UKC

Hello lovely people. I am looking to move with my family in a couple of years. It's going to have to take that long because we want to be around my in-laws until our second child is 18months/two years old and they are not due until the end of November.

We want to live somewhere climbing friendly, somewhere with affordable housing, perhaps within an hour commute of a big university and somewhere with all the trappings of the urban but quick links to the proper outdoors.

I would really like to consider Scotland after all the recent political goings on in England I wonder if I would be better north of that border particularly in the event of Out by Scotland.

What advice do you clever clever people have please about where would be good? What else do I need to think about?

In reply to puppythedog:
I've been working in Glasgow recently, it definitely matches the description you've given. If I hadn't just bought a house in Derby I would be seriously considering our Glasgow office for a job at the end of the graduate scheme. Hyndland/ West End area is fantastic but from what I understand is quite pricy (I'm just staying somewhere through Air BnB which work is paying for), a colleague lives out in Scotstoun and seems to quite like it and said it was a little cheaper, it's a bit further out so public transport would be bus/ train rather than the subway.
North Wales is out of reach for a weekend unless you REALLY like driving, however Lakes, Northumberland and Galloway are all definitely doable for a weekend, my knowledge of Scottish climbing areas is abysmal but I've just done Reiff for a weekend and was climbing on the Ben last weekend so I think it's pretty well located.
Worth pointing out that trying to escape on the A82 Northbound sucks so having your car out of the city ready for the friday depart is a good idea.
Edit: Also worth pointing out that Scotland is REALLY big, I hadn't quite understood how much further Britain went after the border until this weekend!

In reply to puppythedog:


Yea don't do it.

In reply to puppythedog:

Working up in Lossiemouth last weekend and it occurred to me that within about an hour (at a guess) you'd have access to surfing, skiing, climbing etc. all from your front door if you lived in Inverness, which itself sounds like a nice city. Don't know what the work situation is like but otherwise it certainly looks appealing. Only bought a year ago in southern England though, so I doubt I'll be making the move any time soon myself.

In reply to Tom Last:

I had six months in Inverness many moons ago - nice city and great part of the world for those with 'our' non-work interests. Winter not great when it rains for a month but in summer it is wonderful (if you ignore the midges anyway). Good for getting to Skye, Torridon, the Ben, Cairngorm etc; not too bad for links to Edinburgh and Glasgow, otherwise for S England then it is a flight...

b

In reply to Scotland is not that big, so as long as there are reasonable motorway links , or train links, that leaves you quite a bit if Scope.

Glasgow was suggested, I live near Loch Lomond , it is pretty good for the Uni ( 3/4 hour) and lots of outdoor activities.

However, from the comments we got at the Referendum via the media , ( including from friends and workmates) a lot of people said at the time that they will leave Scotland if they voted Yes( and the house prices were predicted to plummet. ( amongst other dire predictions that you should be aware of - if you believe the experts of course

Now it sounds like a lot of people in England/ South might even want Scotland to vote out of the U.K. so they can move here ( Post Brexit) and then perhaps house prices in Scotland might rocket due to high demand from the South . It's a funny old world.

Come soon to avoid disappointment

In reply to puppythedog:

I'd pick Inverness as a first choice but Perth is a nice town that is close to the mountains.

In reply to puppythedog:

I live in Stirling. It seems to have what you are looking for, and nicer than Glasgow

In reply to girlymonkey:


Me too. Perfect for your criteria.

In reply to puppythedog:

Forget about Scotland and consider Cork in deep south Ireland. Great mountains....surf....people and university. Cheap flights to Europe.☺

In reply to puppythedog:

I'd second Inverness, I moved here from Glasgow a month ago and it's great. There is so much easy exploring around here it's great. We're looking for a house too and there seems to be a lot at reasonable prices, the leisure centre and climbing wall is great too. Supermarkets are spoilt for choice and there is a uni here. Above all the people are brilliant, everyone seems to have time to say hello and chat and have multiple things going on.

