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In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Cheers Greasy Prusiks
Cheers Greasy Prusiks
Cheers Greasy Prusiks
> Great video.
> Good to see a quality film of a classic route.
Cheers Greasy Prusiks
In reply to ipfreely:
Does anyone else think the belayer is stood too far back, in the long shot about when you're placing your third piece? I'd be asking mine to stand closer than. But it's not an uncommon practice, so maybe others don't see it as a problem.
Does anyone else think the belayer is stood too far back, in the long shot about when you're placing your third piece? I'd be asking mine to stand closer than. But it's not an uncommon practice, so maybe others don't see it as a problem.
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In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Looks fine to me, he's in a place where he can watch carefully and comfortably. You need to be closer in for the first 1-2 pieces so that you don't pull the gear outwards from below in a fall, but once you are up around the 3rd and with the gear at the angle in the film (ie the first piece isn't too low) I don't see it as a problem. Double ropes help too as one rope can't unzip everything, as does the fact that most of the gear on the route is cams.
Nice video of a good route. I'd have probably found the drone annoying though...is it loud?
Looks fine to me, he's in a place where he can watch carefully and comfortably. You need to be closer in for the first 1-2 pieces so that you don't pull the gear outwards from below in a fall, but once you are up around the 3rd and with the gear at the angle in the film (ie the first piece isn't too low) I don't see it as a problem. Double ropes help too as one rope can't unzip everything, as does the fact that most of the gear on the route is cams.
Nice video of a good route. I'd have probably found the drone annoying though...is it loud?
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In reply to Si dH:
I fell off once with a belayer stood back like that. Ended up on his face. Glad he was using a gri-gri.
> Looks fine to me, he's in a place where he can watch carefully and comfortably.
I fell off once with a belayer stood back like that. Ended up on his face. Glad he was using a gri-gri.
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In reply to ipfreely:
Nice video, brought back memories of the 'swim' at the top!!
Love the backing track as well....
Nice video, brought back memories of the 'swim' at the top!!
Love the backing track as well....
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
It's a fair point, i suppose he could be a little closer, but he's just crept back a bit to see the climber.
It's a fair point, i suppose he could be a little closer, but he's just crept back a bit to see the climber.
In reply to ipfreely:
Nice film, really shows the nature of the route. Make a great change from all the sickness inducing POV films out there.
Lee
Nice film, really shows the nature of the route. Make a great change from all the sickness inducing POV films out there.
Lee
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In reply to ipfreely:
Good film, I used to be able to lead climb HVS 5a a few years ago and seconded the left unconquerable but for some reason that looks desperate, especially the finish. It must be one of the harder HVS 5as around.
Good film, I used to be able to lead climb HVS 5a a few years ago and seconded the left unconquerable but for some reason that looks desperate, especially the finish. It must be one of the harder HVS 5as around.
In reply to outtathaway:
Nope. They get *a lot* harder than RU. Try Terrazza Crack, any of the Hen Cloud ones, The Mincer, etc, etc.
> It must be one of the harder HVS 5as around.
Nope. They get *a lot* harder than RU. Try Terrazza Crack, any of the Hen Cloud ones, The Mincer, etc, etc.
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In reply to ipfreely:
Thanks for that - brought back some great memories - one of my favourite short climbs. Great film!
Thanks for that - brought back some great memories - one of my favourite short climbs. Great film!
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In reply to Jon Stewart:
Admittedly a tough little number. And I found this one even harder:
Deuteronomy (E1 5b)
> Try Terrazza Crack
Admittedly a tough little number. And I found this one even harder:
Deuteronomy (E1 5b)
Post edited at 12:11
In reply to Jon Stewart
Ah ok, it must be because I haven't climbed in ages that it seems more difficult. I wish I'd have tried it when I was climbing relatively well a few years ago.
Post edited at 12:13
In reply to ipfreely:
what happened to the gopro/chest harness when stepping up to the first flake?
did you do the route a couple of times?
what happened to the gopro/chest harness when stepping up to the first flake?
did you do the route a couple of times?
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In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Horrendous - unjammable cracks.
> Admittedly a tough little number. And I found this one even harder:
Horrendous - unjammable cracks.
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In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Yeah one could say that, however I know those guys and that belayer in particular very well and the reason he wasn't directly under the leader at the wall was so he didn't get landed on in the event the leader fell. You're right that many belayers practice this and if they are capable of controlling a pull into the rock face along with zero risk of the leader grounding then it's not really taboo.
