UKC

Hello

I am looking for pants that I could use for alpine skiing, ski touring and winter climbing in Scotland.
For ski touring and winter climbing ski pants are too warm and bulky, so I was thinking about wearing hardshell pants with long johns when skiing on the slopes. Are hardshell pants warm enough for winter climbing in Scotland (never been there before in winter...)?

Is there a product that is versatile enough to be used in these various range or activities or should I spend all my savings and buy separate items?

Thanks.

In reply to adamas:

I tried on a pair of Arcteryx Psiphon pants yesterday & they would I think meet requirements for all three activities. Probably cost as much as three other pairs of pants too, though taking up less room.

In reply to adamas:

I use my Paramo Aspira salopettes for all those things but they're getting harder to get hold of. Long johns underneath for climbing and maybe lift accessed skiing depending on temps, just boxers underneath for touring.

Would you suggest softshell or hardshell pants for winter climbing?

Are waterproof pants really necessary or water repellent ones are generally enough, besides being more comfortable and durable?

In reply to adamas:

Personally I have only worn softshell trousers for all my winter activities for years now.
That said I spend more time touring than climbing and tend not to go out in really manky weather.

Until recently I had the Patagonia Backcountry Guides (old non windstopper ones) which would fit your criteria well. Add long base layer/powerstretch tights underneath as needed when cold.
Nice trousers but bloody expensive and a bit of a baggy fit for climbing.

Now have the Simond Alpinist, which for some reason has recently stopped being THE item shouted at people in threads like this. Not sure why as its essentially the same as the Gucci ones, but with a slimmer fit and a £40 price tag!

As mentioned above Paramo is another good option, if it fits you and you have the cash to splash.

In reply to Kahti:

And seem to fit bulkier thighs better than a lot of other brands I've tried.

In reply to adamas: what he says - soft shell over thermals are good, unless it's really sloppy then hard shell over thermals. The above ref'ed patGonia trousers are good but lots of other people make them

In reply to adamas:

Mountain Equipment G2 salopettes.

In reply to adamas:

Save your cash. I ski in my craghoppers. On bad days I pop on my Berghaus light weight waterproof trous. On really bad days I'll put on either silk or thick fleece long jons in the morning. The only issue is snow down the boots when skiing in powder. You can get some ski boot gaiters, but I ski powder so rarely I put up with damp socks for a few hours.

Thus whatever you already have just needs layering together to meet the need. The French will laugh at you of course as your not in fashion, but who cares.

In reply to adamas:



Snigger.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Mens Ski Trousers £

Mens Ski Pants ££

Mens Ski Pant £££

Why do shops charge more money just to remove the plural?

In reply to OP: Don't go skiing in just your pants.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:


You do the math

Shops do it because they can. Once you convince people they aren't just buying trousers but something special and cool American sounding you can charge for the image.

Its slightly unfortunate for the marketeers that 'pants' is a word used for pants in the UK.

In reply to adamas:

I once spent a week downhill skiing in hardshell salopettes by mistake (drunken packing). Some bad points from my pov:
Noise, button lift bum crinkle gets annoying and it never "feels right"
Low friction, not only when you take a tumble. I nearly fell out of a 2p chair lift that I shared with a rather rotund italian, with bad timing, as the chair rocked back before we lowered the guard.
Potentially very spendy if you take a slide where there is some small amount of exposed rock if conditions get bare.

IMO if you decide you really need/want a pair of hardshells for dealing with the likes of scottish rain/slush on walk ins get something for that and use them only for those kind of days/conditions. Though buying one item might seem like a saving I consider myself to have been lucky to get through that week skiing without having wrecked mine. Longevity of an expensive item aside, the swoshswoshswosh sound that they make soon gets old and I'd rather avoid it whenever possible even if softshell trews and gaiters might mean damp but not too cold(all the time) thighs. On whether a hardshell would be be warm enough with just a baselayer that comes down to how hot you run and what you are doing, particularly how long/often you might be stationary and whether you will likely be in contact with the ground/snow with your backside.

In reply to GrahamD:


Alternatively it could just be that they can't be bothered to relabel thousands of products and change all the webpages for the sake of some moany Brits (I'm sure I've complained in reviews in the past about the term too, but I'm quite at peace with now - very zen), when its quite clear what is meant.

I did just look on the Berghaus website and it appears they favour the word "trousers" for the majority of their lower body covering items - so pant-haters can do their shopping their safely (well, reasonably safely anyway).

In reply to adamas:

2 winters ago I spent a spent a fair bit of time trying on different pairs of "general purpose" troos for exactly the activities you mention.

I settled on Haglofs Rando Flex:

http://www.haglofs.com/gb/en/Pants/RANDO-FLEX-PANT-MEN/p/603428.2AT

Quite roomy lower legs, so fit fine over ski boots and stop you looking like an Italian lady. Vents, stretch softshell (but winter weight and very weather resistant). Put em on with some powerstretch tights/long john and spend the day enjoying the activity, not thinking twice about what you're wearing. Have yet to try the mythical Simond version to see how they compare for a £80 saving...

In reply to TobyA:

I have yet to reach that Zen like state. Most of us use British English and should call things by their British English name. Shops, after all, have no problem changeing the price into pounds so it shouldn't be beyong them to translate the name also.

its been a crap week, you can tell. I'm not going to help the OP very much by suggesting that Ron Hills or fleecy salopettes with or without light overtrousers work pretty well in the applications suggested, although for on piste ski holidays I have some TNF ski trousers bought somewhere in a sale, which are great for downhill but too warm for other stuff.