In reply to jonnie3430:


You'll change your tune about the wall when you've been here for 12 months and the routes haven't changed.

Otherwise Inverness is great although perhaps a bit more remote than the OP wants.

In reply to goatee:

And 265 rain days a year!

In reply to DaveHK:

Still better than doing pull ups and dangling on a finger board, the cost and atmosphere is great and there is a sauna for afterwards!

In reply to nutme:
Naw tiz only 200

In reply to puppythedog:

I'm naturally biased towards Inverness - I've been here for 10 years. Not sure UHI counts as a big university, but all of the other boxes are ticked I think. For me, easy access to the far NW is one of the big draws - a 90 minute drive could have you in Assynt, Torridon, Kintail or Glen Nevis.

I wouldn't let politics be the decider - almost anything could happen at the moment, both in Scotland and the UK as a whole.

In reply to puppythedog:
Edinburgh and Glasgow are pretty limited for good cragging within 1 hours drive. Even Perth isn't amazing (compared to Bristol or the Gritcentric areas).

If you are happy driving 1.5 hours from Edinburgh you have Northumberland which is great for bouldering and pretty good for trad (although the grades are hard and the gear not always great) and the area is quiet and scenic. There is some cragging close to Edinburgh and some of its good but there isn't enough of it. Glencoe is about 1:45 away the southern highlands 1.5 hours (although there isn't that many good hills for rock climbing around there), caringorms are 2:15. That said you'd be closer to a wealth of good mountain cragging living in Newcastle than Edinburgh (the lakes are only 1.5 hours from there).

Inverness would give you more options and the NW highlands are amazing and not far from there. Midgies and ticks can be a problem in the summer at many of the crags around inverness, although I would have thought the sea cliffs would be better in that regard.

You could also consider Dundee. I know many Scots don't like it, but its got great views over the Tay. Quite a lot of good cragging within one hour (S Aberdean, Fife, Dunkeld, Abroath, Glen clova and all the Angus cragging). The SE caringorms are really close other mountains not too far apart from NW. Property is super cheap and the weather is very favourable around there (Scotland's sunniest city!). I would say though culturally its a bit lacking and there isn't as much to do in the city as you'd like. Another plus is its very easy to get in and out the city especially from the more desirable west end (which is still cheap enough)

I always thought Leeds would be nice. Lots of bouldering and cragging in Yorkshire. Not far to the Peak and only 2.5 hrs ish to the lakes or n wales. Scotland is also doable for a weekend.

In reply to CurlyStevo:


Fixed that for you Stevo.

In reply to DaveHK:

haha np - lets try and stay on track for the subject of the thread though eh?

In reply to puppythedog:
Glasgow certainly has a good climbing community mostly centered around Dumby/TCA/GCC. A very friendly city and easy to meet people. You are obviously spoiled for choice university wise here too. It has reasonably quick links north; 1hr 45 to the Coe, 2hrs 15 or so to the Fort, 3 hrs to Cairngorms. Getting to the NW is a real drive although is always worth it on a good forecast. On top of this Glasgow has always got loads going on with plenty of choice for bars, restaurants, cafes etc. Also only 45 mins to an hours drive to Ratho. You can certainly get reasonably priced housing depending on what you are looking for. Central belt trad does get a bit limited once you've been here a wee while, mostly climbing in old quarries but there are a few really pretty good natural outcrops to go at as well.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

In reply to puppythedog:

I lived in Glasgow for a long time and my feeling was that for climbing it was sort of handy for lots of places but not really handy for anywhere. As pointed out, you have everything from the Ben in the north to Northumberland or the Lakes in the south for day trips. For a weekend you can reach the NW or Yorkshire. Being able to choose from all those venues was great but I got tired of having to drive so much. I'm in Inverness now and our mileage has dropped dramatically although my interests have changed a bit too. It all depends on exactly what you want.