Great video though and soundtrack!
Yeah one could say that, however I know those guys and that belayer in particular very well and the reason he wasn't directly under the leader at the wall was so he didn't get landed on in the event the leader fell. You're right that many belayers practice this and if they are capable of controlling a pull into the rock face along with zero risk of the leader grounding then it's not really taboo.
Great video though and soundtrack!
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In reply to Rocknast:
Just stand to one side?
Not convinced.
> so he didn't get landed on in the event the leader fell
Just stand to one side?
> You're right that many belayers practice this and if they are capable of controlling a pull into the rock face along with zero risk of the leader grounding then it's not really taboo.
Not convinced.
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In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Aha ok mate, to put it into a much better perspective it is the same distance as the climber and belayer in your picture of the guy climbing Right Wall (VS 4c) within your photo collection.
J
Aha ok mate, to put it into a much better perspective it is the same distance as the climber and belayer in your picture of the guy climbing Right Wall (VS 4c) within your photo collection.
J
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In reply to Rocknast:
You seem to be taking this personally because you know the belayer. That's not going to get anywhere is it? We've all made mistakes and learned from them.
> Aha ok mate, to put it into a much better perspective it is the same distance as the climber and belayer in your picture of the guy climbing Right Wall (VS 4c) within your photo collection.
You seem to be taking this personally because you know the belayer. That's not going to get anywhere is it? We've all made mistakes and learned from them.
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In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Na not at all mate, either I mislead u or u made the wrong assumption. Probably a bit of both. Just sounded like u were milking a minor problem that's all.
Na not at all mate, either I mislead u or u made the wrong assumption. Probably a bit of both. Just sounded like u were milking a minor problem that's all.
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In reply to Rocknast:
Milking? I made a comment because I've seen it a lot recently and it sprung to mind watching the vid. I think it's a problem, and thought it might raise awareness.
EDIT: So it is a problem? Even if it's a minor one. Where did the zero risk go?
Can you explain why you looked though my photos and made the comment if it's not personal?
> Na not at all mate, either I mislead u or u made the wrong assumption. Probably a bit of both. Just sounded like u were milking a minor problem that's all.
Milking? I made a comment because I've seen it a lot recently and it sprung to mind watching the vid. I think it's a problem, and thought it might raise awareness.
EDIT: So it is a problem? Even if it's a minor one. Where did the zero risk go?
Can you explain why you looked though my photos and made the comment if it's not personal?
Post edited at 14:37
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In reply to thlcr1:
Cheers Lee, I'm guilty of making a few of the POV's myself
> Nice film, really shows the nature of the route. Make a great change from all the sickness inducing POV films out there.
> Lee
Cheers Lee, I'm guilty of making a few of the POV's myself
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In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Yes of course I will bud! U thought it was a long way away from the belayer so I found a pic that u are already familiar with (hence one of yours in your collection) to give u a kind and thoughtful illustration of the real distance on this occasion. I'm sorry if u found that offensive.
The bottom of right unconquerable slopes upwards towards the rock too which will affect perspective.
Anyway merry Xmas and a happy new year fella!!
Yes of course I will bud! U thought it was a long way away from the belayer so I found a pic that u are already familiar with (hence one of yours in your collection) to give u a kind and thoughtful illustration of the real distance on this occasion. I'm sorry if u found that offensive.
The bottom of right unconquerable slopes upwards towards the rock too which will affect perspective.
Anyway merry Xmas and a happy new year fella!!
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In reply to Rocknast:
What do you think you're doing?! You can't just apologies for offending someone on UKC!
If you'd shown any respect for UKCs rich tradition of discussions on belaying technique then you'd both have carried for a minimum of 150 posts with discussion getting more and more personal and aggressive until either of you stops posting or you both agree that Hitler was wrong to invade Poland. You then sign off by wishing a plague of midges on the other climber and warning them if you ever meet you have a number 4 hex with their name on it.
No respect for tradition
What do you think you're doing?! You can't just apologies for offending someone on UKC!
If you'd shown any respect for UKCs rich tradition of discussions on belaying technique then you'd both have carried for a minimum of 150 posts with discussion getting more and more personal and aggressive until either of you stops posting or you both agree that Hitler was wrong to invade Poland. You then sign off by wishing a plague of midges on the other climber and warning them if you ever meet you have a number 4 hex with their name on it.
