UKC

I recently filmed myself bouldering with the thought that I could watch it back and work out where/ how I could improve my technique. I have a few thoughts, but am wondering what other people think

So, what advice would you give me?

Here's the link: youtube.com/watch?v=ftgwcFTPopY&

I filmed myself on the same route twice - there are differences in how I climb each time, and on each one I think there are elements better than the other. My thought is that I could go and practice any improvements in movement/ technique on this route first and then try on other routes.

In reply to andy007:

hard to tell if you are doing a foot-match or what but it seems like you spend quite alot of time 'sorting your feet out' before you move them across and then reach up. Is that something youve noticed?

In reply to jsmcfarland:

That is one of the things I was thinking - I faff around trying to sort my feet - This has got to waste energy. The first time, I was better, but the second time I took ages to sort before I moved across.

I am thinking that I need to climb routes working on precise foot placements that I hit first time in the right place/ right way.

In reply to andy007:

Is this something you focus on while you warm up? When you're stressed (ie working hard) people tend to revert to what they've practised the most. The time to ingrain technique is when you have more mental capacity to think about executing a move perfectly. Warming up is a good time get this practise, and it 'primes' you for the rest of the session.

For what it's worth, I feel one bit where you look less composed is on the first climb when you bump your right foot up over the overhang (at approx. 0:27). I don't know the climb at all, so the following may be completely wrong, but to me it looks like if you can palm down with your right hand, approximately where you foot lands, then you may be able to do that move with more control and possibly less energy.

I think your weight distribution is good in general, as is the little dynamic twist you do to reach the final sloper on the second climb.

I can imagine a lot of people climbing that problem would have their arms bent a lot more. Well done for keeping them mostly straight.

Mehmet

In reply to Mehmet Karatay:

Footwork is not something I have ever really looked at or practiced much. I think the time has come that I now need to. And as you suggest, when warming up / on easier climbs sounds like the right time.

The palm down to save energy is something I will have to go back and try when the weather lets me - worth giving it a go and see if it helps save some energy. As for the arms pretty straight: I am a bit rubbish at lots of pull ups, so that is how I have to climb even a little low level overhang!!

Thanks Mehmet

In reply to andy007:

You recognise it yourself, and others have said it too: you fidget with your feet. You bounce your left foot on the hold a couple of time times before turning into the backstep position at 1:00. The backstep itself looks like a better approach than the hurried grab on the same move at 0:24, but it still looks like you're rushing it.

Methodical, quiet foot placement.

In reply to AlanLittle:
Shows how good I am!!! I didn't notice that I hadn't done the back step the first time - I thought I just hadn't twisted my hips and had lunged for the next hold - which is true, but very obviously the back step was better and more controlled. Suggestion earlier of palm down on rock might be what I need to make the rushed move less energetic/ rushed??


are you saying to step straight into the back step and not place foot and turn later?

In reply to andy007:

First of all! Well done, you're climbing well and it takes some courage for anyone to post videos of themselves climbing!

As others have said - you could improve your "grace", the more graceful a move is, the more efficient it is in most cases. In practice what I'd do:

- take a look at a small edge to place your foot, then place it, exactly there, and keep and eye on the hold as you're placing it and only move your eyes off the foothold AFTER you have placed it. Many people move their eyes away from the holds, as they are placing them which leaves to plenty of room for inaccuracy!

- same can be said about the arms, grab a hold at the correct place, first time and let it stay there.

Other than that you looked solid on this - excellent little drop knee and flag!

In reply to andy007:


Not necessarily; depends what else you need to do to get into position for the move. It might well be better to do a frontal foot placement first, adjust body position then turn the foot. But the frontal foot placement should be on first time and stay there, not fidgety-bouncy.

In reply to AlanLittle:

Definitely need to look at my feet - It would be interesting to see what I do with my feet on easy climbs - i.e. do I place them correctly straight away or keep moving them into the correct position.

The idea of climbing more 'gracefully' and reducing unwanted movement is definitely something I need. My thought is to try to concentrate on/ implement more precise placements and then video myself in a couple of months and compare. Maybe I could video on the same climb for a very direct comparison.

I can see this being a good focus of sessions (probably indoors) over the next couple of months or so.

In reply to andy007:

Core strength and flexibility?

In reply to Morty:

Tell me more...

In reply to Morty:


Is this just a general comment for training and how to improve, or is it specific to what you see me do when climbing this route?

In reply to andy007:


Core strength and flexibility were things that came to my mind when watching the video too. I just didn't want to mention too many things at once.

