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A cheap classic as a second car.

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 The New NickB 13 Dec 2016
As a household we get along fine sharing a fairly new, reliable, practical, economical and boring car. At least it isn't a problem 95% of the time.

I have been toying with the idea of buying an inexpensive classic car, something that will be cheap to own, can be used occasionally when needed and is good fun to drive on an occasional weekend trip.

I was thinking of something like a pre-1972 GM Midget. No tax, cheap classic car insurance and cheap parts. I would be able to garage it.

Has anyone done similar. I appreciate that it wouldn't be anything like as reliable, but is it a really stupid idea?
 Mike Highbury 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:
> I was thinking of something like a pre-1972 GM Midget. No tax, cheap classic car insurance and cheap parts. I would be able to garage it.

My MG of a similar vintage was full of rust and that was 30 years ago.

Dead easy to work on though.

In reply to The New NickB: Not a stupid idea!

I almost bought a 1972 round wheel arch MG Midget a few years ago. starting family stopped purchase in it's tracks. I am still planning on getting one in a few years time. Annoyingly when i was looking a decent one cost about £3-4k, now they are quite a bit more. Have you driven one? They are good fun, tiny cars, lovely with the roof down in the summer. Easy to get parts for, uncomplicated and you can spend your time gradually turning it into concourse condition. Tan seats for me...racing green or teal blue
 John Ww 13 Dec 2016
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
I had an S reg 1500 rubber bumper British Racing Green one with tan seats and loved it! A grease gun for the kingpins is an essential bit of kit however, coupled with good quality A/F spanners, a hydraulic jack and an A/F socket set

JW

Ps - I also had an MGB GT - the worst chunk of shite I've ever had the misfortune to own!
Post edited at 16:17
Lusk 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Get a Capri, best car I've ever had.
Dead easy to work on too.
Driving on roads like Hardknott Pass, a passenger is very useful to tell you where the road is now and again!
 tspoon1981 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

I've just gone through the same dilemma, I wanted a series landrover, then looked at a 57 beetle, basically I flitted between the idea of different cars of eras, styles and ages. I've ended up with an 86 T25 tin top van. My better half turned me off several cars, she wanted something vaguely practical, hence a camper conversion.

It's not a silly idea, as long as you're realistic about what you're buying, the pros, cons and costs involved. Our T25 will be a project, a financial black hole, a pain in the arse, but fun and useful for pootling around the Highlands in something with loads more character than a T4.
 nniff 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

I did that - nice RWA Midget - red.

Rust is the great Satan and finding a good one cheap is easier said than done. There are any number of superficially lovely cars that are not.

I always thought that 'growing family forces sale' meant that the car was too small. It doesn't - it means that you have to sell the car to contribute to the extension to the house when teenagers get too big.

My little Midget's finest hour was lining up at some traffic lights next to a huge red soft top Ferrari. The latter sat there snarling and crackling away with some youngster in gold Elvis sunglasses at the wheel.

The Midget was quick up to about 30 mph and so I though we might as well give it a go for a laugh. Off we shot, and all I heard behind me was the sound of a Ferrari engine hitting its rev limiter and going bonkers. In due course, he put it into gear and came screaming past us, but by that time we were an embarrasssingly long way down the road and at straight road cruising speed, arm nonchalantly on the sill........
 Greasy Prusiks 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

I've spent a fair bit of time around MGs (which probably explains the state of my prussiks) so here's my musings...

If you want a cheap and reliable transport then the answer is definitely don't do it! It will break down (almost certainly on your way to a job interview or similar) , it won't do modern mpg, it won't start in the cold, it'll leak in the rain, it'll be slow on the motorway, it'll be loud inside and anything you leave in it is pretty much on a permanent buy none get one free offer.

However if you want something really fun to drive it'll definitely put a smile on your face. You just have to accept that enjoying fixing it is part of the fun! You're also unlikely to loose any money if you sell it in a year as classics don't deprecate (just don't buy from a dealer!).

So in short as a hobby yes but as transport probably not.


Ps. If you can't fix it yourself don't bother, putting it in a garage every time it breaks is unaffordable.
 LastBoyScout 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

My Dad has a thing about MG Bs - think he's had 5 in total and still has 2, possibly 3, both roadster and GT.

