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Will there ever be a new, quality 'secret' crag in these islands - the kind that were abundant in the 60's & 70's? Seems to me that we must be pretty much exhausted, apart from the usual 'esoteric gems'. Sad really, but it couldn't go on forever. Unless anybody's got something hidden away?
A climbing thread, of sorts...
A climbing thread, of sorts...
In reply to Greenbanks:
Must be a few major undeveloped crags in the west and northwest highlands, so yes - possibly.
Must be a few major undeveloped crags in the west and northwest highlands, so yes - possibly.
In reply to Greenbanks:
I can think of quite a few undeveloped, monumental crags and cliffs in Scotland straight off the top of my head. Far from the rock being 'exhausted', I'd suggest it's quite the opposite....
I can think of quite a few undeveloped, monumental crags and cliffs in Scotland straight off the top of my head. Far from the rock being 'exhausted', I'd suggest it's quite the opposite....
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In reply to Greenbanks:
Scotland - possibly; Ireland too - sea cliffs maybe. But England has given it all up I'd say
Scotland - possibly; Ireland too - sea cliffs maybe. But England has given it all up I'd say
In reply to Greenbanks:
Loads of obvious quality, before we even consider minor crags and esoterica. Loads of esoterica.
Loads of obvious quality, before we even consider minor crags and esoterica. Loads of esoterica.
In reply to Greenbanks:
Yes there is we have found a huge hidden limestone crag in the north west. Infact we are gob smacked weve bolted one route probably another 50 to go 5+ to at least 8a 25 metres yea no shit! Wait till may next year. Only three people know the location. Im wondering wether to tell paul clarke haha
Paul if your on here did you go to my new bouldering venue?
Cheers
Sam
Yes there is we have found a huge hidden limestone crag in the north west. Infact we are gob smacked weve bolted one route probably another 50 to go 5+ to at least 8a 25 metres yea no shit! Wait till may next year. Only three people know the location. Im wondering wether to tell paul clarke haha
Paul if your on here did you go to my new bouldering venue?
Cheers
Sam
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In reply to Greenbanks:
The only place that is vaguely exhausted is the Peak. Almost every other place I've explored has loads of new stuff to do. Just don't expect to turn up to Hobson Moor Quarry and find a handful of new VSs.
The only place that is vaguely exhausted is the Peak. Almost every other place I've explored has loads of new stuff to do. Just don't expect to turn up to Hobson Moor Quarry and find a handful of new VSs.
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In reply to aln:
It must be near Inchnadamph or possibly Durness. I don't know of any other limestone in the North west.
> North West of where?
It must be near Inchnadamph or possibly Durness. I don't know of any other limestone in the North west.
In reply to all:
Shipwreck cove is a pretty major new crag opened up by a 'development' in ethics.
I could tell you about two equivalent crags on the N Devon coast, but because of Devon bolting rules they'll have to remain secret for now.
Shipwreck cove is a pretty major new crag opened up by a 'development' in ethics.
I could tell you about two equivalent crags on the N Devon coast, but because of Devon bolting rules they'll have to remain secret for now.
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In reply to Greenbanks:
Must be lots of quarries (in use and disused) still to be developed. But will probably need a vast amount of cleaning and negotiating though.
I'm sure mister Gibson has a few in his future to do list.
Al
Must be lots of quarries (in use and disused) still to be developed. But will probably need a vast amount of cleaning and negotiating though.
I'm sure mister Gibson has a few in his future to do list.
Al
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In reply to Greenbanks:
There will be some pretty desent crags still to find in the more remote parts of Scotland.
There will be some pretty desent crags still to find in the more remote parts of Scotland.
Post edited at 16:15
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
For the abseilers on here, no doubt
;-0
> There will be some pretty descent crags still to find in the more remote parts of Scotland.
For the abseilers on here, no doubt
;-0
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In reply to Greenbanks:
Intrigued to know which crags from the 60s and 70s used to be considered secret.
But in general, yeah, sad to say but I think we've pretty much run out of rock in this country.
The 'secret' crags these days are going to be in Europe.
Intrigued to know which crags from the 60s and 70s used to be considered secret.
But in general, yeah, sad to say but I think we've pretty much run out of rock in this country.
