb: thanks for that, Arc'Teryx are definitely another brand I was considering, so good to hear a positive report about post-sale support from them. I would love an Alpha SV, but can't justify the expense right now, although I'm sure you're right about it being a good investment long-term.
I got the same line about aftershave and deet as an explanation as to why an expensive jacket fell apart after less than a year, and equally it has never come into contact with those kinds of substance. Changing their reasoning as they have with you is bizarre. Surely they would have formally recorded what they believe the reason for the damage was when they inspected the item, so how could that change unless they re-inspected it?
Unfortunately it seems there's very little we can do as consumers beyond voting with our wallets and warning others off.
rogerwebb: thanks for that, Arc'Teryx are definitely another brand I was considering, so good to hear a positive report about post-sale support from them. I would love an Alpha SV, but can't justify the expense right now, although I'm sure you're right about it being a good investment long-term.
2
In reply to ChrisH89:
Funnily enough, I bought a new ME Goretex last year and read about the dangers of DEET so I emailed Mountain Equipment prior to lathering up with the stuff on the west highway way this summer. They were very helpful and recommended some Goretex-friendly alternatives which I used instead.
Funnily enough, I bought a new ME Goretex last year and read about the dangers of DEET so I emailed Mountain Equipment prior to lathering up with the stuff on the west highway way this summer. They were very helpful and recommended some Goretex-friendly alternatives which I used instead.
2
In reply to ChrisH89:
For them to just keep coming up with different reasons, all of which put the blame on me is just shady as F.
If "Extensive heat damage", Aftershave, Deet, and backpack rubbing can all result in identical damage to the product then maybe there's another reason... YOUR PRODUCT FAILED!
As Angry Pirate said, we vote with our "hard earned" - and this statement should not be taken lightly. For me, spending £200+ pounds on a jacket is not a quick and easy decision. I do not have these sums of money readily available to I have to save, research and then trust that the item i buy will live up to expectations. In this case, it has not. And to make it worse, Rab seem totally at ease to just come up with more and more reasons why it can only be my fault.
I had a look at my gear this morning and from Rab I have: gaiters, waterproof trousers, softshell and hardshell. That's many hundreds of pounds that I've spent with them and it's clear that I was happy to support a British (originally) company. Unfortunately I feel this is the end of the line. How can I honestly continue parting money with this company? Especially since I find wearing a rucksack a mandatory part of being outdoors!
For them to just keep coming up with different reasons, all of which put the blame on me is just shady as F.
If "Extensive heat damage", Aftershave, Deet, and backpack rubbing can all result in identical damage to the product then maybe there's another reason... YOUR PRODUCT FAILED!
As Angry Pirate said, we vote with our "hard earned" - and this statement should not be taken lightly. For me, spending £200+ pounds on a jacket is not a quick and easy decision. I do not have these sums of money readily available to I have to save, research and then trust that the item i buy will live up to expectations. In this case, it has not. And to make it worse, Rab seem totally at ease to just come up with more and more reasons why it can only be my fault.
I had a look at my gear this morning and from Rab I have: gaiters, waterproof trousers, softshell and hardshell. That's many hundreds of pounds that I've spent with them and it's clear that I was happy to support a British (originally) company. Unfortunately I feel this is the end of the line. How can I honestly continue parting money with this company? Especially since I find wearing a rucksack a mandatory part of being outdoors!
11
1
In reply to ChrisH89:
You can add Patagonia are very good as well, offering repairs/replacements as required. I'd ripped a zip out of a jacket I'd bought second hand off here. I sent it back to them for repair and, as their seamstress was away (6 weeks in the Himalaya at the time) they phoned me to say could they send me a new jacket? So, I got a brand new jacket and my old jacket was repaired and given to one of the staff's mates. Win win!
> rogerwebb: thanks for that, Arc'Teryx are definitely another brand I was considering, so good to hear a positive report about post-sale support from them. I would love an Alpha SV, but can't justify the expense right now, although I'm sure you're right about it being a good investment long-term.
You can add Patagonia are very good as well, offering repairs/replacements as required. I'd ripped a zip out of a jacket I'd bought second hand off here. I sent it back to them for repair and, as their seamstress was away (6 weeks in the Himalaya at the time) they phoned me to say could they send me a new jacket? So, I got a brand new jacket and my old jacket was repaired and given to one of the staff's mates. Win win!
Post edited at 09:25
7
In reply to philip.nh:
Hi all,
Sorry for coming in late on this one, this thread escaped my attention in/around yesterday's Borrowdale Guidebook controversy.
I'll chase this up with Rab today and see if we can get a formal response, it'd be good to know their thoughts.
Rob
Hi all,
Sorry for coming in late on this one, this thread escaped my attention in/around yesterday's Borrowdale Guidebook controversy.
I'll chase this up with Rab today and see if we can get a formal response, it'd be good to know their thoughts.
Rob
10
In reply to ChrisH89:
You might like to have a look at SportPursuit for discounted Arcteryx jackets. They don't have Alpha SVs at the moment, but they do have a slightly bewildering selection of similar jackets. Still not exactly cheap, but I bought an Alpha at a PlanetFear sale at the Kendal Film Festival a few years ago and it feels bombproof, with no signs of wear.
> rogerwebb: thanks for that, Arc'Teryx are definitely another brand I was considering, so good to hear a positive report about post-sale support from them. I would love an Alpha SV, but can't justify the expense right now, although I'm sure you're right about it being a good investment long-term.
You might like to have a look at SportPursuit for discounted Arcteryx jackets. They don't have Alpha SVs at the moment, but they do have a slightly bewildering selection of similar jackets. Still not exactly cheap, but I bought an Alpha at a PlanetFear sale at the Kendal Film Festival a few years ago and it feels bombproof, with no signs of wear.
In reply to philip.nh:
Gutting when you get service like this, especially when you see "lifetime warranty" etc stamped allover product tags. Clearly means nothing.
Thanks for sharing though - always good to have an idea of how companies treat customers who have a problem; the true test of their customer service. Looks like Rab have become one to avoid by the recent threads.
If your looking for other brands, I've always had good service and ME and my Ogre jacket is still going strong.
Keela were also good once upon a time when I had one of their jackets and send it back with a problem.
cheers,
Stu
Gutting when you get service like this, especially when you see "lifetime warranty" etc stamped allover product tags. Clearly means nothing.
Thanks for sharing though - always good to have an idea of how companies treat customers who have a problem; the true test of their customer service. Looks like Rab have become one to avoid by the recent threads.
If your looking for other brands, I've always had good service and ME and my Ogre jacket is still going strong.
Keela were also good once upon a time when I had one of their jackets and send it back with a problem.
cheers,
Stu
5
In reply to StuDoig:
To continue to praise 'good' customer relations, I have had impeccable after sales services from Marmot, Thermarest and Exped (or their designated UK agents....thank you Lyon Equipment). Friends have also had top class responses from PHD.
Unfortunately from personal experience I also cannot recommend Rab, and am now trying to avoid any of their products where ever possible
To continue to praise 'good' customer relations, I have had impeccable after sales services from Marmot, Thermarest and Exped (or their designated UK agents....thank you Lyon Equipment). Friends have also had top class responses from PHD.
Unfortunately from personal experience I also cannot recommend Rab, and am now trying to avoid any of their products where ever possible
Post edited at 11:55
1
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
They better come up with a good one, they're losing customers hand over fist here!
I had great service off them with a pair of sleeping bags, that was about 25 years ago though.
> I'll chase this up with Rab today and see if we can get a formal response, it'd be good to know their thoughts.
They better come up with a good one, they're losing customers hand over fist here!
I had great service off them with a pair of sleeping bags, that was about 25 years ago though.
2
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
I actually bought a Rab jacket a few days ago and it's sitting there with the tags still attached. I'm watching this thread with interest as it could be the deciding factor whether or not I exercise my right to return it within the 30 day period.
> Hi all,
> Sorry for coming in late on this one, this thread escaped my attention in/around yesterday's Borrowdale Guidebook controversy.
> I'll chase this up with Rab today and see if we can get a formal response, it'd be good to know their thoughts.
> Rob
I actually bought a Rab jacket a few days ago and it's sitting there with the tags still attached. I'm watching this thread with interest as it could be the deciding factor whether or not I exercise my right to return it within the 30 day period.
5
In reply to Glyno:
Latest response from Rab:
Obviously all of our outdoor jackets are designed to be used in conjunction with a rucksack as we realise that the majority of users will be using one. The main issue with your item is that where the rucksack has been has been in contact with the fabric and has been moving rather than stable. This in conjunction with the dirt and grime is potentially the main reason why the lower rear has delaminated through use. The eVent fabric does need to be cleaned frequently as stated on the care label and if it is maintained we would expect to last somewhere in the region of five to eight years depending on usage.
Any my reply:
As far as I am concerned I have used it appropriately and in the manner for which I would expect such a jacket ('alpine' hardshell) to be used.
To respond to your previous points I have:
- Never tumble dried or washed at a high temperature;
- I do not wear aftershave when i go hiking;
- I do not wear deet;
- My rucksack is not dirty or filthy;
- I always use the waist strap of my rucksack which would prevent excess movement.
The reasons cited for delamination are largely different to each other so is it not possible that there could be other reasons too, such as a failure of the fabric?
I cannot part with more money to repair this jacket given that I do not believe I have misused or mistreated it. I cannot be confident that other parts of it will not just fail in the same manner.
I would request that you collectively reassess this one last time and rule out for certain any possible manufacturing fault. If your opinion is still that the jacket has been damaged through my own use then I request that you return it to the address below in the exact condition that you received it.