No respect for tradition
Post edited at 15:16
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In reply to Rocknast:
Not really.
It's not really offensive, just you're saying a lot of things that don't really add up. People practice standing far back? Zero risk? But it's still minor problem? I was milking it (one comment and the rest were responses like this)? It sounds defensive rather than offensive. Anyway...
> I found a pic that u are already familiar with
Not really.
> I'm sorry if u found that offensive.
It's not really offensive, just you're saying a lot of things that don't really add up. People practice standing far back? Zero risk? But it's still minor problem? I was milking it (one comment and the rest were responses like this)? It sounds defensive rather than offensive. Anyway...
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In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Ahaha yes lad, well said! LOL some of them do go on forever; i would lose interest well before that though lol wouldn't be the same public forum site without it would it lol
Ahaha yes lad, well said! LOL some of them do go on forever; i would lose interest well before that though lol wouldn't be the same public forum site without it would it lol
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In reply to Rocknast:
Anecdotal then. Not that I have any, but I think it's good practice generally to stand closer, and you appear to agree.
> 20 years climbing experience has a lot to do with it.
Anecdotal then. Not that I have any, but I think it's good practice generally to stand closer, and you appear to agree.
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In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Never said anything to the contrary. It is good to stand closer 9 times out of 10. But it's not usually a big problem if u don't.
Never said anything to the contrary. It is good to stand closer 9 times out of 10. But it's not usually a big problem if u don't.
In reply to Rocknast:
Thanks.
> Never said anything to the contrary. It is good to stand closer 9 times out of 10.
Thanks.
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In reply to ipfreely:
Some problem with continuity and the belayer. On the long shots he has a black tee, and close up he has a blue collar so did he take his top off when is partner was half way up the climb? Or did they change the belayer?
Some problem with continuity and the belayer. On the long shots he has a black tee, and close up he has a blue collar so did he take his top off when is partner was half way up the climb? Or did they change the belayer?
Post edited at 17:15
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In reply to Sean Kelly: They perhaps to replace the original as he didn't follow good practice and the bloke leading fell on him
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In reply to Sean Kelly:
There's three vantage points in the video: from the ground, from abseil rope, and a variable one, presumably from a drone. Unless the climber had access to multiple camera operators, one would think he would have climbed the route at least twice, rather than hang around on the route while the person with the camera moved. My guess is that we're seeing bits of three ascents. Nothing wrong with that, of course
Anyway, however it was done, it's nice to see some effort put in to make a decent quality video of a mid-grade classic (and not super-hard and sponsored/professional).
There's three vantage points in the video: from the ground, from abseil rope, and a variable one, presumably from a drone. Unless the climber had access to multiple camera operators, one would think he would have climbed the route at least twice, rather than hang around on the route while the person with the camera moved. My guess is that we're seeing bits of three ascents. Nothing wrong with that, of course
Anyway, however it was done, it's nice to see some effort put in to make a decent quality video of a mid-grade classic (and not super-hard and sponsored/professional).
Post edited at 19:02
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In reply to robal:
Yeah the route was climbed a couple of times
> what happened to the gopro/chest harness when stepping up to the first flake?
> did you do the route a couple of times?
Yeah the route was climbed a couple of times
In reply to Sean Kelly:
The route was climbed a couple of times to get all the shots, continuity was spoiled a bit, 🙂
The route was climbed a couple of times to get all the shots, continuity was spoiled a bit, 🙂
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Cheers BusyLizzie - it was me climbing in the vid, so thanks for the kind words
Cheers BusyLizzie - it was me climbing in the vid, so thanks for the kind words
In reply to Si dH:
Hey Si, I was the leader and no the drone didn't really bother me to be honest. Might do some folks though and certainly wouldn't be using it around others
Hey Si, I was the leader and no the drone didn't really bother me to be honest. Might do some folks though and certainly wouldn't be using it around others
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In reply to ipfreely:
I have two issues with this:
1) Technical T-shirt + trouser combo
2) Tw*ts with drones at crags.
Other than that a nice fillum though fcuk me watching people climbing grit gets tedious. As an artform it is the prog rock of climbing genres, though without the length of course...
I have two issues with this:
1) Technical T-shirt + trouser combo
2) Tw*ts with drones at crags.