In reply to DaveHK:
Yeah Edinburgh is a bit like that. If it was 45 min closer I guess it would be really handy for the Northumberland.

Not Scotland but Newcastle is pretty well situated IMO. Quite a lot of cragging and bouldering in the county, North York moors 1 hours - 1.5 and Yorkshire 1-2 hours away. Also the Lakes are only 1.5 hours. Although it can be a bit prone to cold and wind, its pretty favourable weather around there too, its nearly always drier, sunnier and warmer than Edinburgh. One issue is that most the climbing around there is on sandstone and it can be quite slow drying in the winter.

In reply to DaveHK:

On balance, of the places I've lived in Scotland, Stirling (or nearby) best fits the requirements of the OP. Crags (relatively) nearby for summer evenings with some bouldering at Bridge of Allan, good for day & weekend trips both northwards (Nevis, Glencoe, Cairngorms, the NW) and southwards to the Lakes & N England (motorway most of the way) while having a good university & other facilities. Plus its close to Edinburgh & Glasgow if the local culture isn't enough.

Personally I preferred living in Strathspey but its a bit limited for access to universities & the like (also lived in Aberdeen, Killin & Oban)

In reply to puppythedog: thanks for all the replies so far. I am reading and digesting but at work so limited chance to reply.

In reply to Doug:


If access to indoor walls is also a consideration, then Stirling is still a good choice with good motorway links to both Ratho and TCA. If not then it is hard to see beyond Inverness.

In reply to puppythedog:

Can only echo the suggestions for Stirling. Definitely consider Inverness, I may transfer there myself in the near future in the basis of access to so many places.

Dundee is one I'd not have thought but worth a wild card spot.

In reply to nathan79:
Stirling and Perth I think you still have the same criticism there aren't many really good extensive trad crags within an hour. Dunkeld would be in what else? I guess there is all the central belt stuff which can be quite good if somewhat limited / quarry based. Dundee to an extent has the same problem although if you put your foot down red craigs in glen clova is only slightly over an hour which is quite a bonus and most the Perthshire crags are well within an hour. But yeah I only mentioned it as a wild card, but IMO its as good as stirling and perth for cragging after work. The lack of rush hour traffic is a real bonus for Dundee in this regard.

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Aberdeen 'may' fit your criteria; two universities, wide range of cragging 10 to 40 minutes from the city, which is good for evenings or half days. Eastern Cairngorms about an hour away. Aberdeenshire has wealth of varied coastline, beaches, rocky coves, cliffs and picturesque fishing villages, plus lots of countryside.

Downsides are the relatively high house prices, long drives to other parts of Scotland, and England being a 'mission' rather than a destination.

Overall Id rather live and work in Inverness for the weekend opportunities, but Aberdeen for the week day evenings.

In reply to ScraggyGoat:


Agreed with all of this. We live in Mintlaw, 30 miles from the city - not a bad option (I can easily get to the climbing wall and coastal cragging and my wife and I can easily get to the city) and also cheaper house prices.


Good summary, although Aberdeen has more to do and many people (including us) find thi appealing. Being fans of "Sheep City" definitely helps - we certainly did enjoy the Rangers match! We even got on the telly! Having said that, Inverness was great for my munro-bashing and living there definitely helped me finish them off.

M

In reply to puppythedog:


Out of interest, what's the relevance of that?


Presumably opportunities for relevant work; and making enough money both to exist, and to do what you want to do.

In reply to Mark Bannan:
The problems I found with the Aberdean sea cliffs are:
- Quality climbing seems to be in the main spread out amongst mostly not that extensive cliffs (maybe I've been spoilt by places like Swanage?)
- Birds - many cliffs are over run with fulmars and alike even the ones which aren't often have them. The mess and stench they leave lasts a long time too.
- Weather, when I lived in Dundee it would very often be sunny, hit Stonehaven and bang sea haar. Perhaps the northern cliffs are better in this regard?

