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Nalle Hukkataival has made what could be the most awaited first ascent in bouldering history by finally linking the half a dozen moves that made up what used to be the Lappnor project at Lappnor ~100km east of Helsinki, Finland. Now it will be known as The Burden of dreams, the world's first...Read more
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In reply to Removed User:
I was reliably informed that a 7A Boulder is 7a tech, 6B 6b etc so 9a tech?
I was reliably informed that a 7A Boulder is 7a tech, 6B 6b etc so 9a tech?
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In reply to puppythedog: the British tech grade doesn't work that way. In fact it doesn't work above 6c.
Amazing looking bloc, truly next level stuff.
Andy F
Amazing looking bloc, truly next level stuff.
Andy F
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In reply to UKC News:
Great short passage from Nalle describing his experience, that. It resonates so much with me, and I'm sure anyone else who likewise has spent time (albeit much less at a much more humble level) projecting a hard boulder problem. Really inspiring.
Great short passage from Nalle describing his experience, that. It resonates so much with me, and I'm sure anyone else who likewise has spent time (albeit much less at a much more humble level) projecting a hard boulder problem. Really inspiring.
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In reply to aln:
Dear God please don't let the UKC thread announcing the world's first 9a become a debate about whether the whole "what's he done grit" thing is funny.
Dear God please don't let the UKC thread announcing the world's first 9a become a debate about whether the whole "what's he done grit" thing is funny.
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In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Too late.
> Dear God please don't let the UKC thread announcing the world's first 9a become a debate about whether the whole "what's he done grit" thing is funny.
Too late.
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In reply to andy farnell:
I know Andy although I was very strongly advised that 6A Boulder means 6a tech because we got the tech grades from Font.
Not to detract though.
This some how feels more significant than Change. Not sure why.
I know Andy although I was very strongly advised that 6A Boulder means 6a tech because we got the tech grades from Font.
Not to detract though.
This some how feels more significant than Change. Not sure why.
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Now all he has to do is repeat it so we can get a video. Shouldn't be that hard, it's only like 6 moves.
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In reply to puppythedog:
I know what you mean. Its probably because its the next number. Not grade. Number. This hasn't happened in bouldering grades for over 35 years.
Andy F
> This some how feels more significant than Change. Not sure why.
I know what you mean. Its probably because its the next number. Not grade. Number. This hasn't happened in bouldering grades for over 35 years.
Andy F
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In reply to andy farnell:
The thing is that significance is purely a quirk of the grading system. One grade is one grade, no more no less. In V grades it's just V17.
I think it's significant because the 8c+ grade has not been very firmly established yet either and 8c has been around for years with few proposals of anything harder. So this may open up grades at the top end of bouldering a bit. When the top grade is 9a climbers will perhaps be less reluctant to give something 8c+ now.
I wonder who will get the first repeat? Looks like it might be something that suits Rustam Gelmanov.
The thing is that significance is purely a quirk of the grading system. One grade is one grade, no more no less. In V grades it's just V17.
I think it's significant because the 8c+ grade has not been very firmly established yet either and 8c has been around for years with few proposals of anything harder. So this may open up grades at the top end of bouldering a bit. When the top grade is 9a climbers will perhaps be less reluctant to give something 8c+ now.
I wonder who will get the first repeat? Looks like it might be something that suits Rustam Gelmanov.
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In reply to Niblet:
I'm quite sure it's on video already. And Blue Kangoo Films are making a short documentary of Nalle climbing it...
In the mean time, here are some of their Vids:
vimeo.com/user12344885
I'm quite sure it's on video already. And Blue Kangoo Films are making a short documentary of Nalle climbing it...
In the mean time, here are some of their Vids:
vimeo.com/user12344885
In reply to Niblet:
He had a camera rolling so it's on tape.
> Now all he has to do is repeat it so we can get a video. Shouldn't be that hard, it's only like 6 moves.