Other than that a nice fillum though fcuk me watching people climbing grit gets tedious. As an artform it is the prog rock of climbing genres, though without the length of course...
Post edited at 02:48
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In reply to ipfreely:
I've not done the route - sadly, one of those that got away - but I had to wonder about how much easier the route must be when you've got a good holding of cams. If you could assess the adjectival grade for a cam-free ascent, what would it get?
Nice vid, BTW, but also wondering about how annoyed we're all(?) going to get by the increasing intrusion of drones into our climbing environment. I'm thinking of branching out into falconry.
I've not done the route - sadly, one of those that got away - but I had to wonder about how much easier the route must be when you've got a good holding of cams. If you could assess the adjectival grade for a cam-free ascent, what would it get?
Nice vid, BTW, but also wondering about how annoyed we're all(?) going to get by the increasing intrusion of drones into our climbing environment. I'm thinking of branching out into falconry.
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In reply to Rog Wilko:
HVS
> If you could assess the adjectival grade for a cam-free ascent, what would it get?
HVS
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In reply to ipfreely:
On of my early HVS leads, a good route. We then tried left unconquerable but failed on that when trying to link to the upper section.
Yep we led purely on nuts and hexes, plenty of protection.
On of my early HVS leads, a good route. We then tried left unconquerable but failed on that when trying to link to the upper section.
Yep we led purely on nuts and hexes, plenty of protection.
Post edited at 20:28
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In reply to steve.aisthorpe:
You're right about that tricky finish (spoiler Alert!!) The preceding stuff is steep but ok (infact you can even get an arms free rest with a crafty knee bar at one point) but turning the lip at the top was most inelegant
You're right about that tricky finish (spoiler Alert!!) The preceding stuff is steep but ok (infact you can even get an arms free rest with a crafty knee bar at one point) but turning the lip at the top was most inelegant
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In reply to pencilled in:
Yes, my memory is that I used several hexes and definitely my trusty old Moac. I don't have any recollection of using any Friends.
Yes, my memory is that I used several hexes and definitely my trusty old Moac. I don't have any recollection of using any Friends.
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In reply to Rog Wilko:
Thanks for taking a look, still HVS I would have thought, The question of drone annoyance is a valid one, but with thought And consideration it's not to much of a problem, I shot the drone footage early in the day, mid week, there was no one else around climbing, if there were other climbers I would have spoken to them about it first, to see if they mind, if they would mind us having a 20 min window to shoot, or just not use it at all. I know not everyone is considerate.
Thanks for taking a look, still HVS I would have thought, The question of drone annoyance is a valid one, but with thought And consideration it's not to much of a problem, I shot the drone footage early in the day, mid week, there was no one else around climbing, if there were other climbers I would have spoken to them about it first, to see if they mind, if they would mind us having a 20 min window to shoot, or just not use it at all. I know not everyone is considerate.
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In reply to ipfreely:
So maybe cams have brought it down to VS+? Speaking as someone who has never had a favourable power to weight ratio I think not having to hang on while you get a hex properly positioned can make a huge differences to how hard you find some routes and even whether you get up them or not.
Appreciate your thoughts and care on the use of drones. You may (or may not) know that up this part of the world there are now (since a ban on Windermere came in about 5 years ago) no vessels allowed to exceed 10 mph on our lakes and I think it's a great step forward in noise abatement. Similar considerations apply with drones, off-road motorcycles and 4x4 vehicles. I appreciate that drones are probably not much of a problem yet, but who knows what the future holds?
So maybe cams have brought it down to VS+? Speaking as someone who has never had a favourable power to weight ratio I think not having to hang on while you get a hex properly positioned can make a huge differences to how hard you find some routes and even whether you get up them or not.
Appreciate your thoughts and care on the use of drones. You may (or may not) know that up this part of the world there are now (since a ban on Windermere came in about 5 years ago) no vessels allowed to exceed 10 mph on our lakes and I think it's a great step forward in noise abatement. Similar considerations apply with drones, off-road motorcycles and 4x4 vehicles. I appreciate that drones are probably not much of a problem yet, but who knows what the future holds?
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In reply to Rog Wilko:
Right unconquerable is HVS just as cenotaph corner is E1, forever and ever amen - you can't just go around reinventing benchmark grades or you throw us into a world of chaos, maniac
Right unconquerable is HVS just as cenotaph corner is E1, forever and ever amen - you can't just go around reinventing benchmark grades or you throw us into a world of chaos, maniac
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In reply to Rog Wilko:
My (poorly placed) cam failed when I was sent flying from poor footwork but my roxcentric 10 stayed!
