UKC

Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi has resigned after suffering a heavy defeat in a referendum over his plan to reform the constitution.

In a late-night news conference, he said he took responsibility for the outcome, and said the No camp must now make clear proposals.

With most ballots counted, the No vote leads with 60% against 40% for Yes.

The turnout was nearly 70%, in a vote that was seen as a chance to register discontent with the prime minister.

"Good luck to us all," Mr Renzi told reporters. He said he would tell a Cabinet meeting on Monday afternoon that he was resigning, then tender his resignation to the Italian president.

Ok, where now for Italy?

In reply to Big Ger:

Interesting question. The logical response will be for the party to appoint a new leader rather than call an election. Renzi foolishly made the vote about his leadership, but presciently not about his party.

In reply to Big Ger:

They wouldn't consider.... a new government.... would they?

In reply to Big Ger:

I am only interested in how this might effect the price of Marmite.

In reply to Big Ger:
I was reading it could lead to an Italian general election as the vote was an overall statement of no confidence in their left wing government. People seem to be voting on the broader issue of Europeanism rather than on the specific issues they have a referendum on.. A bit wierd but that seems to be the case. So that would be interesting with France and Germany also going to General elections in the near future. I suppose the recent result was a vote on no confidence in the Renzi government but how they get to a general election is always unpredicatbly predictable in Italian politics. They like them a lot.
Merkel must be considering if she should part ground with Junker to save a Europe that may shatter without some flexibility in its four principles- especially the freedom of movement principle, if this is proving to divide Europe itself which it seems to be- evidenced by the fact that the right wing is getting very extreme and gaining political power. A nightmare scenario. She is the key, I think to retaining a Europeanism but only by reforming the constitution otherwise it will shatter I think and all "Europeanism" may disintegrate into excessive nationalism- a great pity as co-operation to some degree helps all.
Merkel will have to concede on some ideas to save the whole.

In reply to Big Ger:

My sister lives in France and says the press have grossly underestimated the lurch to the right and that Le Penne seems a real possibilty.....

I think Syria has severely tested Europe at a time when the economy is also difficult. The current european leaders think the Uk Brexit has at last given them the chance for complete unification whilst the populace seem to sense this new goal and reel away from it. It's complete shifting sands all round and a lot has been exposed.

In reply to MargieB:


It's worrying to think that if we took this as a weathervane for the reaction to mass migration, what is going to happen when climate change causes extreme flooding, droughts, failing crops and the decline of fish stocks? When all of those millions of people start moving around, how will the world react?

In reply to RyanOsborne:

Don't forget to throw in automation as well, so that even within 'well developed' areas there could be internal problems. Anyway famines I guess, war maybe, problem for UK is it is an net importer of food so needs stability to allow international trade in food to continue, although almost 50% of food is home grown and another quarter comes from close European countries (Netherlands, Spain, France, Ireland, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Belgium).

In reply to Big Ger:

It was always the same in Italian politics, high drama, but really nothing changes.

I predict - nothing much.

In reply to RyanOsborne:


Well that's easy, they can all come to the UK, are we not a rich nation?

In reply to Big Ger:

I understand Australia is the place to go?

In reply to Dr.S at work:


It's a very nice place, if you can stand the heat. The entry qualifications can be tight, but if you have a doctorate or the like you shouldn't have too much trouble.

I cannot wait to leave Australia to be honest.

In reply to MargieB:

Merkel must be considering if she should part ground with Junker to save a Europe that may shatter without some flexibility in its four principles- especially the freedom of movement principle, if this is proving to divide Europe itself .

I see this as who is going to blink first.
If Europe don't blink, and stick rigidly to their 4 principles , then I can see that the whole thing is likely to fragment sooner rather than later.

If the EU do blink, and they find can relax the 4 principles, for everyone, then the U.K. will still leave, but , may get a 'better deal.' because everyone gets it.
( it will then be a pity that they did not concede that during the 'negotiations' with David Cameron( remember him)

In reply to Dr.S at work:


Fvck Off, We're Full.
That's the correct response, I beleive, LOL.
Yep, you see that sticker on quite a few cars, up here in red neck Queensland.

In reply to Jim C:
Yep, the R-EU may look back nostalgically at Cameron's proposal and wish they'd compromised the day before the referendum vote instead of sticking their {Junker's} heals in.


This 18 month demand from R-EU to complete UK Brexit is really evidence of how spooked they are about the feelings of the citizens of R-EU. It's almost as if they want to look away from what is actually happening within europe!You know, rush it through and hope the rest don't notice, I hope Merkel can show her real politik skills instead of this idealism which is just plain blinkeredness to the realities. I think the R-EU has the potential to go far harder right than the UK would ever go. We may eventually even look soft.... and that's saying something.... but Farage, let's face it is a side show here. Not so these hard righters in France and Italy.
There's even a real right /left divide in Germany, though the recent result to the left suggests the history of this country stalls a hard right move. Anyway losing 2 out of the big European hitters would change the complexion of R-EU completely,

In reply to Big Ger:


What would you prefer? Build a wall and let people starve because they weren't fortunate enough?

In reply to RyanOsborne:

I said to let them all in, didn't I? It's the only humane thing to do.

In reply to Big Ger:

Yeah, but I know your isolationist Little Englander ways better than to think of you as sympathetic to people from outside your own country.

In reply to RyanOsborne:


Oooh, charming!

So we're agreed then, let them all in.

In reply to Big Ger:

It's best, isn't it, for each individual country to decide for itself how to deal with the colossal and increasing pressures caused by automation, drought etc. Much better than coming to multilateral agreements. Lots of work for the razor wire industry. sic
Globalisation on the other hand, by spreading the wealth, could do more to keep all those people where they'd rather be, at home.

In reply to Pete Pozman:

If you really believe that globalisation would "spread the wealth", then I've a bridge you may be interested in buying.

In reply to Big Ger:

Meanwhile, back at the OP;

In reply to Pete Pozman:
It has that effect in producing demand and jobs in developing countries but also the opposite effect because taxes are not reaped from these global companies that float above the ether . How do we make global companies pay back into these countries when there is no global tax system to re-distribute wealth when it becomes to concentrated when there is no global government?
This is the huge dilemma I can't figure out.
Should stick to OP though...

The comment on Germany leaving first is interesting but Merkel believes in A european vision. Can't see her going first. Can't see Germany voting hard right. France and Italy yes, Germany no. Even if the economy rather than immigration is the dominant issue.
Hamstrung?

In reply to Big Ger:

“Ruling the Italians is not difficult; it’s pointless.” Benito Mussolini.