He had a camera rolling so it's on tape.
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In reply to puppythedog:
Seriously? If so, I'd try and lose that reliance fast, 'cos it ain't right!
> I was reliably informed that a 7A Boulder is 7a tech, 6B 6b etc so 9a tech?
Seriously? If so, I'd try and lose that reliance fast, 'cos it ain't right!
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In reply to Fraser:
Tone never comes across well on the internet. I should have put the reliably in quotes
It was on here a while ago. The outcome of the discussion was that I was not as good as I thought I was at climbing.
Tone never comes across well on the internet. I should have put the reliably in quotes
It was on here a while ago. The outcome of the discussion was that I was not as good as I thought I was at climbing.
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In reply to UKC News:
Outstanding - can't think of a more deserving guy to get the prize - or to judge it's validity.
Outstanding - can't think of a more deserving guy to get the prize - or to judge it's validity.
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In reply to stp:
I think the top bouldering grades have been compressed for a while. Every man and his dog is climbing 8C, but very few have wanted to give things 8C+ or harder. It is only a grade, an extra level of difficulty more, but 9A does sound more impressive than V15.
Andy F
> The thing is that significance is purely a quirk of the grading system. One grade is one grade, no more no less. In V grades it's just V17.
> I think it's significant because the 8c+ grade has not been very firmly established yet either and 8c has been around for years with few proposals of anything harder. So this may open up grades at the top end of bouldering a bit. When the top grade is 9a climbers will perhaps be less reluctant to give something 8c+ now.
> I wonder who will get the first repeat? Looks like it might be something that suits Rustam Gelmanov.
I think the top bouldering grades have been compressed for a while. Every man and his dog is climbing 8C, but very few have wanted to give things 8C+ or harder. It is only a grade, an extra level of difficulty more, but 9A does sound more impressive than V15.
Andy F
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In reply to andy farnell:
Can you expand on the above for a bouldering idiot (me); are you saying the first 8C problems where put up 35 years ago (or problems that are now graded 8C anyway)?
Or the first problems in the 8th grade?
> I know what you mean. Its probably because its the next number. Not grade. Number. This hasn't happened in bouldering grades for over 35 years.
Can you expand on the above for a bouldering idiot (me); are you saying the first 8C problems where put up 35 years ago (or problems that are now graded 8C anyway)?
Or the first problems in the 8th grade?
Post edited at 09:47
In reply to UKC News:
Very cool news - now for the Sisu Project?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=7093
Very cool news - now for the Sisu Project?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=7093
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Ok, a quick google has answered my own question above, the first 8C being Dreamtime in 2000 (from Nalle's own blog incidentally). He also talks about compression/deflation of grades at 8C. Interesting stuff.
http://nalle-hukkataival.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/bouldering-grades-everythin...
What was the first 8A then, still impressed if that was early 80's?
In reply to Phil79:
The first 8th grade problems. The first one in font was around 84, but there were ones put up in the States around 75.
Andy F
> Can you expand on the above for a bouldering idiot (me); are you saying the first 8C problems where put up 35 years ago (or problems that are now graded 8C anyway)?
> Or the first problems in the 8th grade?
The first 8th grade problems. The first one in font was around 84, but there were ones put up in the States around 75.
Andy F
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In reply to Phil79:
The first 8a problems were put up around 1973-5 by Jim Holloway. The first problem graded 8a was c'Etait Demain in '84 by Jackie Godoffe. The first 8C was (possibly) Dreamtime in 2000 and there's been a load of shuffling of problems in the 8B-8C+ bracket ever since. Nalle has been very open about the issues with grades at that level and been quite conservative with his grades in the past so this is a pretty huge statement. Plus everyone seems to have nothing but respect for him which probably adds to the excitement.
edit: Since you asked, here's a bit about Jim Holloway's problems: https://www.8a.nu/?IncPage=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.8a.nu%2Farticles%2FShowArticle...