My (poorly placed) cam failed when I was sent flying from poor footwork but my roxcentric 10 stayed!
In reply to trouserburp:
Cemetery Gates remains HVS in my book both metaphorically and, since the book I have is the 1978 Llanberis Pass guide, literally.
T.
> Right unconquerable is HVS just as cenotaph corner is E1, forever and ever amen
Cemetery Gates remains HVS in my book both metaphorically and, since the book I have is the 1978 Llanberis Pass guide, literally.
T.
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In reply to Pursued by a bear: solid HVS. I lead it in the rain, so keen I was and it was still HVS. I got back on as a second with a bad case of seconditis and it was still HVS.
In reply to Rocknast:
It actually adds considerable risk in several ways, even more so on trad routes.
First it alters the direction of pull on the first runner. If the leader falls the changed direction could easily pull the nut up and out, causing at a longer fall than necessary.
Second is the altered direction of pull on the belayer. If the belayer is much heavier than the leader it might be OK but if they're the same or the leader is heavier the belayer can be pulled off balance, dragged sideways and thus may trip or stumble. They may even end up letting go of the belay device and if it's not autolocking the leader could deck it.
Of course if the leader doesn't fall it won't make any difference where you stand but if that's what you're relying on for safety then they may as well solo the route.
> It is good to stand closer 9 times out of 10. But it's not usually a big problem if u don't.
It actually adds considerable risk in several ways, even more so on trad routes.
First it alters the direction of pull on the first runner. If the leader falls the changed direction could easily pull the nut up and out, causing at a longer fall than necessary.
Second is the altered direction of pull on the belayer. If the belayer is much heavier than the leader it might be OK but if they're the same or the leader is heavier the belayer can be pulled off balance, dragged sideways and thus may trip or stumble. They may even end up letting go of the belay device and if it's not autolocking the leader could deck it.
Of course if the leader doesn't fall it won't make any difference where you stand but if that's what you're relying on for safety then they may as well solo the route.
In reply to trouserburp:
I happened to have seconded both of the routes behind the same leader in last year or so. Its odd that RU is technically harder than the supposed 5c move on CC!
> Right unconquerable is HVS just as cenotaph corner is E1, forever and ever amen -
I happened to have seconded both of the routes behind the same leader in last year or so. Its odd that RU is technically harder than the supposed 5c move on CC!
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In reply to TobyA:
Er...no it definitely isn't! Those moves past the pod on CC are easily two tech grades harder than anything on RU. The latter is a romp on big holds.
Er...no it definitely isn't! Those moves past the pod on CC are easily two tech grades harder than anything on RU. The latter is a romp on big holds.
Post edited at 08:54
In reply to Si dH:
Totally is too!
I know different styles suit different people but I was really nervous starting up CC even just as a second because i've been completely shut down by 5c moves before. But it went very smoothly, and didn't feel any harder than the HVS routes I had been doing on grit that year. Was annoyed I hadn't tried leading it after!
Totally is too!
I know different styles suit different people but I was really nervous starting up CC even just as a second because i've been completely shut down by 5c moves before. But it went very smoothly, and didn't feel any harder than the HVS routes I had been doing on grit that year. Was annoyed I hadn't tried leading it after!
In reply to TobyA:
I thought it was virtually no easier than left wall, there was really very little difference. Anyway, off topic!
I thought it was virtually no easier than left wall, there was really very little difference. Anyway, off topic!
Post edited at 09:04
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In reply to Rog Wilko:
Cams don't make climbing it any easier. They just make it quicker to place gear. It is still 5a climbing and quite a lot of it. The marginal extra safety gained from the placing of cams is not enough to offset the HVS nature of the route (unless you wanted to downgrade every pre-cam climb in the Peak district). I have climbed it with hexes and cams and found the difference to be marginal. There is less chance of a bably placed piece of gear lifting out. However RU was originally graded for a well protected HVS which it is. That has not changed.
Cams don't make climbing it any easier. They just make it quicker to place gear. It is still 5a climbing and quite a lot of it. The marginal extra safety gained from the placing of cams is not enough to offset the HVS nature of the route (unless you wanted to downgrade every pre-cam climb in the Peak district). I have climbed it with hexes and cams and found the difference to be marginal. There is less chance of a bably placed piece of gear lifting out. However RU was originally graded for a well protected HVS which it is. That has not changed.