Latest response from Rab:
Obviously all of our outdoor jackets are designed to be used in conjunction with a rucksack as we realise that the majority of users will be using one. The main issue with your item is that where the rucksack has been has been in contact with the fabric and has been moving rather than stable. This in conjunction with the dirt and grime is potentially the main reason why the lower rear has delaminated through use. The eVent fabric does need to be cleaned frequently as stated on the care label and if it is maintained we would expect to last somewhere in the region of five to eight years depending on usage.
Any my reply:
As far as I am concerned I have used it appropriately and in the manner for which I would expect such a jacket ('alpine' hardshell) to be used.
To respond to your previous points I have:
- Never tumble dried or washed at a high temperature;
- I do not wear aftershave when i go hiking;
- I do not wear deet;
- My rucksack is not dirty or filthy;
- I always use the waist strap of my rucksack which would prevent excess movement.
The reasons cited for delamination are largely different to each other so is it not possible that there could be other reasons too, such as a failure of the fabric?
I cannot part with more money to repair this jacket given that I do not believe I have misused or mistreated it. I cannot be confident that other parts of it will not just fail in the same manner.
I would request that you collectively reassess this one last time and rule out for certain any possible manufacturing fault. If your opinion is still that the jacket has been damaged through my own use then I request that you return it to the address below in the exact condition that you received it.
10
In reply to philip.nh:
Good luck. Your story echos my own. They wanted to charge me postage for the return of a jacket I returned (at my cost) to them. Rab will never get another penny from me.
Good luck. Your story echos my own. They wanted to charge me postage for the return of a jacket I returned (at my cost) to them. Rab will never get another penny from me.
6
In reply to philip.nh:
I've had excellent customer service from Arcteryx, Patagonia and Grivel. But none of them come close to Rapha (expensive high end British cycling kit) - had a problem with some socks : new pair arrived in the post the next day + a gift voucher to compensate me for the inconvenience! Now that's how to treat your customers. Sounds like Rab might want to contact them & ask for some lessons!
I've had excellent customer service from Arcteryx, Patagonia and Grivel. But none of them come close to Rapha (expensive high end British cycling kit) - had a problem with some socks : new pair arrived in the post the next day + a gift voucher to compensate me for the inconvenience! Now that's how to treat your customers. Sounds like Rab might want to contact them & ask for some lessons!
3
In reply to 99ster:
I imagine being Rapha they price of the original socks was not negligible? For the price of lots Rapha gear I would hope it would come with a personal butler to help you put your new clothes on!
> But none of them come close to Rapha (expensive high end British cycling kit) - had a problem with some socks : new pair arrived in the post the next day + a gift voucher to compensate me for the inconvenience!
I imagine being Rapha they price of the original socks was not negligible? For the price of lots Rapha gear I would hope it would come with a personal butler to help you put your new clothes on!
6
In reply to TobyA:
One generally employs a valet to attend to that sort of thing.
> a personal butler to help you put your new clothes on!
One generally employs a valet to attend to that sort of thing.
5
In reply to philip.nh:
There seem to be lots of good customer service experiences but none with UK companies. I mention this after having a weekly Friday lunchtime catch-up with a friend who had words with Exposure (high end, high price cycle lights) who's attitude is best summed up with "fu*k you give us more money"
And people wonder why the UK has Raleigh and Dawes and the US has Trek, Specialized and a whole host of other global brands.
There seem to be lots of good customer service experiences but none with UK companies. I mention this after having a weekly Friday lunchtime catch-up with a friend who had words with Exposure (high end, high price cycle lights) who's attitude is best summed up with "fu*k you give us more money"
And people wonder why the UK has Raleigh and Dawes and the US has Trek, Specialized and a whole host of other global brands.
1
In reply to philip.nh:
My GF is getting herself a new hardshell this next couple of weeks and we've narrowed it down to 3 options. Looks like the Rab will have to drop off the list. Real shame a company with this history is dealing with customers like this.
My GF is getting herself a new hardshell this next couple of weeks and we've narrowed it down to 3 options. Looks like the Rab will have to drop off the list. Real shame a company with this history is dealing with customers like this.
1
In reply to philip.nh:
Got hypothermia on the Ben after a Rab Latok proved to be as waterproof as a tea bag!
Rab agreed it was faulty and replaced it. The new one was leaking within months,it had only really been used on the school run.
Rab gear is over priced junk!
Got hypothermia on the Ben after a Rab Latok proved to be as waterproof as a tea bag!
Rab agreed it was faulty and replaced it. The new one was leaking within months,it had only really been used on the school run.
Rab gear is over priced junk!
8
1
In reply to philip.nh:
Sorry to hear about your experience with Rab. Another comment to support Patagonia customer services though.
I have an R1 hoody that had had some heavy use for about a year and the zip began to detach from the fleece fabric. Annoyed at this happening after spending over £100 on a fleece, I contacted them by email with pictures and asked for a replacement. They emailed me back saying they would replace the fleece if I wished but would I consider sending it to them for repair instead as this is more in keeping with their views on the environment, reuse/recycle etc. I couldn't argue with this point, so I did and they did. It's still going strong some years later.
Sorry to hear about your experience with Rab. Another comment to support Patagonia customer services though.
I have an R1 hoody that had had some heavy use for about a year and the zip began to detach from the fleece fabric. Annoyed at this happening after spending over £100 on a fleece, I contacted them by email with pictures and asked for a replacement. They emailed me back saying they would replace the fleece if I wished but would I consider sending it to them for repair instead as this is more in keeping with their views on the environment, reuse/recycle etc. I couldn't argue with this point, so I did and they did. It's still going strong some years later.
6
In reply to philip.nh: My Rab Latok wore out in no time. First it went at the shoulders then the tape started peeling off the inside.
Their vapour rise kit is brilliant but I can't see myself buying a waterproof from them again.
Their vapour rise kit is brilliant but I can't see myself buying a waterproof from them again.
1
In reply to philip.nh:
I have to agree with issues with Rab. I was after a softshell for touring, and settled on a Rab as l thought it best met my needs. It had two weeks in total, and the plastic cuff-retainers separated after a Nikwax Techwash. Not impressed. It was factory repaired, but on eBay quickly afterwards. No more Rab for me.
I am a self-confessed swivel-eyed fanatic when it comes to the Cult of the Boney Bird, and l know you have to do over a Post Office to afford any of their gear, but Arc'teryx's customer service when it comes to repairing their gear is embarrassingly good. I feel guilty using it, they're so helpful. I've had a few bits of gear at their repair centre in Switzerland, and every time they've been absolutely superb.
I have to agree with issues with Rab. I was after a softshell for touring, and settled on a Rab as l thought it best met my needs. It had two weeks in total, and the plastic cuff-retainers separated after a Nikwax Techwash. Not impressed. It was factory repaired, but on eBay quickly afterwards. No more Rab for me.
I am a self-confessed swivel-eyed fanatic when it comes to the Cult of the Boney Bird, and l know you have to do over a Post Office to afford any of their gear, but Arc'teryx's customer service when it comes to repairing their gear is embarrassingly good. I feel guilty using it, they're so helpful. I've had a few bits of gear at their repair centre in Switzerland, and every time they've been absolutely superb.
In reply to philip.nh:
I had a Latok jacket, original version. Leaked like a sieve after about 3 months. I used it daily for 2 weeks in the rain. Dried out every night by being hung up at room temperature and the apparent reason it leaked? Using it too much in the rain!!!!!!
On the plus side, they have fixed my Peak Smock twice free of charge but I wouldn't buy another waterproof from them.
I had a Latok jacket, original version. Leaked like a sieve after about 3 months. I used it daily for 2 weeks in the rain. Dried out every night by being hung up at room temperature and the apparent reason it leaked? Using it too much in the rain!!!!!!
On the plus side, they have fixed my Peak Smock twice free of charge but I wouldn't buy another waterproof from them.
3
In reply to philip.nh:
Never bought any Rab as the fit has always been monumentally awful on me, but can't see myself doing it any time soon now. Can't believe they haven't commented on this thread yet!
Never bought any Rab as the fit has always been monumentally awful on me, but can't see myself doing it any time soon now. Can't believe they haven't commented on this thread yet!
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
Too busy making marketing videos, apparently.
> Never bought any Rab as the fit has always been monumentally awful on me, but can't see myself doing it any time soon now. Can't believe they haven't commented on this thread yet!
Too busy making marketing videos, apparently.
7
In reply to Glyno:
ok, I'm not prepared to be arguing with Rab/Equip after the first proper downpour. The jacket has gone back for a refund.
...a decision made all the easier having seen a great deal on an Arc'teryx Zeta
> I actually bought a Rab jacket a few days ago and it's sitting there with the tags still attached. I'm watching this thread with interest as it could be the deciding factor whether or not I exercise my right to return it within the 30 day period.
ok, I'm not prepared to be arguing with Rab/Equip after the first proper downpour. The jacket has gone back for a refund.
...a decision made all the easier having seen a great deal on an Arc'teryx Zeta
2
In reply to Roberttaylor:
Cant comment on Rab waterproof jacket, but was disappointed with the life of Gore bike trousers.
Rab fixed my zip on my vapour rise guide jacket for free after several hard years of use.
Seems a lots of new waterproof lightweight fabrics are dubious
Cant comment on Rab waterproof jacket, but was disappointed with the life of Gore bike trousers.
Rab fixed my zip on my vapour rise guide jacket for free after several hard years of use.
Seems a lots of new waterproof lightweight fabrics are dubious
In reply to philip.nh:
My pennyworth. Some Rab kit is an awful fit, other kit is just right. I've still got Rab kit with 'Made in Sheffield' on the label. I think that, like a number of manufacturers, the shift to China has not been fully successful. Google 'Hunter Wellies' as an example. Is it quality control? If have a (fairly recent) Karrimor eVent jacket bought for 90 pounds and it is still waterproof after 4 years use so the fabric is OK. Is there any significance in the fact that Montane have now shifted from eVent to Goretex?
