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Mike Moore makes the case for voting Trump

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Pan Ron 26 Oct 2016

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsPlwhahHAo

"Voting for Trump will be the biggest F you in human history and it will feel good."

Seems to be going somewhat viral. While its not exactly the way Trump supporters are expressing their views, I imagine an awful large number of people whose views don't get aired are thinking exactly this.

Scary stuff. A rational choice results in massive disaster. Then what?
Post edited at 19:27
 winhill 26 Oct 2016
In reply to David Martin:

> Seems to be going somewhat viral. While its not exactly the way Trump supporters are expressing their views, I imagine an awful large number of people whose views don't get aired are thinking exactly this.

Not many of the polls are giving Trump much chance, he struggles due to the college system. I'm not sure the Brexit analogy works.

Interesting map of intentions here makes it look like a black/white face off:

https://medium.com/@ste.kinneyfields/do-you-know-this-graphic-i-made-it-her...

The weird thing is the popularity of Clinton, even among women voters, in many states young women preferred Bernie.

> Scary stuff. A rational choice results in massive disaster. Then what?

I'm not sure it's a rational choice but then the disaster is probably much less likely too. Especially if GOP lose the Senate.

But how can people say they face a dilemma? Clinton is so toxic it seems unlosable but putting up Trump practically guarantees it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-trust-unpopular_us_57969600e4b0...
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 aln 26 Oct 2016
In reply to winhill:

so toxic

What does that mean?

1
 winhill 26 Oct 2016
In reply to aln:

> so toxic

> What does that mean?

Read the link

'Clinton’s weakness in the polls has led many Republicans to grouse that their party had managed to nominate the one candidate with an even worse public image than Clinton’s. Even a senior White House aide privately noted the irony, describing the coming contest as a battle between two unlikable 1970s sitcom characters: “It’s Maude versus Archie Bunker.”'

Although it still doesn't quite explain why Clinton is such a turn off, to the extent that people would think Trump is a possible alternative.
KevinD 26 Oct 2016
In reply to winhill:

> Although it still doesn't quite explain why Clinton is such a turn off, to the extent that people would think Trump is a possible alternative.

As with most things going to be a whole raft of things. One is that she is seen very much as a member of the political class with close connections to other parts of the elite.
How Trump dodges that though is anyones guess.
 aln 26 Oct 2016
In reply to winhill:

I wasn't talking about the intricate details, it was the use of the modern cliche 'toxic', what does it mean?
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 wbo 26 Oct 2016
In reply to aln: Honestly? Unpalatable?

I don't know if you look at fivethirtyeight.com a lot but I'd recommend you listen to the newest podcast as it has a piece on Hilary C.'s 'unpopularity'. If you look at the actual results of polling the question 'are you voting for your candidate or against the other' Hillary gets pretty normal results - lots of people are actually voting for her. A very high % of Trump supporters are not really supporters at all, they're just anti Clinton. She isn't going to win a popularity contest , but she's not way out of the ballpark. Trump is - there is no comparably unpopular candidate in recent history.

 bouldery bits 26 Oct 2016
In reply to winhill:

> Read the link

> 'Clinton’s weakness in the polls has led many Republicans to grouse that their party had managed to nominate the one candidate with an even worse public image than Clinton’s. Even a senior White House aide privately noted the irony, describing the coming contest as a battle between two unlikable 1970s sitcom characters: “It’s Maude versus Archie Bunker.”'

Interestingly on the other thread you have managed to morph in to both Maude and Archie! Top work you

 aln 26 Oct 2016
In reply to wbo:

> Honestly? Unpalatable?

> I don't know if you look at fivethirtyeight.com a lot but I'd recommend you listen to the newest podcast as it has a piece on Hilary C.'s 'unpopularity'. If you look at the actual results of polling the question 'are you voting for your candidate or against the other' Hillary gets pretty normal results - lots of people are actually voting for her. A very high % of Trump supporters are not really supporters at all, they're just anti Clinton. She isn't going to win a popularity contest , but she's not way out of the ballpark. Trump is - there is no comparably unpopular candidate in recent history.

I think you're replying to the wrong person. I didn't say 'Honestly?' or 'Unpalatable'
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Jim C 26 Oct 2016
In reply to winhill:

Not to worry, You Tube claims to have video where the electronic voting screens have been fiddled so that when they touch the screen for Trump, it will select Clinton.