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In reply to TobyA:
Sorry but arguing about a grade from the point of view of seconding is like judging wine from the contents of the spitoon
> I happened to have seconded both of the routes behind the same leader in last year or so. Its odd that RU is technically harder than the supposed 5c move on CC!
Sorry but arguing about a grade from the point of view of seconding is like judging wine from the contents of the spitoon
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In reply to Duncan Bourne:
Not really with the tech grade, which is what I was discussing.
> Sorry but arguing about a grade from the point of view of seconding is like judging wine from the contents of the spitoon
Not really with the tech grade, which is what I was discussing.
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In reply to TobyA:
I beg to differ. Especially on a route like CC where you have a straight line from second to belayer. The subtle assistance of a top rope has a significant impact upon the both the energy required to make a move and balance of the climber. The psychological help should not be underestimated either.
Tope roping RU may well seem harder as the rope is not a straight line but there is a slight angle which pulls at the second. CC is straight up straight down
I beg to differ. Especially on a route like CC where you have a straight line from second to belayer. The subtle assistance of a top rope has a significant impact upon the both the energy required to make a move and balance of the climber. The psychological help should not be underestimated either.
Tope roping RU may well seem harder as the rope is not a straight line but there is a slight angle which pulls at the second. CC is straight up straight down
Post edited at 10:38
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
Well, respectfully, we will have to disagree on that. I didn't get winched up either and that's just my impression based on doing the routes and comparing them to 25 year's worth of other routes. What both myself and Tony (another ex Helsinki Brit), who was leading, said about CC was it reminded us of the big routes at Olhava - Finland's best crag - where you get up to 40 metres of sustained climbing. I guess the Cromlech is a bit smaller but still you don't get pitches that are so 'enduro' in the UK so commonly. So it is a sustained pitch, its just the crux didn't seem much harder than the rest. The crucial holds are well polished though!
Different routes suit different people. I led Little Unconquerable just after seconding Tony up RU, and for me that somehow felt easier, although others have told me its harder!
> I beg to differ.
Well, respectfully, we will have to disagree on that. I didn't get winched up either and that's just my impression based on doing the routes and comparing them to 25 year's worth of other routes. What both myself and Tony (another ex Helsinki Brit), who was leading, said about CC was it reminded us of the big routes at Olhava - Finland's best crag - where you get up to 40 metres of sustained climbing. I guess the Cromlech is a bit smaller but still you don't get pitches that are so 'enduro' in the UK so commonly. So it is a sustained pitch, its just the crux didn't seem much harder than the rest. The crucial holds are well polished though!
Different routes suit different people. I led Little Unconquerable just after seconding Tony up RU, and for me that somehow felt easier, although others have told me its harder!
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
BTW, does your partner keep you very tight when you are seconding? I like that feeling of being kept tight when you are doing hard starting moves and are worried about your ankles but after that I don't want to feel the rope pulling unless I'm really scared! Obviously on mega pitches in the mountains when you can hardly hear each other having the rope snug seconding is nice as you know what the belayer is doing up above, but when you are 10 metres apart on Stanage you can communicate more easily.
BTW, does your partner keep you very tight when you are seconding? I like that feeling of being kept tight when you are doing hard starting moves and are worried about your ankles but after that I don't want to feel the rope pulling unless I'm really scared! Obviously on mega pitches in the mountains when you can hardly hear each other having the rope snug seconding is nice as you know what the belayer is doing up above, but when you are 10 metres apart on Stanage you can communicate more easily.
In reply to TobyA:
It isn't a question of being winched. It is that the presence of the rope subtly alters the way you climb. I have done it myself. Routes I have top-roped prior to leading have felt very different to the same route whilst on the sharpend.
Certainly different routes suit different people. I found CC easier than RU for the most part except for the crux where I took a flier. Also took a flier on Left Unconquerable at the crux. I later seconded a friend on it and found it completly different
It isn't a question of being winched. It is that the presence of the rope subtly alters the way you climb. I have done it myself. Routes I have top-roped prior to leading have felt very different to the same route whilst on the sharpend.
