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I know a lot of younger forumites worry that they will never be able to buy a house, whilst us oldies mainly all own ours.
This is a big future problem for the next generation (along with pensions, health etc.etc)
Just been having a coffee with my nephew here in Delft, he's finishing his MA in architecture and we met another student friend on the course from Hong Kong and he was interested in UK housing, did we have social housing, buying, NHS and more.
They have much the same problems in Hong Kong, incredible expenses as a 25sq m housing space in the suburbs is about 500,000 euros and a small terrace house 2-3 million.
He was explaining how developers work to keep prices high and added to their pressure is that they are not allowed to get married until they have bought a house (I think this is from the girls family who forbid the marriage) renting is not an option. So more pressure to succeed and go for the money.
I know this won't help anyone here, but I was interested to hear the same problems effect youngsters the other side of the world, we are not alone.
This is a big future problem for the next generation (along with pensions, health etc.etc)
Just been having a coffee with my nephew here in Delft, he's finishing his MA in architecture and we met another student friend on the course from Hong Kong and he was interested in UK housing, did we have social housing, buying, NHS and more.
They have much the same problems in Hong Kong, incredible expenses as a 25sq m housing space in the suburbs is about 500,000 euros and a small terrace house 2-3 million.
He was explaining how developers work to keep prices high and added to their pressure is that they are not allowed to get married until they have bought a house (I think this is from the girls family who forbid the marriage) renting is not an option. So more pressure to succeed and go for the money.
I know this won't help anyone here, but I was interested to hear the same problems effect youngsters the other side of the world, we are not alone.
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In reply to Moley:
I do feel some sympathy with the problems faced by younger generations (under 40) in our society. I fell in the generation between the baby boomers and Thatcher's children. The baby boomers mostly manage to get a ticket for HMS Property Ownership whilst it was still in port. In my generation (slightly under 50 now) you either caught the boat or you missed it. The boat is now well over the horizon for the younger generations, who will be lucky if their parents caught the boat and have something to leave them. However, with the growing costs and shortfall for care of the elderly due to increased longivity that money may not materialise either. It is either that or they will have to pay for it all of their lives and probably as a working couple for all of their lives (and bring up their own children).
Personally, I missed the boat, but was lucky to be thrown a lifeline by someone on board. We own 2 properties (well nearly 2, one very small mortgage). We have a 2 bedroom flat in the UK, an ex-council property in a rural village, which cost around £100K. We have a 3 bedroom house, with a loft that could make 2 more, a garage and utility room extension, a half acre garden and another derelict (though sound) house at the bottom of the garden. This is in another rural location in France. It's possibly a £400K+ house where our flat is the UK. We paid less than £90K for it and were told by the neighbours that we paid too much!
The prices in the UK are bonkers, but as you illustrate, they are also just as bonkers in other parts of the world. I've heard Australia is very expensive, despite having loads of space. I don't know what advice to give to the younger generations. Move to Europe? Oh hang on a minute, haven't the baby boomers just messed up that opportunity too? (Yes, I know not all of or exclusively them).
I do feel some sympathy with the problems faced by younger generations (under 40) in our society. I fell in the generation between the baby boomers and Thatcher's children. The baby boomers mostly manage to get a ticket for HMS Property Ownership whilst it was still in port. In my generation (slightly under 50 now) you either caught the boat or you missed it. The boat is now well over the horizon for the younger generations, who will be lucky if their parents caught the boat and have something to leave them. However, with the growing costs and shortfall for care of the elderly due to increased longivity that money may not materialise either. It is either that or they will have to pay for it all of their lives and probably as a working couple for all of their lives (and bring up their own children).
Personally, I missed the boat, but was lucky to be thrown a lifeline by someone on board. We own 2 properties (well nearly 2, one very small mortgage). We have a 2 bedroom flat in the UK, an ex-council property in a rural village, which cost around £100K. We have a 3 bedroom house, with a loft that could make 2 more, a garage and utility room extension, a half acre garden and another derelict (though sound) house at the bottom of the garden. This is in another rural location in France. It's possibly a £400K+ house where our flat is the UK. We paid less than £90K for it and were told by the neighbours that we paid too much!
The prices in the UK are bonkers, but as you illustrate, they are also just as bonkers in other parts of the world. I've heard Australia is very expensive, despite having loads of space. I don't know what advice to give to the younger generations. Move to Europe? Oh hang on a minute, haven't the baby boomers just messed up that opportunity too? (Yes, I know not all of or exclusively them).
Post edited at 15:21
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In reply to Moley:
My wife and I help elderly people in different ways. It is fairly normal for them to live in big family houses, often on their own, with an iron will to stay there untill the end. One lady lives in one room in a manse that could probably hold two big families comfortably albeit with a bit of reorganisation. I wonder what the national count of empty bedrooms/spare capacity is as people begin to outlive their accommodation as we live longer. Personally I'd be happy in a nice bright open plan one roomed accommodation with a view out onto a garden when I'm past it (not too far off). They need to build some ready.
My wife and I help elderly people in different ways. It is fairly normal for them to live in big family houses, often on their own, with an iron will to stay there untill the end. One lady lives in one room in a manse that could probably hold two big families comfortably albeit with a bit of reorganisation. I wonder what the national count of empty bedrooms/spare capacity is as people begin to outlive their accommodation as we live longer. Personally I'd be happy in a nice bright open plan one roomed accommodation with a view out onto a garden when I'm past it (not too far off). They need to build some ready.
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In reply to Phil1919:
Yep. My mother-in-law lives in a large 3 bedroom house. She's past 80 and has absolutely no intention of leaving. Her son has even offered her a house he owns, not far from where he lives, but she won't move. She hasn't really been able to look after the place and wasn't really when her husband was still alive. I guess she's holding on to memories that are no longer there. But who has the right to tell her that?
Yep. My mother-in-law lives in a large 3 bedroom house. She's past 80 and has absolutely no intention of leaving. Her son has even offered her a house he owns, not far from where he lives, but she won't move. She hasn't really been able to look after the place and wasn't really when her husband was still alive. I guess she's holding on to memories that are no longer there. But who has the right to tell her that?
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In reply to Moley:
I don't get all this can't afford a house stuff.
I just sold a perfectly good 2 bed back to back terrace house for 75k to a young lass on 18k a year.
She saved for 2 years whilst renting then bought my place on a 25 year mortgage.
This is whilst running a car.
No help from parents either.
I don't get all this can't afford a house stuff.
I just sold a perfectly good 2 bed back to back terrace house for 75k to a young lass on 18k a year.
She saved for 2 years whilst renting then bought my place on a 25 year mortgage.
This is whilst running a car.
No help from parents either.
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In reply to Dax H:
I think there is plenty of affordable and cheap housing in the UK, the problem is location - relative to available work.
The cottage attached to us eventually sold for 75k this year, needs some modernising but habitable. There's 3 other houses in village will be on the market soon at well under 100k. But we are 7 miles from a small town, no public transport, probably 1hr+ drive to work (if lucky), low wages and school now over an hour on a bus. Majority living here are retired, or farming families.
Plenty of cheap housing in south Wales, but people also need a job to pay the mortgage. I feel the answers to the problem may be quite radical, but no government can afford to suggest them.
I think there is plenty of affordable and cheap housing in the UK, the problem is location - relative to available work.
The cottage attached to us eventually sold for 75k this year, needs some modernising but habitable. There's 3 other houses in village will be on the market soon at well under 100k. But we are 7 miles from a small town, no public transport, probably 1hr+ drive to work (if lucky), low wages and school now over an hour on a bus. Majority living here are retired, or farming families.
Plenty of cheap housing in south Wales, but people also need a job to pay the mortgage. I feel the answers to the problem may be quite radical, but no government can afford to suggest them.
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In reply to Dax H:
And fair play to her, but £75K isn't an insignicant amount.
My missus started on a £17K house, but children and asperations soon had her buying a £270K house, and be mortgaged to the hilt. After a divorce settlement and paying off the mortgage, she was left with a bit over a £120K, this was after over 20 years of paying a mortgage.