They are nowasking Trump voters to video their votes!
 winhill 27 Oct 2016
In reply to wbo:

> I don't know if you look at fivethirtyeight.com a lot but I'd recommend you listen to the newest podcast as it has a piece on Hilary C.'s 'unpopularity'. If you look at the actual results of polling the question 'are you voting for your candidate or against the other' Hillary gets pretty normal results - lots of people are actually voting for her. A very high % of Trump supporters are not really supporters at all, they're just anti Clinton.

Did you notice the map came from data at fivethirtyeight?

I haven't got time for a podcast but it seems to confirm her unpopularity amongst those Trump supporters who are just anti Clinton. Those are the ones not her support, although some of her support will be those young women, 20-29, who preferred Bernie (and who Clinton was targeting as key support) for some weird reason.

According to the popular vote figs Trump has twice been neck and neck, 45% v 46% but even then he loses due to the college system, which is probably doing it's job and demonstrates how a crude PR system could let someone like Trump walk in.
Pan Ron 27 Oct 2016
In reply to winhill:

> Not many of the polls are giving Trump much chance, he struggles due to the college system. I'm not sure the Brexit analogy works.

Maybe not. But given the somewhat unexpected way votes have been going as of late, Dave Martin polsters are tipping Trump on this one. In Trump's case especially, being such a polarising candidate and one who clearly says what is not meant to be said, those polled might themselves be unwilling to say the un-say-able ("I'm voting Donald"). Voting day could be very different, and I suspect many are publicly putting on a show of dropping their support as he is pushing the limits of what one can overtly state.

> I'm not sure it's a rational choice but then the disaster is probably much less likely too. Especially if GOP lose the Senate.

Its rational in as far as Trump's protectionist measures would, in the medium term at least, ensure that the jobs automobile workers enjoy wouldn't vanish. I suspect in America, where it is considered entirely acceptable to screw workers in the interests of higher executive pay and dividends, and where this may occur in perfectly solvent companies, protectionist measures are about all the average blue-collar worker has in his favour. These aren't people who are going to be offered retraining and aid to transition in to more sustainable areas of employment. They'll be unceremoniously dumped in the jobless-homeless box with little ability to get out. I can fully understand why they would vote for the only person making a cast-iron statement (for all that's worth from Trump) in support of their livelihoods.
Andy Gamisou 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Jim C:

> Not to worry, You Tube claims to have video where the electronic voting screens have been fiddled so that when they touch the screen for Trump, it will select Clinton.

> They are nowasking Trump voters to video their votes!

If you were going to tamper with the machines wouldn't it make more sense to record Trump votes at the backend as Clinton votes whilst still displaying the selection as Trump at the frontend?

Jimbocz 27 Oct 2016
In reply to David Martin:

I'm confused by what MM is trying to say. Is he saying that he'll vote for Trump because it's a big F You? Is he explaining why morons will vote for Trump but they cut out the part where he explains why this type of temper tantrum accomplishes nothing?

I'm not thrilled that this video is going viral as it seems like a well expressed version of the "I'll vote Trump because he's not a politician and will put the cat amongst the pigeons" argument .
 neilh 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Jimbocz:

MM is pro Clinton. he is just in the clip trying to achive empathy with trump voters. he then destroys their arguments.

Its part of his film on MM in trumpland.

The clip is out of context, but still quite chilling.
Jimbocz 27 Oct 2016
In reply to neilh:

Thanks , that makes sense. My world is spinning the right way now.
 neilh 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Jimbocz:

I initially thought the same thing!
Pan Ron 28 Oct 2016
In reply to neilh:

I haven't seen Trumpland, but as I understood he was simply trying to show the thinking behind support for Trump - their voice, as such. He's clearly not pro-Trump and I believe he also makes similar statements for support of Clinton.

As you say, it is missing context, but that simply means we don't get a picture of what his own views are from the clip. But that isn't really the point of it.
 neilh 28 Oct 2016
In reply to David Martin:

He is trying to understand where Trump voters are coming from, and very clearly states there case. It is well worth watching the clip.

By the way he then gets them to think about changing their votes to Clinton.
Pan Ron 28 Oct 2016
In reply to neilh:

I posted it - I've definitely watched it

> By the way he then gets them to think about changing their votes to Clinton.

I'd imagine he, of all people, would probably have some success there. Less so because he is a Flint man himself, but mostly because he shows a level of understanding of where they are coming from in their views. I've been banging on about this for a while, but it is the complete antithesis of the vilification of Trump and his supporters that we are used to seeing. That demonisation may actually be resulting in the high level of support for Trump.

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