In reply to CurlyStevo:



Perhaps, but many of the routes are superb. I agree with the dispersed nature of the classics, but no problems with this in the evening and for a full day trip, 2 venues are easily visited. Swanage scared the kex off me the one time I visited (probably went to a poor venue within it), but I'm sure Sheffield is better placed for cragging.


Yes - this is a nuisance! The birds move around a bit too - Alligator Ridge has become more birded than it used to be.


Not really! The haar can be a problem, but the inland or Moray crags provide an option then (usually!)

M

In reply to Mark Bannan:
most of Moray is quite a long way away though I guess rosehearty isn't too far but I've not been. I take your point on Ballatar etc not being too far away for cragging.

The stars on Swanage are there for a reason IMO and the cliff stretches for several km
Boulder Ruckle
Guillemot Ledge
Cormorant Ledge

Also you have Portland close by and a major part of the islands coast is basically rock you can climb.

I must say I did enjoy climbing on the cliffs in the Aberdean and Moray area I must go again sometime.

If I get the chance, I will certainly give Swanage a "second reading". My mistake was probably to be part of a group who had no proper knowledge of where the "gems" were.


The area covered by the NE outcrops book certainly contains a wide variety of climbing, especially if one is willing to drive a bit.

In reply to Rob Parsons:

Hi Rob
I have recently begun to do the odd lecture in my profession and I would like that to be a part of my future.

Work opportunities I will just have to look out for the jobs I can do when we get that far ahead. Fortunately both me and Mrsthedog are quite portable Career wise.

In reply to puppythedog:
Personally I think Inverness with the great access to most the highland areas of Scotland for weekend day trips and easy weekends away would be a great experience. The cragging in the area is diverse and there's enough of it to keep you busy too.

That area is well know for kind weather also

In reply to puppythedog:

Might be worth keeping in mind that proximity to good crags may not always determine how much quality climbing you get done.

For sure, it's a long drive from Glasgow to North West, but you might be short of partners living in Inverness/Aberdeen just when the weather is good and you're keen to go climbing. Conversely, it is extremely easy to find partners in Glasgow - there's just massively more people here.

Regarding children, living in the more compact Glasgow area might be a bonus. Kids are more likely to find their "scene", find jobs, and generally have a healthy social life! On the other hand, living in Aberdeenshire/Inverness, the population is smaller and more dispersed, with little variety of jobs which may be an issue for young adults during/after Uni, who are not as "portable" career wise.

Glasgow is pretty wet over summer, but it is very easy to fire up the motorway to drier parts of Scotland (e.g. Dunkeld...). Glencoe and Arrochar are not much more than an hour 30 drive regarding winter climbing. Especially so if you live in Bearsden/Milngavie sort of areas.

Much of the above is true for Stirling and Edinburgh, though Glasgow is massively more cultured and friendly.

In reply to CacCarnBeag:


I agree with the rest of your points, but I don't think many would agree that Glasgow has as many, let alone more cultural diversions than Edinburgh. Glasgow is perhaps more friendly than Edinburgh, but probably not radically so.

M

In reply to Mark Bannan:

... I don't think many would agree that Glasgow has as many, let alone more cultural diversions than Edinburgh.

I would agree with the claim. For a large city, Edinburgh has surprisingly little going on for most of the year, in particular with respect to music: most touring acts, for example, will visit Glasgow; few go to Edinburgh.

In reply to Mark Bannan:


It's relative, and massively subjective - I don't think you can reasonably make such a statement about such a large city, any more than you could about London or New York. For example, I was born in Glasgow and lived there for 15 years - my mother for over 30, yet she found the place incredibly parochial, unfriendly and inward looking when she visited a couple of years back at around the time of the referendum.

In reply to CacCarnBeag:




Oi! Stirling is highly cultured and friendly! Less of your cheek :-p

In reply to puppythedog:

Thank you all so much your replies are really helpful.

I think Mrsthedog, our Puppies and I might need to go and get a feel for some of it next year maybe a couple of weeks holiday up there.

