UKC

The affect of cold temperatures on holds

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 GridNorth 05 Nov 2016
I know that you get more friction in colder temperatures and that it is most obvious on grit. What do people think about the friction on indoor holds? I ask because a few days ago the temperature dropped significantly and at my local wall my feet were slipping all over the place on newish holds and routes that I have previously not had any problems with. How much is to do with the hold and how much the rubber or was it just me? Has anyone else experienced this?

Al
 jon 05 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

> I ask because a few days ago the temperature dropped significantly and at my local wall my feet were slipping all over the place on newish holds and routes that I have previously not had any problems with.

Condensation?

 Allovesclimbin 05 Nov 2016
In reply to jon:

Limestone seems to have more friction when warm as do other smooth rock types , but sandstone and grit ( or course sandstone !?) seem better in the cold , any physicists out there to apply friction coefficient theories to this ? ( sounds like our usual pub conversation !
2
OP GridNorth 05 Nov 2016
In reply to jon:

Could be, although I have to say that wasn't apparent at the time.

Al
 climbingpixie 05 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

I don't notice a difference with the holds but if it's cold my skin gets 'glassy' and there's reduced friction on the holds until it warms up a bit. And cold rubber is obviously crap - I've noticed this particularly if I've left my rock shoes in a cold car before putting them on.
 Timmd 05 Nov 2016
In reply to Allovesclimbin:
Tyres seem to need to be warm in F1, and hands sweat less when it's colder which would be more apparent on gritstone than limestone I'm thinking. I've never known my feet to slip off a hold on gritstone during the summer or struggle to stick compared to colder weather - like my hands have at times.
Post edited at 13:05
OP GridNorth 05 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

It's worth adding that my hands were slipping as well and it wasn't because of sweat.

Al
Removed User 05 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

Ny impression is that humidity plays a bigger role than temperature.
So if the drop in temperature resulted in your wall closing off ventilation and/or switching heaters on, then the
humidity may well have been higher, more than offsetting the reduction in temperature.
 bouldery bits 05 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:
I get worse when it's super cold which I think is a bigger factor in my lack of success than the holds!
Post edited at 14:03
OP GridNorth 05 Nov 2016
In reply to bouldery bits:

That's is also the case for me, especially as I have got older but I am specifically interested in what I perceived to be a lack of friction on the holds or at least a reduction in friction.

Al
 Bulls Crack 05 Nov 2016
In reply to climbingpixie:

Yep - when my fingers are cold they're glassy and can slip off anything flat or slopey. I need to get the warmed-up and softened or, increasingly, I don't climb when it's cold!
 stp 07 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

Probably because the rubber is harder when it's colder so less able to mold itself into the texture of the holds.

Maybe in the future there will be different rubbers for different conditions. A softer rubber compound would be used for low temperatures.
 1poundSOCKS 07 Nov 2016
In reply to Allovesclimbin:

> Limestone seems to have more friction when warm as do other smooth rock types

But polished limestone in the sun has less in my experience.
 philhilo 09 Nov 2016
In reply to stp:

I think 5.10 already rate their 2 different rubbers, Stealth and Onyx, for different temps, check out their website for details.
 stp 09 Nov 2016
In reply to philhilo:

Interesting.

I found this page where they list 4 different rubber compounds with different hardnesses but no mention of temperature specifics.

http://www.fiveten.com/explore/technology/climbing/
 krikoman 09 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

> I know that you get more friction in colder temperatures and that it is most obvious on grit. What do people think about the friction on indoor holds? I ask because a few days ago the temperature dropped significantly and at my local wall my feet were slipping all over the place on newish holds and routes that I have previously not had any problems with. How much is to do with the hold and how much the rubber or was it just me? Has anyone else experienced this?


Really, then why do F1 drivers go to such lengths to warm and keep warm their tyres?

I've always wondered why people think this is true, it's not something I've found from my own experience, which has been quite the opposite i.e. cold = less friction.

OP GridNorth 09 Nov 2016
In reply to krikoman:

It's not necessarily a view I subscribe to, indeed it's counter intuitive, but reading a lot of the threads on UKC many "Grit experts" do seem to be of the opinion that you get more friction in colder temperatures. Perhaps I don't climb hard enough for it to matter

Al
 krikoman 09 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

Same here
James Jackson 09 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

Do holds shrink in the cold too?

On a serious note - I expect the major change (mindful that when climbers talk of 'friction', they're talking about the whole system - rock, hands, sweat, chalk, rubber, etc etc) is that of sweatiness. I can't think of any major physical difference in the rock due to the minor temperature differences we're talking about.
 Jimbo C 09 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

Sloping gritstone holds (and indoor holds) just seem to feel greasy in warm temps. Maybe this is something to do with the viscosity of the natural grease on people's skin and the softness of the thin layer of fat just under the skin??

I get a sensation of having 'glassy' skin for the first route or two in the cold, but once the skin is abraded a little it feels like it really keys into the texture of the hold.
 Ean T 09 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

This article explains things well.

http://www.climbing.com/skills/learn-this-friction-science/
 stp 09 Nov 2016
In reply to krikoman:

I think we're talking about two different things here: friction for the hands and friction for the feet.

The friction on grit for the hands is simply much better when the temperatures fall, less sweat means super grippy.

Of course sweat has nothing to do with friction when it comes to climbing boots. It may well be slightly worse when cold, but the superior friction for the hands is what people are talking about when discussing gritstone..
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