My pennyworth. Some Rab kit is an awful fit, other kit is just right. I've still got Rab kit with 'Made in Sheffield' on the label. I think that, like a number of manufacturers, the shift to China has not been fully successful. Google 'Hunter Wellies' as an example. Is it quality control? If have a (fairly recent) Karrimor eVent jacket bought for 90 pounds and it is still waterproof after 4 years use so the fabric is OK. Is there any significance in the fact that Montane have now shifted from eVent to Goretex?
2
In reply to ChrisH89:
Well, I will say that I contacted ME recently about a zip problem with a jacket (2 years old) and they were pretty helpful and said they would repair or replace it. In the end it turned out I was being an idiot and there was nothing wrong with it, but their response was good.
> Agreed, it's a hugely frustrating situation to end up in. I'll be sure to only buy from companies with solid reputations for aftercare in future - I've heard ME and Patagonia are particularly good in this regard so may look into them.
Well, I will say that I contacted ME recently about a zip problem with a jacket (2 years old) and they were pretty helpful and said they would repair or replace it. In the end it turned out I was being an idiot and there was nothing wrong with it, but their response was good.
1
In reply to philip.nh:
The Rab event Latok alpine I had was ok for 2 years an then started to leak through the fabric. I didn't bother sending it back and wore it as a summer shower proof. The Zips gone now making it useless except for a crap batman/vampire fancy dress cape.
A 1995 Rab Glacier Down Jacket. Utter class. Used and abused and now the old dog is wearing it in her grave.
A 2008 vapour rise jacket. Love it.
The Rab event Latok alpine I had was ok for 2 years an then started to leak through the fabric. I didn't bother sending it back and wore it as a summer shower proof. The Zips gone now making it useless except for a crap batman/vampire fancy dress cape.
A 1995 Rab Glacier Down Jacket. Utter class. Used and abused and now the old dog is wearing it in her grave.
A 2008 vapour rise jacket. Love it.
1
In reply to Indy:
Mountain Equipment Regularly get praise on here by the way.
> There seem to be lots of good customer service experiences but none with UK companies. I mention this after having a weekly Friday lunchtime catch-up with a friend who had words with Exposure (high end, high price cycle lights) who's attitude is best summed up with "fu*k you give us more money"
> And people wonder why the UK has Raleigh and Dawes and the US has Trek, Specialized and a whole host of other global brands.
Mountain Equipment Regularly get praise on here by the way.
2
In reply to Nigel Coe:
Once I receive it back I'm inclined to pursue either SoGA through the ombudsman or small claims court. I've nothing to lose.
Once I receive it back I'm inclined to pursue either SoGA through the ombudsman or small claims court. I've nothing to lose.
3
In reply to philip.nh:
Can anyone tell me if venting in this manner helps...do the companies fold and offer you the planet and stars?
I worked in the outdoor industry (education and distribution..dare I say it... aftersales) for over 15 years and have being going up hills for the last 40+. I find these emails unhelpful as one person complains and then many jump on the band wagon, however, where are all those Rab people keeping the company solvent? There must be some, can we not hear the other side of the story.
Just to offer a few points based on my professional experiences:
Warranties and guarantees, they cover defects in manufacturing, whatever you are lead to think, they do not cover wear or damage.
Event is covered by the manufacturer (Rab) as are all fabrics bar those produced by WL Gore, where you will get the manufactures and material manufacturer's warranty. So in the case of delaminating, two bites of the cherry although Gore fabrics do not delaminate so readily these days (they are just ahead of the curve and spend lots on testing and QA).
Arctyrex use the Stella affect - reassuringly expensive. They just charge more and use the additional funds to cover warranty costs giving you all (well those that can afford it) the feel good factor of the warranty umbrella.
Lifetime means the life of the product, not you! And if you go out and rip your shiny new jacket on day one, that is the lifetime, it is highly, nay very unlikely to be a defect in the product and therefore not covered under the warranty.
Most people buy via a third party (shop, internet retailer) remember the organisation that sold it to you is the one liable under the Sales of Goods Act (as amended). The warranty, that is the responsibility of the European Distributor or manufacture (as long as we are in Europe), these parties normally ask the third party to administer this and 99% of the time shops do a really, really poor job of this. If the customer gets what they want, then the third party takes the glory, if it is bad news then it must be the distributor or manufacture and they are such a load on no nothing wa@*£%$s.
As said on here before, build a relationship with a good shop which will lead to good service and maybe a few discounts in the future.
With regards to Rab, on this occasion they really have shot themselves in the foot as they have made presumptions and allegations (heat, insect repellent, after shave, Etc.), in rejecting the claim, they should simply have reported that the damage was not a manufacturing defect and therefore not covered by the warranty.
Someone said in here that companies don't make kit for the hill but are pandering to the high street. What would you say to your boss if he/she said we are not going to try and make a profit and you can forget your pay rise? However I totally agree, you will not convince me that a waterproof zip is a suitable replacement for a storm flap on the front of a jacket, no really it's not in the UK. Or all these cheep boots with Gore liners rather than a steady away leather boot that is far superior or those fancy must have rock shoes that is like giving a formula one car to a learner driver, destined for a crash. The market gets what it thinks it wants, not what it needs... the power of advertising.
Finally to all of the complainers, if you buy remotely via you digital device at a bargain (?) price, standby for poor service. However, when it all goes wrong and you really feel that you have a case, calm down, no really, calm down. Consider your issue and then make a sensible claim and if necessary be prepared to go legal.
Personally on the jacket, scrap it if you need to, buy an non Rab one and go and enjoy it as the hills are far better for the soul that getting wound up by this stuff...
Life is too short.
Can anyone tell me if venting in this manner helps...do the companies fold and offer you the planet and stars?
I worked in the outdoor industry (education and distribution..dare I say it... aftersales) for over 15 years and have being going up hills for the last 40+. I find these emails unhelpful as one person complains and then many jump on the band wagon, however, where are all those Rab people keeping the company solvent? There must be some, can we not hear the other side of the story.
Just to offer a few points based on my professional experiences:
Warranties and guarantees, they cover defects in manufacturing, whatever you are lead to think, they do not cover wear or damage.
Event is covered by the manufacturer (Rab) as are all fabrics bar those produced by WL Gore, where you will get the manufactures and material manufacturer's warranty. So in the case of delaminating, two bites of the cherry although Gore fabrics do not delaminate so readily these days (they are just ahead of the curve and spend lots on testing and QA).
Arctyrex use the Stella affect - reassuringly expensive. They just charge more and use the additional funds to cover warranty costs giving you all (well those that can afford it) the feel good factor of the warranty umbrella.
Lifetime means the life of the product, not you! And if you go out and rip your shiny new jacket on day one, that is the lifetime, it is highly, nay very unlikely to be a defect in the product and therefore not covered under the warranty.
Most people buy via a third party (shop, internet retailer) remember the organisation that sold it to you is the one liable under the Sales of Goods Act (as amended). The warranty, that is the responsibility of the European Distributor or manufacture (as long as we are in Europe), these parties normally ask the third party to administer this and 99% of the time shops do a really, really poor job of this. If the customer gets what they want, then the third party takes the glory, if it is bad news then it must be the distributor or manufacture and they are such a load on no nothing wa@*£%$s.
As said on here before, build a relationship with a good shop which will lead to good service and maybe a few discounts in the future.
With regards to Rab, on this occasion they really have shot themselves in the foot as they have made presumptions and allegations (heat, insect repellent, after shave, Etc.), in rejecting the claim, they should simply have reported that the damage was not a manufacturing defect and therefore not covered by the warranty.
Someone said in here that companies don't make kit for the hill but are pandering to the high street. What would you say to your boss if he/she said we are not going to try and make a profit and you can forget your pay rise? However I totally agree, you will not convince me that a waterproof zip is a suitable replacement for a storm flap on the front of a jacket, no really it's not in the UK. Or all these cheep boots with Gore liners rather than a steady away leather boot that is far superior or those fancy must have rock shoes that is like giving a formula one car to a learner driver, destined for a crash. The market gets what it thinks it wants, not what it needs... the power of advertising.
Finally to all of the complainers, if you buy remotely via you digital device at a bargain (?) price, standby for poor service. However, when it all goes wrong and you really feel that you have a case, calm down, no really, calm down. Consider your issue and then make a sensible claim and if necessary be prepared to go legal.
Personally on the jacket, scrap it if you need to, buy an non Rab one and go and enjoy it as the hills are far better for the soul that getting wound up by this stuff...
Life is too short.
18
11
3
In reply to philip.nh:
I've always considered Rab to be a good company, and have a Rab sleeping bag which is excellent - but I bought that many many years ago. This thread is filling me with alarm, particularly Rab's failure to comment in it. I am also looking to buy a new waterproof soon and in the light of the comments here I have removed Rab from my list of possible manufacturers for this or any other products. I have spent hundreds of pounds with them over the past, and it's a shame that it's come to this.
I've always considered Rab to be a good company, and have a Rab sleeping bag which is excellent - but I bought that many many years ago. This thread is filling me with alarm, particularly Rab's failure to comment in it. I am also looking to buy a new waterproof soon and in the light of the comments here I have removed Rab from my list of possible manufacturers for this or any other products. I have spent hundreds of pounds with them over the past, and it's a shame that it's come to this.
1
1
In reply to Leearma:
When I worked in retail, we stocked gear from manufacturers whose products were well designed and also whose aftersales was excellent.
There are threads out there praising good customer service, though not for Rab. I wonder why?