Most of them have been in pretty good condition, considering age (previous owners had spent quite a bit restoring them), but he's having a bit of a wrangle with the latest one that turned out to be rather miss-sold on condition and has major rust problems with the chassis.

Yes, they have quirks - he got rid of one due to problems with the electrics, but mainly because he didn't like the rubber bumpers and alloys. The first GT is pretty much his runabout car for most things, since they downsized 2 ageing modern cars to just one that my Mum mainly drives. It's actually pretty reliable and suits him fine, as he volunteers at Brooklands motor museum.

Still, it keeps him happy tinkering with them - he's a good mechanic and has most of the tools and knowledge. Keeps threatening to re-build the spare engine he's got from the first one.

You'll enjoy wondering about overdrive
1
 herbe_rouge 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

My daily drive is a 1972 MGB GT. Tax free, ultra cheap insurance, about 25 MPG if you take care and about 12 if you hammer it. Gearboxes are pretty much bombproof but do get one with overdrive. Look out for rust just about everywhere but particularly castle sections on the chassis. As for reliability, in the last five years it has let me down once ( petrol pump failure). General maintenance in that time has involved nothing more than replacing pipes to oil cooler, brake pads etc. Parts are dirt cheap and freely available. My previous car was a modern Alfa, I have not missed replacing lambda sensors, titanium tipped spark plugs, timing belts and rear sub-frames on a circadian rhythm.

Had a Midget once, fun but the 1300 a bit underpowered. The MGB GT much cheaper than the roadster and handles better. If you do it, concentrate on the mechanics rather than aesthetics and fit negative camber wishbones before any other handling improvement. hth
 jon 13 Dec 2016
In reply to John Ww:

> Ps - I also had an MGB GT - the worst chunk of shite I've ever had the misfortune to own!

Yes, me too. Like opening a bank account with your local garage. Always fancied a Frog-Eye Sprite, though.

 Fraser 13 Dec 2016
In reply to nniff:

> I did that - nice RWA Midget - red.

I had a (BRG then latterly white) '74 RWA for about 10 years. In all that time, it was mostly off the road, so frequently in fact that my wife said MG stood for "might go". Once I'd fully restored it, it finally did go, in both senses of the word. Nice cars, albeit very narrow - I can still almost feel that inner door panel against my right arm now.

Being a bit of a petrol head, my dad gave me a lot of help on the car over those 10 years and got the restoration bug, so bought his own Midget, which he kept for a while, got another, sold that and finally got a '69 MGB roadster, on which he did a full heritage shell restoration and still has it to this day. It now does about 500 miles a year in it, if he's lucky!
 knighty 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Older Mazda MX5s seem to fit the bill in terms of an older car that will not depreciate. They might even appreciate from here. Not a classic. Yet...
Removed User 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

I had a rwa Midget with a 1480cc A-series engine which made it bloody fast and a handful in the wet. I didn't keep it long though. Great fun, they look good de-bumpered and it's easy to turn them into hillclimb weapons.

If you can spend more, what about a Caterham? Simple, uncomplicated and cheap to run and depreciation-proof.

If you get something, post some links to pics on here, I like a drool over old sports cars so I do.
 Yanis Nayu 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Good idea I reckon. I had a '76 Midget as my main car for a while and it was great fun.
Removed User 13 Dec 2016
In reply to knighty:

> Older Mazda MX5s seem to fit the bill in terms of an older car that will not depreciate. They might even appreciate from here. Not a classic. Yet...

You could get a solid Porsche 944 for about 4k about 5 years ago, and I nearly bought one but had an attack of 'sense' and didn't. They appear to have shot up in price somewhat, much to my regret.
 jimtitt 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Coming from a generation where MG Midgets were normal, not classic and having driven a few it´ s worth noting that "fun" quickly turns into terror when you realise the handling is limited in it´ s potential and the brakes were inadequate even back then. Otherwise carry on in an exploration of why BL/BMC went down the drain
 mike123 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB
is it a really stupid idea? Yes. Probably .
Should that stop you ? No . Definitly .
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 Timmd 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

An MGA with a 5 speed MGB gearbox (fitted by you?) could be worth thinking about?

They're lovely looking cars. My Dad has a convertible one in red which used to be a creamy white colour and left hand drive, before being changed when it came into the UK.

