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Quick Q/advice on DMM Apex axes

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 JayPee630 01 Nov 2016
Buying a pair of DMM Apex axes. It says they come with T rated ice picks as standard.

Do I then need to buy the mixed pick and mountain adze for Scottish climbing, or are the picks they come with OK?

Cheers.
 lithos 01 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

T is the beefy one. B rated picks are the weaker (usually thinner)

T = tough
B= broken
 beardy mike 01 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630: the adze on the T rated is very small. And to be honest the hammer is nigh on useless because they are so cranked. The crank is useful some of the time, but on more moderate ground, especially pulling over the top of an ice fall onto flat ground it can be a pain as it becomes very difficult to get a good stick. I tend to place them at the edge and climb up and onto them...

 TobyA 01 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

I've done a reasonable amount of mixed with these ones now http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6189 and have had no problems with the B picks.

Mike's right about the hammer being tiny, on the Switches its really hard to hammer gear in with them.
OP JayPee630 02 Nov 2016
In reply to lithos:

I know the difference between T and B rated picks. My point was that they come with T rated ICE picks. And the T rated mixed picks and adze come as extra.

But are question was are the ones they come with OK for Scottish and Alpine mixed, or do I need to add another chunk of cash to buy the mixed picks?
 ianstevens 02 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

They'll be fine. Petzl have a similar system, the standard "ice" picks have donw me fine up to V mixed. They're just a slightly different shape. Might make a difference at IX/X and up, not for most mortals.
1
OP JayPee630 02 Nov 2016
In reply to ianstevens:

Thank you.
 beardy mike 02 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

Yeah they will be fine, they just aren't as strong. But they will be much better for ice penetration. I tend to keep a set of picks for ice climbing and a set for mixed otherwise you are forever grinding back picks to get a razor sharp tip for ice... mixed just wrecks the tip in about 10 minutes...
OP JayPee630 02 Nov 2016
In reply to beardy mike:

I just want them for low/mid grade Scottish winter and alpine summer routes. Am a bit torn between getting some Flys instead of them, but I've been convinced otherwise by friends...
 DaveHK 02 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

> question was are the ones they come with OK for Scottish and Alpine mixed, or do I need to add another chunk of cash to buy the mixed picks?

I have Switches which came with the same ice picks as the apex do. I climbed for a season and a bit on them almost all mixed up to VII. I'm not a big lad but they never gave me a moments worry. They are much beefier than the ice picks on my old Quarks. I've only just got a pair of mixed picks for this year and they really don't look that different.

 beardy mike 02 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

To be honest for low grade I'd say the crack is just too extreme. But that's just me. Others seem to find them fine.
OP JayPee630 02 Nov 2016
In reply to beardy mike:

Yeah, for sure. Not to mention looking like a doofus flailing up Grade IIs with a pair of axes that look like that!
 Steve Woollard 02 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

I've got a pair of Apex's and think they're great.

I've got Ice picks which I only use on icefalls e.g. Norway, and Mixed picks which I use in Scotland and the Alps. Both sets of picks are T rated.

The hammer is awkward to use but you'll develop the knack, and you'll rarely use it anyway.

But I would consider getting the Mountain adze for Scotland as it'll make digging bucket seats, snow bollards etc easier
 beardy mike 02 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

Flailing? Well I doubt that will be the case. But you certainly need to modify the way you use the tools on easy ground to work your way around the crank and use them in a slightly more awkward way which is not really what you need when first learning. But that's only my opinion. You see plenty of people using them for that sort of ground. Personally if I was buying, I'd go for something intermediate unless of course you are planning on racing through the grades quickly. If so you can just put up with the crank until such time as you actually need it.The converse side of the crank is that on steep, mushroomed ice, you get really excellent sticks. So horses for courses!
OP JayPee630 02 Nov 2016
In reply to beardy mike:

I'm a bit stuck between the Flys and the Apexs. Have to stick with DMM, otherwise I'd get Quarks probably as they are bit between those two.
 beardy mike 02 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

We'll just ask where you see yourself in 4 years time? Axes easily last for a decade if you're nothinking using that often. If you want to be doing harder routes soon, then you've got your answer. There's not that many people who haven't got at least a couple of grade v's in them if they want it to be so. But you may not be interested in that?
 jezb1 02 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

Whilst the Apex's curve is quite dramatic, more so than the rebels I replaced, I think the flys aren't curved enough (by today's standards).
OP JayPee630 02 Nov 2016
In reply to jezb1:

Yeah, that's my experience, I'd actually want something between the 2 axes. Anyway, going to go for the Apexs. Thanks for advice all.
 DaveHK 02 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:

Flys should only really show their limitations at above VI. Apex are so similar to the Switches that they're highly unlikely to be the limiting factor in your climbing. The big difference is the ease of use on more moderate terrain where more technical axes can be a bit of a PITA (although there are work arounds). I think the Apex look like an excellent compromise in this regard.
 CurlyStevo 02 Nov 2016
In reply to JayPee630:
The quarks are not very robust the upper triggers especially so. Also the metal in the head is quite soft when used for mixed.

Out of the axes that are easy to obtain and view I'd buy vipers if I was going for that sort of axe. But I'm sure the DMM axes are good too.
Post edited at 15:57
 CurlyStevo 02 Nov 2016
In reply to DaveHK:
Personally I think leashless climbing (with tethers) is less faff and more natural. If the OP wants to use this type of system I think that at around grade IV / V you can find ground steep enough a decent curve in the axe and dual grip rests can start to show their utility.
Post edited at 15:43

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