Rab has had issues with Event for years now. A mate went through two Rab waterproof jackets back in 2008 which leaked from the get go. Rab did replace them under warranty but then they were pretty much new.
I'm all for companies trying different fabrics but they need to be prepared for losses due go returns if it turns out to be a duck. I am left wondering why Rab haven't moved to Goretex. Could it be Gore wouldn't grant a license?
I don't think anyone has said that, but you are correct, companies have move towards the fashion end of the outdoor market but that is no excuse for the mountain-oriented products failing. North Face manage to keep both markets afloat.
I'm not sure we know that the OP did buy remotely at a bargain price. That said, we live in an online age and shopping has moved on. It is hard not to compare prices. I know I do, but I do make sure to buy from companies I know and trust even if it means paying a few quid more. My most recent issue was buying direct from the manufacturer's web store and it was obvious that the customer service was an afterthought when the email reply contained [insert brand here] blanks that they forgot to fill in. But this is beside the point, if gear is faulty then it should be sorted. If a jacket wears with rucksack use and is marketed as a mountain coat then it is not "fit for purpose" under the SOGA (as amended). The retailer should be sorting this but the manufacturer should be supporting them and take it on the chin. Rab are not bargain basement gear. Mountain Equipment are competitors pricewise and have much better customer support. Decathlon are much cheaper and yet have decent after sales.
The fact that Rab haven't commented yet is quite telling.
> Can anyone tell me if venting in this manner helps...do the companies fold and offer you the planet and stars?
Like you, I worked in the outdoor industry for years and I always remember what my boss used to quote "a happy customer will tell two people; an unhappy one will tell ten". I think this is even more true now with social media, as this thread and others like them show.When I worked in retail, we stocked gear from manufacturers whose products were well designed and also whose aftersales was excellent.
> I worked in the outdoor industry (education and distribution..dare I say it... aftersales) for over 15 years and have being going up hills for the last 40+. I find these emails unhelpful as one person complains and then many jump on the band wagon, however, where are all those Rab people keeping the company solvent? There must be some, can we not hear the other side of the story.
There are threads out there praising good customer service, though not for Rab. I wonder why?
> Event is covered by the manufacturer (Rab) as are all fabrics bar those produced by WL Gore, where you will get the manufactures and material manufacturer's warranty. So in the case of delaminating, two bites of the cherry although Gore fabrics do not delaminate so readily these days (they are just ahead of the curve and spend lots on testing and QA).
Rab has had issues with Event for years now. A mate went through two Rab waterproof jackets back in 2008 which leaked from the get go. Rab did replace them under warranty but then they were pretty much new.
I'm all for companies trying different fabrics but they need to be prepared for losses due go returns if it turns out to be a duck. I am left wondering why Rab haven't moved to Goretex. Could it be Gore wouldn't grant a license?
> Someone said in here that companies don't make kit for the hill but are pandering to the high street.
I don't think anyone has said that, but you are correct, companies have move towards the fashion end of the outdoor market but that is no excuse for the mountain-oriented products failing. North Face manage to keep both markets afloat.
> Finally to all of the complainers, if you buy remotely via you digital device at a bargain (?) price, standby for poor service.
I'm not sure we know that the OP did buy remotely at a bargain price. That said, we live in an online age and shopping has moved on. It is hard not to compare prices. I know I do, but I do make sure to buy from companies I know and trust even if it means paying a few quid more. My most recent issue was buying direct from the manufacturer's web store and it was obvious that the customer service was an afterthought when the email reply contained [insert brand here] blanks that they forgot to fill in. But this is beside the point, if gear is faulty then it should be sorted. If a jacket wears with rucksack use and is marketed as a mountain coat then it is not "fit for purpose" under the SOGA (as amended). The retailer should be sorting this but the manufacturer should be supporting them and take it on the chin. Rab are not bargain basement gear. Mountain Equipment are competitors pricewise and have much better customer support. Decathlon are much cheaper and yet have decent after sales.
The fact that Rab haven't commented yet is quite telling.
7
In reply to Indy:
Berghaus were excellent. I had a waterproof develop pinholes on just one panel, and not in an area where wear would be expected to occur. The jacket was a year old and was immediately replaced. The new one is still going strong 4 years later.
> There seem to be lots of good customer service experiences but none with UK companies.
Berghaus were excellent. I had a waterproof develop pinholes on just one panel, and not in an area where wear would be expected to occur. The jacket was a year old and was immediately replaced. The new one is still going strong 4 years later.
1
In reply to angry pirate:
Thanks Angry Pirate
If I had known that my comment was going to be dissected in such a manner I might have put a little more work into it...story of my life.
But in response to your response, my post was a general post... not specific to the opening post but related to the thread, so I have replied in the same manner, note I'm not in a position to respond after this as I have to put my outdoor toys away and get ready for the week ahead.
When I worked in retail, we stocked gear from manufacturers whose products were well designed and also whose aftersales was excellent.
You quoted my question but never answered it... not sure what to with that one
There are threads out there praising good customer service, though not for Rab. I wonder why?
Maybe folk can't be bothered, regardless of what you think, people buy Rab products and most must be happy with their purchases or retailers would not stock it and customers would not buy it. I personally own two pieces of Rab stuff, firstly a pair of gaiters, a present, complete gash mind but I wear them on occasions to save the wear on the ones I like. Secondly a pertex windproof, fantastic, long standing, well faded, repaired and much loved piece, if they were making them now I would buy one for all my friends. I personally don't see them as a waterproof company but that is an age thing, when I got excited about gear, they made very good down and pertex products as suggested by others on this thread. My point being that this selection of posts is not a true reflection of Rab customers, so read it, consider it and put it into the mix when buying, if buying.
Rab has had issues with Event for years now. A mate went through two Rab waterproof jackets back in 2008 which leaked from the get go. Rab did replace them under warranty but then they were pretty much new.
I'm all for companies trying different fabrics but they need to be prepared for losses due go returns if it turns out to be a duck. I am left wondering why Rab haven't moved to Goretex. Could it be Gore wouldn't grant a license?
Again I don't think that the list of complaints in this post is a true reflection and that statement is based on the fact that they are still making garments in 2016, I'm pretty sure that they would have run out of money by now and would not be able to function as a business if the fabric has such a poor perception or really is that bad. Note I'm not a user of Event...just trying to add balance. Rab may want to be different and not want to do Gore products. It can add to the cost of raw materials and the cost of the finished product.
I don't think anyone has said that, but you are correct, companies have move towards the fashion end of the outdoor market but that is no excuse for the mountain-oriented products failing. North Face manage to keep both markets afloat.
My apologies for my statement as it was related to a comment of yours "The issue, I believe, is that some of these companies have moved away from niche mountain gear producers into huge corporate monsters where multiple brands are owned." Which I have miss-read. Note, that most manufacturers have done this...especially when talking clothing.
I'm not sure we know that the OP did buy remotely at a bargain price. That said, we live in an online age and shopping has moved on. It is hard not to compare prices. I know I do, but I do make sure to buy from companies I know and trust even if it means paying a few quid more. My most recent issue was buying direct from the manufacturer's web store and it was obvious that the customer service was an afterthought when the email reply contained [insert brand here] blanks that they forgot to fill in. But this is beside the point, if gear is faulty then it should be sorted. If a jacket wears with rucksack use and is marketed as a mountain coat then it is not "fit for purpose" under the SOGA (as amended). The retailer should be sorting this but the manufacturer should be supporting them and take it on the chin. Rab are not bargain basement gear. Mountain Equipment are competitors pricewise and have much better customer support. Decathlon are much cheaper and yet have decent after sales.
The fact that Rab haven't commented yet is quite telling.
I never said the opening post had bought in the manner described, that was a general comment. I am a firm believer that companies should do what is reasonable, but it is not possible to know that from a few posts on line.. we haven't seen the jacket (nor do I want to). The point being that when working on the opposite side of the fence... as the person writing those rejection letters, expectations and the definition of reasonable varied dramatically and is exacerbated with the increase in the cost of the product. I would suggest that our views on good customer service are very different and that is probably based on my experiences of working on both sides of the fence. Anyway I must dash to get tidied up and get on line as apparently we are living in an online age and you can by this s£*it ont tinternet...
Thanks Angry Pirate
If I had known that my comment was going to be dissected in such a manner I might have put a little more work into it...story of my life.
But in response to your response, my post was a general post... not specific to the opening post but related to the thread, so I have replied in the same manner, note I'm not in a position to respond after this as I have to put my outdoor toys away and get ready for the week ahead.
> Can anyone tell me if venting in this manner helps...do the companies fold and offer you the planet and stars?
Like you, I worked in the outdoor industry for years and I always remember what my boss used to quote "a happy customer will tell two people; an unhappy one will tell ten". I think this is even more true now with social media, as this thread and others like them show.When I worked in retail, we stocked gear from manufacturers whose products were well designed and also whose aftersales was excellent.
You quoted my question but never answered it... not sure what to with that one
> I worked in the outdoor industry (education and distribution..dare I say it... aftersales) for over 15 years and have being going up hills for the last 40+. I find these emails unhelpful as one person complains and then many jump on the band wagon, however, where are all those Rab people keeping the company solvent? There must be some, can we not hear the other side of the story.
There are threads out there praising good customer service, though not for Rab. I wonder why?
Maybe folk can't be bothered, regardless of what you think, people buy Rab products and most must be happy with their purchases or retailers would not stock it and customers would not buy it. I personally own two pieces of Rab stuff, firstly a pair of gaiters, a present, complete gash mind but I wear them on occasions to save the wear on the ones I like. Secondly a pertex windproof, fantastic, long standing, well faded, repaired and much loved piece, if they were making them now I would buy one for all my friends. I personally don't see them as a waterproof company but that is an age thing, when I got excited about gear, they made very good down and pertex products as suggested by others on this thread. My point being that this selection of posts is not a true reflection of Rab customers, so read it, consider it and put it into the mix when buying, if buying.