I take it you live north of Birmingham? Totally different story dan saff. God knows what London might be like. My niece and her partner have just bought a 2 bed semi in Kent for £280K !!! Besides, should your buyer have children and need a bigger property, I expect the outgoings will become huge very quickly or be spread out over a very long time, I doubt they will be in the fortunate position that I find myself in, where I can virtually retire at 50, (albeit on a frugal existence).
And fair play to her, but £75K isn't an insignicant amount.
My missus started on a £17K house, but children and asperations soon had her buying a £270K house, and be mortgaged to the hilt. After a divorce settlement and paying off the mortgage, she was left with a bit over a £120K, this was after over 20 years of paying a mortgage.
I take it you live north of Birmingham? Totally different story dan saff. God knows what London might be like. My niece and her partner have just bought a 2 bed semi in Kent for £280K !!! Besides, should your buyer have children and need a bigger property, I expect the outgoings will become huge very quickly or be spread out over a very long time, I doubt they will be in the fortunate position that I find myself in, where I can virtually retire at 50, (albeit on a frugal existence).
Post edited at 17:05
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In reply to Dax H:
I just had a look on Rightmove for <=90,000 houses in Gtr Manc, 188 hits.
Thing is, they're all in the "rough" areas ( ), not the honeypot areas like Chorlton or Didsbury, so I suspect that puts some young darlings off! But a lot are on the tram network.
Where I am now wasn't fantastic when we first moved here, but it has improved a load since. No way I could afford it now.
I just had a look on Rightmove for <=90,000 houses in Gtr Manc, 188 hits.
Thing is, they're all in the "rough" areas ( ), not the honeypot areas like Chorlton or Didsbury, so I suspect that puts some young darlings off! But a lot are on the tram network.
Where I am now wasn't fantastic when we first moved here, but it has improved a load since. No way I could afford it now.
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In reply to Moley:
The market doesn't seem too over inflated in the UK and in no immediate risk of collapse. Average house prices are around £220k with average salary around £27k which will get you a mortgage of around £190k based upon two wages with the disparity being the deposit requirement.
The problems areas are the ones that are at the extremes of these averages... or if you're not inclined to cohabiting.
The impact of house price inflation is currently far less of an issue given the current interest rates say compared with the early 1990s. Having purchased my first house 3 years ago I'm currently paying as much per month as I would have been for house worth a third of the value in 1990 while taking the benefit of wage inflation of the last 25 years.
*Please note this doesn't constituent independent financial advice as this is expression of opinion
The market doesn't seem too over inflated in the UK and in no immediate risk of collapse. Average house prices are around £220k with average salary around £27k which will get you a mortgage of around £190k based upon two wages with the disparity being the deposit requirement.
The problems areas are the ones that are at the extremes of these averages... or if you're not inclined to cohabiting.
The impact of house price inflation is currently far less of an issue given the current interest rates say compared with the early 1990s. Having purchased my first house 3 years ago I'm currently paying as much per month as I would have been for house worth a third of the value in 1990 while taking the benefit of wage inflation of the last 25 years.
*Please note this doesn't constituent independent financial advice as this is expression of opinion
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In reply to Weekend Punter:
Thinking back to how we started, I lived in West Sussex (early 80s) in tied accommodation on basic agricultural wages, house prices were starting to rocket as everyone wanted to live in our "quaint country villages" and we had no chance of buying - on my wages.
My wife had divorced but could no longer pay her mortgage, sold up and came away with 15k. We found a cottage deep in mid Wales and paid the 15k cash for it. But no work, so I became self employed and we spent the next 15 years travelling for work and living from suitcases - away from home weeks at a time. Luckily no young children, our choice in the circumstances. Eventually I found a settled job near home and all was well.
30 years later we've moved once locally but still here. We did make sacrifices and life took its toll and not everyone could or would do this. A young family moved in locally with a son, but dad leaves for London at 3am on a Monday and home on Friday, in construction, they have many years of this ahead.
Family sacrifices I guess.
Thinking back to how we started, I lived in West Sussex (early 80s) in tied accommodation on basic agricultural wages, house prices were starting to rocket as everyone wanted to live in our "quaint country villages" and we had no chance of buying - on my wages.
My wife had divorced but could no longer pay her mortgage, sold up and came away with 15k. We found a cottage deep in mid Wales and paid the 15k cash for it. But no work, so I became self employed and we spent the next 15 years travelling for work and living from suitcases - away from home weeks at a time. Luckily no young children, our choice in the circumstances. Eventually I found a settled job near home and all was well.
30 years later we've moved once locally but still here. We did make sacrifices and life took its toll and not everyone could or would do this. A young family moved in locally with a son, but dad leaves for London at 3am on a Monday and home on Friday, in construction, they have many years of this ahead.
Family sacrifices I guess.
In reply to Weekend Punter:
Low interest rates are all well and good for getting a mortgage. But stagnant wage inflation means once you get a mortgage it doesn't get significantly easier to pay off as the years go by.
In the days of 17% inflation, your mortgage halved in real terms in just a few years. I'm five years into one and it's costing me more in real terms than in was when I took it out.
This makes it impossible to save for a larger house or put any savings by or start a family without severe financial restrictions. I'm 35 and been on the housing ladder for 9 years and I'm still not able to save a penny or spend on luxuries after bills.
That can't be good for the wider economy if more people are in the same boat.
All our money goes on housing and there's nothing left to support non financial aspects for the economy.
Low interest rates are all well and good for getting a mortgage. But stagnant wage inflation means once you get a mortgage it doesn't get significantly easier to pay off as the years go by.
In the days of 17% inflation, your mortgage halved in real terms in just a few years. I'm five years into one and it's costing me more in real terms than in was when I took it out.
This makes it impossible to save for a larger house or put any savings by or start a family without severe financial restrictions. I'm 35 and been on the housing ladder for 9 years and I'm still not able to save a penny or spend on luxuries after bills.
That can't be good for the wider economy if more people are in the same boat.
All our money goes on housing and there's nothing left to support non financial aspects for the economy.
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In reply to XXXX:
I gave you a like as you have illustrated what it's like for a some and also because you have my sympathy.
Stay strong!
I gave you a like as you have illustrated what it's like for a some and also because you have my sympathy.
Stay strong!
Post edited at 18:03
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In reply to marsbar:
Just outside of Leeds center with a bus stop at the end of the street where a bus stops every 10 minutes and it takes 15 minutes to get in to the city center.
There are 2 doctors within a 4 and 7 min walk, a coop and asda within 1/2 mile, good fish and chips and various other takeaways within 1/4 mile and a dentist within 1/2 a mile.
Pretty damn good really.
> Depends where you are I guess.
Just outside of Leeds center with a bus stop at the end of the street where a bus stops every 10 minutes and it takes 15 minutes to get in to the city center.
There are 2 doctors within a 4 and 7 min walk, a coop and asda within 1/2 mile, good fish and chips and various other takeaways within 1/4 mile and a dentist within 1/2 a mile.
Pretty damn good really.
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In reply to XXXX:
I seem to remember high inflation not being matched by similar wage increases so I'm not sure that house purchases were as easy as you describe.
Then there were those left in negative equity when the housing bubble burst.
I seem to remember high inflation not being matched by similar wage increases so I'm not sure that house purchases were as easy as you describe.
Then there were those left in negative equity when the housing bubble burst.
In reply to baron:
I didn't say it was easy, I'm saying it presents different challenges. Low interest rates, but also pay rises well below house price inflation.
I think on balance, it is fair to say that the housing crisis of today is as bad as it's been. I've only been alive now, so I can't compare but there are no council houses, no houses being built, there are no affordable houses, wages are stagnant and yet prices are still going up. Stamp duty is ridiculous, renting is more unaffordable than buying and we're in the deepest recession since the 1930s.
Talking of "young darlings" is offensive to a generation.
I didn't say it was easy, I'm saying it presents different challenges. Low interest rates, but also pay rises well below house price inflation.
