UKC

Recently I've being trying to move things up a gear. I've been wondering to what extent it makes sense to train multiple days in a row and to what extent it is useful to complete more than one session a day. To give a concrete example, this week I rested on Monday, then completed Eva Lopez style deadhangs on Tuesday, repeaters on Wednesday (beastmaker style - ancap?) and on Thursday I did about 40 minutes of weights followed by aercap intervals 10 on, 10 off (4 sets). Would it possibly have been better to include multiple sessions on one day to have more rest days aftwards? Or maybe just to have skipped the repeaters to be fresher for the weights and aerocap after day off? Tomorrow I wanted to go bouldering in the morning and could go roped climbing in the afternoon. Does this make any (training) sense? (Would obviously be fun ). Anyway, I think you get the idea. By way of background, I should add that this is a pretty heavy week for me and plan to do less the week after - I know that I couldn't carry on like this every week! Interested to see what people think about this...

In reply to mike1979:

Its hard to say without knowing what your training goals / weaknesses are.

I'd say that's a lot of volume for a week, depending who you ask you need somewhere between 48 hours to 4 days recovery after a 'tendon heavy' power work out (eg: max / weighted hangs). The new Eric Horst book has some interesting things to say about micro-cycling different work out types in the same day though, I'd get that if your interested.

Bear in mind this is coming from someone who can't stick to a training program though, so maybe I'm just being lazy!

In reply to mike1979:
I often do fingerboarding (Lopez style or repeaters) in the morning before going to work as it only takes an hour or so. Then at lunch time I cycle to my local wall and do 40 mins of aerocap (10 mins on followed by 2 mins off). This works out pretty good if you want to do strength and endurance during the same phase. The following day is an easy day of aerocap then take a full day resting before repeating it all again. So that's two fingerboard and three aerocap session in a week which feels tiring but manageable for an oldie like me, mind you I only do this for a 4 week period.
During the power phase some days I do 30 mins of campusing at lunch time and then a short boulder session in the evening although there's a trade off in that the bouldering isn't going to be at your best.
I tried doing fingerboarding in the morning then route climbing in the evening and I couldn't quite manage it as the my fingers were too tired to be able to sustain routes.

In reply to mike1979:

My advice (based on experience) would be try it- but increase gradually and keep a detailed log of volume, as well as an A-E grade of how you feel (subjective) and how your training is progressing. You will see if progress stops or if you feel overtrained pretty quickly.

In reply to mike1979:

Sounds like a fairly light week in comparison to my experience of training plans on offer from coaches in the UK.

However, like the other guy said, increase your volume steadily and take rest days based on how you feel.

With regards to multiple sessions in a day, then why not? Your Lopez and repeaters are short sessions, so why not finish with some aero-cap? Rest the day after?

Always remember to do the most intense stuff at the start of the training day, as you won't be doing full max efforts if you've just spent 40min aero-capping

In reply to mike1979:

That's what I've been doing for years.
Seems to work well for me.

Intense stress to stimulate growth of muscles and tendons.
... then ...
Give them plenty-sufficient rest time to _accomplish_ that growth.
. . (Sleeping is key because then the growing muscles are _fully_ relaxed).

Then another round of intense stress.

Ken

In reply to mike1979:
Thanks for your responses! It was reading the fit club posts that led me to try upping the training volume in the first place. It's interesting to see how much some coaches (e.g. Tom Randall) recommend compared to others (e.g. Anderson brothers). The idea of doing just enough to stimulate improvement rather than flogging myself unnecessarily appeals but
even with careful recording of what I do I find it hard to notice real trends or to be sure how much is enough/too much. I think I'll keep nudging it up and see how it goes.
Cheers
Mike

In reply to Ally Smith:


which reassures me that I made the right decision to never get a professional training plan..... I could only ever follow one if I gave up my job, and then I wouldn't be able to afford to get to the crag to put its teachings in effect!

In reply to mike1979:

An interesting topic and also that you use Tom Randall and the Anderson brothers as examples. To me it seems there's a difference between the trends in the US which emphasizes more rest and Europe which is more training and few rest days. Dave Macleod favours the more days on approach to training and writes about it in his book 9 out of 10 climbers. He says research suggests more days on but shorter sessions is better and that you don't need to fully recover before each session. You do have lighter weeks though, reduced volume and intensity, when fuller recovery takes place. Though I think the example he uses is bouldering rather than dead hangs.

But really maybe it comes down to what is more practical for you. How much time do you have, how keen are you? If you want to optimize your training and have the time then train every day. But that doesn't necessarily mean doing deadhangs every day. There's a lot of other stuff you can do.



Yes definitely. It's generally considered better to do power (strength) before endurance and there's a concept called interference which says you shouldn't train strength and endurance at the same time because they can interfere which each other. Also rather than thinking in terms of climbing being purely about strength/endurance bear in mind it's primarily a skill sport so the more climbing you do the better.

I agree with others that your routine doesn't seem particularly heavy. It also seems overly focused on one exercise: dead hangs. Obviously fingers are very important in climbing but certainly not the only thing required. Climbing is a full body sport and there's no end of stuff you can do. Pulling, core, antagonist, legs and even flexibility can all be included in regular training. But most important is actual climbing which I think many sources say should make up at least 50% of ones training time.

Training only fingers is training a very small muscle group in the forearms so shouldn't take too much of your body's ability to recover. But if you've only got limited time or energy to train I'd suggest doing fingertip pull ups instead of hangs. These will train your fingers and pulling muscles together and as an exercise it better mimics what we do in climbing.