> Event is covered by the manufacturer (Rab) as are all fabrics bar those produced by WL Gore, where you will get the manufactures and material manufacturer's warranty. So in the case of delaminating, two bites of the cherry although Gore fabrics do not delaminate so readily these days (they are just ahead of the curve and spend lots on testing and QA).
Rab has had issues with Event for years now. A mate went through two Rab waterproof jackets back in 2008 which leaked from the get go. Rab did replace them under warranty but then they were pretty much new.
I'm all for companies trying different fabrics but they need to be prepared for losses due go returns if it turns out to be a duck. I am left wondering why Rab haven't moved to Goretex. Could it be Gore wouldn't grant a license?
Again I don't think that the list of complaints in this post is a true reflection and that statement is based on the fact that they are still making garments in 2016, I'm pretty sure that they would have run out of money by now and would not be able to function as a business if the fabric has such a poor perception or really is that bad. Note I'm not a user of Event...just trying to add balance. Rab may want to be different and not want to do Gore products. It can add to the cost of raw materials and the cost of the finished product.
> Someone said in here that companies don't make kit for the hill but are pandering to the high street.
I don't think anyone has said that, but you are correct, companies have move towards the fashion end of the outdoor market but that is no excuse for the mountain-oriented products failing. North Face manage to keep both markets afloat.
My apologies for my statement as it was related to a comment of yours "The issue, I believe, is that some of these companies have moved away from niche mountain gear producers into huge corporate monsters where multiple brands are owned." Which I have miss-read. Note, that most manufacturers have done this...especially when talking clothing.
> Finally to all of the complainers, if you buy remotely via you digital device at a bargain (?) price, standby for poor service.
I'm not sure we know that the OP did buy remotely at a bargain price. That said, we live in an online age and shopping has moved on. It is hard not to compare prices. I know I do, but I do make sure to buy from companies I know and trust even if it means paying a few quid more. My most recent issue was buying direct from the manufacturer's web store and it was obvious that the customer service was an afterthought when the email reply contained [insert brand here] blanks that they forgot to fill in. But this is beside the point, if gear is faulty then it should be sorted. If a jacket wears with rucksack use and is marketed as a mountain coat then it is not "fit for purpose" under the SOGA (as amended). The retailer should be sorting this but the manufacturer should be supporting them and take it on the chin. Rab are not bargain basement gear. Mountain Equipment are competitors pricewise and have much better customer support. Decathlon are much cheaper and yet have decent after sales.
The fact that Rab haven't commented yet is quite telling.
I never said the opening post had bought in the manner described, that was a general comment. I am a firm believer that companies should do what is reasonable, but it is not possible to know that from a few posts on line.. we haven't seen the jacket (nor do I want to). The point being that when working on the opposite side of the fence... as the person writing those rejection letters, expectations and the definition of reasonable varied dramatically and is exacerbated with the increase in the cost of the product. I would suggest that our views on good customer service are very different and that is probably based on my experiences of working on both sides of the fence. Anyway I must dash to get tidied up and get on line as apparently we are living in an online age and you can by this s£*it ont tinternet...
2
5
In reply to Ridge:
But the general attitude from the vast majority of UK companies the vast majority of the time is "screw you" irrespective of the amount of money spent or the premium price being charged.
But the general attitude from the vast majority of UK companies the vast majority of the time is "screw you" irrespective of the amount of money spent or the premium price being charged.
1
In reply to Leearma:
Having dealt with DMM, Montane, Mountain Equipment, Aguille Alpine, bufallo, Orange (mountain bikes) and Kenwood, I've found them all to be excellent.
Having dealt with DMM, Montane, Mountain Equipment, Aguille Alpine, bufallo, Orange (mountain bikes) and Kenwood, I've found them all to be excellent.
1
In reply to philip.nh:
To provide some balance, I have had bad experiences with Rab waterproof jackets, but have also received good customer service from them.
2010 I bought a Latok Alpine, some of the taping came loose after two weeks, this was handled by the retailer by providing me with a new jacket. This jacket lasted a bit longer, although I was not very impressed by its performance and durability. A zipper failure in 2012 led to a refund, as the retailer had stopped selling Rab and could not provide me with a repair or exchange. This is not really Rab aftersales to be honest, but proper customer service form a local retailer.
After looking for a new waterproof for more than a year, I came back to Rab in 2013 and bought a Myriad jacket. This jacket had a perfect fit and performance, and was a joy to use. Its durability was not so good, as the Neoshell membrane started to disintegrate without a clear cause after only 3 years of light/moderate use. Since Rab stopped using Neoshell, I have been provided with a new Latok Alpine Jacket under warranty. The fit of this newer model Latok Alpine is not as good for me as the Myriad, or the older Latok Alpine, but the jacket seems decent enough.
The face fabric on the new jacket seems really beefy compared to my previous jackets, which could mean that Rab has stepped up their durability game?
That said, my Rab softshell, down jacket and sleeping bag have been going steady for many years now.
To provide some balance, I have had bad experiences with Rab waterproof jackets, but have also received good customer service from them.
2010 I bought a Latok Alpine, some of the taping came loose after two weeks, this was handled by the retailer by providing me with a new jacket. This jacket lasted a bit longer, although I was not very impressed by its performance and durability. A zipper failure in 2012 led to a refund, as the retailer had stopped selling Rab and could not provide me with a repair or exchange. This is not really Rab aftersales to be honest, but proper customer service form a local retailer.
After looking for a new waterproof for more than a year, I came back to Rab in 2013 and bought a Myriad jacket. This jacket had a perfect fit and performance, and was a joy to use. Its durability was not so good, as the Neoshell membrane started to disintegrate without a clear cause after only 3 years of light/moderate use. Since Rab stopped using Neoshell, I have been provided with a new Latok Alpine Jacket under warranty. The fit of this newer model Latok Alpine is not as good for me as the Myriad, or the older Latok Alpine, but the jacket seems decent enough.
The face fabric on the new jacket seems really beefy compared to my previous jackets, which could mean that Rab has stepped up their durability game?
That said, my Rab softshell, down jacket and sleeping bag have been going steady for many years now.
In reply to Leearma:
"Lifetime means the life of the product, not you! And if you go out and rip your shiny new jacket on day one, that is the lifetime, it is highly, nay very unlikely to be a defect in the product and therefore not covered under the warranty."
Sure, but an expensive jacket with moderate use and regular maintenance should not fail catastrophically after 9 months - this absolutely should be covered under warranty.
You wanted to hear the other side. Well I have lots of rab equipment, and I'm perfectly happy with all of it except this one single item: I think it's generally good kit and have always been happy to spend money on it. Previous to this I would have recommended it to friends. Which makes it all the more galling when I do have a problem and the response I get is a brief, vague note telling me it's my fault due to a lack of maintenance. I don't mind that I got a duff item: these things happen. It's the response I got that I'm not happy with, and unfortunately it means I will be spending my money elsewhere in future as I cannot trust the company to respond well on those inevitable occasions when there is a problem.
I get the point about people being more likely to complain than to praise a company. This thread however does contain quite a number of positive endorsements for various other companies which people are clearly happy to recommend!
"Lifetime means the life of the product, not you! And if you go out and rip your shiny new jacket on day one, that is the lifetime, it is highly, nay very unlikely to be a defect in the product and therefore not covered under the warranty."
Sure, but an expensive jacket with moderate use and regular maintenance should not fail catastrophically after 9 months - this absolutely should be covered under warranty.
You wanted to hear the other side. Well I have lots of rab equipment, and I'm perfectly happy with all of it except this one single item: I think it's generally good kit and have always been happy to spend money on it. Previous to this I would have recommended it to friends. Which makes it all the more galling when I do have a problem and the response I get is a brief, vague note telling me it's my fault due to a lack of maintenance. I don't mind that I got a duff item: these things happen. It's the response I got that I'm not happy with, and unfortunately it means I will be spending my money elsewhere in future as I cannot trust the company to respond well on those inevitable occasions when there is a problem.
I get the point about people being more likely to complain than to praise a company. This thread however does contain quite a number of positive endorsements for various other companies which people are clearly happy to recommend!
5
In reply to philip.nh:
My tuppence.
Rab aren't now the same company that Rab Carrington sold.
Regardless of any warranty offered your statutory rights dictate that goods must perform the function for which they were designed and remain free of defects for a period of time a reasonable person would expect them to. Cost is a factor here. A Tesco value frying pan shouldn't be expected to last as long as a Tefal. Two questions, 1 did the jacket remain free of defects for an acceptable period of time? 2 are you a reasonable person?
Send them a letter before action and if necessary file a MCOL.
My tuppence.
Rab aren't now the same company that Rab Carrington sold.
Regardless of any warranty offered your statutory rights dictate that goods must perform the function for which they were designed and remain free of defects for a period of time a reasonable person would expect them to. Cost is a factor here. A Tesco value frying pan shouldn't be expected to last as long as a Tefal. Two questions, 1 did the jacket remain free of defects for an acceptable period of time? 2 are you a reasonable person?
Send them a letter before action and if necessary file a MCOL.
Post edited at 00:26
3
In reply to philip.nh:
Hi all,
Sorry for the delay in posting something "official", but after initially looking in on this thread on Friday morning, I hadn't realised quite how big a discussion it had become.
As there was an ongoing conversation with our Warranty and Repair team when I saw this on Friday, I initially didn't feel that posting in here was appropriate as it risked getting wires crossed with communication or getting into tit for tat/other issues that wouldn't help to resolve the complaint. As I understand it, things have now been sorted out with regards to the jacket, but I apologise for not getting in here and putting everyone's minds at rest sooner.