The 'secret' crags these days are going to be in Europe.
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In reply to stp:
Gogarth seems an obvious example (when it was first 'discovered'). Also the likes of Binnein Shuas in the central highlands.
Gogarth seems an obvious example (when it was first 'discovered'). Also the likes of Binnein Shuas in the central highlands.
In reply to sammy5000:
Oh that little molehill? He'll have done 'em all already and a high and low level girdle.
Oh that little molehill? He'll have done 'em all already and a high and low level girdle.
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
So the chances of finding another Gogarth, or even half of one must surely be zero. Maybe not in some remote part of Scotland or Ireland. But for most UK climbers such places are no more accessible than many places in Europe. And the places in Europe will be better, have more routes plus much better weather.
So the chances of finding another Gogarth, or even half of one must surely be zero. Maybe not in some remote part of Scotland or Ireland. But for most UK climbers such places are no more accessible than many places in Europe. And the places in Europe will be better, have more routes plus much better weather.
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In reply to stp:
As noted already, Gogarth was the big one, but there always seemed to be mention of 'secret crags' within the circles I was on the fringes of, or in the mags of the day. Maybe it was also fuelled by witnessing the fairly secretive nature of lines on crags, or the rapid development of new crags (like Pembroke, Llech Ddu, or White Scar).
Its just an impression I have - no more.
> Intrigued to know which crags from the 60s and 70s used to be considered secret<
As noted already, Gogarth was the big one, but there always seemed to be mention of 'secret crags' within the circles I was on the fringes of, or in the mags of the day. Maybe it was also fuelled by witnessing the fairly secretive nature of lines on crags, or the rapid development of new crags (like Pembroke, Llech Ddu, or White Scar).
Its just an impression I have - no more.
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In reply to Greenbanks:
Isn't there a newish crag on the west coast of portland? Just needs cleaning I think.
Isn't there a newish crag on the west coast of portland? Just needs cleaning I think.
In reply to stp:
In what way better? Accessibility for 'most UK climbers', possible number of routes and weather aside, how can you get better than 'some remote part of Scotland or Ireland'?
> And the places in Europe will be better
In what way better? Accessibility for 'most UK climbers', possible number of routes and weather aside, how can you get better than 'some remote part of Scotland or Ireland'?
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
are those ones where records of the bouldering problems have been expunged?
> There will be some pretty desent crags still to find in the more remote parts of Scotland.
are those ones where records of the bouldering problems have been expunged?
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In reply to stp:
Zero even in some remote part of Scotland (can't speak for Ireland). Gogarth is so big and extensive. That said, there have been some very good smaller (2 pitch) crags discovered the last decade or so.
> So the chances of finding another Gogarth, or even half of one must surely be zero. Maybe not in some remote part of Scotland or Ireland.
Zero even in some remote part of Scotland (can't speak for Ireland). Gogarth is so big and extensive. That said, there have been some very good smaller (2 pitch) crags discovered the last decade or so.
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In reply to petestack:
Exactly. Better than Pabbay and Mingulay? I'd like to see it.
> how can you get better than 'some remote part of Scotland or Ireland'?
Exactly. Better than Pabbay and Mingulay? I'd like to see it.
In reply to stp:
I forgot about the western isles where bigger cliffs have probably been found in recent years.
I forgot about the western isles where bigger cliffs have probably been found in recent years.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Regards the peak..
There are still minor limestone crags avalible but the access and cleaning would be difficult. Plus the current limestone doesn't get climbed much tbh, see about 10 people a week on high tor!
Regards the peak..
There are still minor limestone crags avalible but the access and cleaning would be difficult. Plus the current limestone doesn't get climbed much tbh, see about 10 people a week on high tor!
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In reply to BloodyJam:
Ironic that you mention High Tor in the context of this thread as four big new routes have gone up this year.
There is plenty still to go at in the Peak if you are prepared to furkle around especally bouldering. If anyone is keen to bolt some nice mid grade stuff including a quality crystalline wall then check out No match for crag id:22111
> There are still minor limestone crags avalible but the access and cleaning would be difficult. Plus the current limestone doesn't get climbed much tbh, see about 10 people a week on high tor!
Ironic that you mention High Tor in the context of this thread as four big new routes have gone up this year.