I think on balance, it is fair to say that the housing crisis of today is as bad as it's been. I've only been alive now, so I can't compare but there are no council houses, no houses being built, there are no affordable houses, wages are stagnant and yet prices are still going up. Stamp duty is ridiculous, renting is more unaffordable than buying and we're in the deepest recession since the 1930s.
Talking of "young darlings" is offensive to a generation.
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In reply to Moley:
Same for us here in our village. 8 miles from the nearest small market town, 3 busses a day and no chance of getting to work without a car.
A small development was built recently with the 'affordable starter homes' they put on there going for a bargain £210,000.
Same for us here in our village. 8 miles from the nearest small market town, 3 busses a day and no chance of getting to work without a car.
A small development was built recently with the 'affordable starter homes' they put on there going for a bargain £210,000.
In reply to Dax H:
Much less expensive than many parts of London and the South East I'm thinking, too. 18k a year wouldn't go far at all down there.
In the country wide perspective, I think it's accurate to say we do have something of a housing crisis.
> Just outside of Leeds center with a bus stop at the end of the street where a bus stops every 10 minutes and it takes 15 minutes to get in to the city center.
> There are 2 doctors within a 4 and 7 min walk, a coop and asda within 1/2 mile, good fish and chips and various other takeaways within 1/4 mile and a dentist within 1/2 a mile.
> Pretty damn good really.
> There are 2 doctors within a 4 and 7 min walk, a coop and asda within 1/2 mile, good fish and chips and various other takeaways within 1/4 mile and a dentist within 1/2 a mile.
> Pretty damn good really.
Much less expensive than many parts of London and the South East I'm thinking, too. 18k a year wouldn't go far at all down there.
In the country wide perspective, I think it's accurate to say we do have something of a housing crisis.
Post edited at 18:46
In reply to XXXX:
I wouldn't accuse a whole generation of being 'young darlings' and I have no doubt that many younger people find it difficult or impossible to buy a house for the reasons that you gave.
I'm not sure about the 'deepest recession since the 1930's'.
This might be true if recessions are measured by GDP but I'd suggest that most people have a far higher standard of living today than at any time since the 1930's.
I wouldn't accuse a whole generation of being 'young darlings' and I have no doubt that many younger people find it difficult or impossible to buy a house for the reasons that you gave.
I'm not sure about the 'deepest recession since the 1930's'.
This might be true if recessions are measured by GDP but I'd suggest that most people have a far higher standard of living today than at any time since the 1930's.
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In reply to Moley:
To right there is a housing crisis...............Most of the new builds (49% of the local councils new builds) in our area are being built near me, all on greenfield land, while brownfield sites lay dormant. The local School is oversubscribed, the Doctors is being giving a bigger car-park to be able to cope, the local community center may have to be knocked down. Three small villages will become one big town. But the roads are left until last. Some of the land floods terribly. The infrastructure is always left until last.
To fukcing right there is an housing crisis.................
To right there is a housing crisis...............Most of the new builds (49% of the local councils new builds) in our area are being built near me, all on greenfield land, while brownfield sites lay dormant. The local School is oversubscribed, the Doctors is being giving a bigger car-park to be able to cope, the local community center may have to be knocked down. Three small villages will become one big town. But the roads are left until last. Some of the land floods terribly. The infrastructure is always left until last.
To fukcing right there is an housing crisis.................
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In reply to baron:
I guess it depends what you mean by living standards. I can't think of much I have today that someone in the 80s would be envious of yet there's plenty I would like of what they had.
One parent at home, local jobs, affordable housing...
I guess it depends what you mean by living standards. I can't think of much I have today that someone in the 80s would be envious of yet there's plenty I would like of what they had.
One parent at home, local jobs, affordable housing...
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In reply to baron:
"The UK economy recently suffered its deepest recession since the 1930s"
[Bank of England, 2010, Bank of England Quarterly Bulletin 2010 Q4, [available online - http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/qb1...
"The UK economy recently suffered its deepest recession since the 1930s"
[Bank of England, 2010, Bank of England Quarterly Bulletin 2010 Q4, [available online - http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/qb1...
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In reply to XXXX:
Can't argue with the figures but I'd suggest that the early 1980's were much tougher than today.
Can't argue with the figures but I'd suggest that the early 1980's were much tougher than today.
In reply to arch:
A friend who lectures on housing policy tells me that there is many years of housing land on brown field sites in West Yorkshire. It is bring banked and traded by house builders as an asset. Its worth more not building houses in it by restricting the supply in urban area. Builders also favour green field sites because of complications of contamination on old industrial sites. It's a win-win for them.
Build council houses and kill off the buy to let market which blocks off affordable options for many people.
A friend who lectures on housing policy tells me that there is many years of housing land on brown field sites in West Yorkshire. It is bring banked and traded by house builders as an asset. Its worth more not building houses in it by restricting the supply in urban area. Builders also favour green field sites because of complications of contamination on old industrial sites. It's a win-win for them.
Build council houses and kill off the buy to let market which blocks off affordable options for many people.
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In reply to Hugh J:
It depends, in the big cities, (Sydders, Melb, Brissy etc,) prices are astronomical. But, if you want to live the rural life, quite big blocks can be bought for reasonable prices.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/property/rural-splendour-as-proper...
> The prices in the UK are bonkers, but as you illustrate, they are also just as bonkers in other parts of the world. I've heard Australia is very expensive, despite having loads of space.
It depends, in the big cities, (Sydders, Melb, Brissy etc,) prices are astronomical. But, if you want to live the rural life, quite big blocks can be bought for reasonable prices.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/property/rural-splendour-as-proper...
In reply to XXXX:
The 80's were like that? Funny, I remember everyone I knew had both of the couple working, and lived in rented accommodation.
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/630/economics/economy-in-1980s/
> I guess it depends what you mean by living standards. I can't think of much I have today that someone in the 80s would be envious of yet there's plenty I would like of what they had.
> One parent at home, local jobs, affordable housing...
The 80's were like that? Funny, I remember everyone I knew had both of the couple working, and lived in rented accommodation.
> Nominal house prices almost tripled in a decade. The increase was even greater in the south east and London. UK industrial output was hit hard by recession of 1981, but showed good recovery in later part of the 1980s. In 1980, the recession and decline in consumer spending led to a surplus. However, by the late 1980s, the UK current account had grown to a deficit of over 4% of GDP. But, in doing so caused the severe recession of 1981. Unemployment shot up to 3 million and high unemployment persisted throughout the 1980s.
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/630/economics/economy-in-1980s/
In reply to Big Ger:
I think that's a subscription site Big Ger.
Yeah, it could well be cheaper out of the cities. My wife's son lives in "Brissy" and he says it stupid money for a place in the city. With the obvious exception of London, it's strange how prices are more for rural loctions in the UK, but generally less in other countries. French cities are way more expensive than rural locations. Even the local town is about +20% on our location in France and it's only 7kms away.
But then I'm not sure it's the case in the UK, perhaps that's just because I live in the Cotswolds (not far from Charlie, Anne and all the celebrities in Bibury).
I think that's a subscription site Big Ger.
Yeah, it could well be cheaper out of the cities. My wife's son lives in "Brissy" and he says it stupid money for a place in the city. With the obvious exception of London, it's strange how prices are more for rural loctions in the UK, but generally less in other countries. French cities are way more expensive than rural locations. Even the local town is about +20% on our location in France and it's only 7kms away.
But then I'm not sure it's the case in the UK, perhaps that's just because I live in the Cotswolds (not far from Charlie, Anne and all the celebrities in Bibury).
In reply to Hugh J:
Try this mate;
http://edge.alluremedia.com.au/uploads/businessinsider/2016/12/corelogic-HV...
> I think that's a subscription site Big Ger.
Try this mate;
http://edge.alluremedia.com.au/uploads/businessinsider/2016/12/corelogic-HV...
In reply to Big Ger:
Yeah cool, that worked. So what would you say is an equivalent value for the AU$? I was there about 20 years ago and got about $2.70 for a quid. But my missus is there now and only getting around $1.60 for a quid.