Certainly different routes suit different people. I found CC easier than RU for the most part except for the crux where I took a flier. Also took a flier on Left Unconquerable at the crux. I later seconded a friend on it and found it completly different
In reply to TobyA:
I have certainly called for a "tight rope!" in my time. Though except in extremis I don't like to feel the pull of the rope as it can be a bit off putting.
Speaking of mountain routes I remember one very hairy pitch on Pizzo Monaco when the rope caught on the overhangs and developed enormous rope drag. I was hauling for all I was worth and my partner had coils of rope over her arm till she could reach the point where it was trapped.
I have certainly called for a "tight rope!" in my time. Though except in extremis I don't like to feel the pull of the rope as it can be a bit off putting.
Speaking of mountain routes I remember one very hairy pitch on Pizzo Monaco when the rope caught on the overhangs and developed enormous rope drag. I was hauling for all I was worth and my partner had coils of rope over her arm till she could reach the point where it was trapped.
In reply to ipfreely:
I'm slightly amazed that no one has mentioned that you can just step neatly left at the top and avoid the famous grovel. I did the grovel first time round but never subsequently, and if anyone thinks that's off route well it's not a climbing wall is it
I'm slightly amazed that no one has mentioned that you can just step neatly left at the top and avoid the famous grovel. I did the grovel first time round but never subsequently, and if anyone thinks that's off route well it's not a climbing wall is it
In reply to Pedro50:
Check out my logbook comment. The mantle does seem like a silly eliminate given a couple of steps to the left and you can walk off, but maybe that's only partly an excuse for not doing it.
> I'm slightly amazed that no one has mentioned that you can just step neatly left at the top and avoid the famous grovel. I did the grovel first time round but never subsequently, and if anyone thinks that's off route well it's not a climbing wall is it
Check out my logbook comment. The mantle does seem like a silly eliminate given a couple of steps to the left and you can walk off, but maybe that's only partly an excuse for not doing it.
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Not sure how to find your logbook comment, but it looks like you agree. Best we keep quiet and let everyone undertake the initiation.
Not sure how to find your logbook comment, but it looks like you agree. Best we keep quiet and let everyone undertake the initiation.
In reply to Pedro50:
Hey Pedro, why don't you come on over to my Grit thread and tell everyone how you go around tricky moves and then slur people who find the tricky bits tough.
Hey Pedro, why don't you come on over to my Grit thread and tell everyone how you go around tricky moves and then slur people who find the tricky bits tough.
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In reply to Pedro50:
I do apparently...
"Did the proper finish by moving left. Apparently a stupid eliminate exists where you go up direct by way of a belly-flop. Not sure why anybody would want to do this."
> Not sure how to find your logbook comment, but it looks like you agree.
I do apparently...
"Did the proper finish by moving left. Apparently a stupid eliminate exists where you go up direct by way of a belly-flop. Not sure why anybody would want to do this."
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In reply to zimpara:
If it's a "proper" route, straying off line would make it harder.
> So have you stayed on route for any of your climbs?
If it's a "proper" route, straying off line would make it harder.
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In reply to stp:
Yeah true but again it's subjective relative to the extent it's performed and other variables; the point I've been attempting to get across to people recently.
Yeah true but again it's subjective relative to the extent it's performed and other variables; the point I've been attempting to get across to people recently.
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
I had a scary seconding of the overhanging top pitch of The Grooves on Cyrn Las. I was not doing well and gripped and rushing up the pitch - my leader meanwhile must've been daydreaming and completely failed to take in any rope once I set off, meaning I was climbing with massive loops of rope over me and hanging well below me. He couldn't hear my gibbering and fevered shouts. What a gripper [scarred for life - thanks Bernie!*]
*Bernie shall remain anonymous no hard feelings Bernie no offence Bernie I enjoyed your company Bernie anyway...
> I have certainly called for a "tight rope!" in my time... I remember one very hairy pitch on Pizzo Monaco when the rope caught on the overhangs and developed enormous rope drag...
I had a scary seconding of the overhanging top pitch of The Grooves on Cyrn Las. I was not doing well and gripped and rushing up the pitch - my leader meanwhile must've been daydreaming and completely failed to take in any rope once I set off, meaning I was climbing with massive loops of rope over me and hanging well below me. He couldn't hear my gibbering and fevered shouts. What a gripper [scarred for life - thanks Bernie!*]
*Bernie shall remain anonymous no hard feelings Bernie no offence Bernie I enjoyed your company Bernie anyway...
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