There is plenty still to go at in the Peak if you are prepared to furkle around especally bouldering. If anyone is keen to bolt some nice mid grade stuff including a quality crystalline wall then check out No match for crag id:22111
In reply to petestack:
Sure some of the remote parts of Scotland and Ireland are very beautiful. But I meant in purely climbing terms. Any newly discovered crags over here are not going to match those in Europe. Besides many places in Europe have stunning scenery too. Different to the British Isles but just as beautiful in their own way. Add to that the weather and the cheap flights and there's not much comparison for most climbers.
Sure some of the remote parts of Scotland and Ireland are very beautiful. But I meant in purely climbing terms. Any newly discovered crags over here are not going to match those in Europe. Besides many places in Europe have stunning scenery too. Different to the British Isles but just as beautiful in their own way. Add to that the weather and the cheap flights and there's not much comparison for most climbers.
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In reply to Greenbanks:
Smugglers Terrace was a fairly recent discovery by Franco and chums, and has quality routes across the whole grade spectrum
Smugglers Terrace was a fairly recent discovery by Franco and chums, and has quality routes across the whole grade spectrum
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In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Just looked at the photos and description of Smugglers Terrace. Looks very impressive - the sort of find that would make me reconsider the wording of my OP.
For instance: Smugglers Terrace#photos
Cheers
Just looked at the photos and description of Smugglers Terrace. Looks very impressive - the sort of find that would make me reconsider the wording of my OP.
For instance: Smugglers Terrace#photos
Cheers
In reply to Greenbanks:
Thanks for a very interesting thread.
This was re-discovered and extensively developed fairly recently: Ynys Lochtyn It's hardly an insignificant crag. Other similar (but smaller) discoveries have also been made on the same stretch of coastline - http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=225743 - one long regarded as totally useless from a climbing perspective:
(1) "Cardigan offers little to the climber." [Climbers' Club Journal 1950]
(2) "The cliffs of the coastline have been examined at odd places, without anything of great value being discovered." [Climbers' Club Journal 1952]
(3) "Cardigan has many miles of comparatively trackless moorland, but little to attract the climber". [EC Pyatt Where to Climb in the British Isles, Faber & Faber 1960]
There may not be any Gogarths left to discover in Wales, but good, small crags continue to be found, often in quite unlikely locations. Eg: Craig yr Eglwys
New unclimbed outcrops up to 30m high are still being discovered in the Rhinogydd. Eg: Craig y Ffridd and Craig y Fotty / Clogau Bontdu
I've participated in well over 120 first ascents in Mid Wales this year, virtually all on previously unclimbed and undiscovered crags. It's all very much a case of 'seek and ye shall find'. As yet these crags remain 'secret' while development continues:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=279733
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=241420
(Edited for clarity.)
Thanks for a very interesting thread.
This was re-discovered and extensively developed fairly recently: Ynys Lochtyn It's hardly an insignificant crag. Other similar (but smaller) discoveries have also been made on the same stretch of coastline - http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=225743 - one long regarded as totally useless from a climbing perspective:
(1) "Cardigan offers little to the climber." [Climbers' Club Journal 1950]
(2) "The cliffs of the coastline have been examined at odd places, without anything of great value being discovered." [Climbers' Club Journal 1952]
(3) "Cardigan has many miles of comparatively trackless moorland, but little to attract the climber". [EC Pyatt Where to Climb in the British Isles, Faber & Faber 1960]
There may not be any Gogarths left to discover in Wales, but good, small crags continue to be found, often in quite unlikely locations. Eg: Craig yr Eglwys
New unclimbed outcrops up to 30m high are still being discovered in the Rhinogydd. Eg: Craig y Ffridd and Craig y Fotty / Clogau Bontdu
I've participated in well over 120 first ascents in Mid Wales this year, virtually all on previously unclimbed and undiscovered crags. It's all very much a case of 'seek and ye shall find'. As yet these crags remain 'secret' while development continues:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=279733
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=241420
(Edited for clarity.)
Post edited at 15:04
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In reply to Dave Williams:
Thanks - some great looking venues there.