They're apparently fun to drive, enjoyable to ride in on a sunny summer's day.


 colinakmc 13 Dec 2016
In reply to Timmd:

When did the MGB ever have a 5 speed gearboxes? It's basically a two seater Morris Oxford....
(Sits back and waits for trolls)
 Fraser 13 Dec 2016
In reply to Removed User:

> I had a rwa Midget with a 1480cc A-series engine which made it bloody fast and a handful in the wet.

Are you sure about that? I thought the RWA models stopped in'74, the same time they switched back to square arches (& big rubber bumpers) due to US crash regulation requirements. And I don't think the '1500' engines introduced at the same time were A-series.

Agree with your Caterham suggestion though, I'd love one of those.
 Big Ger 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

I've always fancied getting a Ford Anglia as a second car. My first car was a 1959 Anglia.

 arch 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Karmann Ghia
OP The New NickB 13 Dec 2016
In reply to arch:

> Karmann Ghia

About 3-4 times the price of an MG Midget.
 arch 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Three or four times the car though.



How about an Austin Allergo then, could you afford one of them ??
OP The New NickB 13 Dec 2016
In reply to arch:

> Three or four times the car though.

> How about an Austin Allergo then, could you afford one of them ??

I could afford the Karmann, but you are missing the point.
1
 Mooncat 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Get a clio 172/182 look for a racing blue one they're the best handling fwd car there is and they're starting to appreciate.
 Fraser 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

What about an original Mini? I think they appreciate a bit, are still great fun to drive and don't cost much to do so. Okay, they have more rust than a bunch of Midgets combined but at that age, they're likely to have had a complete restoration or possible new body shell.

Or how about a Healey 3L, a Scimitar or an old Alfa Spider?
 wintertree 13 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

> but is it a really stupid idea?

If you don't have your own garage, tools, mechanical aptitude and another car to use running around for parts it's a really expensive idea. Getting a garage to do oddball repair jobs on an old car is neither easy nor cheap.

OP The New NickB 13 Dec 2016
In reply to wintertree:

> If you don't have your own garage, tools, mechanical aptitude and another car to use running around for parts it's a really expensive idea. Getting a garage to do oddball repair jobs on an old car is neither easy nor cheap.

I have a garage and I can do the simple jobs. I also have another car, this would just be for the 5% of the time when it is useful to have a second car, plus the odd enjoyable drive. I can't bare the idea of having two cars depreciating, one is bad enough.
Removed User 14 Dec 2016
In reply to Fraser:

It wasn't a standard engine, very far from it. Not sure about bhp but prob in the region of 140. It was fairly mental. Not much of the rest of the car was standard either, had been a race car reconverted back to being road legal.
 Fraser 14 Dec 2016
In reply to Removed User:

Aah I see, thanks for clarifying. I sort of know a bit about Midgets from that era reasonably well and was quite confused by the spec you gave. Sounds like it would shift a bit!
OP The New NickB 14 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Thanks all. Obviously I meant MG not GM, I've only just spotted the typo.
 TMM 14 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Interesting dilemma. I am just having a garage and car port constructed at the moment and I have been tempted to find something to put in there.

'Classic' prices have gone through the roof over the last 8 years as interest payments on deposit savings have forced investors to look elsewhere. Wine, watches and cars are all investments from which the owner can derive pleasure and perhaps see their invested sum remain stable or increase.

If the car needs to be a credible 2nd car with a degree of reliability I would inclined to move forward a decade to the 1980's and look at some of the soft tops that now have classic status. The BMW 3 series cabrio is a tiny wee thing in comparison with its modern namesake. The MB W124 cabrio is a handsome looking beast capable of carrying four and still looks very classy. The Saab 900 Turbo convertible offers fun, scuttle shake and turbo lag in equal measure. The styling is so wonderfully at odds with today's cars. The Mk1 MX5 is also only going to increase in value. These cars may give you more miles and less skinned knuckles than a 1970's BMC product.

Move into the 90's and you can still get classic insurance on an Alfa GTV or Fiat Barchetta. These cars will not lose any more money and may represent a better investment as they are on the cusp of being 'classic'.

If you don't want open top thrills then a VR6 Corrado looks like a solid place to put your money.

Obviously it all depends on what takes your fancy. I have a looked the MGs before but when I catch sight of myself going past a reflective building I always look like I am riding it rather than sitting in it.

Just wish I had bought a 993 or 968 when prices were sensible.