Yeah cool, that worked. So what would you say is an equivalent value for the AU$? I was there about 20 years ago and got about $2.70 for a quid. But my missus is there now and only getting around $1.60 for a quid.
Post edited at 21:12
In reply to Hugh J:
Xe is your friend;
http://www.xe.com/
$1.00 Au currently at £1.68, since I've been out here it's been as low as £2.58, and as high as £1.28
Xe is your friend;
http://www.xe.com/
$1.00 Au currently at £1.68, since I've been out here it's been as low as £2.58, and as high as £1.28
In reply to Big Ger:
So we're probably talking comparable to the UK then, with Sydney and Melbourne being more like London? It does seem that the "Rest of State" values are significantly cheaper though.
So we're probably talking comparable to the UK then, with Sydney and Melbourne being more like London? It does seem that the "Rest of State" values are significantly cheaper though.
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In reply to Big Ger:
Oh yes!
Was lucky to spend a lot of time in Manly. Amazing journey into the city. Also got my one and only experience of the "green room" off Manly beach. Happy days!
Oh yes!
Was lucky to spend a lot of time in Manly. Amazing journey into the city. Also got my one and only experience of the "green room" off Manly beach. Happy days!
Post edited at 21:42
In reply to Moley:
A while back, a old factory near us was raised to the ground. The council looked at permission from one of the big supermarkets to build a store on the land. For all intences and purpose, it was going through.
A rivel supermarket bought a local car garage 500 yds away and put in a application for their own store. The council Ummd and Arrd about which store to go for, eventually coming down in favour of the second. Once permission was granted, the second supermarket company pulled out, sighting their superstore 5 miles away as a reason not to build another in our town.
So, no new supermarket in the town. No redevelopment of derelict land in the town, and 3500 new houses on greenfield land without the infrastructure to cope.
Some housing crisis.............
A while back, a old factory near us was raised to the ground. The council looked at permission from one of the big supermarkets to build a store on the land. For all intences and purpose, it was going through.
A rivel supermarket bought a local car garage 500 yds away and put in a application for their own store. The council Ummd and Arrd about which store to go for, eventually coming down in favour of the second. Once permission was granted, the second supermarket company pulled out, sighting their superstore 5 miles away as a reason not to build another in our town.
So, no new supermarket in the town. No redevelopment of derelict land in the town, and 3500 new houses on greenfield land without the infrastructure to cope.
Some housing crisis.............
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In reply to Moley:
I took out my first mortgage at 21, I owned my current house at 50 ( 7 years back)interest rates were high( 15%) but mortgages were easy to get with no deposit.
My middle daughter left first, bought at 20,( now 30) and the market changed, and whilst she now has a larger house , with her partner, she then had to save up a huge deposit sum, low interest though.
Eldest daughter bought first house at around 25 , again big mortgage , big deposit low interest rates .now with larger house( and children)
Youngest, 27, still at home, currently sponging off mum and dad whilst she too saves up for a deposit for a home.
FIL, widowed, 80, kicks around in a large home that none of the grandchildren can afford. ( it needs some expensive work)
West of Scotland.
I took out my first mortgage at 21, I owned my current house at 50 ( 7 years back)interest rates were high( 15%) but mortgages were easy to get with no deposit.
My middle daughter left first, bought at 20,( now 30) and the market changed, and whilst she now has a larger house , with her partner, she then had to save up a huge deposit sum, low interest though.
Eldest daughter bought first house at around 25 , again big mortgage , big deposit low interest rates .now with larger house( and children)
Youngest, 27, still at home, currently sponging off mum and dad whilst she too saves up for a deposit for a home.
FIL, widowed, 80, kicks around in a large home that none of the grandchildren can afford. ( it needs some expensive work)
West of Scotland.
1
In reply to Moley:
The UK housing problem is partly through a cultural obsession over certain styles, must be detached or semi, own garden front and back... Pokey bedrooms, undersized garage, own heating system.
In Sweden, far more flats or apartments are built than house, normal 3-4 storeys high, communal heating, functional basement with large communal laundry room, bike and push chair store, some even have a guests apartment that residents can book for a nominal fee. They'll have some communal garden that is general free from litter and dog poo, the building will lead straight on to cycle and footpaths.
It's a means of housing more folk in an urban environment, by actually making it a pleasant and functional place to live.
The UK housing problem is partly through a cultural obsession over certain styles, must be detached or semi, own garden front and back... Pokey bedrooms, undersized garage, own heating system.
In Sweden, far more flats or apartments are built than house, normal 3-4 storeys high, communal heating, functional basement with large communal laundry room, bike and push chair store, some even have a guests apartment that residents can book for a nominal fee. They'll have some communal garden that is general free from litter and dog poo, the building will lead straight on to cycle and footpaths.
It's a means of housing more folk in an urban environment, by actually making it a pleasant and functional place to live.
Post edited at 09:54
3
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In reply to Moley:
I've no problem with houses being built, but build on brownfield sites first before moving into the countryside.
I've no problem with houses being built, but build on brownfield sites first before moving into the countryside.
1
In reply to Moley:
I think part of the solution is to do what they have just done in Vancouver . Prices there have spiralled out of control due to Chinese money. So they have started taxing this. Apparently this has stopped in its tracks the price boom.
As well as cutting back on buy to let's in the uk, the govt here should also tax foreign investors buying homes here ( often done purely for investment).
So tackle it 2 ways. Kill off the buy to let market and also foreign money coming in.
I think part of the solution is to do what they have just done in Vancouver . Prices there have spiralled out of control due to Chinese money. So they have started taxing this. Apparently this has stopped in its tracks the price boom.
As well as cutting back on buy to let's in the uk, the govt here should also tax foreign investors buying homes here ( often done purely for investment).
So tackle it 2 ways. Kill off the buy to let market and also foreign money coming in.
1
In reply to Moley:
There isn't a UK housing crises. There is a London and surrounding area housing crises maybe but certainly isn't a national issue.
In vast swaths of the country £100k -£150k will get you a perfectly acceptable house, in fact in some areas you can get something that is okay for £75-£100k. I really don't see the problem myself, if a working couple can't save £10k'ish for a deposit between them over a few years then they are doing something very wrong.
I've just turned 32 and I've just brought my second rental house on in my own name (and had to pay 3% stamp duty on a second home because apparently there is a housing crisis) If I had wanted to push it I could have probably got 3 by now.
If people were willing to live and work in places other than London we could spread the load a little bit, boosting house prices in the north and bringing them back to more realistic levels in the south.
There isn't a UK housing crises. There is a London and surrounding area housing crises maybe but certainly isn't a national issue.
In vast swaths of the country £100k -£150k will get you a perfectly acceptable house, in fact in some areas you can get something that is okay for £75-£100k. I really don't see the problem myself, if a working couple can't save £10k'ish for a deposit between them over a few years then they are doing something very wrong.
I've just turned 32 and I've just brought my second rental house on in my own name (and had to pay 3% stamp duty on a second home because apparently there is a housing crisis) If I had wanted to push it I could have probably got 3 by now.
If people were willing to live and work in places other than London we could spread the load a little bit, boosting house prices in the north and bringing them back to more realistic levels in the south.
4
In reply to Lord_ash2000:
Yes, thinking about it I agree. Combination of housing + work + expectations, seem to be cheap houses available in areas with little work or insecure jobs and where the work and money are there is a lack of cheaper housing.
I have no knowledge of the rental sector, does this play a role and could it be improved?
Off line for rest of day - my birthday party
Yes, thinking about it I agree. Combination of housing + work + expectations, seem to be cheap houses available in areas with little work or insecure jobs and where the work and money are there is a lack of cheaper housing.
I have no knowledge of the rental sector, does this play a role and could it be improved?
Off line for rest of day - my birthday party
1
In reply to Lord_ash2000:
If that's true then even £100k is unaffordable. The average wage outside London is £22k giving a mortgage of £75k. You'd need 2 wages plus a good credit rating and little to no debt plus the obvious deposit.
You claim it's London that's the problem but there are large parts of the country that are unaffordable.
> There isn't a UK housing crises. There is a London and surrounding area housing crises maybe but certainly isn't a national issue.