While I do peruse these forums as a general user and keep an eye on them for work too, I generally come across most of what people post about Rab and, where appropriate, chase it up at our end to see what can be done. A lot of people have raised issues in this thread but it doesn't really seem the ideal place for me to go about responding to all of them. If anyone does have issues that they'd still like to raise, then I can guarantee a response if you use the form on our website to email the Warranty and Repair team - https://rab.equipment/support/returns-and-warranty/ or if anyone wants to raise something more general, feel free to drop me a PM.
Thanks,
Adam (Rab)
Hi all,
Sorry for the delay in posting something "official", but after initially looking in on this thread on Friday morning, I hadn't realised quite how big a discussion it had become.
As there was an ongoing conversation with our Warranty and Repair team when I saw this on Friday, I initially didn't feel that posting in here was appropriate as it risked getting wires crossed with communication or getting into tit for tat/other issues that wouldn't help to resolve the complaint. As I understand it, things have now been sorted out with regards to the jacket, but I apologise for not getting in here and putting everyone's minds at rest sooner.
While I do peruse these forums as a general user and keep an eye on them for work too, I generally come across most of what people post about Rab and, where appropriate, chase it up at our end to see what can be done. A lot of people have raised issues in this thread but it doesn't really seem the ideal place for me to go about responding to all of them. If anyone does have issues that they'd still like to raise, then I can guarantee a response if you use the form on our website to email the Warranty and Repair team - https://rab.equipment/support/returns-and-warranty/ or if anyone wants to raise something more general, feel free to drop me a PM.
Thanks,
Adam (Rab)
6
9
In reply to Adam_42:
Not quite sure how you think your "response" puts "everyone's minds at rest". All I can see is that the op was repeatedly fobbed off and now you're telling us it's been resolved but you're not saying how.
Not quite sure how you think your "response" puts "everyone's minds at rest". All I can see is that the op was repeatedly fobbed off and now you're telling us it's been resolved but you're not saying how.
12
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:
Had an email this morning and they have offered to repair the affected areas FoC. Great news!
In response to the person asking whether these threads are worth it, and how we don't see people praising good customer service I would say the following:
I've no idea if Rabs final decision had anything to with this thread or my general persistence.
I created the thread for the purpose of sharing information and to see if anyone else here might have any tips/input on how to 'stick my ground'. I'm glad that Rab have decided to side with the customer because i think it represents the level of customer service that is expected for products in this particular price bracket.
Many people have detailed their positive experiences with a number of different manufacturers/vendors. I personally believe that a positive attitude towards a company is reflected in brand loyalty and the continued purchase of their products. Positive feedback == £££ in the bank and to the shareholders. Negative feedback can only be reflected in complaints/online reviews etc.
Had an email this morning and they have offered to repair the affected areas FoC. Great news!
In response to the person asking whether these threads are worth it, and how we don't see people praising good customer service I would say the following:
I've no idea if Rabs final decision had anything to with this thread or my general persistence.
I created the thread for the purpose of sharing information and to see if anyone else here might have any tips/input on how to 'stick my ground'. I'm glad that Rab have decided to side with the customer because i think it represents the level of customer service that is expected for products in this particular price bracket.
Many people have detailed their positive experiences with a number of different manufacturers/vendors. I personally believe that a positive attitude towards a company is reflected in brand loyalty and the continued purchase of their products. Positive feedback == £££ in the bank and to the shareholders. Negative feedback can only be reflected in complaints/online reviews etc.
3
In reply to Sir Chasm:
Hi.
When I said "put everyone's minds at rest" I simply meant in terms of letting everyone know that we were looking into the customer's issue on our end. As I said, the Warranty and Repair team told me this morning that it had now been resolved.
I don't consider it appropriate to post the details of a customer's private email inquiry on this forum, but if the OP wants to update everyone, then I'm sure he will. (EDIT: And indeed, has).
Cheers,
Adam
Hi.
When I said "put everyone's minds at rest" I simply meant in terms of letting everyone know that we were looking into the customer's issue on our end. As I said, the Warranty and Repair team told me this morning that it had now been resolved.
I don't consider it appropriate to post the details of a customer's private email inquiry on this forum, but if the OP wants to update everyone, then I'm sure he will. (EDIT: And indeed, has).
Cheers,
Adam
Post edited at 11:23
6
3
In reply to Adam_42:
Adam,
Thank you for joining this thread, it's useful to have the manufacturer available to comment.
I do think however, that your response misses the point, which is that (other than this specific case) for many people Rab's 'warranty' doesn't seem to count for much. That's the issue you should address here.
As consumers we want to be assured that the warranty on expensive kit actually counts for something and won't be rebutted for spurious reasons.
Given the quantity of stuff you sell, There will always be some unambiguous faulty materials and/or manufactured kit that comes back to you? It should not be a battle for the customer, when it is it reflects very badly on the retailer and manufacturer. Customers should not have to resort to UKC to get their warranty issues resolved.
All of this isn't helped by retailers who insist on returning faulty goods for unnecessary 'Technical Assessment' to the manufacturer when the fault is laughably obvious - In my case a zip on a Rab Jacket that consistently jammed. Ultimately refunded, but it was a pain.
What say you?
Steve
Adam,
Thank you for joining this thread, it's useful to have the manufacturer available to comment.
I do think however, that your response misses the point, which is that (other than this specific case) for many people Rab's 'warranty' doesn't seem to count for much. That's the issue you should address here.
As consumers we want to be assured that the warranty on expensive kit actually counts for something and won't be rebutted for spurious reasons.
Given the quantity of stuff you sell, There will always be some unambiguous faulty materials and/or manufactured kit that comes back to you? It should not be a battle for the customer, when it is it reflects very badly on the retailer and manufacturer. Customers should not have to resort to UKC to get their warranty issues resolved.
All of this isn't helped by retailers who insist on returning faulty goods for unnecessary 'Technical Assessment' to the manufacturer when the fault is laughably obvious - In my case a zip on a Rab Jacket that consistently jammed. Ultimately refunded, but it was a pain.
What say you?
Steve
18
1
In reply to SteveSBlake:
Hi Steve,
That seems fair. I'll try to address the issues you've raised in your post but as that will be a response to both the OP and some of the more general issues raised in this thread, it will be my last comment here. If anyone has any specific issues or feels that I haven't addressed their concerns, as I said in my previous comment, myself or another member of the team will be happy to reply to any and all inquiries that come in via the contact forms on our website - http://rab.equipment/uk/support I feel that's a much better way of resolving customer concerns as it allows for a more focused conversation.
I can very much understand that you would have concerns over our warranty given what you've read here, so I'd like to be very clear on that.
There is no doubt that we get more returns now than we did 15 years ago, but Rab has also grown considerably in that time. In percentage terms our return rate is very similar. The vast majority of people who use our Warranty and Return service are happy with the care they receive, but there will inevitably be cases where we fall short. We do our best to reduce these instances and take all complaints about our service very seriously.
As to the terms of our warranty:
For the first year of ownership your guarantee is with the store that you purchased the jacket (item of clothing) from.
After this Rab offer a limited lifetime warranty to the original purchaser. The lifetime of the product can obviously depend on the type of garment, how often it is used and under what conditions it is used. We reserve the right to either repair or replace the item if deemed to be faulty.
If we deem the item not to be covered under warranty then we may offer a replacement item at a reduced cost.
It is very rare that we would not offer any solution no matter the age and condition of the garment.
Of course manufacturing faults can occur, but we address these immediately and do whatever we can to happily rectify the issue with the end consumer.
As I say, errors will occur, but we work hard to respond appropriately and to constantly improve our service.
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with your suggestion that people have to resort to UKC to resolve their issues. As I think I made clear in my previous post, I avoided attempting to resolve the customer's issue on this thread as there was an ongoing conversation with our Warranty and Returns team, through which the customer's issue was ultimately resolved. Indeed, I only posted here once the team assured me that the issue had been resolved.
I definitely understand your frustration with having to wait for items to be sent for "technical assessment". This is a system we do use in order to support our retailers, but I understand that this system may also be utilised imperfectly from time to time. This is something we work hard to combat with appropriate technical training for retail staff, but as you can imagine, retail staff can change over time and, like all systems, it is also open to human error. As you say though, it is definitely a place we can look at for improvement.
I hope that has helped to reassure you on a number of the issues you've raised. Like I say, if you still have concerns, please take advantage of the contact forms on our website.
Best, Adam (Rab)
Hi Steve,
> I do think however, that your response misses the point, which is that (other than this specific case) for many people Rab's 'warranty' doesn't seem to count for much. That's the issue you should address here.
That seems fair. I'll try to address the issues you've raised in your post but as that will be a response to both the OP and some of the more general issues raised in this thread, it will be my last comment here. If anyone has any specific issues or feels that I haven't addressed their concerns, as I said in my previous comment, myself or another member of the team will be happy to reply to any and all inquiries that come in via the contact forms on our website - http://rab.equipment/uk/support I feel that's a much better way of resolving customer concerns as it allows for a more focused conversation.
I can very much understand that you would have concerns over our warranty given what you've read here, so I'd like to be very clear on that.
There is no doubt that we get more returns now than we did 15 years ago, but Rab has also grown considerably in that time. In percentage terms our return rate is very similar. The vast majority of people who use our Warranty and Return service are happy with the care they receive, but there will inevitably be cases where we fall short. We do our best to reduce these instances and take all complaints about our service very seriously.
As to the terms of our warranty:
For the first year of ownership your guarantee is with the store that you purchased the jacket (item of clothing) from.