The first 8a problems were put up around 1973-5 by Jim Holloway. The first problem graded 8a was c'Etait Demain in '84 by Jackie Godoffe. The first 8C was (possibly) Dreamtime in 2000 and there's been a load of shuffling of problems in the 8B-8C+ bracket ever since. Nalle has been very open about the issues with grades at that level and been quite conservative with his grades in the past so this is a pretty huge statement. Plus everyone seems to have nothing but respect for him which probably adds to the excitement.
edit: Since you asked, here's a bit about Jim Holloway's problems: https://www.8a.nu/?IncPage=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.8a.nu%2Farticles%2FShowArticle...
Post edited at 10:03
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In reply to puppythedog:
Surely you realise they are measuring different things? UK tech is the hardest move and font the whole problem. Perhaps 1 uk 6a move is f6a but many may be as high as f6b/f6b+.
I think it is correct that UK grades did come from font but now they mean different things and have further diverged.
http://www.rockfax.com/publications/grades/
http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/article.php?p=uk-grades
> I was reliably informed that a 7A Boulder is 7a tech, 6B 6b etc so 9a tech?
Surely you realise they are measuring different things? UK tech is the hardest move and font the whole problem. Perhaps 1 uk 6a move is f6a but many may be as high as f6b/f6b+.
I think it is correct that UK grades did come from font but now they mean different things and have further diverged.
http://www.rockfax.com/publications/grades/
http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/article.php?p=uk-grades
Post edited at 10:42
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In reply to andy farnell and Lemony:
Thanks both, very informative. Looks like it could be truly 'next level' then?
Also (to my punters eye) it looks an incredibly 'simple' line (pretty straight, consistent 45 degree overhang, not many moves, a few crimps) therefore the moves themselves must be proper hard, nowhere to hide, a pure power problem?
As I understand it, there's been some discussion in bouldering about the limits of such problems (i.e. people saying there is a limit to how hard you can pull, and 8C+ maybe almost it?), and harder problems will be combinations of different styles, or incredibly morph. Perhaps this proves there is still room to squeeze more out?
Strikes me as the kind of problem someone like Ben Moon would like.
Thanks both, very informative. Looks like it could be truly 'next level' then?
Also (to my punters eye) it looks an incredibly 'simple' line (pretty straight, consistent 45 degree overhang, not many moves, a few crimps) therefore the moves themselves must be proper hard, nowhere to hide, a pure power problem?
As I understand it, there's been some discussion in bouldering about the limits of such problems (i.e. people saying there is a limit to how hard you can pull, and 8C+ maybe almost it?), and harder problems will be combinations of different styles, or incredibly morph. Perhaps this proves there is still room to squeeze more out?
Strikes me as the kind of problem someone like Ben Moon would like.
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In reply to puppythedog:
Who by?!
> I was reliably informed that a 7A Boulder is 7a tech, 6B 6b etc so 9a tech?
Who by?!
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In reply to UKC News:
I'm incredibly impressed by this. Yes, the climbing is impressive, but at the end of the day its only 'really strong guy pulls 6 hard moves on marginally smaller holds than the last guy'. What I find super impressive is his mental capacity. To want something so much that you'd dedicate so many hours, days, years etc to something that may not even be possible (for you or anyone else) with the self belief that you will be able to do it is amazing. I can only think of 3 climbs that I've spent more than 3 sessions on before I've had enough. Great name too, really sums up his journey.
I'm incredibly impressed by this. Yes, the climbing is impressive, but at the end of the day its only 'really strong guy pulls 6 hard moves on marginally smaller holds than the last guy'. What I find super impressive is his mental capacity. To want something so much that you'd dedicate so many hours, days, years etc to something that may not even be possible (for you or anyone else) with the self belief that you will be able to do it is amazing. I can only think of 3 climbs that I've spent more than 3 sessions on before I've had enough. Great name too, really sums up his journey.