Heart and head time.
 wbo 14 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB: i think you should do it, but i wouldn't have an MG as they're just too much work and pretty awful to drive in my limited experience. Z3 ? MX-5 would be better for me

 Scott K 14 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Z3 M would be a good shout or an Audi S2. They are both going up in value at the moment though.
 Toerag 14 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Lotus Carlton.
 jkarran 14 Dec 2016
In reply to Scott K:
Z3M is great and generally far better looked after than M3s of the same age but I wouldn't suggest buying one (I have one, roadster, not coupe), the M premium on servicing is horrible and the 3.0 is almost as fast but with hydraulic tappets and sensible service intervals.

As a road-going toy I'd buy a Seven of some sort. As a summer second car an MX5 or Z3, both would prove practical, affordable and reliable.
jk
Post edited at 11:21
 Jim Hamilton 14 Dec 2016
In reply to wbo:

> i think you should do it, but i wouldn't have an MG as they're just too much work and pretty awful to drive in my limited experience. Z3 ? MX-5 would be better for me

I remember the 71 era Midget/Sprite as a great car to drive, and an enjoyable change from the cosseted modern car experience - except, as said, when on motorways/dual carriageway. Although agree it wouldn't be my choice as a second car - perhaps fourth!
 robal 14 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Do it, you wont regret it, just make sure you buy a good enough starter vehicle, it'll save you loads of time in the long run.

Buy something that's as original as possible, they designed it that way for a reason. simple mods like electric ignition is ok but buying something that has had a big v8 shoved in there or anything like that is going to end in expense.

Try to spend over what your budget is in your head, again, this will save you in the long run.
 Mike Highbury 14 Dec 2016
In reply to TMM:
> Just wish I had bought a 993 or 968 when prices were sensible.

Buying them is really not where the expense lies!

 graeme jackson 14 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

I've had a 1971 1275 Mg midget since I was 20. Finished a ground up restoration a few years ago and I've been reliving my youth ever since so well worth the effort. in an attempt to piss off the purists, I painted it in candy apple red and added as much bling as possible. Engine has been bored, fast road cam, big valve head etc so it's also very quick.
pic might work...
http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&access=5162314560...
 Fraser 14 Dec 2016
In reply to graeme jackson:

Very nice indeed. Personally I'd add the thin chrome cill strip as I think they help to visually 'lower' the car, but it's personal taste. Like the Minilites too, I stuck with the Rostyles which I was never really a huge fan of.
 Ian W 14 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Go for a B roadster; buy the best you can afford. Midges are ok, but not if you are tall, (or especially if you are broad) and wont keep up with modern traffic so easily. Ignore the tales of expensive repairs, there is a vast network of specialists that are way cheaper than "normal" garages. My B was the cheapest vehicle I ever owned for running costs, and I did 96k in 7 years.

The tin worm will be an ever present issue, but even replacing the sills including castle sections will by less than £600 per side. Make sure the engine has been converted to run on unleaded.

The nearest modern car to an mgb from the above posts is the mx5. However if you want the old classic vibe, you'll be disappointed in the mazda, even though they are more affordable and certainly more reliable.
In reply to The New NickB:
What the hell is wrong with you all. Surely its got to be the MG Metro or Montego, perhaps even the turbo version.

Nah, but seriously, great thread. I often watch Ed China and Mike on Wheeler Dealers and like the look of having a hobby. Ed makes it look so easy and Mike obviously has his contacts. Its a great show for the budding petrol head.

Ive often thought about doing something similar but I just wouldnt have the patience with a 'proper' classic and would probably go with something like an older Honda S2000, early Maserati GT roadster (cheap cars but, eek, those parts prices). Something which would hold and inflate but would be practical and have modern conveniences or perhaps one of these to lovingly bring back to showroom condition and then spend hours polishing it and driving it once per year.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201608106666575?onesearchad=U...

Edit as the link isnt working. It is an M5 W plate for about 7grand.
Post edited at 14:08
In reply to Scott K:

> Z3 M would be a good shout or an Audi S2. They are both going up in value at the moment though.

Better would be an RS2 but prices are massive http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C770207 so hardly a fixer up job. More a park and be worried job as security wouldnt be very good.