> In vast swaths of the country £100k -£150k will get you a perfectly acceptable house, in fact in some areas you can get something that is okay for £75-£100k. I really don't see the problem myself, if a working couple can't save £10k'ish for a deposit between them over a few years then they are doing something very wrong.
> If people were willing to live and work in places other than London we could spread the load a little bit, boosting house prices in the north and bringing them back to more realistic levels in the south.
If that's true then even £100k is unaffordable. The average wage outside London is £22k giving a mortgage of £75k. You'd need 2 wages plus a good credit rating and little to no debt plus the obvious deposit.
You claim it's London that's the problem but there are large parts of the country that are unaffordable.
1
In reply to Lord_ash2000:
I think the London property bubble is the origin of what will, in my opinion, become a major problem for the rest of the country in a few decades. As people start to quit London for whatever reason and move elsewhere, they can afford to outbid for properties in (currently) less popular areas. This trickle down effect will mean that, increasingly, local people won't be able to afford to buy property in 'their' area. The difference in house price increases between London and RUK will itself increase, thereby exacerbating the situation. And at the bottom end of the spectrum, the 'glass floor' which seems to exist will prevent the least desirable properties in the country being bought up. This is perfectly natural I suppose.
The suggestions mentioned above to limit house purchase as an investment is commendable to me in principle, but I'm not sure how in practice, it would be most readily or successfully achieved.
> If a working couple can't save £10k'ish for a deposit between them over a few years then they are doing something very wrong
I think this is quite incorrect. There are unfortunately plenty of working couples who couldn't save £1-2k over a few years, never mind £10k. Are you familiar with the term 'the working poor'?
> There isn't a UK housing crises. There is a London and surrounding area housing crises maybe but certainly isn't a national issue.
I think the London property bubble is the origin of what will, in my opinion, become a major problem for the rest of the country in a few decades. As people start to quit London for whatever reason and move elsewhere, they can afford to outbid for properties in (currently) less popular areas. This trickle down effect will mean that, increasingly, local people won't be able to afford to buy property in 'their' area. The difference in house price increases between London and RUK will itself increase, thereby exacerbating the situation. And at the bottom end of the spectrum, the 'glass floor' which seems to exist will prevent the least desirable properties in the country being bought up. This is perfectly natural I suppose.
The suggestions mentioned above to limit house purchase as an investment is commendable to me in principle, but I'm not sure how in practice, it would be most readily or successfully achieved.
> If a working couple can't save £10k'ish for a deposit between them over a few years then they are doing something very wrong
I think this is quite incorrect. There are unfortunately plenty of working couples who couldn't save £1-2k over a few years, never mind £10k. Are you familiar with the term 'the working poor'?
In reply to Moley:
The rental sector (buy to let etc has boomed in recent years because property is always seen as a safw haven for money, especially when interest rates are so low, and also because the public rental sector has collapsed. councils arent really allowed to invest in social housing, and constantly lose stock via right to buy, and there has been a tightening of the rules regarding lending, which hits those hardest trying to save enough to get on the housing ladder. The only alternative to buying is renting (obviously), and so if there is less social housing available, this drives people to the private sector, hence the boom in private landlords / buy to let etc. Government polict appears to have changed; the 3% stamp duty has hit this sector, increasing BTL costs (and therefore rents), and now letting agents are no longer allowed to charge tenants for their services, putting more cost onto the landlord, hence increasing private sector rents further. So, we have a situation where there is much reasonably priced housing for sale in many areas of the country, with few private buyers at the bottom end, and a high demand for rental property with those renting ever more unable to get onto the property purchase ladder........
London and (immediate surrounds) appears to be a market operating to a completely different set of rules, with both purchase and rental costs beyond the comprehension of all but those living there!
The rental sector (buy to let etc has boomed in recent years because property is always seen as a safw haven for money, especially when interest rates are so low, and also because the public rental sector has collapsed. councils arent really allowed to invest in social housing, and constantly lose stock via right to buy, and there has been a tightening of the rules regarding lending, which hits those hardest trying to save enough to get on the housing ladder. The only alternative to buying is renting (obviously), and so if there is less social housing available, this drives people to the private sector, hence the boom in private landlords / buy to let etc. Government polict appears to have changed; the 3% stamp duty has hit this sector, increasing BTL costs (and therefore rents), and now letting agents are no longer allowed to charge tenants for their services, putting more cost onto the landlord, hence increasing private sector rents further. So, we have a situation where there is much reasonably priced housing for sale in many areas of the country, with few private buyers at the bottom end, and a high demand for rental property with those renting ever more unable to get onto the property purchase ladder........
London and (immediate surrounds) appears to be a market operating to a completely different set of rules, with both purchase and rental costs beyond the comprehension of all but those living there!
1
In reply to Indy:
Depends how strict the mortgage lending is, Looking at this calculator
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/how-much-mortgage-borrowing#resu...
They could get a mortgage of £71k-99k depending on lender. So plus a 10%'ish deposit I say they would be fine for a 100k house. And that's an individual on average an salary, for a working couple which is what I used as an example it would be much easier.
Besides, houses not being so cheap that a single below average earning individual with bad credit can't easily afford to buy their own home in their 20's doesn't really qualify as a crisis in my book. Mean what do people expect?
Depends how strict the mortgage lending is, Looking at this calculator
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/how-much-mortgage-borrowing#resu...
They could get a mortgage of £71k-99k depending on lender. So plus a 10%'ish deposit I say they would be fine for a 100k house. And that's an individual on average an salary, for a working couple which is what I used as an example it would be much easier.
Besides, houses not being so cheap that a single below average earning individual with bad credit can't easily afford to buy their own home in their 20's doesn't really qualify as a crisis in my book. Mean what do people expect?
Post edited at 11:54
1
In reply to Moley:
Solving the housing crisis, house price cost and rental cost can be sorted but it would hit the money men very hard so it will never happen.
1 government sets the rates for all rental accommodation.
2 heavier taxes on landlords.
3 massive taxes on second home owners.
4 sliding rent scales on council houses (the more you earn the more you pay).
5 the extra revenue used to clean up brownfield sites and build Highley energy efficient social housing.
Point 4 is aimed directly at my in-laws who have a combined income of over 50k and have been granted a council house.
Solving the housing crisis, house price cost and rental cost can be sorted but it would hit the money men very hard so it will never happen.
1 government sets the rates for all rental accommodation.
2 heavier taxes on landlords.
3 massive taxes on second home owners.
4 sliding rent scales on council houses (the more you earn the more you pay).
5 the extra revenue used to clean up brownfield sites and build Highley energy efficient social housing.
Point 4 is aimed directly at my in-laws who have a combined income of over 50k and have been granted a council house.
2
2
In reply to Dax H:
The only way to make houses cheaper in the long term is to build vast amounts of them and continue to do so for a long long time to catch up to and then keep pace with population growth.
But it just isn't practical, for starters housing companies don't want to build to many too quickly as they'll struggle to sell them / sell them at a price worth building them for. And secondly you've got to find somewhere to build them all, a lot of people don't want endless housing estates tacked on to the edges of their nice little towns.
The only way to make houses cheaper in the long term is to build vast amounts of them and continue to do so for a long long time to catch up to and then keep pace with population growth.
But it just isn't practical, for starters housing companies don't want to build to many too quickly as they'll struggle to sell them / sell them at a price worth building them for. And secondly you've got to find somewhere to build them all, a lot of people don't want endless housing estates tacked on to the edges of their nice little towns.
1
In reply to Dax H:
Impossible to administer as property that share the same first half of post code could be in vastly different areas price wise.
neither 1 or 2 changes the volume of houses, only the means at which people can live in them, that is only a problem if you perceive that owning a house rather than renting is the primary goal.
Many people want a decent house, well maintained and reasonable rent. If you penalise landlords too heavily, many will not maintain their properties to such a high standard.
I agree on vacant or barely used holiday homes or 2nd home in prime areas. Most of the national parks struggle for affordable accommodation, but nearly every village has several properties that see only a few weeks use a year. Special council tax rates would seem appropriate here.