Is Dumbarton easy to get to from Glasgow? Is it a viable evening crag?

In reply to puppythedog:

We used to go to Dumby for the evening from Stirling from time to time so I guess its possible from Glasgow

In reply to planetmarshall:


I know such comments can be fraught with difficulty - I was merely trying to make a suggestion, based on what I have learned from living in Scotland for over 20 years.


I must say I had found this type of thing occasionally when I lived in Glasgow. Definitely a down-side to living there.

M

In reply to puppythedog:


Piece of piss! You don't even need a car - loads of trains go there and it's a good service.

M

In reply to Mark Bannan:
Being English I have been subjected to racist abuse in Edinburgh several times - always in the same local pub mind. Even from an ex teacher, who told me she doesn't like English people. This was particularly a problem after the brexit vote believe it or not! Never had this in Dundee.

In reply to Rob Parsons:


Granted, I'll give you that.

I suppose it depends on what one is after - Edinburgh does have the Festival, Hogmanay, 6 Nations home matches, terrific pubs and many great restaurants.

I do agree both are great cities with a lot going on, but saying "Glasgow is massively more cultured and friendly than Edinburgh" is a statement that many would disagree with and folk from Edinburgh would probably simply laugh at!

M

In reply to CurlyStevo:


Sorry to hear that! Must be a pub to avoid!

I am Irish and the only very rare problems I have had is from sectarian Glasgow types when I lived there.

M

In reply to Mark Bannan:
The pub is quite nice which is a shame and mostly friendly - its just a few bad eggs.

One of the girls who said she didn't like English later tried quite hard for me to buy her a drink and then she wouldn't go home with her friends and would instead drink with me. I declined.

The sad thing is if any of these people needed to take work in London, they wouldn't expect the same and they wouldn't get it.

In reply to CurlyStevo:
In her case, could be the beer talking!

I agree with you about London - a great city and we love visiting.

In reply to CacCarnBeag:


My wife, a small oriental woman, got so fed up with the almost daily racist abuse (including being spat at, verbal abuse, being 'accidentally' bumped into) in Glasgow that, after 15 years of living with it, she gave up and returned home to the US where she once more thrives. Glasgow isn't always the friendly city some folk make it out to be, there's many here with a very small-town attitude.

In reply to puppythedog:

Reality is that living in Scotland isn't all that great outside of the February - June period. There aren't all that many places where you'll be close to both a University and also good climbing. I lived near Loch Lomond for 2.5 years and the mileage I was doing to get anything done was ridiculous. If you're doing a 160 mile round trip for a day on the Ben and 4 hours each way for a weekend on Skye the mileage and costs rack up.

Whilst it's brilliant when the weather is good, most of the time it's awful (when compared to England). Since moving to Devon I'm getting 5/6 dry days a week rather than 2/3. And once the midges come out....!
If you've only got weekends off you could easily go a month or more without being able to get out on a dry day.

Scotland in my view is a brilliant place for a trip (I'll be there for 6 weeksin winter 2017) but a difficult place to live in.

However if I was going to live anywhere in Scotland it would be Inverness. Really nice town, range of options in the highlands are accessible, decent airport and it's not that wet on the east coast!

In reply to JackM92:

Where do you live in Devon?! I lived in Tavistock for 7 years and it was the wettest place I have ever lived!! Glasgow is like a desert in comparison!!

I am sorry you didn't love living in my country as much as I do - I do not recognise your description of it being a difficult place to live. Autumn is glorious at the moment with it's cold mornings, beautiful colours and mild days with the promise of snow coming soon (dustings on the highest summits already).

In reply to girlymonkey:

Not sure i agree about the rain situation. I remember a friend at university saying that in his first year in Glasgow, having moved from Forfar, he nearly packed it in to go home as that autumn it rained for something like 78 days in a row.

Being from Glasgow, I hadn't noticed anything out of the ordinary.