After this Rab offer a limited lifetime warranty to the original purchaser. The lifetime of the product can obviously depend on the type of garment, how often it is used and under what conditions it is used. We reserve the right to either repair or replace the item if deemed to be faulty.
If we deem the item not to be covered under warranty then we may offer a replacement item at a reduced cost.
It is very rare that we would not offer any solution no matter the age and condition of the garment.
Of course manufacturing faults can occur, but we address these immediately and do whatever we can to happily rectify the issue with the end consumer.
As I say, errors will occur, but we work hard to respond appropriately and to constantly improve our service.
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with your suggestion that people have to resort to UKC to resolve their issues. As I think I made clear in my previous post, I avoided attempting to resolve the customer's issue on this thread as there was an ongoing conversation with our Warranty and Returns team, through which the customer's issue was ultimately resolved. Indeed, I only posted here once the team assured me that the issue had been resolved.
I definitely understand your frustration with having to wait for items to be sent for "technical assessment". This is a system we do use in order to support our retailers, but I understand that this system may also be utilised imperfectly from time to time. This is something we work hard to combat with appropriate technical training for retail staff, but as you can imagine, retail staff can change over time and, like all systems, it is also open to human error. As you say though, it is definitely a place we can look at for improvement.
I hope that has helped to reassure you on a number of the issues you've raised. Like I say, if you still have concerns, please take advantage of the contact forms on our website.
Best, Adam (Rab)
7
9
In reply to Adam_42:
Thanks for taking the time to reply Adam, I appreciate it.
I'll not respond on here to some of the things that I think remain a bit fuzzy, I don't think it would be productive.
I'll familiarise myself with your warranties page and processes.
Cheers,
Steve
Thanks for taking the time to reply Adam, I appreciate it.
I'll not respond on here to some of the things that I think remain a bit fuzzy, I don't think it would be productive.
I'll familiarise myself with your warranties page and processes.
Cheers,
Steve
In reply to philip.nh:
I returned a Latok Alpine to the retailer shortly before this thread went up and have been watching with increasing foreboding.
The specific issues were slightly different but resulted in much the same outcome - a jacket waterproof in name only after 9 months of moderate use at worst.
So, in the interest of balance I thought I'd hop in to say that Rab are replacing it straight out and, so far as I know, without any suggestion that this is any other party's fault.
I'll admit to misgivings about a replacement in the light of what's been discussed here and elsewhere but can have no complaint about Rab's handling of the matter. Leakiness aside, I was quite fond of the design and fit (except the water-catching pockets), so I'll have to have a think.
I returned a Latok Alpine to the retailer shortly before this thread went up and have been watching with increasing foreboding.
The specific issues were slightly different but resulted in much the same outcome - a jacket waterproof in name only after 9 months of moderate use at worst.
So, in the interest of balance I thought I'd hop in to say that Rab are replacing it straight out and, so far as I know, without any suggestion that this is any other party's fault.
I'll admit to misgivings about a replacement in the light of what's been discussed here and elsewhere but can have no complaint about Rab's handling of the matter. Leakiness aside, I was quite fond of the design and fit (except the water-catching pockets), so I'll have to have a think.
In reply to philip.nh:
I returned my Rab Spark to Go Outdoors on 30th August because after only about 3 outings it leaked all across the shoulders, in a situation where the rest of my family stayed dry in much cheaper waterproofs. It wasn't sweat, I walked a short distance (10s of metres) and stood about in a downpour for about 20 minutes. No rucksack on and in between outings in my rucksack the coat had been hung carefully in my wardrobe.
Yesterday I got a phone call to say Rab could find no manufacturing fault and had returned it to the store with a bottle of reproofer. In the meantime, I have bought another brand waterproof (because I wasn't staying off the hills for weeks on end). There's no way I'd trust the Spark now in any situation where getting soaked might put me at risk of hypothermia.
It's a shame, I have lots of Rab stuff, it fits me well, but after this I will be looking elsewhere.
I returned my Rab Spark to Go Outdoors on 30th August because after only about 3 outings it leaked all across the shoulders, in a situation where the rest of my family stayed dry in much cheaper waterproofs. It wasn't sweat, I walked a short distance (10s of metres) and stood about in a downpour for about 20 minutes. No rucksack on and in between outings in my rucksack the coat had been hung carefully in my wardrobe.
Yesterday I got a phone call to say Rab could find no manufacturing fault and had returned it to the store with a bottle of reproofer. In the meantime, I have bought another brand waterproof (because I wasn't staying off the hills for weeks on end). There's no way I'd trust the Spark now in any situation where getting soaked might put me at risk of hypothermia.
It's a shame, I have lots of Rab stuff, it fits me well, but after this I will be looking elsewhere.
6
In reply to CLYoung:
Surely returning the jacket with a bottle of reproofer is an admission that the DWR isn't working?
For the fabric not to be repelling water after such a short time would suggest to me that it isn't fit for purpose.
It seems to me that Rab/Equip have washed (no pun intended) their hands of it, maybe you could stand your ground with the retailer seeing as the item has had so little wear?
Surely returning the jacket with a bottle of reproofer is an admission that the DWR isn't working?
For the fabric not to be repelling water after such a short time would suggest to me that it isn't fit for purpose.
It seems to me that Rab/Equip have washed (no pun intended) their hands of it, maybe you could stand your ground with the retailer seeing as the item has had so little wear?
1
In reply to philip.nh:
Oh boy, I just bought a Rab Merio+ baselayer, Baseline hoody and Photon X last week costing me over 300 quid. Wish I had read this thread first. It's all been used now so can't return.
Anyone had issues with those products? I've actually noticed the zipper on my Photon X can be hard to engage.
Oh boy, I just bought a Rab Merio+ baselayer, Baseline hoody and Photon X last week costing me over 300 quid. Wish I had read this thread first. It's all been used now so can't return.
Anyone had issues with those products? I've actually noticed the zipper on my Photon X can be hard to engage.
1
In reply to Fenda:
I got a couple of jackets (not Photon) where the Rab zips are a right pain to use.
To be fair, I have never taken this up with Rab due to the hassle having to prove what are essentially intermittent faults. Personally though it means I will never use those Rab jackets in the hills due to the unreliability of the zips. Pity as I like the gear otherwise.
Seems like some manufacturers can do great zips, and some can't.
Edit spelling.
> I've actually noticed the zipper on my Photon X can be hard to engage.
I got a couple of jackets (not Photon) where the Rab zips are a right pain to use.
To be fair, I have never taken this up with Rab due to the hassle having to prove what are essentially intermittent faults. Personally though it means I will never use those Rab jackets in the hills due to the unreliability of the zips. Pity as I like the gear otherwise.
Seems like some manufacturers can do great zips, and some can't.
Edit spelling.
Post edited at 09:22
1
In reply to Fenda:
From what I've heard and read, Rab Merino (Meco) products are pretty well regarded.
It seems most people's problems and complaints are more confined to Rab's waterproofs and event fabric in particular.
From what I've heard and read, Rab Merino (Meco) products are pretty well regarded.
It seems most people's problems and complaints are more confined to Rab's waterproofs and event fabric in particular.
1
In reply to Glyno:
Love my MeCo. So much much durable than any pure merino I've had. Shame about the shade of green, but I knew that before I bought it.
Love my MeCo. So much much durable than any pure merino I've had. Shame about the shade of green, but I knew that before I bought it.
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
Ditto. I've got a MeCo short sleeve and a long sleeve half zip. Both wearing well after 3 or 4 years.
Also have a Generator Alpine I love, a vapour-rise pullover that's also great.
I don't have any Rab Event stuff (having been put off the material itself by stuff I've read) but I do have some of their neoshell trousers and a Pertex shield jacket. I've had issues with neither of these.
Ditto. I've got a MeCo short sleeve and a long sleeve half zip. Both wearing well after 3 or 4 years.
Also have a Generator Alpine I love, a vapour-rise pullover that's also great.
I don't have any Rab Event stuff (having been put off the material itself by stuff I've read) but I do have some of their neoshell trousers and a Pertex shield jacket. I've had issues with neither of these.
1
In reply to Fenda:
I bet you'll have no problems. Had some MeCo stuff for years including a hoody, and still in good condition. I still regularly use this Photon jacket too http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2685 no problems at all.
I've had a few minor issues with Rab stuff I've reviewed over the years but nothing more than some stitching popping or a plastic thingy on the end of a drawcord falling off, nothing worse.
I've also had an eVent jacket not from Rab suddenly start leaking, so I wonder if it is the fabrics more than the maker?
I bet you'll have no problems. Had some MeCo stuff for years including a hoody, and still in good condition. I still regularly use this Photon jacket too http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2685 no problems at all.
I've had a few minor issues with Rab stuff I've reviewed over the years but nothing more than some stitching popping or a plastic thingy on the end of a drawcord falling off, nothing worse.
I've also had an eVent jacket not from Rab suddenly start leaking, so I wonder if it is the fabrics more than the maker?
In reply to Fenda:
FFS, that really seems an over reaction! Rab products are generally great, and even most returns are dealt with to the satisfaction of all, so stop panicking and get over it and use your tops without being so over concerned.
FFS, that really seems an over reaction! Rab products are generally great, and even most returns are dealt with to the satisfaction of all, so stop panicking and get over it and use your tops without being so over concerned.
2
1
In reply to TobyA:
There have been a number of threads over the years about eVent. I have an eVent jacket from another manufacturer which delaminated a lot sooner that I would have hoped, whereas I haven't had any such issues with GoreTex jackets and trousers.
That said, I'm more bothered about the tone and nature of the responses from Rab, which really don't seem very reassuring. Then again, Rab waterproofs never fit me - either they're a weird shape or I'm a weird shape - so it probably not an issue I'm going to have to deal with.