> 1 government sets the rates for all rental accommodation.
Impossible to administer as property that share the same first half of post code could be in vastly different areas price wise.
> 2 heavier taxes on landlords.
neither 1 or 2 changes the volume of houses, only the means at which people can live in them, that is only a problem if you perceive that owning a house rather than renting is the primary goal.
Many people want a decent house, well maintained and reasonable rent. If you penalise landlords too heavily, many will not maintain their properties to such a high standard.
I agree on vacant or barely used holiday homes or 2nd home in prime areas. Most of the national parks struggle for affordable accommodation, but nearly every village has several properties that see only a few weeks use a year. Special council tax rates would seem appropriate here.
1
In reply to Moley:
Maybe if local authorities had a quicker turn-round on their empty properties (it takes about 6 months from vacating to re-letting near me!) and didn't keep so many in reserve 'in case the government sent more refugees to the area' (approx. 100 locally) the housing crisis would be a bit less.
Some private landlords are leaving houses empty in some areas because it is cheaper than repairing the damage done by tenants, and the loss of rent when tenants take their housing benefit and use it for something else.
I am not saying all local authorities are the same, or all private landlords or all tenants and benefit seekers, but there appears to be enough to cause problems.
Maybe if local authorities had a quicker turn-round on their empty properties (it takes about 6 months from vacating to re-letting near me!) and didn't keep so many in reserve 'in case the government sent more refugees to the area' (approx. 100 locally) the housing crisis would be a bit less.
Some private landlords are leaving houses empty in some areas because it is cheaper than repairing the damage done by tenants, and the loss of rent when tenants take their housing benefit and use it for something else.
I am not saying all local authorities are the same, or all private landlords or all tenants and benefit seekers, but there appears to be enough to cause problems.
In reply to Dax H:
Here in Holland my nephew was explaining to me that maximum rents are fixed by the authorities, depending on size and facilities of the apartment, I guess like your item 1. Think this is what he is talking about:
"A tenant should also know that the landlord cannot simply charge what he likes for an apartment. Every apartment has a maximum rent, which is calculated using a points system. Every square metre and all the facilities in the apartment score points, and the total number of points equates to a certain maximum rent. If you are living in Amsterdam you can ask a huurteam (via www.wswonen.nl) to visit your apartment and perform the calculation at no cost.
If you pay more than the maximum rent according to this points system, you are entitled to have your rent reduced by the Huurcommissie. This is like a civil court that deals solely with housing rental cases. It is very easy to start a re-evaluation process and the costs for a process are only EUR 25".
Would this help in any way in the UK, for low paid workers not to be exploited? I have no knowledge of this.
Second houses, a lot of people (in "pretty" areas) have second homes or holiday homes, used little during the year - our village is half empty at times. Is this an issue, is it moraly acceptable. I accept people want Holliday's, but should this be regulated in some way (heavily taxed?) if the property is empty for more than x% of the year?
Here in Holland my nephew was explaining to me that maximum rents are fixed by the authorities, depending on size and facilities of the apartment, I guess like your item 1. Think this is what he is talking about:
"A tenant should also know that the landlord cannot simply charge what he likes for an apartment. Every apartment has a maximum rent, which is calculated using a points system. Every square metre and all the facilities in the apartment score points, and the total number of points equates to a certain maximum rent. If you are living in Amsterdam you can ask a huurteam (via www.wswonen.nl) to visit your apartment and perform the calculation at no cost.
If you pay more than the maximum rent according to this points system, you are entitled to have your rent reduced by the Huurcommissie. This is like a civil court that deals solely with housing rental cases. It is very easy to start a re-evaluation process and the costs for a process are only EUR 25".
Would this help in any way in the UK, for low paid workers not to be exploited? I have no knowledge of this.
Second houses, a lot of people (in "pretty" areas) have second homes or holiday homes, used little during the year - our village is half empty at times. Is this an issue, is it moraly acceptable. I accept people want Holliday's, but should this be regulated in some way (heavily taxed?) if the property is empty for more than x% of the year?
3
In reply to summo:
Just work it on the council tax banding.
> Impossible to administer as property that share the same first half of post code could be in vastly different areas price wise.
Just work it on the council tax banding.
1
In reply to Moley:
Exactly, lots of landlords make an absolute killing renting, the house I just sold was on a street of 40 houses, all but 1 is rented. Actually it's now all but 2 now that I don't rent it out anymore and sold it to a first time buyer.
Fixed rents would = less profit, less profits would = less people buying to let and that should drop the prices.
I had 3 different landlord consortium's offer me more than I accepted on the house so that goes to show how much money is in it.
Unfortunately for them I had shaken hands on the deal with the lass and in my world a handshake is binding.
Out of interest do the holiday / weekend home owners contribute to the local economy?
I spend a lot of time working in the Yorkshire Dale's and from talking to people in the villages up there the feedback I get is that they arrive on a Friday night with a car full of food and leave on a Sunday night, maybe they spend a couple of quid in the local pub but in general spend little to nothing in the local area.
> Here in Holland my nephew was explaining to me that maximum rents are fixed by the authorities, depending on size and facilities of the apartment, I guess like your item 1. Think this is what he is talking about:
Exactly, lots of landlords make an absolute killing renting, the house I just sold was on a street of 40 houses, all but 1 is rented. Actually it's now all but 2 now that I don't rent it out anymore and sold it to a first time buyer.
Fixed rents would = less profit, less profits would = less people buying to let and that should drop the prices.
I had 3 different landlord consortium's offer me more than I accepted on the house so that goes to show how much money is in it.
Unfortunately for them I had shaken hands on the deal with the lass and in my world a handshake is binding.
> Second houses, a lot of people (in "pretty" areas) have second homes or holiday homes, used little during the year - our village is half empty at times. Is this an issue, is it moraly acceptable. I accept people want Holliday's, but should this be regulated in some way (heavily taxed?) if the property is empty for more than x% of the year?
Out of interest do the holiday / weekend home owners contribute to the local economy?
I spend a lot of time working in the Yorkshire Dale's and from talking to people in the villages up there the feedback I get is that they arrive on a Friday night with a car full of food and leave on a Sunday night, maybe they spend a couple of quid in the local pub but in general spend little to nothing in the local area.
1
In reply to Moley:
Here's an alternative perspective on second home ownership. We converted a ruined cattle byre into our holiday home on Skye. In so doing, not only did we spend several hundred thousand pounds exclusively with local businesses, but we've actually added to the local housing stock for the future. Other local developments for second home owners in the same township include a number of award-winning eco-houses (grass roofs, subterranean accommodation, eco-innovations etc). Would you rather see Skye buried under bungalows? We already pay full council tax while hardly benefitting from the services. You really think the government should place a punitive tax on all second homes? How about a couple of pence on your income tax? That would fix the NHS and leave change for housing.
Here's an alternative perspective on second home ownership. We converted a ruined cattle byre into our holiday home on Skye. In so doing, not only did we spend several hundred thousand pounds exclusively with local businesses, but we've actually added to the local housing stock for the future. Other local developments for second home owners in the same township include a number of award-winning eco-houses (grass roofs, subterranean accommodation, eco-innovations etc). Would you rather see Skye buried under bungalows? We already pay full council tax while hardly benefitting from the services. You really think the government should place a punitive tax on all second homes? How about a couple of pence on your income tax? That would fix the NHS and leave change for housing.
In reply to BnB:
What the LibDems have been saying for years.
Look where that got them.
> How about a couple of pence on your income tax? That would fix the NHS.
What the LibDems have been saying for years.
Look where that got them.
2
In reply to Dax H:
Most Council tax banding is decades out of date.
> Just work it on the council tax banding.
Most Council tax banding is decades out of date.
In reply to Dax H:
I'm a landlord, our house which we lived in for years is in wensleydale. So you are partly correct, but also wrong on some aspects.
We let our house for 10% below the market rate, much to the dislike of our agent, but have had the same tenant for over 5 years. The house is old, but modernised and cheap to run. On top of normal wear and tear, we've replaced the boiler and the roof since they moved in. Not cheap!