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In reply to Somerset swede basher:
... and hamlet is so much ink and paper.
> at the end of the day its only 'really strong guy pulls 6 hard moves on marginally smaller holds than the last guy'.
... and hamlet is so much ink and paper.
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In reply to Lemony:
I didn't say it wasn't impressive. I'm saying that I think the journey is even more impressive than the product.
I didn't say it wasn't impressive. I'm saying that I think the journey is even more impressive than the product.
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In reply to Somerset swede basher:
>"To want something so much that you'd dedicate so many hours, days, years etc"
I suppose if making history in you favorite pastime is within your grasp, that's got to provide some extra motivation to try just a wee bit harder. In some ways it now makes 8C+ even harder. Finding the motivation to do something that is practically impossible but is now just a second rate send is going to be tough.
>"To want something so much that you'd dedicate so many hours, days, years etc"
I suppose if making history in you favorite pastime is within your grasp, that's got to provide some extra motivation to try just a wee bit harder. In some ways it now makes 8C+ even harder. Finding the motivation to do something that is practically impossible but is now just a second rate send is going to be tough.
In reply to JLS:
Yes, I agree, certainly with the first bit anyway. With regards to making 8c+ mentally harder I guess it depends whether your motivation is to do something you've not done before or do something that hasn't been done before.
I find the mental capacity of any athlete who pushes what is currently possible in their sport a little further fascinating. I think this one is easier to relate to though as its a sport I take part in, albeit at a much reduced level.
Yes, I agree, certainly with the first bit anyway. With regards to making 8c+ mentally harder I guess it depends whether your motivation is to do something you've not done before or do something that hasn't been done before.
I find the mental capacity of any athlete who pushes what is currently possible in their sport a little further fascinating. I think this one is easier to relate to though as its a sport I take part in, albeit at a much reduced level.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Has there ever been such understated praise?
> Nice one on the first f9a - good effort
Has there ever been such understated praise?
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
Shall I improve the praise to your liking so you can further moderate it?
Shall I improve the praise to your liking so you can further moderate it?
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In reply to UKC News:
Awesome awesome effort. Totally Well deserved. And history has now been made...
Awesome awesome effort. Totally Well deserved. And history has now been made...
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
It also amused me. Nothing wrong with it fella
Amazing thing Nalle has done, so inspiring. It will be interesting to hear the dialogue it will kick up.
It also amused me. Nothing wrong with it fella
Amazing thing Nalle has done, so inspiring. It will be interesting to hear the dialogue it will kick up.
Post edited at 20:29
In reply to HeMa:
There's now a whole website including a cool looking trailer for it...
http://www.thelappnorproject.com/
> And Blue Kangoo Films are making a short documentary of Nalle climbing it...
There's now a whole website including a cool looking trailer for it...
http://www.thelappnorproject.com/
In reply to stp:
Looks good, hopefully they'll go a bit faster from trailer to an actual available film than they have with Kylmää Kiveä/Cold Rocks - the Finnish climbing story - which was a multi year project!
It's funny that Lappnor looks likely to become a destination for top boulderers now. Its a pretty "juntti" place - that sort of translate as redneck or hick (and people do have guns out there!) but in someways the English country bumpkin might be a better translation. When I went there was a very large, very dead moose in the back of pick up just next to where you park for the climbing. Someone was going to have meat for all the family and friends for months!
> There's now a whole website including a cool looking trailer for it...
Looks good, hopefully they'll go a bit faster from trailer to an actual available film than they have with Kylmää Kiveä/Cold Rocks - the Finnish climbing story - which was a multi year project!
It's funny that Lappnor looks likely to become a destination for top boulderers now. Its a pretty "juntti" place - that sort of translate as redneck or hick (and people do have guns out there!) but in someways the English country bumpkin might be a better translation. When I went there was a very large, very dead moose in the back of pick up just next to where you park for the climbing. Someone was going to have meat for all the family and friends for months!
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