Once you get better at placing you feet first time on less steep ground (on the assumption that this is something you have to work on...) you'll find core strength really helps on steeper ground to get your feet to go where you want them to. It'll also help take some of the weight off your arms.

A bit of core strength and flexibility would also make that move I mentioned look smoother, but if the palming technique does work on your climb, I think that would be more efficient. Once you have some strength it can be tempting to use it to get past problems when there is a more technical solution. Whether that's a good thing or not depends on many factors.

As others have said, well done for having the courage to post a video and ask for feedback. It'll make a big difference to your climbing if you can keep doing that, but it's something many people find difficult.

Mehmet

In reply to Mehmet Karatay:

I am sure most, if not everyone on here wants to get better - whatever that is with respect to their goals. I did some MTB training last year and the coach used video very effectively to show what I was doing and what I should be doing. I have then thought that my climbing would benefit from the same process.

I find that when I look at video of myself, I tend to have preconceived ideas -even when I try not to!! So, to ask other peoples opinion seems the way to go.

Personally, I think we should all use video more - not just in climbing, but in all sorts of things...

Flexibility is not a strong point of mine, but I have more recently been made to take stretching seriously as I have a number of twinges/ shoulder and arm pain issues from years of not stretching. I hope some younger climbers take note and aim to keep their flexibility more than I see most of them doing!!

As for core strength. I could definitely improve here as well!!!

Now I have loads to work on - It needs forming into some sort of plan that fits in with work. family etc

In reply to andy007:

Yes, video analysis is a great tool for coaching. Quite a few climbing coaches use it, and it's a part of Mountain Training's Development Coaching Award.

If you want to analyse video yourself there are some great tools which help. If you're using a Windows computer then Kinovea is great. On an smartphone/tablet Coach's Eye or Hudl Technique are both good. They all allow you to view video frame by frame, draw on the video and view two videos side by side amongst other things.

Shoulder pain in climbers is quite common and I believe avoidable. Flexibility may be the issue, but chances are it's only part of it. It could be a muscle imbalance or movement pattern issue leading to an impingement etc. Again, these can be hard to self diagnose and can make the problem worse if you get the diagnosis wrong. Recently I came across this website which seems good but bear in mind the previous sentence: http://www.unionpt.com/community/theclimbersproject

Mehmet

In reply to Mehmet Karatay:

That link looks interesting and needs time spent looking at it. With me a very definite muscle imbalance. I am VERY left handed/ left footed etc and always have been. 90% of shoulder / neck pain is in my right side. This is something I am currently being seen for (that and numbness/ pins and needles in my hands and particularly in my right thumb - maybe carpel tunnel; but for all of this I have been referred and am waiting to be seen at the hospital!!!)

A sure sign of needing to take care of my body a bit more!!

On the upside, my bloods and blood pressure is all good!

Quite a bit to look at here... !!

In reply to andy007:

It looks to me like you could be pushing/pulling harder with your legs.

In reply to andy007:

I agree with other comments on here particularly those by Mehmet and zmv.

Practicing, actually playing, on stuff well below you limit is a great way to improve technique. Experiment, play around and see what feels good and what feels less good. Climb faster, slower, dynamically and statically.

It's not always possible in many areas as there simply not enough problems at the right grade sometimes so doing stuff at a good indoor wall might help too (if available to you).

I also find that doing things that are really hard can sometimes help too. If you're working on say a single hand or foot move over and over again you can be forced to use perfect technique because anything less won't work. But probably the main thing is to shift your focus from trying to get to the top (succeed) to climbing with perfect technique. If you climb with better technique the successes will mount up by themselves anyway.

In reply to stp:

Work on your abs.Wear a lighter jacket.

In reply to stp:

Agree with all of your post, particularly this:


So often people (understandably) are so focused on the outcome that they don't pay enough attention to the process... which ironically lessens the chances of desired outcomes being attained.

I know the American, "Follow the process," sometimes seems like a sodding mantra. But err... they're right.

Mick

In reply to paul mitchell:


lighter colour jacket - no chance...
lighter in weight - Yes when it isn't December (or January or Feb!!)

...and the jacket hides my (lack of) abs !!! I don't do shirtless climbing by the way!