Even though it was battered when we bought it and spent a fortune renovating, the mortgage is still more than the rent, on top of which we have insurance and agency fees.
Not all landlords are uncaring b@stards, nor are they all making a killing.
I'm a landlord, our house which we lived in for years is in wensleydale. So you are partly correct, but also wrong on some aspects.
We let our house for 10% below the market rate, much to the dislike of our agent, but have had the same tenant for over 5 years. The house is old, but modernised and cheap to run. On top of normal wear and tear, we've replaced the boiler and the roof since they moved in. Not cheap!
Even though it was battered when we bought it and spent a fortune renovating, the mortgage is still more than the rent, on top of which we have insurance and agency fees.
Not all landlords are uncaring b@stards, nor are they all making a killing.
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In reply to summo:
When I first moved to Aus, I was sending $300 pcm back to the UK to cover the mortgage on our property which we were letting out to a local Cornish couple, effectively subsidising their rent.
But hey, the government should tell me what I can charge, and put a cap on rent, and punish me for letting.
> Not all landlords are uncaring b@stards, nor are they all making a killing.
When I first moved to Aus, I was sending $300 pcm back to the UK to cover the mortgage on our property which we were letting out to a local Cornish couple, effectively subsidising their rent.
But hey, the government should tell me what I can charge, and put a cap on rent, and punish me for letting.
1
In reply to summo:
I was the same when I rented a place out, about 10% below the rate.
That's the minority though, most are in it for the profit and whole streets are being (or have been) bought up.
From what I have seen renting is significantly more expensive than buying but when the houses are not there to buy people don't have the option.
> We let our house for 10% below the market rate,
> Not all landlords are uncaring b@stards, nor are they all making a killing.
I was the same when I rented a place out, about 10% below the rate.
That's the minority though, most are in it for the profit and whole streets are being (or have been) bought up.
From what I have seen renting is significantly more expensive than buying but when the houses are not there to buy people don't have the option.
In reply to Lord_ash2000:
Your seem to be confusing your personal circumstances with that of the whole nation.
There are vast swathes of statistics that point to a housing crisis of epic proportions. It is acute in London and the south east but is widespread.
There are only small pockets of the country where house prices reflect local wages and when interest rates rise the situation will only get worse.
The idea that a working couple can save 10k in two years easily is a little far fetched. Most won't get near £450 a month left after essentials.
Your seem to be confusing your personal circumstances with that of the whole nation.
There are vast swathes of statistics that point to a housing crisis of epic proportions. It is acute in London and the south east but is widespread.
There are only small pockets of the country where house prices reflect local wages and when interest rates rise the situation will only get worse.
The idea that a working couple can save 10k in two years easily is a little far fetched. Most won't get near £450 a month left after essentials.
In reply to Dax H:
perhaps in some key cities, but not rurally.
the cost ratios are probably completely opposite in some places, you could never make a blanket rule, as the markets between many places vary and London is almost as special case in itself. Often rurally it is the demand for holiday homes by those earning substantial money in 1 or 2 cities, that has pushed the price beyond those who live locally in the parks, working primarily in low paid tourism related jobs. Rents in many of the parks is affordable, it's buying that is a killer. But, there are many properties vacant in the dales, that have been that way for a decade or more because either the person has died or is sitting in a care home and the family won't agree on what to do.
> whole streets are being (or have been) bought up.
perhaps in some key cities, but not rurally.
> From what I have seen renting is significantly more expensive than buying but when the houses are not there to buy people don't have the option.
the cost ratios are probably completely opposite in some places, you could never make a blanket rule, as the markets between many places vary and London is almost as special case in itself. Often rurally it is the demand for holiday homes by those earning substantial money in 1 or 2 cities, that has pushed the price beyond those who live locally in the parks, working primarily in low paid tourism related jobs. Rents in many of the parks is affordable, it's buying that is a killer. But, there are many properties vacant in the dales, that have been that way for a decade or more because either the person has died or is sitting in a care home and the family won't agree on what to do.
In reply to XXXX:
I agree with several comments on this thread that I think the "housing crisis" is somewhat overblown. Yes, London is bonkers expensive, but it's not the only place to live.
I have many London colleagues and their view appears to be that London is the only place in the UK worth living. When I mention living outside the M25 they get a confused look and I get the impression their view is that the rest of the UK is a wilderness peopled by knuckle-dragging animals. Further prodding on the same subject gets the answer that all their friends live in London, there's so much going on in London, there isn't the nightlife and entertainment elsewhere and they don't want to leave.
This is fine, apart from the word "want". It's a choice. Complain that they can't buy a property in London all they like, but don't think that this applies to the rest of the country. Understand its a choice that they are making to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, and don't deny that there are not other options available.
Another common complaint is that it's hard to build a career outside London.
Again, OK, not a problem with that view. However they need to understand that the ability to build a career is one of the reasons why everyone else is in London, and the choice to live there is, once again, a choice.
Meanwhile, I, and many others (including many of my friends), are very happily buying houses elsewhere in the country and look at the London-centric mob a little confused.
It's difficult to empathise with people who complain that they can't get a three bed semi for less than £400,000 in London when a whole raft of friends are busy buying two bed mid-terraces elsewhere in the country for around £100,000. One friend recently bought a FOUR bed semi for £125,000 - and it's in a lovely, beautiful area, and it's a lovely house (Todmorden if anyone asks).
I'm not saying that saving for a deposit isn't hard. It is. One friend spent 5 years saving for her deposit for a £100,000 two bed terrace in Birmingham. It involves making sacrifies, it involves not buying latest gadgets, and it involves eating cheaply and not going out much. But it's not impossible.
Unless you believe the only place you can live is London and home counties. But that's back to choice again.
Edited for typos
I agree with several comments on this thread that I think the "housing crisis" is somewhat overblown. Yes, London is bonkers expensive, but it's not the only place to live.
I have many London colleagues and their view appears to be that London is the only place in the UK worth living. When I mention living outside the M25 they get a confused look and I get the impression their view is that the rest of the UK is a wilderness peopled by knuckle-dragging animals. Further prodding on the same subject gets the answer that all their friends live in London, there's so much going on in London, there isn't the nightlife and entertainment elsewhere and they don't want to leave.
This is fine, apart from the word "want". It's a choice. Complain that they can't buy a property in London all they like, but don't think that this applies to the rest of the country. Understand its a choice that they are making to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, and don't deny that there are not other options available.
Another common complaint is that it's hard to build a career outside London.
Again, OK, not a problem with that view. However they need to understand that the ability to build a career is one of the reasons why everyone else is in London, and the choice to live there is, once again, a choice.
Meanwhile, I, and many others (including many of my friends), are very happily buying houses elsewhere in the country and look at the London-centric mob a little confused.
It's difficult to empathise with people who complain that they can't get a three bed semi for less than £400,000 in London when a whole raft of friends are busy buying two bed mid-terraces elsewhere in the country for around £100,000. One friend recently bought a FOUR bed semi for £125,000 - and it's in a lovely, beautiful area, and it's a lovely house (Todmorden if anyone asks).
I'm not saying that saving for a deposit isn't hard. It is. One friend spent 5 years saving for her deposit for a £100,000 two bed terrace in Birmingham. It involves making sacrifies, it involves not buying latest gadgets, and it involves eating cheaply and not going out much. But it's not impossible.
Unless you believe the only place you can live is London and home counties. But that's back to choice again.
Edited for typos
Post edited at 08:30
4
In reply to XXXX:
Also, to add to my post above, the other problem is that most media outlets are London based.
The non-stop litany of articles from journalists stating that house prices are in crisis - which people quote as gospel - is, in itself, London-centric.
There is life outside the M25, and the sooner journalists discover this and stop spamming us with articles that don't necessarily apply to life 100 miles north the better.
Also, to add to my post above, the other problem is that most media outlets are London based.
The non-stop litany of articles from journalists stating that house prices are in crisis - which people quote as gospel - is, in itself, London-centric.