> I've also had an eVent jacket not from Rab suddenly start leaking, so I wonder if it is the fabrics more than the maker?
There have been a number of threads over the years about eVent. I have an eVent jacket from another manufacturer which delaminated a lot sooner that I would have hoped, whereas I haven't had any such issues with GoreTex jackets and trousers.
That said, I'm more bothered about the tone and nature of the responses from Rab, which really don't seem very reassuring. Then again, Rab waterproofs never fit me - either they're a weird shape or I'm a weird shape - so it probably not an issue I'm going to have to deal with.
1
In reply to tony:
There certainly have - going back a long time now. Some similar threads about NeoShell too I think although it has always worked for me. Having said that, I lent my brother-in-law a neoshell recently and he said it leaked while he stood a touchline watching a rugby match. I wondered if it could be something to do with not being warmer inside than out or something like that?
> There have been a number of threads over the years about eVent.
There certainly have - going back a long time now. Some similar threads about NeoShell too I think although it has always worked for me. Having said that, I lent my brother-in-law a neoshell recently and he said it leaked while he stood a touchline watching a rugby match. I wondered if it could be something to do with not being warmer inside than out or something like that?
In reply to 99ster:
ha ha - Rapha could replace your socks 4 times before they start making a loss.
Wally
> I've had excellent customer service from Arcteryx, Patagonia and Grivel. But none of them come close to Rapha (expensive high end British cycling kit) - had a problem with some socks : new pair arrived in the post the next day + a gift voucher to compensate me for the inconvenience! Now that's how to treat your customers. Sounds like Rab might want to contact them & ask for some lessons!
ha ha - Rapha could replace your socks 4 times before they start making a loss.
Wally
1
In reply to philip.nh:
A few more observations. With reference to Toby's comments, I have a lot of Rab kit and, apart from stitching issues (and overly long arms in some jackets) I have been pleased with the kit. eVent does have to be washed regularly, like the early Goretex (if you can remember that far back). Goretex isn't perfect, I recently washed and attempted to reproof my wife's Wild Roses gore jacket and it came out of the washing machine minus it's waterproof membrane, which was everywhere as a cloud of fine, white particles.
Rab are no longer the niche company that Mr Carrington started way back, so it is a little unfair to compare them to DMM and PHD. As companies get larger and more commercial it is more about the profit and less about the customer.
The other issue to be aware of is that shifting production to China has, to my mind, been a big mistake. Maybe not so much for Rab's profit margins but in terms of quality assurance. Remember, most Chinese workers are paid at piece rates, so all they are concerned with is turning out as many items as possible so they get paid a half-decent wage. If there are faults in the fabric they aren't going to complain or stop production while it is sorted, and if quality control don't do their job then some faulty items will slip through. 1% of a niche manufacturers items might mean 2 or 3 duds, 1% of Rab's output would be hundreds of items.
A few more observations. With reference to Toby's comments, I have a lot of Rab kit and, apart from stitching issues (and overly long arms in some jackets) I have been pleased with the kit. eVent does have to be washed regularly, like the early Goretex (if you can remember that far back). Goretex isn't perfect, I recently washed and attempted to reproof my wife's Wild Roses gore jacket and it came out of the washing machine minus it's waterproof membrane, which was everywhere as a cloud of fine, white particles.
Rab are no longer the niche company that Mr Carrington started way back, so it is a little unfair to compare them to DMM and PHD. As companies get larger and more commercial it is more about the profit and less about the customer.
The other issue to be aware of is that shifting production to China has, to my mind, been a big mistake. Maybe not so much for Rab's profit margins but in terms of quality assurance. Remember, most Chinese workers are paid at piece rates, so all they are concerned with is turning out as many items as possible so they get paid a half-decent wage. If there are faults in the fabric they aren't going to complain or stop production while it is sorted, and if quality control don't do their job then some faulty items will slip through. 1% of a niche manufacturers items might mean 2 or 3 duds, 1% of Rab's output would be hundreds of items.
In reply to philip.nh:
You could try the Martin Lewis approach and demand a refund under consumer law. Under EU law goods must be Satisfactory Quality, Fit for purpose and last a Reasonable period of time. If you write to them stating the goods did not last a Reasonable period of time and that if they do not provide a refund you will proceed to the small claims court they might well refund you. If not it's easy enough to file a small claim against them, and I doubt they will even attempt to defend it as it will cost them more than the jacket is worth and you will win by default!
You could try the Martin Lewis approach and demand a refund under consumer law. Under EU law goods must be Satisfactory Quality, Fit for purpose and last a Reasonable period of time. If you write to them stating the goods did not last a Reasonable period of time and that if they do not provide a refund you will proceed to the small claims court they might well refund you. If not it's easy enough to file a small claim against them, and I doubt they will even attempt to defend it as it will cost them more than the jacket is worth and you will win by default!
1
In reply to springfall2008:
Except that the OP didnt buy the goods direct from RAB. His money was paid to a retailer with whom his contract of sale is with, and they alone are who he should contact if he wanted a refund.
Except that the OP didnt buy the goods direct from RAB. His money was paid to a retailer with whom his contract of sale is with, and they alone are who he should contact if he wanted a refund.
Post edited at 20:14
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In reply to phizz4:
Do you know that is really the case?
I wrote an article for Climb some years back about Jottnar when it was first set up. Tommy, one of the founders, told me that you have to find a good factory in China because the manufacturing skill, know-how and technology is now all there. Jottnar also said there are various of ethical standards assessing firms and organisations and if I remember correctly Tommy said something along the lines of you'd have to be mad not to make sure your manufacturing partner is an ethically and environmentally responsible company as a small company couldn't survive a scandal (as big companies like H&M seem to be able to!). This just makes me question the oft heard assumption that all our gear is made in sweat shops by exploited workers who are complete alienated from their labour in the classic Marxist sense! I know you haven't said that exactly, but you know what I mean.
By the way, did you work out what killed your wife's goretex? I've seen pu coatings peel off old jackets, my much loved yellow Patagonia Nitro went that way but I don't think I've heard of gtx jackets doing it before. Presumably its a 2 layer with a loose liner?
> Remember, most Chinese workers are paid at piece rates, so all they are concerned with is turning out as many items as possible so they get paid a half-decent wage.
Do you know that is really the case?
I wrote an article for Climb some years back about Jottnar when it was first set up. Tommy, one of the founders, told me that you have to find a good factory in China because the manufacturing skill, know-how and technology is now all there. Jottnar also said there are various of ethical standards assessing firms and organisations and if I remember correctly Tommy said something along the lines of you'd have to be mad not to make sure your manufacturing partner is an ethically and environmentally responsible company as a small company couldn't survive a scandal (as big companies like H&M seem to be able to!). This just makes me question the oft heard assumption that all our gear is made in sweat shops by exploited workers who are complete alienated from their labour in the classic Marxist sense! I know you haven't said that exactly, but you know what I mean.
By the way, did you work out what killed your wife's goretex? I've seen pu coatings peel off old jackets, my much loved yellow Patagonia Nitro went that way but I don't think I've heard of gtx jackets doing it before. Presumably its a 2 layer with a loose liner?
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In reply to phizz4:
> As companies get larger and more commercial it is more about the profit and less about the customer.
>
Mountain Equipment, Montane, Arc'teryx, to name just a few, give excellent customer service, why don't Rab/Equip?In reply to philip.nh:
I'm sure that not all Chinese companies are as I described but, equally, from the films that I have seen, many of them are.
Yes, it was a 2 layer plus mesh lining. I was following the washing instructions (pure soap, 30 degrees) and it came out of the washing machine minus it's membrane.
As for the other companies, I'm sure that they get their equal share of good and bad press, it's just that I feel that companies like DMM and PHD (and these are not the only ones) have a reputation that they hold dear and will do much to safeguard. Way back, when Wild County first started, I had an issue with a Voyager tent that I had just bought, new. I took it back to the factory in Tideswell in person and was very well received and dealt with. Do a google search for issues with Wild County/Terra Nova tent warranties now and it seems to be a similar one to the current issue with Rab.
I am still wondering why Montane have moved from eVent to Goretex.
I'm sure that not all Chinese companies are as I described but, equally, from the films that I have seen, many of them are.
Yes, it was a 2 layer plus mesh lining. I was following the washing instructions (pure soap, 30 degrees) and it came out of the washing machine minus it's membrane.
As for the other companies, I'm sure that they get their equal share of good and bad press, it's just that I feel that companies like DMM and PHD (and these are not the only ones) have a reputation that they hold dear and will do much to safeguard. Way back, when Wild County first started, I had an issue with a Voyager tent that I had just bought, new. I took it back to the factory in Tideswell in person and was very well received and dealt with. Do a google search for issues with Wild County/Terra Nova tent warranties now and it seems to be a similar one to the current issue with Rab.
I am still wondering why Montane have moved from eVent to Goretex.
In reply to L.A.:
Yes correct, I missed that bit
> Except that the OP didnt buy the goods direct from RAB. His money was paid to a retailer with whom his contract of sale is with, and they alone are who he should contact if he wanted a refund.
Yes correct, I missed that bit
In reply to Glyno:
Yes, I have to go back to the retailer to pick it up so I will try to argue the Sales of Goods Act with them.
Overall I still like Rab stuff (I have an Aurora, a Vapourise Lite softshell, Vapourise trousers and leggings). I just wouldn't buy another waterproof from them. Mine was made of Pertex Shield Plus, so this isn't about Event.
Yes, I have to go back to the retailer to pick it up so I will try to argue the Sales of Goods Act with them.
Overall I still like Rab stuff (I have an Aurora, a Vapourise Lite softshell, Vapourise trousers and leggings). I just wouldn't buy another waterproof from them. Mine was made of Pertex Shield Plus, so this isn't about Event.
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