In reply to andy007:

I'm with Mehmet on this. Palming down with your right gives you a stable "triangle", you can then place your right foot rather than slap it on, giving you the triangle again and your right hand is free to go wherever best.
Best thing now is go and have another play with all suggestions - is it easier?
Enjoy.
Chris

In reply to andy007:

As a bit of a punter even before I pretty much gave up climbing properly I'm not really sure I'm qualified to comment but to my eye your movements seem uncertain, hurried stabs and snatches. Some moves and indeed problems just end up climbing like that (for a given level of climber skill anyway) and it can work but when I'm climbing like that it suggests to me I'm not getting it right. Not getting my weight in the right place under my hands or over my feet, perhaps that I'm not quite pushing and pulling in the right places, usually that's feet, sometimes a palm, knee, heel, sometimes just flagging a leg out or shifting the torso so their weight shifts the CcG or applies some torque... whatever it takes to balance things up and get stable.

I'd suggest drop the grade a bit and take some pleasure in moving really fluidly, in full control, able to stop and reverse at will. Get your your center of mass fully under your control and between/over the points supporting it then take that control and attention to detail back to the harder problems.
jk

In reply to jkarran:

Basically I am not the best on anything with an overhang. Give me slabs and I can climb harder grades/ look better and more controlled and stable when doing it IMO.

I have a desire to be better at stuff beyond vertical as I think it is holding me back from enjoying certain types of routes.. i.e. at present I wouldn't think of doing the sloth at the roaches, but when I go there I think maybe one day... well here is me beginning the process- however long it may take. . Comments on here have certainly been helpful so far

In reply to andy007:

Get on it, the steep bit is steady, it's a 45degree jug ladder with a bit of a wide jam to wriggle and grunt over the lip

Hope my comments didn't offend.
jk

In reply to jkarran:


not at all - I agree with you - that I tend to see a roof, even a little low one like this, and rush the climbing. Basically, I have uploaded a video of what I am worst at with the hope that other peoples eyes/ experience/ opinions would be of use and help me become a better climber

I have for years stuck to what I am best at and climbed the grades that I can climb - which tends to be more slabs and walls. I have come to roof/ overhang climbs with a lot less confidence because I know it is a weakness of mine. This affects my ability to climb. So posting on here is the start of my attempt to seriously get them sorted would be a good step for me (and probably lots of people) to get overhangs sorted. Hopefully more of a guidebook would be climbable - or at least I would be able to have a good go at more routes. (This is one part - my other major weakness being crack climbs i.e. the crank at Ramshaw rocks just hurts too much to climb!)

In reply to andy007:

Just a note to say thanks to everyone who commented - ALL your comments have been helpful and have given me food for thought. I have a few things to focus on in the coming months and look forward to the results next year.

In reply to andy007:

Looks like you could have used your high left hand and pressed down with your right to lift your body away from the rock to create space for a foot rather than matching and dry humping your way to the top.

Lastly, why are you wearing a top and where is your beanie?

That chalk clearly isn't the £15 per ounce stuff, the music also should have been some light hipster ambient white noise.

Where is your small crag dog/hedgehog/cat and monologue about how you feel?

In reply to alx:
apologies for being normal!! I am obviously not as egotistical or down with the kids or whatever it is that I don't sell my soul to!! If I was, I probably wouldn't have posted a video of me making mistakes and needing to improve with a request for other peoples opinions about my climbing.

However, you are the second person to say about using the right hand in that way. When I am not feeling like it is too cold or wet, I am intending to go back and have a few more goes trying the route with improved technique. I will also wear my beanie and take my pet rabbit with me next time if it helps!

...and the chalk (which is a massive loose bag for only a few pounds from go outdoors - other shops sell chalk as well!!) I can verify can be used to take the moisture off your boots and chalk your hands for sandstone routes of at least up to V3 in December in North wales!!!

And as for using Rush as the music.. most people have never heard of them and I like their music - I even saw them at Wembley arena about 20 or so years ago!! They were brilliant - especially the drummer, Neil Peart.

In reply to andy007:

I'm pulling your leg about the beanie.

Tops off for power though?

In reply to alx:

Wasn't sure whether to like or dislike your last comment - tops off!!! I need to turn the one pack into a six pack first!

as with beanies - isn't it (the very old fashioned) pom pom hats this year... Pom pom hats bring back nightmares from the 1970's. I still haven't forgiven my mum for making me wear those things!

I do sometimes wear a beanie, but my wife says I look like I am about to rob a shop, so I try not to unless it is really cold. However, if it helps my climbing I may have to wear one.

In reply to andy007:



I was photographed by a speed camera wearing my black fleece beanie (it was really cold). And I did indeed look like a really dodgy character. I paid up immediately