As an ex-student of Aber (used to making the weekly trip up to Llanberis etc) I'm both surprised and yet somehow not at these 'discoveries'. There's a huge amount of upland moor inland from Aber - we used it mainly as a 60's equivalent of a bouldering venue.
Thanks - some great looking venues there.
As an ex-student of Aber (used to making the weekly trip up to Llanberis etc) I'm both surprised and yet somehow not at these 'discoveries'. There's a huge amount of upland moor inland from Aber - we used it mainly as a 60's equivalent of a bouldering venue.
In reply to ukb shark:
I didn't know that, good to know people are still enjoying high tor!
I spent a lot of summer clearing paths to access trad in dovedale. Stuff like John peel wall was still unapproachable in September! Must be stuff left down there too... although I haven't been about long enough to know if I was on a new line or a forgotten one.
Defo some good bouldering still developing! The P.....
Will check out Milltown Quarry.
I didn't know that, good to know people are still enjoying high tor!
I spent a lot of summer clearing paths to access trad in dovedale. Stuff like John peel wall was still unapproachable in September! Must be stuff left down there too... although I haven't been about long enough to know if I was on a new line or a forgotten one.
Defo some good bouldering still developing! The P.....
Will check out Milltown Quarry.
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In reply to Greenbanks:
Lived in Eire (SW Cork) for ten years. Many inland cliffs of 100ft or more with no recorded climbs on them. Some dramatic sea cliffs on the Mizen probably haven't seen much climbing. I certainly put up a few new routes.
I also think my dog got got a 1st accent along with me, up some diff/h.diff gully I climbed by mistake thinking it was an easier one nearby.
Lived in Eire (SW Cork) for ten years. Many inland cliffs of 100ft or more with no recorded climbs on them. Some dramatic sea cliffs on the Mizen probably haven't seen much climbing. I certainly put up a few new routes.
I also think my dog got got a 1st accent along with me, up some diff/h.diff gully I climbed by mistake thinking it was an easier one nearby.
In reply to BloodyJam:
Fascinating place. Be prepared for some bushwhacking and watch out for the quicksand
> Will check out Milltown Quarry.
Fascinating place. Be prepared for some bushwhacking and watch out for the quicksand
In reply to Bulls Crack:
No it isnt its a fantastic crag though. The most impressive piece of virgin well sorta virgin rock ive seen in a long time. Starts are a little rattly but the uper walls are impeccable limestone we will get a few routes bolted over the winter i hope! It is a three star venue as far as yorkshire limestone goes easily as good as dib scar.
Try out the new bouldering near ribblehead viaduct theres tonnes to go at. Though access could be an issue mail me for details.
Dont want the place crawling with beany wearing bellends!
No it isnt its a fantastic crag though. The most impressive piece of virgin well sorta virgin rock ive seen in a long time. Starts are a little rattly but the uper walls are impeccable limestone we will get a few routes bolted over the winter i hope! It is a three star venue as far as yorkshire limestone goes easily as good as dib scar.
Try out the new bouldering near ribblehead viaduct theres tonnes to go at. Though access could be an issue mail me for details.
Dont want the place crawling with beany wearing bellends!
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<beany wearing bellends>
Magnificently put, Sir
Magnificently put, Sir
In reply to Greenbanks:
What about well-known crags where access has been denied for years but then this situation changes and development starts in 'secrete'. I have heard rumors that climbers have been spotted on the 'other' side of Avon and that access to these crags might now change.
This would definitely be a welcome addition to the area, a great effort from the people who secured access and a slight coup for the people who have developed them in 'secrete'!
What about well-known crags where access has been denied for years but then this situation changes and development starts in 'secrete'. I have heard rumors that climbers have been spotted on the 'other' side of Avon and that access to these crags might now change.
This would definitely be a welcome addition to the area, a great effort from the people who secured access and a slight coup for the people who have developed them in 'secrete'!
In reply to Dave Perry:
Sorry, dogged ascents don't count for FAs!
> I also think my dog got got a 1st accent along with me, up some diff/h.diff gully I climbed by mistake thinking it was an easier one nearby.
Sorry, dogged ascents don't count for FAs!
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In reply to john arran:
C'mon. You're both barking up the wrong tree & taking the thread away from its real intention
C'mon. You're both barking up the wrong tree & taking the thread away from its real intention
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