In reply to Kahti:


Happy to oblige you...

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/mens-alpinism-pant-id_8010075.html

I've compared the fabric closely with Rab's 'Matrix' as used in the Exodus jacket, and I'm damned if I can see any difference.

Downhill skiing, yes; winter climbing, yes. Ski touring; hmmm. Walking; hmmm. I think they're a bit heavy for that.

For ski touring and walking, the Alpine Light may be better; lighter, stretchier, more air permeable. I've worn them skiing late season (April, 3 Valleys). Admittedly, I was eventually stripped down to a just a T3 hoody on top, and a buff to prevent severe radiation burns...

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/alpinism-light-mens-trousers-id_8304123.html

Alternative Decathlon possibles for walking/touring: Forclaz 500 Warm (different this year, with thicker, fluffier lining; not entirely sure about this, but haven't tried them. Have been stitched into the previous versions for the last two winters for casual and walking use).

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/for-500-warm-m-trousers-black-id_8369747.html

In reply to GrahamD:

I reckon a fair number of us actually use Scottish English, Welsh English and Irish English

Looking forward to a pair of backcountry kegs, or breeks.
(I do actually agree with you about "pants" but hey, I've been stuck in a van in continual rain for the last 7 days, and I just ran out of gas, so I'll join the UKC troll catharsis™!)

In reply to captain paranoia:

From my limited time in the Simonds, I would put them as around as warm as the Gucci's. Which for me is perfect for touring in the actual cold months, although I run cold and will often have the thigh zips down - a big component of what makes these trews so good, and I still reckon having "fart chimneys" that didn't chafe would be possible and increase ventilation even further.
In spring I do often end up rolling them up into shorts for the ascent! One day when I'm rich enough to afford more than two pairs of trousers (or when my terras finally die and I look for a summer replacement) I would be keen to find something lightweight with removable mini-gaiters.

To the OP best way as always is to try on a bunch of different things and see what suits. Unfortunately decathlon are usually pretty bad at stocking Simond in store, but you can always order online and return what you don't want.

In reply to adamas:
Osatind pants from Bergans Slingsby range are really nice.
Only climbed in mine but they would def. fit over a ski boot.
Bruce

In reply to Kahti:


Don't get me wrong; the Alpinism trousers are brilliant, and insane value for money. Just too heavy for me for walking. I guess there's ski touring and there's ski touring.

I'm well enough off, and sufficiently odd that I have the Alpinism trousers, the Light, five pairs of 900 Warm (now rebranded 500), a pair of 900 (now 500), and two pairs of Rock Trousers. I have never allowed myself to spend the sort of money asked for 'name brand' trousers, unless in the old days of TK Maxx. And yet I've bought ten pairs of trousers from Decathlon, at various prices. Go figure...

In reply to adamas:

I and many others do all of those in Mammut Base Jump Pants. really hard wearing soft shell, excellent bits of kit. Longjohns underneath for climbing and really cheap waterproof trousers in the rucksack if needed.
Other trousers I use are the older Patagonia backcountry guides, again, excellent.

In reply to adamas:
Marmot Pro Tour pant is great, a durable warm softshell pant.

In reply to adamas:
Buffalo salopettes (pertex and pile) with reinforcing knee patches, not sure of model. Have used these in alps, winter climbing and for a little cross country skiing. Even on a hot day they can be made quite cool using the full length zips, which can however leave a lot of flapping material and show a lot of skin ! If I still went downhill skiing I would definitely use them.

In reply to adamas:

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. It sounds like Simond Alpinist are really a bargain. However, they may be too warm for ski touring since I do not have generally cold legs, I have gone snowshoeing in the Alps with temperature down to -20deg with summer mountaineering trousers (not softshell) and never wearing long johns.

In reply to adamas:


You're obviously a hardy soul... I wear long johns, Thinsulate liners and the Alpinism pants for on-piste downhill alpine skiing. And I cycle to work in shorts all year round.

As I said above, there's ski touring and ski touring. Snow shoeing is a low speed, high intensity activity that will generate a lot of heat in the legs and core. As will skinning uphill. Skiing downhill, on the other hand, involves a lot less effort, and a lot more wind chill. Winter climbing can involve a lot of standing around. Scottish winter can be pretty brutal.

You could buy the Alpinism, Alpinism Light AND the Forclaz Warm for the price of some of the other suggestions...

In reply to adamas:

What about gloves? Do you have any suggestion on gloves suitable both for winter climbing and downhill skiing?
I found a good deal on these Extremities Antora Peak GTX:

http://www.gore-tex.co.uk/product/extremities-antora-peak-glove-gtx/1415372...

Would they be too light for skiing?

Thanks.

In reply to Hay: i also have a pair of Osatind - nice, but the patagonia, mammut and some others are a bit better.

Re. Gloves Black Diamond punishers work well for climbing, walking, skiing on the flat and slopes and general farming. Mountain equipment randonee are nice but a big clunky

In reply to adamas:
I just wear winter trousers from Regatta or Craghoppers, which cost about £30. I wear very lightweight waterproof full length zip trousers on top if need be. I usually put the over trousers on top when climbing, but not if ski touring, until the long descents. With full length zips it's easy to take them off and on when touring. I would rather buy (more) good skis or climbing equipment than waste money on unnecessary expensive designer climbing clothes.

I buy my pants in Asda or Matalan and get can get 5 pairs for a fiver.

In reply to adamas:

I find that skiing destroys gloves and I don't need half as much dexterity so I usually wear something more leather based and warm.