The rain shadow is really noticeable though- compared to Greenock, Glasgow really is semi-desert. ...

In reply to puppythedog:

I live in Scotland and absolutely love it. I'm in Fife, so not exactly mountain central, but most of the honeypot things are within a 2.5 hours drive. Torridon and the far North are more, but hey, what's a drive when you're looking for fun?

I think that's the key thing - look at the map of the UK. The Scottish land-mass is huge in comparison to England. It's so varied, so special, so wild and also so urban in places. In the mountains there's an accessible remoteness that I haven't felt when out and about elsewhere in the UK. You can in no time at all be very remote and feeling very small - it's pretty magic.

The point with all this eulogising is that it's a massive place. Live somewhere that works for you / family / kids / schools / work / social / local crag / whatever, but then be prepared to travel. Revel in the fact that all of the above is 2 - 4 hours drive not 12 - 14.

In reply to puppythedog:

Maybe I've been here too long (25 years of 25) but I find myself wondering what all the fuss is about rain and distance.

If you're brought up on stable southern weather and a host of outcrop climbing in the near locale, then you'll compare that to Scotland and find your vision of climbing incompatible.

I stay in Glasgow. The nearest hard outdoor climbing belongs to Dumbarton and Dumbuck (20 minutes). Glasgow's indoor facilities are good, as well.

The massive plus point for me is that the Highlands are always half in view, and subconsciously they are always there. I count it a privilege that we have this all so near to hand. I spend a lot of time on the road north, or at the far end. (I could half see myself moving up.)

45 minutes away, Arrochar has great bouldering, single pitch trad, mountain trad and winter climbing. Not to mention piles of cliffs nearby that are just bursting with exploration potential.

Glen Coe in 1 hour 40-ish for me. Enough said.

I don't think the wetness is as big a deal as people make out. It's a very rare time of year that I just cannot get out climbing. Even Glasgow climbers make too much of this and head for the indoor wall, but it's amazing what does stay dry, and for the rest get handy with a towel, loo roll and chalk.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Seriously, Tavistock was worse! I remember one winter when it literally rained every single morning and evening when I was walking to and from school, my school shoes were permanently wet. When it's nice there, it's lovely, but it really does rain A LOT! It's on the Western edge of Dartmoor, so warm wet air mass rising over the moors drops on you.

In reply to puppythedog:

I've been in Glasgow four years after a couple working in Kendal (worth considering with a young family) and before that studying in Sheffield.

Obviously you'll struggle to beat Sheffield for sheer convenience of getting out on rock but Glasgow has been brilliant so far. It is a bit of a mission getting to a lot of crags but the climbing scene at TCA/GCC more than makes up for this- very friendly, easy to find partners at all levels and ages and most people seem keen to get out and do something when the weather is good.

You've also got three universities, huge range of bars and cafe's etc and plenty of free cultural stuff available, especially in the West End. House prices are also reasonable if you pick the right area.

In reply to kwoods:


Loo roll? Must be for the really trouser-filling climbs! My vote for this goes to Stonefall Crack Direct at Dumby.

M

In reply to puppythedog:

Overall, I think Scotland is a marvellous country.

I have lived in England, Ireland and Scotland, all for 6 years or more. I am very proud to be Irish (6 nations loyalty is Ireland first and Scotland a close second) and I really enjoy city breaks in England (London, Liverpool and Newcastle are all terrific for a good city weekend) but Scotland really takes the biscuit for a mountaineer. The climate is not any worse than England or Ireland neither and winter climbing conditions are a good deal more reliable than England or Wales.

M

In reply to girlymonkey:

Near Barnstaple. Tavistock must attract all the rain as Barnstaple is sunny all the time! I imagine Glasgow is also far drier than the highlands.

It was a difficult place to live in terms of the driving distance to go and do anything.

In reply to puppythedog:
Thanks everyone for your responses.
Options remain open but planning a trip to check it out.
Where in Glasgow would be nice?