Although a lot more fun than an Octavia Estate.
 nniff 14 Dec 2016
.In reply to graeme jackson:

> I've had a 1971 1275 Mg midget


Pretty much like mine visually - my interior was black though


A more recent option might be a Peugeot 205 GTI. Still the most fun car I've ever had and that includes the current fun car/wife's daily driver which is a BMW Z4
 pneame 15 Dec 2016
In reply to jimtitt:
> Coming from a generation where MG Midgets were normal, not classic and having driven a few it´ s worth noting that "fun" quickly turns into terror when you realise the handling is limited in it´ s potential and the brakes were inadequate even back then. Otherwise carry on in an exploration of why BL/BMC went down the drain

No kidding - I managed to spin mine (1964 1275 cc engine; british racing green. Hot!) on the way to N. Wales. Very nearly flipped it actually, which would have been the end of me. It never did steer quite right after that until the lads at the local backstreet garage took a hammer to the front suspension. In spite of the fact that it was an absolute piece of shite I have rather fond memories of it.

Another occasion I got from Nant Peris to the east end of Betwys with no brakes whatsoever. Then things went a bit pear shaped as I needed some fuel. The polis were not amused but I managed to BS my way out of trouble somehow.
Post edited at 19:11
In reply to graeme jackson:

That looks lovely; colour scheme works for me. All the panels seem to actually fit... Original body shell or replacement?

Got any more shots?

I remember helping a mate's landlord rebuild a B using a new shell (Coventry Classics?), and being shocked at how crude some of the panel details were (e.g. window slots). I'm not sure my OCD perfectionism could cope with letting those details go...
 Scott K 16 Dec 2016
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
There was a low mileage one up for offers around £80k-just crazy money. One of my friends sold one about 8 years ago for 17k which I thought was a lot then! Bet he wished he had kept it.
 Trangia 16 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Series Landy?

Easy to maintain and work on, reliable, distinctive, cheap to run, hold their value, great view over the tops of hedges, well ventilated, uncomfortable on long journeys, big 4x4 range including option to select low range, and tough.
 jkarran 16 Dec 2016
In reply to nniff:

> A more recent option might be a Peugeot 205 GTI.

Good call, 205 is the best of its generation but prices have been really silly for years.

Clio172/182 is similar fun (save for the over-assisted steering) at sensible money. Not especially classic though. Closest driving experience to the 205 is probably 106Gti/SaxoVTS or the 1.6Rallye (the 1.3 is great but the engine is bike like by comparison). I love 80s Peugeot.
jk

 Nevis-the-cat 16 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

right, forget all this Mg bolluex - you're paying for a name and you'll need to buy a cravat.

Triumph Spitfire - MkIV if you prefer going forwards rather than backwards.

Piss easy to work on, much nicer cabin than the MG midget, 1300 is ok, 1500 better (and they put that in the Midget later anyway). Set of big carbs, decent Konis on the back and it'll be a cracking car.

If you can stretch to it, get a Triumph GT6 - straight 2.0 l straight six, as used in the Vitesse. Mk3 has the best handling. again, miles nicer inside than the MGB, faster, better sorted and a better car all round.

Same clamshell bonnet as the Spitty - think E type.

Still a good price - a really good one is £10k.

Be careful of "later classics" - a 15 yr old M5 or somesuch could make you dry!

If you want a later classic - Scirocco, Capri (but they are now getting expensive), Opel Mantas are still overlooked, as are early 80's Mercs.

Land rovers - even a ratty SIII is £4k upwards. Lightweights ok value ,but they a come with Rule 5 - HTFU and the other car is your crumple zone
 Nevis-the-cat 16 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

and if you do choose the virtuous path of Alfa Romeo ownership, which i highly recommend, I'd be happy to share my tales of daring do and pitiful woe via PM.

A Kamm tail spider can still be found for less than £15k, and you can flick the bird at MG drivers as you waft past with your all aluminum twin cam engine, all round discs, 5 sped all synchro box and independent suspension - non of this cart spring shit.

In reply to Toerag:

> Lotus Carlton.

Excellent choice but try finding one. When it was in production in the early 90's they reckon there were less than 1,000 on the road. If you were lucky to turn one up now it'd cost at least 25 grand. Hardly a cheap classic.
 Ian W 16 Dec 2016
In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

And the running costs.........not those of a large saloon, but a supercar that happens to be large.
OP The New NickB 16 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

Thanks everybody, not fixed on Midget, but definitely thinking something in the spirit of the small, nimble and probably underpowered sports cars of the period.

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