There is life outside the M25, and the sooner journalists discover this and stop spamming us with articles that don't necessarily apply to life 100 miles north the better.
Post edited at 08:39
4
In reply to John_Hat:
Upto a point I agree, London is out of control. But have you seen house prices in near the centres of Manchester, Leeds etc. Round where I live in Warrington terraced houses on the south side go for £200-300k.Decent houses start at £500k plus.
In Congleton where I work, the locals are up in arms about the prices of the family homes ( and there are alot being built) which are outside the price range of local people.
Upto a point I agree, London is out of control. But have you seen house prices in near the centres of Manchester, Leeds etc. Round where I live in Warrington terraced houses on the south side go for £200-300k.Decent houses start at £500k plus.
In Congleton where I work, the locals are up in arms about the prices of the family homes ( and there are alot being built) which are outside the price range of local people.
1
In reply to neilh:
I used to live in Leeds, so yes. Two comments:
1) We are still talking about the centre of cities. The most expensive bit. Move out a few miles and it all gets a lot more reasonable.
2) It's perfectly possible to find reasonable priced housing near both Manchester and Leeds. The comment above about a house just outside Leeds is a case in point.
3) You mentioned Warrington. A 30 second rightmove search brought up 242 two bed terraces within 1 mile (or 15 min walk) of Warrington under 100k. I'm not sure what your view is of a "decent house" for 500k but the 500k houses I'm seeing in Warrington are 5 bedroom or more detached mansions with lots of land.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-54975763.html
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-61813901.html
> But have you seen house prices in near the centres of Manchester, Leeds etc.
I used to live in Leeds, so yes. Two comments:
1) We are still talking about the centre of cities. The most expensive bit. Move out a few miles and it all gets a lot more reasonable.
2) It's perfectly possible to find reasonable priced housing near both Manchester and Leeds. The comment above about a house just outside Leeds is a case in point.
3) You mentioned Warrington. A 30 second rightmove search brought up 242 two bed terraces within 1 mile (or 15 min walk) of Warrington under 100k. I'm not sure what your view is of a "decent house" for 500k but the 500k houses I'm seeing in Warrington are 5 bedroom or more detached mansions with lots of land.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-54975763.html
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-61813901.html
Post edited at 09:51
2
In reply to John_Hat:
Someone people born in the south east should move away, just to afford to live? Social cleansing?
Londoners don't deserve teachers, nurses, local council workers, bin men, office administrators, students, artists, bus drivers etc?
Someone people born in the south east should move away, just to afford to live? Social cleansing?
Londoners don't deserve teachers, nurses, local council workers, bin men, office administrators, students, artists, bus drivers etc?
1
Just few months ago my neighbours sold the flat by London Victoria. An old one bedroom ex-council. Low end of place really. It went for £500k. I really don't see local family buying something like that. Even if both are professional on £60k salaries it still makes it mad to get £500k mortgage.
In reply to John_Hat:
And perhaps you're a little guilty of Northern bias. I live 50 miles outside the m25 at least, housing here is still completely unaffordable.
And perhaps you're a little guilty of Northern bias. I live 50 miles outside the m25 at least, housing here is still completely unaffordable.
In reply to John_Hat:
I am well aware of this.
I am merely saying that it is not always a London issue.In other areas it is also perceived by locals as getting out of hand.
I am well aware of this.
I am merely saying that it is not always a London issue.In other areas it is also perceived by locals as getting out of hand.
In reply to arch:
You have managed to hit the nail on the head twice now, in neither case intending to; there would be much more land available for housing if we didn't waste so much on our worship of the fekkin car (parking being only part of the wasted space).
You have managed to hit the nail on the head twice now, in neither case intending to; there would be much more land available for housing if we didn't waste so much on our worship of the fekkin car (parking being only part of the wasted space).
2
In reply to XXXX:
Reality is that in London teachers, nurses, local council workers, bin men, office administrators, students, artists, bus drivers are sharing or live with parents. It's very sad, but everyone I know who are on low to average incomes in London live like that.
> Londoners don't deserve teachers, nurses, local council workers, bin men, office administrators, students, artists, bus drivers etc?
Reality is that in London teachers, nurses, local council workers, bin men, office administrators, students, artists, bus drivers are sharing or live with parents. It's very sad, but everyone I know who are on low to average incomes in London live like that.
In reply to XXXX:
Moving for a job? I'd always do that, but having a job I want to do is important me. People have been moving for work for hundreds of years.
Everywhere does, there are pros and cons to London though, one of the cons is that it's hard to buy so folks need to factor that in when they are looking at a job application.
> Someone people born in the south east should move away, just to afford to live? Social cleansing?
Moving for a job? I'd always do that, but having a job I want to do is important me. People have been moving for work for hundreds of years.
> Londoners don't deserve teachers, nurses, local council workers, bin men, office administrators, students, artists, bus drivers etc?
Everywhere does, there are pros and cons to London though, one of the cons is that it's hard to buy so folks need to factor that in when they are looking at a job application.
1
In reply to Dax H:
Surely it's obvious. One can just about afford a 75k house on 18k where rents are affordable, where one isn't already weighed down with debt and responsibilities, where 75k houses are available close to work/family/transport/schools/community etc, the things that tie people to places. In much of Britain those conditions don't exist but 18k jobs are still widespread.
jk
> I don't get all this can't afford a house stuff.
> I just sold a perfectly good 2 bed back to back terrace house for 75k to a young lass on 18k a year.
> I just sold a perfectly good 2 bed back to back terrace house for 75k to a young lass on 18k a year.
Surely it's obvious. One can just about afford a 75k house on 18k where rents are affordable, where one isn't already weighed down with debt and responsibilities, where 75k houses are available close to work/family/transport/schools/community etc, the things that tie people to places. In much of Britain those conditions don't exist but 18k jobs are still widespread.
jk
In reply to silhouette:
Yup, lets all use our world class public transport......d'oh!
> there would be much more land available for housing if we didn't waste so much on our worship of the fekkin car
Yup, lets all use our world class public transport......d'oh!
Post edited at 11:08
2
In reply to summo:
Exactly this.
I bought a one bed flat about ten years ago, it was my home, then I met someone who went on to become my wife, I took some equity out of the flat and put down a deposit on a small terrace house that is now our current home. I let my flat out with a view that when I am retired I will have an income to survive on. I have paid into various work based pension schemes over the years but they have been eroded and raided to the point where their current value does not really fill me with confidence that they will pay out enough for me to cover even the basics. I am not a scumbag slum landlord, have had the same tenant for five years, comply with all my legal obligations, have not increased the rent in the last four years and generally enjoy a good relationship with them. My only goal was to secure some basic standard of living during my retirement.
Exactly this.
I bought a one bed flat about ten years ago, it was my home, then I met someone who went on to become my wife, I took some equity out of the flat and put down a deposit on a small terrace house that is now our current home. I let my flat out with a view that when I am retired I will have an income to survive on. I have paid into various work based pension schemes over the years but they have been eroded and raided to the point where their current value does not really fill me with confidence that they will pay out enough for me to cover even the basics. I am not a scumbag slum landlord, have had the same tenant for five years, comply with all my legal obligations, have not increased the rent in the last four years and generally enjoy a good relationship with them. My only goal was to secure some basic standard of living during my retirement.
4
In reply to Big Ger:
I think it's because, in general, rents are going up, making it harder for people to save up for a home. Increasingly, people are sharing rented accommodation into their 40's and 50's.
One might ask if governments shouldn't aim to help most people, because a proportion of landlords aren't putting their rent up while many others are?
I'm not having a go...
> When I first moved to Aus, I was sending $300 pcm back to the UK to cover the mortgage on our property which we were letting out to a local Cornish couple, effectively subsidising their rent.
> But hey, the government should tell me what I can charge, and put a cap on rent, and punish me for letting.
I think it's because, in general, rents are going up, making it harder for people to save up for a home. Increasingly, people are sharing rented accommodation into their 40's and 50's.
One might ask if governments shouldn't aim to help most people, because a proportion of landlords aren't putting their rent up while many others are?
I'm not having a go...
Post edited at 11:31
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